Design Model - O's - Feedback and Suggestions

[flyboy2160]

rodney, i'm glad you see the short front overhang as a crucual element in the design. a long nose would make it look like just another plebian "supercar":p instead of your unique shape.

would you please repost the rendering of the red car with the rear wing, no front splitter, and the all black roof area? the taller hood and short blunt nose may just work better in the overall theme and i'd like to see the comparison.

thanks

[shinn497]

Isn't plebian supercar an oxymoron?

[dclin]

Hmmm. I haven't looked in on this for quite a while. After seeing the latest I won't say that I don't like it but do have to ask---when did it become an Elise?

Carry on,
Jeff

LOL, when F5 specified the 818 to be a mid engined sports car, roughly the size of the Elise? :D

http://lethistorylive.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Lotus-Elise-S-44.jpg

http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/RO%20Project%20818%20Wallpaper.jpg

This comparison really puts into perspective how good looking Rodney's design is, IMHO.

[flyboy2160]

Isn't plebian supercar an oxymoron?

:D i was being sarcastic. there are many of them now and their "long" noses all look alike: f430, gallardo, evora, ford gt40, latest gen porshes, blah blah blah. seen one, seen them all. although i understand that these long noses may be for aero reasons, i still don't like them.

i like rodney's latest renderings more than those and more than the current elise/exige. the 'new' ~2015 elise may give rodney's car a styling run for it's money.

[flyboy2160]

70187017

i tried to match one of these elise views with rodney's latest views. i'll take rodney's latest with the blunter nose over the new elise. i think the elise nose with the downturned catfish/grouper mouth is horrible, like one of the 818 designs. the elise rear deck and valences are overwrought compared to rodney's clean lines. so, i'll also take rodney's beautiful design over the 'new' elise.

(i apologize for not being able to figure out how to post the pics real size.)

:p so, rodney, now you are not only in competition with the other 818 designs, but also with supercars and loti!:p

[VTX]

Hmmm. I haven't looked in on this for quite a while. After seeing the latest I won't say that I don't like it but do have to ask---when did it become an Elise?

Carry on,
Jeff

Elise? Doesn't look anything like an Elise to me. Looks pretty original.

Although I have to say I'm not as big of a fan of it now that it's in 3D.

[slopoke]

I like the dropped cowl ... and how about a splitter to go with that?

[Oppenheimer]

Not a fan of the dropped hood. Also not seeing how it affects the cuteness factor. If anything, the Rodney hood looks brawnier to me.

I do see a resemblence between Rodney and Elise. Don't get me wrong, I think the Rodney is very unique. But they share a similar basic outline, its all the details that are totally different.

I guess, its kinda like looking at cars from, say the 40's. They all look alike if you are not one that knows the details. A car guy can take one glance and tell the difference between a Ford and Chevy, but the average non-car person its all the same. In 50 years, when cars look totally different, the Rodney next to an Elise will look surprisingly similar. Its that 'similarity' I see.

[prematureapex]

Am I the only one getting a Veyron Jr. vibe from it now?

[skullandbones]

OMG. Please don't make the nose look like the gold thing in #503. I like the beefy look of the front of your latest rendering. Could it be just a tad longer as suggested before without becoming too much like the generic "supercar" look? It seems that at this point, very small changes have a huge effect on the responses. That is probably a good thing. Many of your offerings would be acceptable as a finished product in my opinion (some have actually said so). Thanks for all your work! WEK.

[Silvertop]

.........I do see a resemblence between Rodney and Elise. Don't get me wrong, I think the Rodney is very unique. But they share a similar basic outline, its all the details that are totally different.

I guess, its kinda like looking at cars from, say the 40's. They all look alike if you are not one that knows the details. A car guy can take one glance and tell the difference between a Ford and Chevy, but the average non-car person its all the same. In 50 years, when cars look totally different, the Rodney next to an Elise will look surprisingly similar. Its that 'similarity' I see.

Your observation is spot-on.

Cars from the same era, particularly if they are designed for the same market niche, and for the same function, are going to look similar.

Some months back, one forum observer also scolded the Xabier design for looking too much like a Lotus Elise or Exige. And he was right -- it does have some strong similarities, though it could also be said to have similarities with certain other marques, including certain Porsche, Ferrari, and Aston-Martin models (not to mention a host of other English sports cars).

So both cars could be said to resemble the Lotus. Curiously, though, there are not many observers who would suggest that the Xabier looks like the Rodney. Because the two cars really don't look like each other, even though they share a certain commonality of shape.

But they are not the same. And they are not the same as the Lotus, either. Both are significantly better looking, IMHO.

[Oppenheimer]

Cars from the same era, particularly if they are designed for the same market niche, and for the same function, are going to look similar.


When I see two modern cars targeted to same niche pull up at a light, I try to think how they will be seen by a different generation, how similar they will look. You look at certain details like the shape of the C pillar, or how the taillights meld with the trunk lid, and you can sort of put yourself in that place where you can see how the two cars will look indistinguishable.

[Silvertop]

When I see two modern cars targeted to same niche pull up at a light, I try to think how they will be seen by a different generation, how similar they will look. You look at certain details like the shape of the C pillar, or how the taillights meld with the trunk lid, and you can sort of put yourself in that place where you can see how the two cars will look indistinguishable.

I am easily old enough to have experienced precisely the phenomenon you are describing. I don't have to put myself there. I WAS there!

[mattster03]

Love it Rodney! Could you update us on what your envolvement is/has been with Dave? Is he working closely with you on the design?

[Draco-REX]

Love the new renders. With a car that small, you can't avoid "cute." The car may be smaller than it's big brothers, but the human occupants are the same size. That's going to make for more of a "cuteness factor" due to the larger (proportionately) greenhouse.

[D2W]

Love it Rodney! Could you update us on what your envolvement is/has been with Dave? Is he working closely with you on the design?

I too am interested in the collaboration between you and FFR.

[RodneyO]

Thanks everyone for all the kind words and the feedback, this feedback is invaluable and since I'm really close to the design is good to hear how others see it from their perspective. Like others have commented this design is now getting to details that are starting to create big impacts, its sort of a fun and challenging balance.

Here are some answers to some questions posted:


Great rendering. Just one question: in previous renderings the roof looked like a separate and removable panel that could come off to make it a roadster. This one looks like the roof panel and windshield are one piece. So...is the idea to have a removable or fixed roof?
It is a removable Targa still, but I'm glad it looks like one piece that way a potential coupe version could also exist.


I think 18" wheels would help a little - the newest renders are 17", whereas the original orange rendering was probably closer to 18", if I have my timeline right.
This is correct when I did the sketch I did it over 18" rims, going to 17" has made the fenders drop lower, so I've been going back and forth with the sketch and 3d as I much as I can, still tuning it a bit so hopefully it will start getting closer to concept sketch.


That is one of the few Edits I've liked.
comment though rodney, I think a lot of people keep asking for a dropped hood on every revision. Is there a structural/aesthetic reason to keep the hood high.
I think there is still room for adjustment, I have adjusted it slightly based on earlier comments, but I'm trying not to cross to the Elise dip because that will make it look even closer to an Elise, and it sounds fun but in my opinion that's is one of the things that makes the Elise hood kind of ugly. Aesthetically the angle that you are looking at it from ( the front) may seem strange but when you look at it from different angles, it feels right. But I'm still gonna mess with it a bit more.


Hmmm. I haven't looked in on this for quite a while. After seeing the latest I won't say that I don't like it but do have to ask---when did it become an Elise?
Carry on,
Jeff
I do see the resemblance, I have been thinking about somethings that I could change to make the identity unique. I didn't realize how close the design of the headlights that I was doing was compared to the new 2011 Elise, I had never seen the 2011 headlights til this comment. So I will do some adjustments to the shape of the headlights to give it its own identity and adjust the hood a tad as well. The rest of the resemblance could be that we share similar features, I will closely analyze this again. I think once you guys see the 3d viewer somethings will get more comfortable I hope.

About the nose;
I am an RX-7 hardcore fan, and after owning that I became a fan of short noses, my brother's EVO had a shorter nose and his current M3 is that way as well. We always talk about the design styles and its really a matter of taste, but from a practicality is something that is nice to not worry about. Is going to be a bit hard for me to switch to a long nose, because aesthetically and practically I prefer shorter noses. I think that in everyday driving you will run into dips and areas that are just annoying to encounter. Hopefully once you guys see the 3d viewer you will see that is not as short as it seems. Please don't feel that I won't adjust it, I'm just trying to strike the right balance.



I will be posting a 3d viewer update this weekend for sure. I feel that the model is ready enough to view.


Love it Rodney! Could you update us on what your involvement is/has been with Dave? Is he working closely with you on the design?
I haven't spoken to Dave or FFR since the beginning of the month, the original conversation was to see if I can get them a 3d file that they can use to get a 3d print of the new adjustments. Feedback has been mainly been happening here in the forums, and that is actually kind of nice at this stage.

I have not married the frame to the design yet, and I'm pretty sure that FFR is enjoying time with family through out the holidays and this will most likely happen at the beginning of the year. But I have a feeling that the beginning of the year will bring up lots of work and updates. My goal this month has been to see if I can get a 3d file print ready version that I and the community feel pretty happy about, which then I can provide to FFR. Not everyone will be happy about wha will get submitted but that is the nature of Art.

Again thanks for the feedback and nice comments, I will do one more pass soon, and give you a 3d Viewer.

cheers and Happy New Year!!!

[Oppenheimer]

OK, we are down to the little things now with this design. Here are my 'little things' thoughts; I like this version of the rocker vent (at least from this angle). I like the headlights, don't care if they resemble previous Elise. I like the fuel filler. The bodies organic flowing curves and subtle creases have really grown on me. I like the hood, but this angle the vent kinda looks like a drooping tongue. Maybe a 'power-bulge' detail to the tongue part would help? I think the black area of the grill could still use some detailing. I like how its matte, I like the mouth opening, I like how its slightly recessed, & like the subtle splitter, its just the up-ticks that don't seem perfect. Something about those indented shapes there. Maybe if those were driving lights or something?

I like it better without the spoiler. Easy enough to make that optional, but would be nice if upcoming 3d render showed both. I'm sure many will prefer it with. I wish the mirrors looked cooler. Don't have to be crazy stilletto looking things, just something with a bit more funk to match the rest of the design (we're really getting down to little things now).

I would like to see what the latest version would look like with a body colored roof.

[Xusia]

I continue to be impressed by the way you listen and accept feedback. That's not to say you use every bit of it (nor should anyone expect that), but the fact that you listen - with a truly open mind, and without getting defensive - is an outstanding quality that I feel compelled to complement you on! :)

Keep up the good work!

Oh, and are there instructions on how to get the 3d viewer thing?

[Xusia]

I like this version of the rocker vent (at least from this angle). I like the headlights, don't care if they resemble previous Elise. I like the fuel filler.

Totally agree.


I think the black area of the grill could still use some detailing. I like how its matte, I like the mouth opening, I like how its slightly recessed, & like the subtle splitter, its just the up-ticks that don't seem perfect. Something about those indented shapes there.

Again, I agree. I'm not sure what it needs, but something. Sorry I'm not more helpful!


I wish the mirrors looked cooler.

I like the look of the mirrors, but I fear they are too small to actually be useful. Useless mirrors are less of an issue on motorcycles (though still annoying) because you can just turn your head. On a design like this, where the c pillar is seemingly blocking a huge portion of your view, you don't have the option to look around as much.

[BrandonDrums]

Rodney, you always impress with your talent and openness. Thanks for the update!

Call me out of the loop, but I recall Dave saying at one point that they were able to find a new location for the fuel tank instead of having it under the seats as originally planned. Seeing that you have the fuel filler cap and tube behind the driver up top, does this mean the tank will still be under the seat?

The front is pretty much spot-on for me but the rear is too high and seems to make the rear wheels look smaller and more inset than the fronts. If the line doesn't go quite as far above the wheel arch and stays wider in the rear I think it could fix that. Most modern mid-engine supercars do a good job of accenting the width of the rear end by keeping the line low over the wheel arches leading to tail-lights that are mounted at nearly the widest part of the car or at least in-line with the rear tires.

The rear will still need to be highish to visually balance out the tall and curved roof-line but if the line was lower over the rear wheels leading to a wider "dip" with tail-lights that were mounted further apart then I think it would make the rear look more agressive. The overall design is perfect really but the headlights are low and the lines are too high and too narrow compared to the front.

A good way to think of it is, most of these super agressive designs try to make it look like they had to push out the lines of the car really wide to make room for the engine and the wheels. When you taper in, visually it's kind saying "there's not much we have to house in here so we might as well bring it all in". At least to me it's like that.

Here are some examples of rear-ends of mid-engined cars that have the main line stay low and wide around the back wheels and keeping the tail lights in line with the rear tires. I put in a rear shot of the "O" for comparison.

http://213.239.205.196/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=9983&g2_serialNumber=2

http://www.inotocar.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/2012-Pagani-Huayra-Rear-Angle-2-600x433.jpg

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2011/02/lamborghini-aventador-lp700-4---08-opt.jpg

http://topnewcarpictures.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/2012-Koenigsegg-Agera-R-Rear-Angle-View.jpg

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs264.snc1/9132_158897158101_778298101_3714527_7785362_n.jpg

http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-2008/def/2008-Edo-Competition-Porsche-Carrera-GT-Rear-Angle-1024x768.jpg

http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/v3_side.jpg

[RodneyO]

Mirrors are not final, sorry last area of work, I'm going to split them half plastic half paint, and in those renders the grill texture in all the vents didn't show through. The honeycomb texture fills the void of detail or so it seems.

[BrandonDrums]

Actually, now that I think about it, the front headlights could also move out a couple of inches and the main line over the front arches wouldn't curve inwards a bit. There have been a few comments about the detail on the hood being too high but perhaps it's just too close to the front arches. Widen the front headlights out so the overall 'curve' of the main line around the front edge isn't such a sharp radius, leave everything else the same and I think it will help the car look lower and more aggressive.

Also, if the main line didn't cut so low along the sides, it would also help minimize the appearance of the roofline being too high and too 'bubbled' for the car. Earlier rederings didn't have that problem but for some reason the last 2 posts really stand out in that the roof line is just way tall compared to the rest of the car.

[Tpa65cpe]

WOW!! Spot on Rodney. Dont mess with a good thing and get a camel!! This is where you really seem to shine is in the way you adjust to the feedback both neg and pos! The latest looks "KILLER HOF" and still yours so take all this with a grain of salt! P.S. I totally agree with you about the overhang (short is better) in a real world environment plus it gives a totally different look. Fantastic rendering and good looks overall, keep it up!!!

[Draco-REX]

RE: The wing.

1. I like the wing.

2. I don't like how it would look without something back there.

3. I think a spoiler might look better.

I am a HUGE fan of having options. It would be great to have all three be a possibility in the render, and even better for all three to be options at time of purchase.

[Flamshackle]

Again thanks for the feedback and nice comments, I will do one more pass soon, and give you a 3d Viewer.
cheers and Happy New Year!!!

Woohoo! cant wait!

[305mouse]

Keep a wing/spoiler, just dont make it look like the spoiler on the Elise/Exige.

[Flamshackle]

I think dropping the hood height and inch or two would help 'sharpen' the nose and lessen the cuteness:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6997&d=1324779243

6997

This is a nice addition and only one of a few that I really like the look of that Rodney himself hasn't done :D

If you are up for it Rodney O then playing with the bonnet would be fun to see? I think it wouldn't hurt to be 'a little' lower.

[Draco-REX]

This is a nice addition and only one of a few that I really like the look of that Rodney himself hasn't done :D

If you are up for it Rodney O then playing with the bonnet would be fun to see? I think it wouldn't hurt to be 'a little' lower.

I just don't like that edit because the now HUGE windshield makes it look like a Saab. :P

[Idesign]

#tryingtoohard

[Draco-REX]

#tryingtoohard
:confused:

[Silvertop]

One caveat concerning dropping the hood for a steeper angle --- It will mean less storage room underneath it, and there will be precious little storage space on the 818 at best. One will want (at least) to have room under there to stow that Targa Top, with room left over for a toothbrush and a shaving kit.

[305mouse]

Also on this latest revision, I see there are no vents into the rear engine bay like you were trying out before. Any plan to make sure the TMIC gets enough air to keep it cool?

[Oppenheimer]

Call me out of the loop, but I recall Dave saying at one point that they were able to find a new location for the fuel tank instead of having it under the seats as originally planned. Seeing that you have the fuel filler cap and tube behind the driver up top, does this mean the tank will still be under the seat?

You are out of the loop :) Dave has said the tank has been moved to behind the seats, like the '33 Coupe. Rodney's fuel filler location still makes sense (and looks cool too).

[prematureapex]

Are the headlights/tailights sourced from anywhere?


While I like the design...I'm questioning how one could produce a production iteration which does it justice for the budget F5 is working under.

Seems too complex, with too many pieces to be workable. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[mattster03]

Judging by all the GTM, the headlights buckets and lenses will most likely be designed specifically for the 818.


Are the headlights/tailights sourced from anywhere?


While I like the design...I'm questioning how one could produce a production iteration which does it justice for the budget F5 is working under.

Seems too complex, with too many pieces to be workable. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[Xusia]

If true to Rodney's design, they would have to be. I think the question was, however, whether or not that's "in the budget" given the build cost goal of less than $15k...

[mattster03]

If true to Rodney's design, they would have to be. I think the question was, however, whether or not that's "in the budget" given the build cost goal of less than $15k...

I agree. Though I have mentioned before that if it is true that this car will be a "one donor" vehicle, one might conclude that it would have to be a custom headlamp as a wide range of Subaru vehicles (with different headlamps) to be used has already been promised.

[Oppenheimer]

FFR takes the 'single donor' concept very seriously. Since the range of donor vehicles have so many different head/tail light variations, I don't see any option other than GTM style custom lights. Someone else posted a while back how this might not be as costly as it sounds. FFR should have a good handle on this with their expereince with GTM.

The only option I would see for a light assmebly sourced from another vehicle (other than builders donor) would be if FFR bought them new in bulk and included as part of kit. The same I would think would be true for stuff like the windshield. It only helps if such components can be repurposed from another vehicle (other than builders donor) if they are something FFR can buy in bulk at a cost low enough to include in kit. Otherwise it violates the 'single donor' concept, which seems important to FFR.

[MuddyRoverRob]

One caveat concerning dropping the hood for a steeper angle --- It will mean less storage room underneath it, and there will be precious little storage space on the 818 at best. One will want (at least) to have room under there to stow that Targa Top, with room left over for a toothbrush and a shaving kit.

This is turning into a "toy" I could truly be happy with!
It's a tiny car, so cute is almost inevitable... (but it'll be cute and FAST! I can live with that!)

Silvertop has it right, if there isn't a little room for the bosses weekend bag then MANY of these will not be built!
SWMBO (She Who Must Be Obeyed) must be kept happy!

[Xusia]

Ahhhhh... The mark of a married man! LOL



(I'm married too...)

[RM1SepEx]

If mama isn't happy, no one is happy
28 years in January...

[Flamshackle]

Hahaha! 11 years and loving it. I live by the Moto "happy wife, happy life"

[MuddyRoverRob]

25 years here, AND she likes cars!
but being the practical one she demands that even a toy has at least some utility!

It's annoying when she is right... ;-)

[RonSchofield]

I think that rather than a longer overhang, I think dropping the hood height and inch or two would help 'sharpen' the nose and lessen the cuteness:

Most states and provinces require a bumper at certain height. Dropping the nose would reduce the ability for sales in those locals.

Ron

[Oppenheimer]

I think people are talking about lowering the just the hood, the bumper, headlights, etc, would stay the same height. There was even a rendering of an example of what lowered hood would look like. Personally I prefer the unaltered hood height. The concern is the car doesn't look brawny enough from certain angles (due in large part to its diminutive (as compared to modern sportscars) size). Too me the unaltered hood looks beefier.

[Xusia]

It's annoying when she is right... ;-)

It always is!


Most states and provinces require a bumper at certain height. Dropping the nose would reduce the ability for sales in those locals.

Many of those sorts of rules only apply to production vehicles. Meaning, you could legally modify the ride height (i.e. trucks with lift kits) after purchase, or be exempt if you are building it yourself.

[RonSchofield]

It always is!



Many of those sorts of rules only apply to production vehicles. Meaning, you could legally modify the ride height (i.e. trucks with lift kits) after purchase, or be exempt if you are building it yourself.

Wrong. These regulations apply at registration time. An example is that NY state requires bumpers at a set height. Here in my province, you need an engineer to certify the car and it must pass inspection every two years. Lift kits on trucks would not get you an inspection sticker. Designing something that cannot be sold or registered in some states would limit both the sales by Factory Five and reselling by owners.

Ron

[Xusia]

Ron, the first word of my sentence was "many." Notice I did not say "all." I never intended the statement to mean that was true everywhere.

That said, you have a point. If such requirements exist in various places, FFR would probably want to ensure the car met standardized automobile requirements. I didn't think of it from that perspective. :)

[RodneyO]

http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/venom2/v2.jpg (http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/venom2)
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/venom2/

You can also download a standalone version, just remember to hit alt+F4 to close the app or alt+Enter to toggle full screen mode.
Here is the zip file
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/venom2/venom2.zip

[sonicrex]

Thank. :cool:

[Hiryu]

Very cool! Looks really good.

[balddog818]

thakns, i love the changes you've made, it looks great!

[thestigwins]

I will 100% buy this car if it comes out looking like this.

;)

Great work!

[bromikl]

I will 100% buy this car if it comes out looking like this.

;)

Great work!

+1

Thank you Rodney!!

I have the feeling the 818 targa will look a lot like this. I predict this 3D viewer will be linked to and played with for months or years to come. Would it be possible to add a (removable) 6ft tall driver standing next to the car? And could you make the rear spoiler removable? (I really like it, but some people will want to see it without.)

Professional level work by any measure. Looking forward to building one (or two :D ) of these.

[Draco-REX]

Love the viewer. I want this car.

The only problem I'm having with the viewer is that now I can't decide what color to paint it. ;)

Oh and it doesn't work right on my netbook at work. :P

[Psay]

Absolutely awesome Rodney.

I have spent the past few hours spinning it in every direction possible, changing colours, roof off/on etc. I like the way you have different colour and style of wheels on each side.

This has raised my interest to a different level and just hope it gets built and still looks like this or better (if possible).

[GUNS]

Love it Rodney. FFR please build this!

[Ramarryo]

Rodney, my congratulations!

Really amazing. I love the way your design has evolved not loosing an inch of the original spirit.

[DrieStone]

http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/venom2/v2.jpg (http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/venom2)
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/venom2/

You can also download a standalone version, just remember to hit alt+F4 to close the app or alt+Enter to toggle full screen mode.
Here is the zip file
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/venom2/venom2.zip

Looks good, although the Unity web player really sucks on the Mac (like 2FPS). I don't suppose there's any chance for a Mac version of the stand-alone?

[GUNS]

^Works fine on my macbook pro

[scartaan]

Outstanding work Rodney! Ready for production! One request- could you please post the basic specs- height, length, and width?
Thanks-

[projectrally]

Looks great. I would definitley buy this car if it was available. But I too wish this worked better on a Mac. My brand new i7 Macbook Air plays the 3d version poorly. Any chance you can export the file to play in something like Blender for the Mac nerds out there?

[GunnerG]

I can't get the functions to work on my Dell Studio One. All I see is a greyed out two tone spinning model with no menu. Any thoughts on a solution? other than a more powerful computer.
Thanks in advance

[Draco-REX]

It's tough to get the click-on-the-car thing to work. Just keep clicking up and down the center line.

[DrieStone]

I know I complained about the Web player, but I do have to say that I'm less fearful after seeing (what I could) in 3d. Something about the angle you used earlier seemed to highlight the curve of the roof which I don't love. A few degrees off and it's not quite as pronounced. I really do love this design and I'm crossing my fingers that the final 818 looks close to this!

[dclin]

Outstanding work Rodney! Ready for production! One request- could you please post the basic specs- height, length, and width?
Thanks-

From post #305, I think it's still current for the most part. Almost identical to an Elise in every outer dimension, other than being a few inches taller (thanks to Wookie-compatibility requirements, no doubt :D ):


Haven't had much time to work on this. Here are some updates, things are moving along.

Things fixed so far:

This are correct scale 17" rims
215/40/17 Front
255/40/17 Rear
(I'm using this model for those individuals that want to fit a bigger tire. Here is a little tool that can help you figure out sizes on inches and such.
http://www.rimsntires.com/specs.jsp

Width of the Car is 68"
Length is 151"
Height at its highest point is 47"
Height on the furthest back area is 30"
and it curves up to 36" on the rear side bumpers
Door Length at its longest its 52"
Door Height at its lowest is 27"
Door Height at its Highest is 31.5"
Front Bumper lowest point on the Hood area is 17"
Nose Length from the Fender Hole is 14"
Size of large round taillights on the back is 5" (red area) 7" Housing (Black area)
Size of small round taillights on the back is 3.75" (red area) 5" Housing (Black area) 2.2" (Backup Lights)

Now here is the kicker'
Cabin width from where the window sits at is 51.5" Wide , now just for comparison I have a little mazda mx-3 which is surprisingly similar in some areas. the Width from window to window is 57" so If you get a chance to get inside an MX-3 that will give you an idea of what you are sitting inside of. There is room to make the cabin wider and I don't feel that It would affect the design very much. Any one know how wide Miatas are inside the cabin?

I'll post pics on the next post.

[dclin]

One caveat concerning dropping the hood for a steeper angle --- It will mean less storage room underneath it, and there will be precious little storage space on the 818 at best. One will want (at least) to have room under there to stow that Targa Top, with room left over for a toothbrush and a shaving kit.

To be honest, I don't think there's enough room for the targa either way - it looks pretty big. If this is the case, a couple ways around this perhaps:

1) targa that splits (like T-Tops) or folds in half - not my favorite idea, but it could work if engineered properly
2) a 'soft targa' (fabric targa, built around a folding frame) that stores under the 'hood', and an optional 'hard targa' that stays in the garage, used during cold/rainy season - sorta the same concept like hardtops for convertibles

[dclin]

I also add, regarding general storage issues, I hope Rodney and F5 looks hard at utilizing all the empty spaces around the car as storage bins,etc, much like McLaren did with the F1. There looks like there could be some usable space under the rear bonnet for some seal-able storage areas.

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6836/800px1996mclarenf1open.jpg

[shinn497]

I would really love to see a roadster in 3d view ( I remember there was a bodel before), but this is looking gorgeous.

I love it in orange or deep blue.

[Draco-REX]

I would really love to see a roadster in 3d view ( I remember there was a bodel before), but this is looking gorgeous.

I love it in orange or deep blue.
The top is removable in the viewer. Just click on it until you get it to come off.

[Oppenheimer]

To be honest, I don't think there's enough room for the targa either way - it looks pretty big...

2) a 'soft targa' (fabric targa, built around a folding frame) that stores under the 'hood', and an optional 'hard targa' that stays in the garage, used during cold/rainy season - sorta the same concept like hardtops for convertibles

Option 2 sounds like a winner, and is the solution I've been pitching. The only downside I can think of is if you go on a long trip, and aren't sure what weather you may encounter. You either have to go hardtop, meaning no way to drop top when its nice, or go soft, meaning you could be compromising weather protection or wind noise.

Other than that, option 2 gives the choice to buy just the soft top, buy just the hardtop, or buy both. Lots of flexibility to meet builders needs. You can go roofless and carry the easily stowable soft top, without compromising cargo space, without fear of a sudden shower or cold snap.

[DrieStone]

^Works fine on my macbook pro

Not on mine (Core 2 Duo w/ NVIDIA 9400M, last year's 13" MacBook Pro), but the MacPro at work (2xQuad-Core Xeon w/ ATI Radeon 5770) runs it like a champ.

Car really does look great, especially with the top off (most things look better that way).

[Steve91T]

Not on mine (Core 2 Duo w/ NVIDIA 9400M, last year's 13" MacBook Pro), but the MacPro at work (2xQuad-Core Xeon w/ ATI Radeon 5770) runs it like a champ.

Car really does look great, especially with the top off (most things look better that way).

I'm on an older MacBook, and it doesn't work at all.

[Movieman]

Not on mine (Core 2 Duo w/ NVIDIA 9400M, last year's 13" MacBook Pro), but the MacPro at work (2xQuad-Core Xeon w/ ATI Radeon 5770) runs it like a champ.

Car really does look great, especially with the top off (most things look better that way).

HMM, wonder how it will work on my SR2 with the 2-X5690's at 4200, vid is ATI 5870
Sorry guys for the OT, even us old farts like to brag once in a while!:D

[Draco-REX]

Option 2 sounds like a winner, and is the solution I've been pitching. The only downside I can think of is if you go on a long trip, and aren't sure what weather you may encounter. You either have to go hardtop, meaning no way to drop top when its nice, or go soft, meaning you could be compromising weather protection or wind noise.

Other than that, option 2 gives the choice to buy just the soft top, buy just the hardtop, or buy both. Lots of flexibility to meet builders needs. You can go roofless and carry the easily stowable soft top, without compromising cargo space, without fear of a sudden shower or cold snap.

It might also be possible to fab up a couple brackets to mount the hard top to the rear decklid like the Lambo Diablo Roadster. Not the prettiest design, but good in a pinch for long trips.

[mekeys]

All i got was a rotating black silhouette..

Mel

[Oppenheimer]

All i got was a rotating black silhouette..

Mel

Me too, on the first PC I tried (an old laptop). Then I tried it on my 'new' work laptop, and its better, but still not good. It appears as a grey, poorly rendered version of the car. It just doesn't show up clean or sharp at all. I also cannot get the 'edit' funciton to work no matter how many times I try clicking on the car.

Is there a set of 'minimum' PC specs we should have to view this decently?

[Draco-REX]

The clicking on the car thing is a pita that seems to depend on location and timing. I hope there's some other way to trigger the viewer.

The black car I think is due to a sub-par video card. My tiny netbook gets that, but my good laptop and gaming computer render it just fine.

[dclin]

Rodney, couple requests, if you have the time:

1) Can you put 18" wheels back on one side (preferably the gunmetal/black wheels), ala the original Napalm Orange rendering?

2) Can you render a subtle, duck-tail spoiler - one that doesn't extend the full width of the car? An extra option would be nice. :)

Thanks!

[dclin]

The clicking on the car thing is a pita that seems to depend on location and timing. I hope there's some other way to trigger the viewer.

The black car I think is due to a sub-par video card. My tiny netbook gets that, but my good laptop and gaming computer render it just fine.

The only thing that seems to happen for me when clicking on the car is is the top comes off. Clicking on the spot where the rear view mirror would be on the windshield works fabulously for me - the top comes flying right off. Wish it was that easy in real life. :)

[jimgood]

The only thing that seems to happen for me when clicking on the car is is the top comes off. Clicking on the spot where the rear view mirror would be on the windshield works fabulously for me - the top comes flying right off. Wish it was that easy in real life. :)
LOL -- I just pictured a situation in which one is driving down the freeway and adjusting the review mirror and...OOPS!

[bromikl]

Re: computing power:

Running the 3D viewer is the only time I've heard my laptop's fan speed up. :P

[unclebigbad]

http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/venom2/v2.jpg (http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/venom2)
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/venom2/

You can also download a standalone version, just remember to hit alt+F4 to close the app or alt+Enter to toggle full screen mode.
Here is the zip file
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/venom2/venom2.zip

This is ridiculously bad ***! This car would be in my garage, and terrorizing the local tracks as soon as it becomes available! I can't wait to tell my friends about this one!

[Admiral Doom]

I have to admit, when I first saw Rodney's design in the competition, I couldn't stand it. I couldn't understand why it won 2nd place. This new design, to be cliche, has set my hair on fire. I would absolutely love to build an 818 with this body. It definitely embodies the 818 concept...it looks sexy, fast, and actually looks small and nimble. Other designs like the in-house design look larger than it should...this actually LOOKS like a nimble sports car. I also love the new exhaust design, I didn't like the boxy exhaust from the first model. I'm a huge fan and keep up the good work!

[thane]

I have to admit, when I first saw Rodney's design in the competition, I couldn't stand it. I couldn't understand why it won 2nd place. This new design, to be cliche, has set my hair on fire. I would absolutely love to build an 818 with this body. It definitely embodies the 818 concept...it looks sexy, fast, and actually looks small and nimble. Other designs like the in-house design look larger than it should...this actually LOOKS like a nimble sports car. I also love the new exhaust design, I didn't like the boxy exhaust from the first model. I'm a huge fan and keep up the good work!

Yeah, I'm with you. Initially I didn't hate it, but I also didn't care for it. I feel like the design is maturing very nicely.

thane

[liontail1]

Sketch # 5 is my favorite. I hope F5 decides to build this as the targa. I do agree that there needs to be some changes to the rear wing. It appears to be an add on and not designed around the car. It needs something with a more integrated look but still functional. But I can not agree more that this car makes my hair burst into flames and there is a hole burning in my pocket. I am curious though about the interior as with the original GTM there were many complaints about it appearing cheap compared to the rest of the car. I suggest maybe 2 interior options, one for the budget minded and one a little more extravagant to compliment the exterior design.

[skullandbones]

I like the "Big O" which kach22i did. It helps the frontend look somehow. Maybe it's just less of an animal expression. Something. Also, the smoother hood profile is more attractive and functional. I would like to see the headlamps a little more vertical and therefore higher in the back which would be even safer. I agree that the blunt nose is a little too short but with all the other good angles that look so good, I could live with the blunt nose as is.

There may be some truth to the statement that people need something familiar to make them feel comfortable with the design but I think FFR would be missing a great opportunity to reject this design on that basis. IMO. WEK.

[Silvertop]

....Other than that, option 2 gives the choice to buy just the soft top, buy just the hardtop, or buy both. Lots of flexibility to meet builders needs. You can go roofless and carry the easily stowable soft top, without compromising cargo space, without fear of a sudden shower or cold snap.

Yes, I could live with that too. I'd rather have a stowable hard Targa Top, but if I had to settle for buying a stowable soft top and a store at home hard top as well, it wouldn't be a deal breaker...........

[GUNS]

Yes, I could live with that too. I'd rather have a stowable hard Targa Top, but if I had to settle for buying a stowable soft top and a store at home hard top as well, it wouldn't be a deal breaker...........

That's what the Elise does and it works like a champ!

[Draco-REX]

Yes, I could live with that too. I'd rather have a stowable hard Targa Top, but if I had to settle for buying a stowable soft top and a store at home hard top as well, it wouldn't be a deal breaker...........

As long as the soft targa seals up, this is my preferred setup. It saves the designer from having to build around a stowed hard top, gives the car summer-shower capability, while also giving it a soild top for long and/or bad weather drives. Win/win/win in my book.

And to add a fouth "win" to that, it gives the buyer an option to buy the hard top or not which further reduces the cost of a base model.

[Flamshackle]

I'm on holiday with only my iPhone for another week, I can't view the new 3D that Rodney did so if someone feels up to it could they upload some screen shots of it?

I'm dying to see the different angles!

[thestigwins]

I'm on holiday with only my iPhone for another week, I can't view the new 3D that Rodney did so if someone feels up to it could they upload some screen shots of it?

I'm dying to see the different angles!

Here ya go! :p

http://i43.tinypic.com/149xec.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/1z5ssq9.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/1215rb7.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/2iafwuo.jpg

[dclin]

Funny to say, colors I normally don't like, like the green and blurple, look surprisingly good on the car. I also think the deeper vent in the hood makes more sense when you see it from a higher vantage point, rather than the shallow one on the original Napalm Orange render.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7280&d=1325912650
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7281&d=1325912652
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7282&d=1325912654

728072817282

[Draco-REX]

You should post a shot that shows the engine cover. I found that rather interesting.

[sidewinder]

http://i42.tinypic.com/2iafwuo.jpg

hope rodney doesnt mind - just had to try that out:

7286

[sidewinder]

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7282&d=1325912654


played a bit with the roof and side intake/door..



7287

[Xusia]

I like the new exhaust (a LOT!), but I wonder if there would be interference from the transmission. Something I think might actually look good is have one exhaust on either side of the protruding transmission. It's at least a way to deal with it...

[scartaan]

Design questions- airflow thru the charge cooler, room for the exhaust components, and trailer hitch. It does not appear to be enough room under the transaxel for a muffler. If the muffler is above the transaxel, an open area for the exhaust outlets could also serve as an outlet for the charge cool air. This may eliminate room for a storage area, therefore need for a trailer hitch, which could also support the muffler. Aluma makes several aluminum trailers in the 200-300# area which could be used giving added versatility to this car. This should be a negative pressure area which should help cool the engine, muffler, and charge cooler.

[bromikl]

hope rodney doesnt mind - just had to try that out:

7286

How would the radiator get any air?

[bromikl]

Design questions- airflow thru the charge cooler, room for the exhaust components, and trailer hitch. It does not appear to be enough room under the transaxel for a muffler. If the muffler is above the transaxel, an open area for the exhaust outlets could also serve as an outlet for the charge cool air. This may eliminate room for a storage area, therefore need for a trailer hitch, which could also support the muffler. Aluma makes several aluminum trailers in the 200-300# area which could be used giving added versatility to this car. This should be a negative pressure area which should help cool the engine, muffler, and charge cooler.

scartaan,


Take a deep breath.


Relax.


Let's take one idea at a time.


Complete sentences would help.


The exhaust system isn't designed yet, though it will be custom made. I have heard no rumors of adding a trailer hitch to our 1800 lbs. sports car. There will likely be *no* storage in the rear (this is not confirmed.) Airflow through the engine compartment is being modeled with SolidWorks computer software. I don't know what you mean by 'charge air,' but if it means 'the turbo intercooler,' the people who know most about turbos are convinced a spray system will prevent heat soak.


Does that answer your question?

[scartaan]

bromikl- Looking at the chassis photos, it would appear that there is little room for an exhaust system and heat shield to protect the transaxel in Rodney's latest renderings. By moving the exhaust and intercooler exit air to the area above the transaxel (above the license plate) there would be more room for an exhaust system that would not heat up the transaxel. By adding a support for the muffler that could also be used for a trailer hitch is a Chapman (Lotus) approach where each part should have more than one function. See Aluma trailers for information on their 180# trailer which is designed to be towed by a motorcycle. Although this thread is mostly for body design, it is not too early to consider these elements.
http://www.alumaklm.com/motorcycle-trailers/item/50-mct-towable-motorcycle-trailer.html

[Oppenheimer]

Wow, surprised at how much I like both of these mods:



hope rodney doesnt mind - just had to try that out:

7286




played a bit with the roof and side intake/door..



7287


Trailer: I could see someone doing track days that wants to bring more purpose oriented rubber. Since no matter how much storage there will be, it ain't gonna be enough for 4 wheels & tires, I could see some wanting to have a trailer hitch for such an occasion. Certainly not part of the base kit, but I think its worth some care to make sure adding a hitch is possible for those that want one.

[kitcarj]

I really like that change as well. (the modified front end)

7286

[Flamshackle]

Ah thanks for the fix. I feel like an addict! Every time I'm online I check this thread and being on holiday I still find a way of looking at this site.

Rodney, this car is sublime! I love the new 3D views (what I have been able to see)

Looking forward to actually building this beast!

[Psay]

played a bit with the roof and side intake/door..



7287

Sidewinder I like what you have done with the roof it looks great. The parallel arcs look great and are similar to that found on a Peugeot RCZ (looks stunning on the actual car but have yet to find a picture that portrays its real beauty).

The modifications to the door/intake also looks great, however, I equally like the original one by Rodney.

[Psay]

hope rodney doesnt mind - just had to try that out:

7286

The obvious benefit of this modification are that it provides a suitable place to put an English style number plate.

[dclin]

sidewinder, love your revisions! However, I like how the black area on the side is carried over from the front and rear. Taking that away, takes away a bit of the character for me.

Also love your detail to the grill, especially the scallops leading into the grills/ducts on each side. I did a lame attempt at something similar a few pages back - what you rendered was basically what I was looking for. If there is one thing I not completely in love with on Rodney's current design, its the black section of the front. Sorta lacks a bit of detail and depth for me. I haven't really cared to be honest though, as that it will be a separate piece, and I'll be able to fabricate something different when the kit comes out.

Having said that, I still prefer the overall shape of Rodney's current nose - but maybe with a bit more depth and detailing, like what you included.

[dclin]

Design questions- airflow thru the charge cooler, room for the exhaust components, and trailer hitch. It does not appear to be enough room under the transaxel for a muffler. If the muffler is above the transaxel, an open area for the exhaust outlets could also serve as an outlet for the charge cool air. This may eliminate room for a storage area, therefore need for a trailer hitch, which could also support the muffler. Aluma makes several aluminum trailers in the 200-300# area which could be used giving added versatility to this car. This should be a negative pressure area which should help cool the engine, muffler, and charge cooler.

The muffler(s) don't have to proceed immediately before the exhaust tips. In a few cars, the muffler is actually further back along the exhaust system. Hard to say at this point, but I think there is enough room for some exhaust tubing to wind its way into that position.

Having said that, I really don't care if the exhaust is centered, or on the far side of either side of the car.

http://image.turbomagazine.com/f/12584317/turp_0812_09_z+latest_car_products_nissan_gtr+5zig en_nissan_gtr_exhaust.jpg

[dclin]

As for the hitch, it can be made as a removable 'U' shaped frame that bolts at a more outboard part of the car frame. There would just need to be a couple access pockets in the rear 'grill' for each side of the hitch frame to insert (and therefore attach to the car frame). I can't tell what height the center mounted exhaust tips sit at, but there has to be a certain hitch height, and I'm pretty sure it's above the exhaust. Even if it was the same height, I envision the hitch to be a removable piece, easily unboltable when not trailering, and exhaust gases would, at most, just leave exhaust residue.

[sidewinder]

Here ya go! :p

http://i39.tinypic.com/1z5ssq9.jpg


work in progess - of course the details, exhausts, bumper, rear wing etc arent solved. its just a rough psd for inspiration.
the idea is to break up the bulkiness of the volume and to transfer the flow of the upper body onto the rear end...

7299

thanks for the kind words everybody. but the credits go to rodney. its his concept and these proposals just show some of the potential inside of it..

[Psay]

work in progess - of course the details, exhausts, bumper, rear wing etc arent solved. its just a rough psd for inspiration.
the idea is to break up the bulkiness of the volume and to transfer the flow of the upper body onto the rear end...

7299

thanks for the kind words everybody. but the credits go to rodney. its his concept and these proposals just show some of the potential inside of it..

That looks superb, however, from a practical point of view I believe the original round lights will be much easier to change to suit the different markets.

I am not sure what rear lighting requirements there is in the different markets but here in England we must have red tail lights, red brake lights, orange turn signals, red fog light, white reversing light and red reflectors. Not forgetting lights for the number plate. There are off the shelf LED lights that will meet these requirements and still keep the original style that Rodney has while at the same time been realistically priced.

[Oppenheimer]

[QUOTE=sidewinder;47558]work in progess - of course the details, exhausts, bumper, rear wing etc arent solved. its just a rough psd for inspiration.
the idea is to break up the bulkiness of the volume and to transfer the flow of the upper body onto the rear end...

7299

[QUOTE]

One of the few things that don't seem right with me on the Rodney is how where the rear quarter panels meet the bumper, they just sort of fall straight to the ground. Your X shape addresses that. I'm not sold 100% on this attempt (I realize it was an idea, inspiration, not an attempt at finished design mod), but I like how the rear quarters now bow into the bumper area.

The original Rodney nose had this 'fall straight to the ground' look, and when his Napalm Orange went away from that, the design took on new life. The rear looks hot now, but I think doing something like the bow in thing would help the rear even more.

[dclin]

One of the few things that don't seem right with me on the Rodney is how where the rear quarter panels meet the bumper, they just sort of fall straight to the ground. Your X shape addresses that. I'm not sold 100% on this attempt (I realize it was an idea, inspiration, not an attempt at finished design mod), but I like how the rear quarters now bow into the bumper area.

The original Rodney nose had this 'fall straight to the ground' look, and when his Napalm Orange went away from that, the design took on new life. The rear looks hot now, but I think doing something like the bow in thing would help the rear even more.

I think this is what you mean:
http://i39.tinypic.com/1z5ssq9.jpg
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7309&d=1326073909

7309

I left the license plate in the same position/plane, rather than recess it, as that I'm sure the rear of the transmission is going to extend all the way up to it.

[Oppenheimer]

I think this is what you mean:
http://i39.tinypic.com/1z5ssq9.jpg
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7309&d=1326073909

7309

I left the license plate in the same position/plane, rather than recess it, as that I'm sure the rear of the transmission is going to extend all the way up to it.

Yes, subtle, yet does address it effectively. Wondering what it would look like if the black extended all the way to that body crease at the bottom, rear of the Q-panel.

Now wishing for a more integrated spoiler or lip. Not liking how the current one looks like an 'add-on'.

[dclin]

Yes, subtle, yet does address it effectively. Wondering what it would look like if the black extended all the way to that body crease at the bottom, rear of the Q-panel.

Now wishing for a more integrated spoiler or lip. Not liking how the current one looks like an 'add-on'.

It's a toss up for me. On one hand, removing the extra 'paint' does lighten the rear end visually a bit, but then there is a lot more black panel. I could go either way, or the original rendering, and I'd be OK with it. Would like to see some sort of subtle duck tail.

http://i39.tinypic.com/1z5ssq9.jpg
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7309&d=1326073909
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7312&d=1326094432
7312

[16g-95gsx]

Wow, those edits really changed the way I feel about the rear end. I'm not a huge fan of the rear lights, but that goes a long way to taking care of the "bubble butt" that I keep seeing.

[Oppenheimer]

It's a toss up for me. On one hand, removing the extra 'paint' does lighten the rear end visually a bit, but then there is a lot more black panel. I could go either way, or the original rendering, and I'd be OK with it. Would like to see some sort of subtle duck tail.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7312&d=1326094432
7312

Wow, I like it a lot more than I thought I would. I was kinda thinking it was going to turn out bad. To my eye, from this angle at least, it seems to tie in better with the theme of the black rocker panel. It also seems to tie in with the tail light eyebrows.

[scartaan]

dclin- I like your extension of the rear "black" panel. I wonder if this panel could also do double duty extending forward as a fender liner or as ducting for air extraction for the intercooler and engine heat. I am assuming that the black panels are separate from the painted panels. These separate panels would allow some really innovative building techniques.

[flyboy2160]

i like rodney's current all-black rocker panels with the all-in the-rocker-panel-intake a lot better than the body colored alternative above that has a much taller intake that is recessed into the whole side. that black rocker panel is a distinctive trademark of the design for me- i've seen the other one lots of other places. also the current design increases the 'waisted' look of the car. it also avoids mating the intake across several pieces. if chassis the sill is high, that black rocker panel will just cover the sill with the door bottom above the sill instead of overlapping the door down below the sill - the door will be easier to build and to mate with the adjoining pieces.

at the shoulder, my mini cooper s is 55" wide at the glass with the interior of the doors 52" wide. i wouldn't want to go much narrower. so that 51.5" dimension at the glass given a few days ago might be a little tight if the door interior narrows that dimension significantly.

i really dislike the lambo imitation nose intakes. rodney's counter-curving oval mouth puts a little tension in the front end instead of it just being a melted blob all-flowing look.

[Draco-REX]

There was some question about interior space. It looks like it will be tight, but not too bad. Found the interior dimensions of the new Miatas:

Shoulder room = 53.2"
Hip room = 50.6"

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/musa2/pdf/specs/specs_MX5.pdf

[Draco-REX]

double post

[Psay]

There was some question about interior space. It looks like it will be tight, but not too bad. Found the interior dimensions of the new Miatas:

Shoulder room = 53.2"
Hip room = 50.6"

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/musa2/pdf/specs/specs_MX5.pdf

That answers something that has puzzled me for a while. I wasn't sure what a Miata was. In England it's simply called an MX5.

[Draco-REX]

Yeah, it's called a Miata here in the US. Mazda probably felt MX5 wasn't personal enough for the American market. Though now it's called a MX-5 Miata in the US. Seems they're finally realizing that the US auto buyer has more than two braincells to rub together.

Though the jury's still out on whether they have more than three.

[Xusia]

I'd say the "average" American (of which I am one) has 22: 11 offense + 11 defense. At least in the fall... :)

[dclin]

I'd say the "average" American (of which I am one) has 22: 11 offense + 11 defense. At least in the fall... :)

That sound of silence is that of our international friends wondering what you're talking about lol.

Go Texans!

[dclin]

dclin- I like your extension of the rear "black" panel. I wonder if this panel could also do double duty extending forward as a fender liner or as ducting for air extraction for the intercooler and engine heat. I am assuming that the black panels are separate from the painted panels. These separate panels would allow some really innovative building techniques.

I'm glad Opp mentioned it, because my starting to warm to it. I didn't think I'd like at first, but the more I look at it now, the more I think it fits nicely. This is about the extent of my creativity though, so I'll have to defer to Rodney to make it look right lol.

I will say that that black panel could probably be broken into two distinct pieces; the bumper portion, and lower diffuser, to lessen the mass. I might give it a shot if I have more time later this week.

[Xusia]

That sound of silence is that of our international friends wondering what you're talking about lol.

Go Texans!

hehe, I'm sure. It wasn't intended for them, though. LOL :D

[Psay]

I'd say the "average" American (of which I am one) has 22: 11 offense + 11 defense. At least in the fall... :)

I assume you are referring to that game you play with an egg shaped ball, that you carry in your hands, throw to each other and occasionally kick and call football! LOL

[DrieStone]

Wow, those edits really changed the way I feel about the rear end. I'm not a huge fan of the rear lights, but that goes a long way to taking care of the "bubble butt" that I keep seeing.

I actually love those lights, I know a lot of people have complained about them, but I love the simplicity of the lights. Rodney's design plays with the whole idea of form and function, it never steps over that line of "poser". The lights, to me, are part of that, they aren't over designed, but the way they're integrated still makes them special. I would also imagine that off-the-shelf parts could easily be found for simple circular lights.

On a side note, I also had a '95GSX with a "big" 16G. Two engines and a transmission later I sold it. That car was insane.

[Xusia]

i assume you are referring to that game you play with an egg shaped ball, that you carry in your hands, throw to each other and occasionally kick and call football! Lol

what?!? ;)

[sidewinder]

i like rodney's current all-black rocker panels with the all-in the-rocker-panel-intake a lot better than the body colored alternative above that has a much taller intake that is recessed into the whole side. that black rocker panel is a distinctive trademark of the design for me- i've seen the other one lots of other places. also the current design increases the 'waisted' look of the car. it also avoids mating the intake across several pieces. if chassis the sill is high, that black rocker panel will just cover the sill with the door bottom above the sill instead of overlapping the door down below the sill - the door will be easier to build and to mate with the adjoining pieces.

at the shoulder, my mini cooper s is 55" wide at the glass with the interior of the doors 52" wide. i wouldn't want to go much narrower. so that 51.5" dimension at the glass given a few days ago might be a little tight if the door interior narrows that dimension significantly.

i really dislike the lambo imitation nose intakes. rodney's counter-curving oval mouth puts a little tension in the front end instead of it just being a melted blob all-flowing look.

no problem with that1. if you create sth nobody hates - then nobody will love it. ;)

btw. my sketches were not meant to be final designs - we do dozens of them during a designproject. this is just 1 option out of several others - for inspiration. wouldnt it be a pity if the car is being produced and somebody needs to ask: why havent you thought of or didnt you try this1?

[flyboy2160]

........- we do dozens of them during a designproject. this is just 1 option out of several others - for inspiration. wouldnt it be a pity if the car is being produced and somebody needs to ask: why havent you thought of or didnt you try this1?

:o i hear you EXACTLY. as i was properly trained, i do many alternate designs when designing airplanes and aircraft structure. many times you just want to explore an idea even if it turns out to not be the final design. (this is so much easier with parametric CAD modelling..)

i'm glad you didn't take my comments as some sort of personal self-esteem killing attack. i'm glad you looked at the alternatives; i just gave my reasons for personally preferring something else. YMMV

[sidewinder]

:o i hear you EXACTLY. as i was properly trained, i do many alternate designs when designing airplanes and aircraft structure. many times you just want to explore an idea even if it turns out to not be the final design. (this is so much easier with parametric CAD modelling..)

i'm glad you didn't take my comments as some sort of personal self-esteem killing attack. i'm glad you looked at the alternatives; i just gave my reasons for personally preferring something else. YMMV

cool. thx for clarifying. btw. you made some valid points.

[Flamshackle]

Oh wow... Just got home from holiday and ABSOLUTLEY love the new design in the 3D viewer...
I have been spinning and zooming and love it from all angles.

All the suggestions and edits are fine and ok, but IMO the car as it stands now is absolutely, freakingly, amazingly hot!

Rodney congrats, and thanks! for your commitment to bringing changes and evolving the design this far. Its a stunning and original little car that I just cant wait to build!

[dclin]

Perhaps getting a little ahead of ourselves, but found tail lights that nearly match perfectly:

5" outer tail/turn LED lamp (for outer lamp)
http://www.rallylights.com/detail.aspx?ID=2345

4.4" outer LED ring (for inner lamp)
http://www.rallylights.com/detail.aspx?ID=4926

2.5" inner reverse light (goes inside LED ring)
http://www.rallylights.com/detail.aspx?ID=4504


Haven't had much time to work on this. Here are some updates, things are moving along.

.....
Size of large round taillights on the back is 5" (red area) 7" Housing (Black area)
Size of small round taillights on the back is 3.75" (red area) 5" Housing (Black area) 2.2" (Backup Lights)
.....

The inner lamps would be a little larger overall than Rodney rendered, but not by much.

[Xusia]

NICE find!

[Flamshackle]

lights look great! real sweet find... PM Dave maybe?

[Draco-REX]

Those are really, really cool. Too bad I've had troubles with rallylights.com in the past. Good news is that they are certainly not Hella's only distributor.

[mekeys]

This is the version of Rodneys I like the best.
Mel


7369

[kach22i]

This is the version of Rodneys I like the best.
Mel


7369
Mel, somehow I have not seen that one before.

Who did it?

It mystified me why the lines drawn in did not follow the natural ones already there, so I fixed it to what I felt it could/should be.

Tell me what you think.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile/kach22i-modified-z120112.jpg
Slight change to the coloring and size of vent - more realistic.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile/kach22i-modified-z120112-B.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile/OrangeRodneyO.jpg
I like both the original, and the proposed change - no preference from me at this time. I need some time to mull this one over.

[Draco-REX]

I prefer the black vent.

Rodney's car has something that a LOT of designs do not, which is a consistency to the elements of the design. Too many car designers treat different parts of the car separately and don't carry elements throughout all of them. Audi is pretty guilty of that as the front of their cars look so great while the rears look so boring. Take a picture of the front and a picture of the rear and it could be two different cars.

This body, from the original blue to the first orange to the current design have always grabbed my attention because of how certain elements are used from bumper to bumper. Unfortunately, some of that has been worked out as the car has evolved, but a lot of it is still there. Two elements stand out:

Flat Black. The nose, rear diffuser area, side vents, and head fairings all have flat black portions. This gives the body a two-layer look; as if the colored skin is stretched to contain the flat black car beneath.

Concave. The hood, the rear deck lid, the old roof design, profile of the sides from above, even the border between color and flat black between the taillights and under the front. lip of the "hood" have this element. These concave depressions are throughout the car and really tie it all together.

As with the missing concave depression in the roof, removing the flat black vent on the door would diminish the consistency of the design making it look more mundane and normal. Remember, the biggest complaint about Jim's design is its lack of coherence between the various elements.

[flyboy2160]

I prefer the black vent.

Rodney's car has something that a LOT of designs do not, which is a consistency to the elements of the design. Too many car designers treat different parts of the car separately and don't carry elements throughout all of them. Audi is pretty guilty of that as the front of their cars look so great while the rears look so boring. Take a picture of the front and a picture of the rear and it could be two different cars.

This body, from the original blue to the first orange to the current design have always grabbed my attention because of how certain elements are used from bumper to bumper. Unfortunately, some of that has been worked out as the car has evolved, but a lot of it is still there. Two elements stand out:

Flat Black. The nose, rear diffuser area, side vents, and head fairings all have flat black portions. This gives the body a two-layer look; as if the colored skin is stretched to contain the flat black car beneath.

Concave. The hood, the rear deck lid, the old roof design, profile of the sides from above, even the border between color and flat black between the taillights and under the front. lip of the "hood" have this element. These concave depressions are throughout the car and really tie it all together.

As with the missing concave depression in the roof, removing the flat black vent on the door would diminish the consistency of the design making it look more mundane and normal. Remember, the biggest complaint about Jim's design is its lack of coherence between the various elements.

+1 ......and those black pieces mean there are fewer parts to have to color match

[dclin]

I prefer the black vent.

Rodney's car has something that a LOT of designs do not, which is a consistency to the elements of the design. Too many car designers treat different parts of the car separately and don't carry elements throughout all of them. Audi is pretty guilty of that as the front of their cars look so great while the rears look so boring. Take a picture of the front and a picture of the rear and it could be two different cars.

This body, from the original blue to the first orange to the current design have always grabbed my attention because of how certain elements are used from bumper to bumper. Unfortunately, some of that has been worked out as the car has evolved, but a lot of it is still there. Two elements stand out:

Flat Black. The nose, rear diffuser area, side vents, and head fairings all have flat black portions. This gives the body a two-layer look; as if the colored skin is stretched to contain the flat black car beneath.

Concave. The hood, the rear deck lid, the old roof design, profile of the sides from above, even the border between color and flat black between the taillights and under the front. lip of the "hood" have this element. These concave depressions are throughout the car and really tie it all together.

As with the missing concave depression in the roof, removing the flat black vent on the door would diminish the consistency of the design making it look more mundane and normal. Remember, the biggest complaint about Jim's design is its lack of coherence between the various elements.

I agree, I personally wish the side, black panels were still more inset, but I believe Rodney made them more flush with the surrounding panels so that people can paint them body color (or F5 can manufacture both ways), since some people expressed they wanted a more traditional look. The original look gave me something of the feel of a motorcycle, where one can see parts of the frame, or a KTM X-Bow.... but with some (skimpy) clothes on. :D

http://rodneyolmos.com/factoryfive/v2/images/2.jpg

[riptide motorsport]

Its growing on me.........

[mekeys]

I just now got back on line.It looks like we are going to have to agree to disagree.I DONT like the black panels on the side and I dont like the black on the grill or the rear.I love the shape of the body.I believe(my opinion) it looks better all in one color.(any color).Except black if you noticed one picture was posted in Black and you could hardly tell anything about the lines of the shape at all..

George I thought the changes you made were pretty good.I liked both of your versions,But I would still pick the version that I posted.I dont quite follow what you meant by the lines that were there ?..
I think sidewinder was the one that did the revisions.see comment #603 in this thread.I'll try to see if I can find his comment and will edit if I'm wrong ..

Mel

[bromikl]

http://rodneyolmos.com/factoryfive/v2/images/2.jpg

I miss the original concept. I know it's not coming back, but still. :(

[dclin]

I just now got back on line.It looks like we are going to have to agree to disagree.I DONT like the black panels on the side and I dont like the black on the grill or the rear.I love the shape of the body.I believe(my opinion) it looks better all in one color.(any color).Except black if you noticed one picture was posted in Black and you could hardly tell anything about the lines of the shape at all..

...

No worries, I doubt F5 would have any problems molding the black pieces in 'body' color, if that's what people want. :)

[kach22i]

I dont quite follow what you meant by the lines that were there ?..
The bottom of the door line was already "there". I don't understand the need to parallel that line with one just below it. Is there perhaps some magic created by having a lower sill line?

The 2013 Boxster shown below does what I was trying to do. In fact even in this example the sill/vent crease and door lines "line up" in elevation only, depth wise they of course diverge.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/627678-2015-boxster-rumors-2.html
7380

Now that I've had almost a day to think about it, the continuity and progressiveness of the angled black sill vent hits the right notes for this car. The alternates I did are nice and work, but are perhaps too refined and already found on other cars like the Boxster.

[sidewinder]

No worries, I doubt F5 would have any problems molding the black pieces in 'body' color, if that's what people want. :)

i agree with that and btw. its 1 part less.
i think kach22i`s suggestions are valid - to me its a matter of trying out/visualization from different angles.
the original concept with the black intakes appears to look slimmer on the pictures thanks to the contrasting colors.
my concern is that in real life the colored parts might look too weak in this area. and that in comparision the windows&roof (greenhouse) could look big and bulky.

[flyboy2160]

...Now that I've had almost a day to think about it, the continuity and progressiveness of the angled black sill vent hits the right notes for this car. The alternates I did are nice and work, but are perhaps too refined and already found on other cars like the Boxster.

:) reply of few words: +1

[scartaan]

I don't think the following thought has been covered- the black and painted panels could be of different material. The black panels could be like cladding and not be smooth and more resistant to damage. As I have previously mentioned, they could also have other functions such as air ducting or support for radiators etc. I could see the gokart version of the 818 with the black panels in place as needed for function and the colored panels added later to complete the car. So the black panels could be structural as well as cosmetic. They could be (Ford model T) " any color you want as long as it's black" to keep cost down as well.

[kitcarj]

73957394

[sidewinder]

73957394

interesting idea! i thought of version 2 too - means the black part is shaped like an island surrounded by colored bodyparts. thats definitely worth of being further developed. i think you can cut the door higher since there will be the frame/cage anyway. so dont be afraid of compromising the ergononics.

[Oppenheimer]

I don't think the following thought has been covered- the black and painted panels could be of different material. The black panels could be like cladding and not be smooth and more resistant to damage.


Right. I always just assummed that was the intent. Flat black, slightly textured, damage resistant, replaceable, probably plastic, etc.

[Psay]

Right. I always just assummed that was the intent. Flat black, slightly textured, damage resistant, replaceable, probably plastic, etc.

I am with you on that one Oppenheimer.

[mekeys]

73957394

No No No

Mel:)

[bromikl]

No No No Mel:)


Why don't you guys just give the Mona Lisa a nose job! Van Gogh never quite finished Starry Night, but a touch of green here... And Venus de Milo's chin could be a bit stronger.

For God's sake! Quit f-ing with it! Any more, and any less isn't part of the artist's vision, and doesn't fit the personality of the work. I say again, every version of O's car not done my O has been far poorer than the original. Please. For the love of all things holy, leave it be.

[balddog818]

i agree!! the changes don't look to bad but if we keep changing it its not going to be the same design anymore, how it looks in the 3d viewer is perfect and that's the one i would buy.

[Flamshackle]

i agree!! the changes don't look to bad but if we keep changing it its not going to be the same design anymore, how it looks in the 3d viewer is perfect and that's the one i would buy.

^^^+1 here!

[kitcarj]

73957394
I love the Elise but the Evora is kind of boring. To me the design has gone back to being a little boring like the Evora. Just my opinion I know. I just wanted to spice it up some. That curve at the bottom just doesn't say speed to me.

[kitcarj]

Bromikl and Flamshackle. You guys both want it left alone but neither of you has the current car as your avatar. Bromikl your avatar picture shows the design I would like to get back to. (At least the running board section) Flamshackle, you have the rounded running board but have the vertical vent at the front and back of the car. Do you guys prefer the current car or the one you now use as your avatar?

[bromikl]

I said before; I like the earlier versions, and I'm happy with the current one. I know the earlier ones aren't coming back, and I'm not advocating for that. But that doesn't mean I can't prefer one of the earlier versions.


My - and Flamshackle's - avatars were both done by the original artist. My avatar isn't a render - it's hand-drawn. (You really have to appreciate the skill to do both and have it look so similar.) But it's not about me or what I want. I made suggestions, and I never complained when O decided to go a different direction - but I never tried to alter O's design.

On the other hand, all the alterations I've seen are matters of personal preference, rather than required for technical reasons. Regardless of the quality of the alternatives presented - they're not O's work; and they have yet to work properly with the rest of the car.

[keys2heaven]

Rodney: At what point will you consider this to be "finished". I still see a low of tweaking by others (not that it's bad), and wanted to know if there will come a point where all changes will be frozen so that if FFR is considering going forward with this, then they can begin their work.

[flyboy2160]

No worries, I doubt F5 would have any problems molding the black pieces in 'body' color, if that's what people want. :)

i have to disagree. the black pieces look much more complex than the relatively simple body pieces. the same technology that gives un-painted colored body panels might not be feasible for those black pieces.

[kach22i]

I don't think there is a designer out there that lets go of a design without thinking he/she could keep working on it more. However, sometimes we get sick of it and have to put it down for a while. If Rodney is at that point, I for one would certainly understand.

[dclin]

i have to disagree. the black pieces look much more complex than the relatively simple body pieces. the same technology that gives un-painted colored body panels might not be feasible for those black pieces.

It was covered here:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?4460-Thermoform-Process&highlight=thermo%2A

though Dave hasn't gotten to the point as to deciding what parts are to be made in what process, post 35, along with other links within the threqad, shows that thermoformed parts can be made in intricate, colored parts.

If the black parts have to remain black, I won't shed a tear for those that want it body colored, because I think alot of concessions have already been made on the original designs. :D

[Flamshackle]

Bromikl and Flamshackle. You guys both want it left alone but neither of you has the current car as your avatar. Bromikl your avatar picture shows the design I would like to get back to. (At least the running board section) Flamshackle, you have the rounded running board but have the vertical vent at the front and back of the car. Do you guys prefer the current car or the one you now use as your avatar?

Just Lazy... But now that you bring this to my attention...

[Draco-REX]

I don't think there is a designer out there that lets go of a design without thinking he/she could keep working on it more. However, sometimes we get sick of it and have to put it down for a while. If Rodney is at that point, I for one would certainly understand.

To paraphrase: The mark of a true artist is knowing when to put the brush down.

[keys2heaven]

I'm just curious as to when Rodney will say, "that's it". Not trying to start anything, but timelines will start to become important at some point and that means the design has to be final. Sure, there may be some minor tweaking when panel fitment begins, but at the current pace of other's modifications, there could be a dozen more iterations.

[Draco-REX]

I'm just curious as to when Rodney will say, "that's it". Not trying to start anything, but timelines will start to become important at some point and that means the design has to be final. Sure, there may be some minor tweaking when panel fitment begins, but at the current pace of other's modifications, there could be a dozen more iterations.
Judging by what's been done so far, I think he has the rear left to do then he's going to call it "done" and start working with Jim on fitting it to the chassis with an eye for production.

[Nelff]

There is a lot to be said about options. Just because an artist can move his creations details around and say, okay, it could look like this too, doesn't mean that he's not done. F5 needs options and I'm guessing that's what the changes are for. Have us look at them and make comments. Personally, I love the different little things that are being done. It gives more choices in the design flow... The final is going to be produced when it's fitted to the chassis anyway. Until then it's just an excercise...

[Oppenheimer]

I said before; I like the earlier versions, and I'm happy with the current one. I know the earlier ones aren't coming back, and I'm not advocating for that. But that doesn't mean I can't prefer one of the earlier versions.


My - and Flamshackle's - avatars were both done by the original artist. My avatar isn't a render - it's hand-drawn. (You really have to appreciate the skill to do both and have it look so similar.) But it's not about me or what I want. I made suggestions, and I never complained when O decided to go a different direction - but I never tried to alter O's design.

On the other hand, all the alterations I've seen are matters of personal preference, rather than required for technical reasons. Regardless of the quality of the alternatives presented - they're not O's work; and they have yet to work properly with the rest of the car.

So you are OK with people making suggestions about what could be changed, but not OK with people actually making their own renderings of suggested changes? I'm not seeing the difference. How is a written suggestion less offensive to the design than a pictoral suggestion? Its simply a more efficient means of conveying an idea, pic = 1K words.

I don't see the harm in people making suggestions, verbal or via art. Rodney is in control of his design. He can take a suggestion, to leave it behind, as he has done to this point. If you have confidence in Rodney, then there is nothing to fear from people making suggestions.

[bromikl]

Opp - you make a good point. I guess it's hard to get over the shock of seeing O's masterpiece with someone else's graffiti on it. [/hyperbole] (Yes I know I'm taking this too seriously. I'm going to step away from the computer for a while. Carry on.) :)

[dclin]

For grins, I went back and looked at the original 3D viewer to compare to the latest. To say the design has matured is an understatement; I think Rodney has done a fantastic job of filtering our wants into something that is still uniquely his own. I think what throws us off is how graciously he has taken criticism and compliments alike, perhaps giving a sense that he may cave to every demand, so I understand where bromikl is coming from. (I'll add, this is even more succinct of a point, given how other designers couldn't, can't, or won't evolve theirs - same difference really). I don't think that's the case though, because it's evident he has not let the overall character slip away. The more I look at it, given the tight constraints of the F5 specs (it's suppose to be Elise size, AND fit wookies??! Wrap around a wonky rollbar?), the more I realize how genius the evolution is. As fun as it was for me to tinker with his design, I am completely satisfied with what we have here, and would be ecstatic if they 'sent it to the press', now.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7503&d=1326778285
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7504&d=1326778287

75037504

[Flamshackle]

Wow now that's a nice comparison. Reveals the attention to detail that has gone into it since the early dev images. Amazing work Rodney and good idea to compare the evolution.

[D2W]

Thanks for the side by side dclin. Kicka$$ evolution, nice job Rodney!

[16g-95gsx]

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7504&d=1326778287


Wow that looks fantastic to me.

[riptide motorsport]

Still looks like a Mitsubishi Eclipse to me :(

[Flamshackle]

Still looks like a Mitsubishi Eclipse to me :(

7517

You really think so?

7518

Naaaaa... I like both however :D

[flyboy2160]

Still looks like a Mitsubishi Eclipse to me :(

although it does have some styling elements similar to the eclipse concept car and to the peugeot 905, rodney's is a much, much better design. (i predict he will get snapped up by a big car company when this design gets out....so we better get him while the getting's good and he's still working for peanuts.) he has plenty of cues to distinguish his car, especially if he keeps his short front overhang/stubby nose.

the more i compare rodney's car to my saved beautiful car pictures, the more i can't find one i like better.

75257526752775287529

[scartaan]

I agree with flyboy2160, Rodney should have a great future.

[bbjones121]

Still looks like a Mitsubishi Eclipse to me :(

Couldn't agree more. Looks very teenage ricey to me, at least from that angle. Not the "front of valet quality", I was hoping for.... but then again, i wouldn't want valet touching my car.

[dclin]

Couldn't agree more. Looks very teenage ricey to me, at least from that angle. Not the "front of valet quality", I was hoping for.... but then again, i wouldn't want valet touching my car.

What, exactly, is your definition of 'ricey'? :)

[bbjones121]

What, exactly, is your definition of 'ricey'? :)

Rodneys car from that angle.

[Draco-REX]

Rodneys car from that angle.
So you feel Rodney's design is style over substance with cheap visual enhancements that are added at the expense of performance and that the car is, in essence, a hopped-up econo-box that would have trouble getting out of the way of a minivan?

Just trying to be clear on what you're saying.

[keys2heaven]

Post war in 3....2....1 :)

[bbjones121]

The more I look, the more it is growing on me. I like it from the other angles. But from that last one, first impression is a body kitted eclipse. Has nothing to do with performance, but that was a good attempt at changing the arguement.

[Xusia]

If I didn't know anything about FFR or this forum, and someone showed me Rodney's design, I would have thought it was an Audi. Either a high new end model I hadn't seen yet, or a concept. Eclipse would not have even entered my mind. I'm not saying people who see similarities to other cars such as the Eclipse are wrong. I'm just pointing out that people see the world differently.

bbjones, have you seen it using the 3d viewer? If not, I highly recommend it. Afterward, I seriously doubt you will find it ricey even in the slightest!

[bbjones121]

I will try to check it out tonight.

[Draco-REX]

I was pointing out that the term ricer shouldn't apply, regardless of styling. That's why dclin and I were curious about your choice of words.

The styling is definitely import-like. Personally, I like that. It shows more commitment to a look than most designs you see coming from USDM sources and even some EUDM designs. There are some similarities to the Eclipse, just as there are some to the Exige. But the overall look is far from either.

Now while there have been some tweaks to the rear, I don't think Rodney is done yet. (Please correct me if I'm wrong, Rodney) So there might be some changes to come.

[dclin]

Post war in 3....2....1 :)

LOL - no, like Draco said, it was a little surprising to hear that term applied to this design. If anything, IMHO, the current design is the antithesis of 'rice'; the design is very minimalist and clean, and I would argue that the Elise is more 'racy' (but not necessarily 'ricey', of course):

http://lethistorylive.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Lotus-Elise-S-44.jpg

I've observed that the term 'rice' is often used loosely, usually bestowed on something simply because the accuser doesn't like it. However, if bbjones sees a Mitsubishi Eclipse with a body kit, who am I to say he doesn't lol?

[bbjones121]

When i think ricey, I think of something a teenager would drive around, a toy for kids. I want a racy, sporty exotic. Something that would be showcased at the front of a fancy restaurant.

[dclin]

When i think ricey, I think of something a teenager would drive around, a toy for kids. I want a racy, sporty exotic. Something that would be showcased at the front of a fancy restaurant.

Fair enough, though frankly, that's not quite my definition of 'rice', or what I think most people would consider it to be. You could say that teenagers make up the majority of offenders, but I've seen alleged adults guilty of rice crimes (heck, I'm probably guilty of a few misdemeanors in the past 21 years of modding cars). Then again, the term isn't exactly in Webster's, so it's a moot point.

Having said that, I think it's going to be hard for any of 818 designs to fit your definition of exotic, front of fancy restaurant type car, given the stiff design (specifically the tiny size) and cost criteria that F5 set. I only wish for my example to be featured in a pit area, if in public lol. I think you're really looking for a Ferrari or Lambo. ;)

[bbjones121]

I think it's going to be hard for any of 818 designs to fit your definition of exotic, front of fancy
restaurant type car, given the stiff design (specifically the tiny size) and cost criteria that F5 set.

This topic has been discussed in detail a lot. It can be done, nouphones, vmans, and definitely shawns design can are all exotic in a small package. Even some of rodneys meet that.

[flyboy2160]

no way rodney's car is rice. everything you need to know about rice: http://www.riceboypage.com/

[Draco-REX]

This topic has been discussed in detail a lot. It can be done, nouphones, vmans, and definitely shawns design can are all exotic in a small package. Even some of rodneys meet that.

I think you will be disappointed when you see it "in the flesh". It is VERY hard to make a car the size of a Miata look sleek and stylish due to the headroom constraints which neccesitate a tall greenhouse. As we've seen from both Rodney's and Jim's design, going from drawings to 3D to real life will change how a design looks drastically.

Just don't get your hopes up.

[kach22i]

I was pointing out that the term ricer shouldn't apply, regardless of styling.
Just to have some fun creating my own slang dictionary off the top of my head.

Ricer: A trashy automotive exhibit/example and or modification executed in poor taste and of questionable value. Typically a car of Asian origins, as opposed to "White Trash" or "Ghetto" styling.

As used in a sentence:
That ricer Honda Civic with the fart can over there is a joke.

That ricer Honda Civic with the NOS over there is a bad mother f'er.

See post #7
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/652194-well-set-up-mustang-sells-242-000-a.html#post6505866

It look like a ricer had his way with it. :rolleyes:

.................................................. ....................

Ricey: An exaggerated or animated youthful flair of possible Asian influence pertaining to either styling or actual performance.

As used in a sentence:
Rodney's design has grown on me, although I thought it was a bit ricey at first.

The discussion about Rodney's design has become irrelevant, with all this ricey talk.

[PhyrraM]

Ricer - origen: Rice burner - 1970s - A sportbike not from American or Europe, likely from Japan.


:cool: :p

[kach22i]

Ricer - origen: Rice burner - 1970s - A sportbike not from American or Europe, likely from Japan.


:cool: :p
I remember that era, I once took my 1978 Honda Hawk to a biker bar in Detroit (1979) where my buddy was the drummer in the band. Prior to playing he was kind enough to make the announcement not to mess with the ricer bike in the parking lot, because it belonged to a friend of his which came to hear the band.:cool:

[Oppenheimer]

As seen on fuel filler: "Wild Rice Only"

[Vman7]

I remember that era, I once took my 1978 Honda Hawk to a biker bar in Detroit (1979) where my buddy was the drummer in the band. Prior to playing he was kind enough to make the announcement not to mess with the ricer bike in the parking lot, because it belonged to a friend of his which came to hear the band.:cool:

Interesting, I had a 1979 Honda Hawk and I lived in Troy, MI, just north of Detroit.......lol

[Xusia]

I believe the term "rice burner" also applied to automobiles, such as the Honda Civic, and not just motorcycles. In the 70s, Honda was a still a young auto manufacturer in the US, and they were making small, economy cars, with small 4 cylinder engines. "Rice burner" comes from the fact the vehicles were from Asia, and featured small, high revving engines (as opposed to the big block V8 power of US cars of the time). The term implies they are under powered, of questionable quality, and generally inadequate.

The modern term "ricer" is a derivative that applies to the modding of the aforementioned Asian import cars in a way that is - as Kach put it - "in poor taste or of questionable value."

[mekeys]

I had a 52 Triumph Thunderbird when I was in the Air Force in England between 1951-1953.It was only about $550..

Mel

[PhyrraM]

Actually, I don't think it related directly to a 4 cylinder or torque curve, but the idea that the only mass commodity in Asia was rice, so it *must* have run on rice or rice alchohol instead of gasoline. I would also guess that old WW2 and fresh Vietnam sentiments had something to do with the source of the phrase too.

Either way, it doesn't concern the 818 much. The 818 will only use the mechanical bits from the Subaru, and *todays* ricers usually leave those alone.

;)

[kach22i]

........so it *must* have run on rice or rice alchohol instead of gasoline.
I remember this story too from the early 1980's, typically followed by; I need to take a piss, or I need to get another beer.

Could be an Urban Legend, or it could have a basis in truth from a post WWII Japan short on gasoline.

[RonSchofield]

so it *must* have run on rice or rice alchohol instead of gasoline.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_burner

[bbjones121]

I think you will be disappointed when you see it "in the flesh". It is VERY hard to make a car the size of a Miata look sleek and stylish due to the headroom constraints which neccesitate a tall greenhouse. As we've seen from both Rodney's and Jim's design, going from drawings to 3D to real life will change how a design looks drastically.

Just don't get your hopes up.

There are plenty of exotic cars on the road that meet the same size as this. I will not list again, this was already discussed before, probably before you were on these forums. As I stated back then, it can be done, it is proven, and I prefer to view the glass half full rather than half empty...well actually i prefer to view the glass designed twice as large as it should be, but my point is to be optimistic.

[olpro]

You are perfectly correct. There is nothing wrong with the proportions of this vehicle.

[Flamshackle]

I keep coming back to that 3D viewer! its a 1 click link on my browser and I keep coming back to look at it every other day. LOVE THE DESIGN RODNEY! I have become an Olmos addict!

[RodneyO]

Hi everyone,

Sorry for the lack of updates, real life and work has gotten a hold of me really tight this last few weeks.

I updated the viewer, it shows the latest changes and I'm really sleepy at the moment to list them right now. I'll create another post tomorrow, with more mindful thoughts so I don't sound all high if I posted them now.

Here is the viewer.
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/venom3/v3.jpg (http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/venom3)

and some new render.
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/RO%20Project%20818%20Orange_thumb.jpg (http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/RO%20Project%20818%20Orange.jpg)

[GUNS]

I love the subtle changes! The front end to me looks much less stubby. Dave, please build this!

Edit: I just notice all the customization in the 3d viewer...cool!

[kach22i]

It looks like a piece of plump fruit, ready for picking.

I think it's done, FFR could do far far worse than building this car "as is".

[Draco-REX]

Darn, going to have to wait until I get home from work to see the new changes.

[Oppenheimer]

Wow, A lot to like. My overall impression, improvement all around (though subtle).

Some new body lines around the fenders that make their way to the rear bumper. Really ends up cleaning up the bumper area. Really poor graphics on my machine, but it looks like some sort of body colored mesh vent thing going on at the bottom rear of the Q-panels? Looks good from what I can see.

Some of these new lines are very close to taking away from the organic sculpted look the design has had. Any more and they'd be too much. I'm thinking some will think they are already too much. Wondering what it would look like if these new lines were toned down a little. As it is, these new lines make it look (to me) more in line with current 'modern' styling. Not sure if that is a good thing or bad.

Also wondering what it would look like with a body colored roof. Hoping someone with skills can mock that up off this latest version, just to see what it would look like (as an option, I know many like the black roof).

Also wishing to see it without spoiler, or with an integrated lip spoiler. Hoping someone can mock that up, too.

[slopoke]

is there room for the exhaust in that configuration or would the gearbox be in the way? ... I smell something burning

[Oppenheimer]

Yes, some things will probably end up needing tweaking to fit this skin over the car (chassis, engine, etc). I see, for the most part, the body changing to fit the car, rather than the other way 'round.

But I think that can all be done without too much effort, and Rodney has shown he is quite capable of that.

[Xusia]

Also wishing to see it without spoiler, or with an integrated lip spoiler. Hoping someone can mock that up, too.

In the viewer, just click on the word "Spoiler" and it will remove it. Clicking on the other words do what you would think as well. :)

[Oppenheimer]

In the viewer, just click on the word "Spoiler" and it will remove it. Clicking on the other words do what you would think as well. :)

Good to know. Can't get viewer to show up well on my crappy work PC. Will see if I can find something with decent graphics to check it out.

[mekeys]

All i'm getting is a rotating black silhouette..But the red on the tires and the markings look great..

Mel Keys

[Xusia]

There must be some really crappy computers out there! My work PC is nothing special ($60 graphics card - for dual monitors), and it works fine. I wonder what goodness awaits me at home! :D

[kitcarj]

I don't know exactly what you did but even without an uptick it looks better now. I think it is because now your eye flows along that crease around the rear wheel instead of being driven into the ground by that black arch.
On the roadster I really like behind the roll bar where the body rolls into the engine bay.

[jdek]

wow.. This looks excellent! definitely refined!
those mirrors look great, but they don't work too well ;)

[Draco-REX]

Looks great. I'd own one of those no problem. :)

[dclin]

HOT!!!!! Love to roadster too!!!!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7604&d=1327533947

7604

[scartaan]

Rodney- Well done- you have gilded the lily and I love it!

[GUNS]

Rodney, thanks again for all of the hard work and constant feedback. If I have to make one critique, something still seems a little off with the rear of the car. Could you make a spoiler to seamlessly fill the gap, like the cars pictured below? I think this may help ties the back of the car together.

7607
7609
7610

[Vman7]

This design justs keeps getting better!! After going through the viewer I would say this is it for Rodney. I wouldn't do anything else to this design, everything flows very well.

[flyboy2160]

viewer works ok for me with 32 bit IE.

i seriously don't like that the front overhang is larger than the rear overhang. why? there's no engine up front. this car looks like it has about the same front overhang as my fwd mini cooper s. since it's a mid-engine car, why not use a short front overhang to dramatically drive that home?

if i get one, i'd cut off the nose shown and revert back to a real short stubby one.

[sonicrex]

I liked the previous headlights better, but it still looks good. (Lotus shmotus :mad:) Loving the green.

[Flamshackle]

im high right now on this 3D viewer :D

[dclin]

viewer works ok for me with 32 bit IE.

i seriously don't like that the front overhang is larger than the rear overhang. why? there's no engine up front. this car looks like it has about the same front overhang as my fwd mini cooper s. since it's a mid-engine car, why not use a short front overhang to dramatically drive that home?

if i get one, i'd cut off the nose shown and revert back to a real short stubby one.

LOL, yeah, it's definitely not short as the original, but still looks good to me. It's a compromise I think that had to be made to make it more mainstream. I'd also say the overhang ratio also isn't as exaggerated compared to others, like the Enzo,Carrera GT, F40, and others.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7612&d=1327549772

7612

[dclin]

Rodney, thanks again for all of the hard work and constant feedback. If I have to make one critique, something still seems a little off with the rear of the car. Could you make a spoiler to seamlessly fill the gap, like the cars pictured below? I think this may help ties the back of the car together.

7607
7609
7610

Yeah, I'd like to see a subtle 'duck tail', one that maybe doesn't extend all the way to each side car, but across the 'valley', sorta like you're talking about.

[flyboy2160]

LOL, yeah, it's definitely not short as the original, but still looks good to me. It's a compromise I think that had to be made to make it more mainstream. I'd also say the overhang ratio also isn't as exaggerated compared to others, like the Enzo,Carrera GT, F40, and others.
7612

but why does the compromise have to be made? this isn't a mainstream car, so why should it look like cars that must meet the nanny state regulations and appeal to soccer moms and other appliance drivers?

i liked the outrageous, wildly original blue car with the monster performance-screaming look-at-me offset tire bulges the best. the middle iterations still held the original wildness for me. but this latest iteration has gone through what i call the transistor effect - seemingly small changes flip my evaluation from 'good looking' to "no, i don't like that." now it is really starting to look like an eclipse.

[GUNS]

but why does the compromise have to be made? this isn't a mainstream car, so why should it look like cars that must meet the nanny state regulations and appeal to soccer moms and other appliance drivers?

i liked the outrageous, wildly original blue car with the monster performance-screaming look-at-me offset tire bulges the best. the middle iterations still held the original wildness for me. but this latest iteration has gone through what i call the transistor effect - seemingly small changes flip my evaluation from 'good looking' to "no, i don't like that." now it is really starting to look like an eclipse.

Beacause IMO it looks better. I did not like the ultra stubby front end of the original. As the car stands right now it looks much more proportional. It still has a short overhang, but atleast now looks more like a real car.

[Xusia]

I also think Rodney has improved the design considerably with the changes he has made. I went from not liking it as much as some of the others to REALLY, REALLY liking it. I would be very happy to have the current design in my garage.

[PhyrraM]

Agreed, the refined versions look much better to me.

The only glaring item left worth talking about is the (possibly) impossible to implement center exhaust. I would like to see a simple, lightweight, single tip. (even if the current fad is for dual, or specially mount exhausts)

[Oppenheimer]

Beacause IMO it looks better. I did not like the ultra stubby front end of the original. As the car stands right now it looks much more proportional. It still has a short overhang, but atleast now looks more like a real car.

Agree. It seems that many who really loved the original are liking the updated version less and less. Everyone else, that wasn't totally sold on the original seem to like it more and more. So yes, there are compromises being made, but not so that it appeals to soccer Moms and appliance drivers, but rather so that it appeals to the rest of us enthusiasts that weren't totally in love with the original.

From my POV, it feels like those that really loved the original liked that it was so different than anything else on the road. Different just to be different. I just hope a balance can be found so that it can move forward without leaving behind all those that originally loved it and fought so hard to push it to the forefront. Obviously it can't make everyone happy, but hopefully it can make most happy.

In person I don't think anyone will be thinking Eclipse. Its still a dramatically short overhang. The original would have looked a bit freakish in full scale.

[Oppenheimer]

Rodney, thanks again for all of the hard work and constant feedback. If I have to make one critique, something still seems a little off with the rear of the car. Could you make a spoiler to seamlessly fill the gap, like the cars pictured below? I think this may help ties the back of the car together.
7610

+1.

[PhyrraM]

I just noticed the headlights (tails too) of the new Chevy Sonic. They have the currently popular projector beam look, but without the tacky and troublesome clear plastic cover.

I think Rodney's car would look great with lights that used these as inspiration.

[Xusia]

Hey! I like the tacky and troublesome clear plastic cover! It keeps the body smooth (easier to keep clean as opposed to working around the smallish details of the headlamps themselves), and is easily replaced if necessary (such as if it gets cracked, hazy/clouded, etc.). :D

[VTX]

I'm definitely liking it more with the new revisions. Good work Rodney!

[Flamshackle]

Rodney, thanks again for all of the hard work and constant feedback. If I have to make one critique, something still seems a little off with the rear of the car. Could you make a spoiler to seamlessly fill the gap, like the cars pictured below? I think this may help ties the back of the car together.

7607
7609
7610

On reflection I think this ^ is a great idea and wonder how easy it would be to attempt? otherwise its absolutely stunning and I have already wasted countless hours playing with the 3D viewer!

[dclin]

but why does the compromise have to be made? this isn't a mainstream car, so why should it look like cars that must meet the nanny state regulations and appeal to soccer moms and other appliance drivers?

i liked the outrageous, wildly original blue car with the monster performance-screaming look-at-me offset tire bulges the best. the middle iterations still held the original wildness for me. but this latest iteration has gone through what i call the transistor effect - seemingly small changes flip my evaluation from 'good looking' to "no, i don't like that." now it is really starting to look like an eclipse.

Lol, unfortunately, compromises needed to be made to give the design a greater chance at being one of the bodies picked for the 818 (and there still is no guarantee yet). Dave mentioned in the video introducing the models that work still needed to be done on Rodney's (though more specifically, meeting spec requirements), and it was obviously a polarizing design. There are some things I miss, but ultimately, I see an amazingly evolved model that still has its original character underneath.

To be honest, I think we all deserve to give ourselves a pat on the back for where we've gotten so far. For the most part, the debate has been civil, and I think the results are pretty amazing to say the least, and which the majority will back. In fact, I would argue that were we to replace the goobers in congress with ourselves, we would probably come up with a pretty lean, low slung budget, with nice, clean lines, that both parties would be ecstatic with lol. :D

RodneyO for Commander in Chief, 2012!!!!

[Xusia]

Douching Congress is a great idea!

[Jeff Kleiner]

I just noticed the headlights (tails too) of the new Chevy Sonic. They have the currently popular projector beam look, but without the tacky and troublesome clear plastic cover.

I think Rodney's car would look great with lights that used these as inspiration.

Speaking of lighting, this is one of the things I have not yet seen addressed. Some states require and will check for DOT approval on lights upon registration/inspection. I know that in the early days of the roadster before FFR started providing lighting with DOT numbers this caused issues for some builders.

I can see this causing one of two things with the 818:
1) Headlights and tail lights will have to come from a donor of some sort and have the body shape worked around them.
2) FFR will have to come up with a design, find a vendor to tool up and produce it and get DOT approval. This undoubtedly would be both time consuming and costly.

Better be looking at the front and back of every car you see and try to visualize whether the head, turn and tail lights could be integrated into the design of your choice.

Now, should we talk about the same concerns with the windshield...

Jeff

[16g-95gsx]

It looks absolutely nothing like an Eclipse, and this is coming from a long standing DSMer.

The original design was absolutely not something I would want, but you really have changed that around Rodney. This thing looks fantastic, and the roadster version looks equally amazing.

[kach22i]

I will say that in the latest renderings, the car looks more relaxed and stretched out length wise. I'm not exactly sure which changes caused this new perception, but it is a positive one as it was looking just a little stubby before.

I should also complement the well executed rear engine venting. It can be debated whether such grilles should be recessed as they are now, or pop up above the deck plane, or perhaps even be flush. However, the curvature and general character is quite pleasing and hopefully equally functional.

[Xusia]

I can see this causing one of two things with the 818:
1) Headlights and tail lights will have to come from a donor of some sort and have the body shape worked around them.
2) FFR will have to come up with a design, find a vendor to tool up and produce it and get DOT approval. This undoubtedly would be both time consuming and costly.


What about option 3: Use an off the shelf part that is DOT approved? I'm sure they exist.

[BrandonDrums]

I still would like to see the tail lights wider apart and the main line over the rear wheels connect with the upper corners of the taillights while staying lower over the wheels. That would bring the *** end lower and wider visually and make the car look more aggressive. Right now the rear end just sits too high making the wheels look smaller and giving the tail a 'puckered' look. I don't want the tail to look droopy at all, I just want it to not look too perky as it does now.

Just a nitpick really. The car as-is still is above and beyond what I even hoped for this car....