Design Model - O's - Feedback and Suggestions

[fateo66]

Could someone show me some variations of different roof scoops?

[dclin]

The doorstop may have them beat...

However, the point is, the rears only do about 20% of the braking anyway.

Even with the crappy solid rotor in the rear, you go through front pads about 3-times as fast as you do rears at the track. So while there's not a lot of capacity there, not a lot is needed.

The H6 upgrade would be nice in this car. Similar bias shift like the 4-pots, no added weight of the vented rotor where it isn't needed.

My concern is that the stock brakes were designed for the WRX's 60/40 weight distribution; I'm guessing that the 818 would be different, hence the reason I've already budgeted for a brake upgrade :) Sorry Rodney, I'll take the brake conversation to another thread lol.

[dclin]

I always thought this design looked a little weak in the middle, like it would break in half. This (very rough) modification just takes some of the curve out of the middle (and a longer front overhang is probably needed to clear the radiator as well as look less stubby). The rear is still a little chubby at the top.
5821

If you can take the beltline back down just a tiny bit, and shorten the front overhang (maybe not quite as short as before, but the longer overhang kind throws the proportions off for me), I think it would be great, and time to call it a wrap. :)

As for the rear, "I like big butts, and I cannot lie..." (sorry :) )

[dclin]

Here is some inspiration for those tweaking the design, Maserati Birdcage:

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/images/large/295/Maserati-Tipo-61-Birdcage_4.jpg

[bbjones121]

Here is Olpro's side with the door beltline adjusted up. I added a couple of color matched tops.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5829&d=1320631174
5829

That looks very good. I wish we could see some orange side views from RodneyO himself..

[dclin]

I think I prefer the arched rocker... if it was inset as it went towards the rear of the car the bottom section of the rear fender could still become a scoop (from the cut line to the bottom of the rocker)

I agree; the straight, inset rocker feels a little out of place. Rodney introduced it with the orange concept, but I think you're right about tweaking it to include a barely noticeable scoop.

[dclin]

Here is Olpro's side with the door beltline adjusted up. I added a couple of color matched tops.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5829&d=1320631174
5829

I like it better with the black trim; the all body colored trim really emphasizes the lost 'window area' to me. Yep, I feel the beltline needs to be dropped a bit, olpro's mod was a little too much IMHO. I'm sure there is a happy median in there somewhere.

I'm also curious how it would look if the sweeping 'collar' remained blacked out, while the targa was body colored. I know it wouldn't look good in the 2D, side view, but in a 3/4, it might be interesting.

http://rodneyolmos.com/factoryfive/v1/images/armadura_top_3.jpg

[kach22i]

Here is some inspiration for those tweaking the design, Maserati Birdcage:
REVISED.
5838
I like it both ways myself.

[16g-95gsx]

The refined front and rear both really set the car off, that is absolutely what it needed.

You know what else sets the front end apart? It LOOKS like a mid engined car, and has a hood vent........

I'm glad to see those brake ducts and exhaust vent rectangles were changed, they made the car look too "hot wheels"-esque. Absolutely love the orange color mixed with black, but then again I'm a VT grad, so I'm partial to burnt orange :).

[RonSchofield]

If it was me, I would stop making modifications now and leave it at Rodney's "orange" image. As for a curved rocker panel, i don't think it is necessary as you are going to always going to have a straight line at the bottom of the car. I the "orange" car doesn't get produced by Factory Five, I would buy the 818 frame and build my own body using that drawing. If anyone has been following my coupe build, I have made a lot of molds to replace or create pieces for my coupe. For my next build, I want a bigger challenge. I can actually see the body done in molds that allow for orange and black gelcoat pieces that are added together to get the right look.

Rodney, make sure you save everything as it looks in the "orange" car. It is a thing of beauty.

[ScoobySnack818]

The only 818 I want to build is "the orange one". Hair has been on fire since I saw it for the first time.

[BipDBo]

How does this design get air to the intercooler and/or ventilate the engine bay?

[keys2heaven]

I think the curved rocker needs to stay. The straight variation is a huge minus.

I also agree that there has been a lot of cooks in the kitchen on this one. Let's take a step back and let Rodney go over some of the feedback and put his spin on it if he wants. A 3D version would be nice.

I'd hate to see this tweaked into a bland, boring, look like everything else on the road concept. The beauty of this design is because of its uniqueness.

And I'd also like to know what Dave thinks about the changes in the orange model!

[bromikl]

Rodney has already taken our suggestions and modified his original blue HoF design, producing the even better Napalm orange one. Why not trust him to make any needed adjustments? He's proven he can do a fantastic job. I feel all the 'adjustments' done by others have completely wrecked the concept. In addition you've been working with the blue design, which is now obsolete. Time to practice patience - it's O's design; and it's in good hands.

[bbjones121]

I agree let Rodney do any changes. You look at this thread and can't tell which pictures are his(well you can, but some people probably can't).

[skullandbones]

I've only been following this process since July but I can tell you that this is the best I've seen people "play together" for some time. I think everybody or most everybody likes the design and wants to help tweak it with their suggestions or by adding edits from other sources like Rodney's himself. I find this not distructive at all but rather constructive in that it shows some different views and edits much faster than the "original designer" could do. Also, many of these pics are cosmetic in nature and really help to show how your eye can be influenced by minor changes e.g. the rocker panel straight or curved. It also aids the designer, I think, by giving him the honest feedback from the community. As a somewhat outside observer, I have confidence that this process will bring out the very best of Rodney's design and possibly other ones as some others have suggested. WEK.

[bbjones121]

There is a reasonable limit and there is a pm function on these forums.

[olpro]

The individual designer in these situations always has to make a decision; to hold out for minimal changes and risk being eliminated or make some modifications and maybe see that design go into production.
Too many changes and the design is lost so there are limits. On the other hand, there are going to be discoveries as the process goes forward and there will be the possibility of real improvements.

This is at the point where changes should also incorporate package and engineering developments, assuming progress on those things has been occurring. It is far more efficient to bring this all together in as few steps as possible.

One problem is that all this is happening to this model but not so much the others (official models at least). Lacking good photos, is really isn’t possible for this type of community process to work. Maybe there will be some consistent and controlled photos coming forth on the #1 and #3 models.

Actually it is a good time to make some cuts rather than pursuing designs that aren’t really in consideration anyway – and that is not up to the designers or us. If another design(s) is really going to be added to the mix then some realistic thinning of the herd is vital.
We do not know what is happening with regard to engineering, etc. let alone financial and capital development. It is logical to assume that SEMA may have been focused that part of the effort.

[skullandbones]

I forgot to make a point about the "enjoyment factor" of the forum. I don't follow this process to the degree that some design types do but I would like to be able to check in on it periodically and still know what's going on. If the PM function is used to communicate some important details and those are not shared on the open forum, you (rather me) get a skewed view of the conversation because you weren't included on that critical point. It happens in email all the time when someone is cced on a string and then left off for one or two times then included again, later. It is frustrating to say the least. I agree that moderation is a good value to keep in mind when applying changes. I can't wait to see some more variations in Rodney's upgraded design. Thanks, WEK.

[bbjones121]

I guess that is the right way to look at it. Forums are forums for a reason, they allow open discussion. Changing a pictue can express your idea a lot better than words in these cases. I like the way kach22 puts a watermark on his edits.

[Oppenheimer]

yes, pic = 1k words. Much easier to show Rodney what you are suggesting than try to describe it. Its not like showing an idea somehow takes away from the current 'Rodney approved' design. Its just a suggestion that is illustrated.

BTW, if this car is built, and one of the colors offered is orange, the official name of that color should absolutely be Bromkil's suggestion:

Napalm Orange

[dclin]

REVISED.
5838
I like it both ways myself.

LOL, for the love of God, is nothing sacred? Let's go and paint a mustache on the Mona Lisa while we're at it? :)

I agree, I like the way kach22i watermarks his tweaks. I wouldn't mind if comments were placed inside the image to describe what the revisionist is trying to acheive.

Having said that, I too, think that there isn't much left to do with the orange version. Some very, very minor trimming, and that's it. The more I look at the sides though, the more I really prefer the curved rocker. It really accentuates the flares (really evident in the rear, 3/4 view of the yellow car), and I think it should remain as that the flares have been cut down compared to the original (i'm trying to picture straight edge, and it's not working for me).

[Tpa65cpe]

Well have been trying to follow all of the 818 threads to see progress on this and seen the Napalm Orange revised version, Hell I had to run and jump in the shower just to put myself out!! With the rounded rockers like the yellow one IMHO this will be the Bomb!! You go Rodney!! Great job on changes so far try to keep it as close to this as possibile because it definitly looks unique. HOF material if I have ever seen one!!

[Oppenheimer]

How about combine the vent at the rear of the rocker with the curved rocker?

[crackedcornish]

How about combine the vent at the rear of the rocker with the curved rocker?
read post #249 :-)

[RodneyO]

Hi again,
I feel I bit hesitant posting an update since there are still many little things to do, but I figure I could show you what I got so far. It is still a work in progress. These are not renders but straight screengrabs off the 3d Program.

note.
- This does not reflect the correct scale size tire and rims but it is the correct width of the car.
- Side, back, and top are not done yet. I'm trying to design something that doesn't lose the original essence but fits the new front.

http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/V3_3.jpg
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/V3_4.jpg

[RodneyO]

About all the critiques, feedback, and some nice things people have said about defending some design ideas... thank you. I have really thick skin so keep comments and feedback coming. Being an artist and having worked on team oriented projects, I feel very comfortable in this process. Art is an emotion and I think your job as an artist is to try to figure out what emotions people are trying to communicate and hopefully you can place those in a drawing or 3d etc.. I'm still working on the suggested changes and some that are my own but not everything suggested will make it in. I'm all ears though..

Here are some design rules I try to follow very hard:

"Don't add anything that takes away from the original design"
"If a new idea brakes the original design then you are starting over"
"If it improves the design then those are good additions as long as they don't break the first 2"
"always be open to new ideas, an idea can always be improved"

There are tons more stuff that I try to follow, but I try to bump those to the front when I can. With that being said, this was the original plan:

- I did not look at existing cars when I started building this car in 3d because I did not want to get influenced by other designs. I felt that if you want something original, you just start playing and see where it goes. That seemed to work.. I didn't expect to get picked and I thank FFR for that. Some people find this design to be a bit alien but that was its purpose.

- Exposed plastic (Black areas) was intended because not many cars try that, so I said sure.. why not lets try that. ( some people like it some hate it), I'm sticking with this idea because it makes the design unique. I figure individuals can paint the parts if they want to. ( I will let the 3d viewer have this capability).

- I love super cars and classic aggressive shapes, in my mind a sports machine should look like it can tear the road apart. I gravitate towards 2 door cars and I still have a growing relationship about liking 4 door sports cars. As much as I love the performance of my brother's Evo 8 and friend's STi's, it would be hard for me to ever buy one. I may get shot for this but I personally like the looks of 370z over the GT-R. Performance wise that's a different story.

I'm a bit of an extremist and childish with my taste, I hope not to ever lose that because it is the reason why I fell in love with cars when I was a kid. The exaggerated shapes of super cars, the cool spoilers, the roaring engine, the stance, the awesome big fat tires from the back, the mufflers making that awesome unique noise per car. I use to sit and stare at my toy cars when I was a kid because of some of these features and I still do it now as an adult on the internet :P Something I heard in Top Gear once which explains the way I feel about cars was said by Richard Hammond.. something along these veins; he was criticizing a car that had amazing performance but did not have the that inner child that loves super cars, cool spoilers, awesome air intakes, fun curves, etc, this rang so true with me.

I would love to one day buy a super car, I can't afford one and will not ever be able to. The thought of this car was to make it unique and be that little affordable super car that you can have in your garage (mine was my RX-7, but sold it to buy a house. I want a new car. Really looking forward to this 818).

With the performing numbers that FFR is trying to put together, this should be an amazingly fun car to drive. I believe that any of the designs that are being worked on by FFR will be a success, sorry for the long post.

cheers

[bbjones121]

Looks awesome Rodney!

I thought that there was a vent on the hood for the radiator, maybe that isn't finished yet?

[keys2heaven]

Rodney,

Can you keep the honeycomb grill in the front? I just like that look.

[shinn497]

AMAZING I'm puting it on my fb immediately.

[slopoke]

I'll be honest, I didn't like it at first (a bit too cartoonish), but with the recent changes I think you've got a winner. This IS HoF! Thanks Rodney! ( It now is the background on my newest laptop)

[dclin]

Rodney, I hope you don't mind another cook joining the fray. :)

Just made some changes to the fascia; it still looks a little 2D for me, seems to lack a little bit of depth.

I pushed back the fascia a bit to enhance depth. One of beautiful things I love about your design is that the black fascias, front, side, and back seem to be inset in all the other renderings. These design elements gave the design a sense of depth, and further gave me the feeling that only the most barest, most essential panels that actually had to be on the car (the colored portions) were there. The blacked out portions seem to reveal the 'frame' of the car, and gives me the same feeling that a 'street fighter' style motorcycle would. The latest screen shot seem to have the front fascia flush with the bodywork, and so I lost some of that feeling. Did you flush it to give others the option to paint the black parts, 'body' color too?

I also enlarged the side ducts and tried to incorporate the etch design you had on the fascia (I'm guessing you had them there to break up all the smooth piece of fascia?), but I envision the etch design to be a scallop that leads into the enlarged duct, to add even more depth/detail. I don't have the skills to do lighting to define the scallops and the enlarged ducts, so I'll hope you understand what I'm trying to show. I tried to be mindful of the existing lines, so tried to keep the flow as well as possible.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5893&d=1320736758

[dclin]

Yes, now that I look closely at the rocker panels, I see that you have flushed it as well, I'm guessing in anticipation of people wanting to paint it. I think I see that the rockers are now more like 'sills' that extend out.

If this is your intention, I hope that both options (I guess this is more directed at F5) are available for the customers to choose, since I imagine they are all separate pieces. Painting the black pieces would dramatically change the design character, which I'm sure would do a lot to change the minds of those that still don't like the design. I wouldn't want to deny those that want to of that option, but I don't want to lose the option of retaining the inset, black pieces as well.

[dclin]

How does this design get air to the intercooler and/or ventilate the engine bay?

As was discussed in some other thread, it can pull air from the bottom of the car (or perhaps, one of the side ducts - it would be a bit of ducting and the IC made need to be somewhat repositioned, but not impossible) and exhaust thru the top of the 'trunk' lid - vents would be easy enough to add. 3rd gen RX7 engineers determined that the inlet duct needed only to be around 1/4 of the intercooler core face area to be effective.

Engine bay heat can exit thru the rear fascia panel, perhaps the mesh that is already in place.

[Niburu]

dclin, having owned a 3rd gen RX7 I can say Mazda engineers were way wrong
the one thing FD's suffer from is heat soak in that poorly vented engine bay

[BipDBo]

It's looking really good. Here's my 2 cents:
* One thing that I really like about the new design is that it has lines that seem so flow with the wind, but with some exceptions. I can see the wind flowing smoothly around the curves except at the dent in the hood and the dent in the roof. There, I see turbulence. You would never see such creases, perpendicular to the flow path on an eagle or shark. The dent on the roof, I would just delete. It looks stupid. The dent on the hood, has some style, but would flow with the car if it was a radiator discharge. Now that I have made this point with fashion, I'll make it with function. The air will enter through the intake, and need to go somewhere. The only place you have for it to go right now is under the car, which will create uplift on the already lightly loaded front wheels. That air needs to be directed upward.
* As far as the roof goes, what you have rendered looks like a slick ragtop, stretch over the roll bar, except for the odd looking dent. I know that you originally drew a coupe, but you may want to consider this as a roadster. A soft top would be lighter, cheaper and much easier to stow awy than a targa. One possibility, is to extend a piece of tube steel from each upper corner of the roll bar to the corner of the windshield. This creates a full cage that provides more protection while stiffening the chassis. The soft top can be stretched over it, just like on a Jeep. No need for heavy, expensive roll up windows. They can be monofilm like the Jeep and first Viper.
* The doors are still a little too low IMO. I would stretch them up a bit while still keeping their curve.
* This is a big departure from what you currently have, but my vote is still to have the headlights "down in the black." I thought this was an original idea. It looked like eyes under a strong blow. The new headlights are just very conventional, and in practice will probably get cheap looking plastic covers. The way it is drawn right now, you are extending the black plastic up unnaturally higher than its function by inventing some purposeless quadrilateral shape. You want to preserve it, because its an original element. If it include the headlights, it won't be unnaturally high.
* You show the roll squezzed inward along the seat headrests. The FFR prototype chassis has the rollbar going straight up. Your modification may be just fine, but it is probably wise to coordinate with FFR to see before proceeding further.
* The back of the car needs air for the following purposes: Intercooler, cold air combustion intake and cooling for the rear brakes. he only air intake you have for the rear of the car are in front of the rear wheels. Considering the length of ductwork needed to get to the places where the air is needed, these intakes may be on the small side.
* Jim's design isn't the best looking, but it has many components with logical function. One of these is a perforated grill on the back of the car over the engine. This is common for mid engine cars. It allows convection to cause airflow over the engine, reducing temperatures in the engine bay. I would replace the sloped rear glass with a vertical piece, and put a grill just behind the glass. It is probably best to keep the ducting of the intercooler separate from the rest of the engine bay, and to duct it in reverse, up flow. The front portion of the grill could relief engine bay hot air. The rear portion of the grill could relieve intercooler air.
* I've made this point before, but please render it with stock WRX wheels at the specified track width. You can show 2 renders; one with stock wheels, and one with whatever wheels you want. I just want to know that it will look decent with the stock wheels.

[DrieStone]

Rodney I really thought your original design was the best of the bunch, and like others I thought the front end needed some work. The other designs (especially the FFR model) are too safe. When people talk about HoF, this is the only one that does it for me. You really nailed it with this redesign. As for these small details, that's what they are.

I'm with you, I don't see the "dune buggy" look, and frankly I'm not worried at all with the "toy" influences, I think those are benefits, not detriments. You can't please all the people all the time, and there are going to be a number of people that hate your design.

I'm crossing my fingers in the hope that FFR decide to take this to full-scale.

[16g-95gsx]

Mount the radiator in the front at an angle similar to te rake of the windshield. Allow the hood to have a vent. Put a small amount of vents in the rear to help with natural convection as well as sucking of air from the engine bay while moving.

[keys2heaven]

Rodney I really thought your original design was the best of the bunch, and like others I thought the front end needed some work. The other designs (especially the FFR model) are too safe. When people talk about HoF, this is the only one that does it for me. You really nailed it with this redesign. As for these small details, that's what they are.

I'm with you, I don't see the "dune buggy" look, and frankly I'm not worried at all with the "toy" influences, I think those are benefits, not detriments. You can't please all the people all the time, and there are going to be a number of people that hate your design.

I'm crossing my fingers in the hope that FFR decide to take this to full-scale.

Well, Rodney came in 2nd and Jim's does leave a lot to be desired at this point. I hope my gut is correct in telling me that FFR is not going to pick/finalize an initial body style that has received copious amounts of criticism over version 2 of a WINNING design that now has converted a number of people into the HoF camp. :) This doesn't mean Jim is a bad designer (he's not) and it's nothing personal. I feel like I needed to say that. I wish I knew a lot more about car design so that I could give potentially valuable input to Jim's design. However, the only thing that I can opine is whether or not I could see myself building and driving a particular design. Simply put, I would love to burn some serious rubber driving Rodney's design. Let me near a Camaro with it!

Dave indicated in another post that they hope to go into production on this in 2012. So, would I be safe in thinking that the decision making on what initial body (or bodies) that will constitute the 818 will have to be wrapped up in the next month or so?

If they start with a roadster, then I think Rodney's is the way to go.

[BipDBo]

I think what is really cool about this car is that Rodney has been so receptive of input and criticism. Everyone who entered fantasized about winning and seeing their car go into production. Rodney's openeness and willingness to make drastic changes says a lot about him, but it also makes for a design that everyone who has commented can feel some sense of ownership of, even in a small way.

If the 818 is to have multiple bodies, I would like to see this process occur with the other designs as well.

[vozproto]

Rodney,

I'm not familiar with the cad program you are using. (which is it by the way?)
I am used to solidworks and know that there is a free viewer that you can output models for the purposes of allowing folks to look, spin, rotate the model for different views and to take measurements.

Is there something like this as far as what you are working with?
And would you be comfortable sharing that? Would be cool to be able to rotate and spin the model into 'real-life' angles 360-degrees.

[flyboy2160]

it looks like the nose now has an overhang comparable to the other designs. i don't like it and much prefer the brutally short old overhang.

[Hiryu]

Rodney,

I'm not familiar with the cad program you are using. (which is it by the way?)
I am used to solidworks and know that there is a free viewer that you can output models for the purposes of allowing folks to look, spin, rotate the model for different views and to take measurements.

Is there something like this as far as what you are working with?
And would you be comfortable sharing that? Would be cool to be able to rotate and spin the model into 'real-life' angles 360-degrees.


it looks like 3D Studio Max, which is probably less of a CAD design program than a 3D tool usually used for creating models and movies for computer animations and video games (I use Maya, which is similar).

If Rodney gives out the model, I'd be happy to get a copy.

As for the model, I'd tell Rodney to focus on the looks (though I think it looks fine as is) and let Dave and the boys worry about the functionality if (and hopefully when) they start moving forward with it. They did seem to--after all--not seem to care much about the selected winners' adherence to technical issues.

Again, I love this design and is the first one that is really making me excited for this project. A fantastic evolution, Rodney.

Mike

[flyboy2160]

5895

the side view of the original blue car in the video with the really short front overhang reminded me of the beautiful peugeot 905. i doubt if the new nose will be as nice in the side view. since this car isn't built to bumper or to pedestrian nanny state regulations, i'd like that emphasized to set the car apart from 'regulated' designs.

[dclin]

dclin, having owned a 3rd gen RX7 I can say Mazda engineers were way wrong
the one thing FD's suffer from is heat soak in that poorly vented engine bay

I was referring to the inlet side; I mean that one doesn't need a huge airscoop to move adequate air thru the IC. I think it's more important that there is a way for the heated air to escape.

As you are aware, there are a lot of problems with the packaging with the 3rd gen. Doesn't help that the stock IC sits right in front of the engine, inside the engine bay itself (with no vent, as you said). Nothing generates heat quite like a rotary either.

If the 818 has an exit duct, or at least an easy path for the air to flow out (which I would envision to be the vent on 'trunk lid'), it should be fine.

[mattster03]

dclin, having owned a 3rd gen RX7 I can say Mazda engineers were way wrong
the one thing FD's suffer from is heat soak in that poorly vented engine bay

It also suffered from the rotary engine ;)

[dclin]

It also suffered from the rotary engine ;)

wow. :D

[Oppenheimer]

it looks like the nose now has an overhang comparable to the other designs. i don't like it and much prefer the brutally short old overhang.

Someone just posted a pic for an idea of a longer front overhang, just as an excercise. A lot of the pics in this thread are of people that aren't Rodney expressing their ideas in picture = 1k words. Rodney is working on incorporating the ideas he likes, and will post an update once he's done.

[Niburu]

It also suffered from the rotary engine ;)
not from my experience
(FD and 2 FC's - never had any engine related issues)

[Eclipsor00]

http://rodneyolmos.com/factoryfive/v2/images/2.jpg

Posting the rear 3/4 shot again, just so that I can look at it on the same page as the Hennessy

Mother of god, I would build this in a heart beat. FF can take my cash now and let me know when they are ready if that was what would be built.

[Flamshackle]

Hey Rodney, any update on when we will see this on your unity player? (3d viewer)
5967

I can hardly wait! Love the original and the new direction on the front end. Keep up the amazing work :D

[Draco-REX]

It's funny... I love black. It's my favorite color (or non-color). My STI is black. My tow vehicle is black. My trailer is black. I'm thinking of painting my WRX black to match the tow vehicle and trailer. My clothes are black. My computer is black. My furniture is black. etc. But Rodney's cars are so stunning in contrasting colors that I'm seriously considering going way out of my comfort zone and going with some wild color. Like Lamborghini orange or green.

I think the 818 is driving me insane.

[bbjones121]

Rodey used black plastic and I love the use of it. Something I will be looking into if this is the final design is making those black plastic pieces carbon fiber. If it was done right, I think that would give it a final touch telling people I am a $100k+ sports car, not a $16k kit.

[bromikl]

I love black. It's my favorite color. My STI is black. My tow vehicle is black. My trailer is black. My clothes are black. My computer is black. My furniture is black.

I think the 818 is driving me insane.

I think the 818 has nothing to do with it. :D

[RodneyO]

Haven't had much time to work on this. Here are some updates, things are moving along.

Things fixed so far:

This are correct scale 17" rims
215/40/17 Front
255/40/17 Rear
(I'm using this model for those individuals that want to fit a bigger tire. Here is a little tool that can help you figure out sizes on inches and such.
http://www.rimsntires.com/specs.jsp

Width of the Car is 68"
Length is 151"
Height at its highest point is 47"
Height on the furthest back area is 30"
and it curves up to 36" on the rear side bumpers
Door Length at its longest its 52"
Door Height at its lowest is 27"
Door Height at its Highest is 31.5"
Front Bumper lowest point on the Hood area is 17"
Nose Length from the Fender Hole is 14"
Size of large round taillights on the back is 5" (red area) 7" Housing (Black area)
Size of small round taillights on the back is 3.75" (red area) 5" Housing (Black area) 2.2" (Backup Lights)

Now here is the kicker'
Cabin width from where the window sits at is 51.5" Wide , now just for comparison I have a little mazda mx-3 which is surprisingly similar in some areas. the Width from window to window is 57" so If you get a chance to get inside an MX-3 that will give you an idea of what you are sitting inside of. There is room to make the cabin wider and I don't feel that It would affect the design very much. Any one know how wide Miatas are inside the cabin?

I'll post pics on the next post.

[RodneyO]

http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/V3_5.jpg
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/V3_6.jpg
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/V3_7.jpg
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/V3_8.jpg
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/V3_9.jpg
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/V3_10.jpg
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/V3_11.jpg

[RodneyO]

http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/V3_12.jpg
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/V3_13.jpg
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/V3_14.jpg
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/V3_15.jpg
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/V3_16.jpg
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/V3_17.jpg
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/V3_18.jpg

[RodneyO]

http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/V3_19.jpg
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/V3_20.jpg
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/V3_21.jpg
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/V3_22.jpg

[Nelff]

Awesome!!!!

[Flashburn]

Stunning. I like the color schemes.

[Draco-REX]

*sniff sniff* Something's burning... Is it hot in here?

[mekeys]

Looking better and better..But there is still too much black area on the front and rear in my opinion..(it's just me)..

Mel

[RonSchofield]

Rodney,

I like the change in position of the side view mirrors. I don't like the vents in the front and back of the side doors. It makes the look like the fenders are "add ons" and not part of the original car. It also breaks up the flow of the curves to have these type of vents. It was much better when the rear lower scoop was blended into the body. It flowed much better. If the rad is up front, the hood needs to have an opening in it to work with the aerodynamics. The recess in the hood will cause a disrupted air flow that would be solved by adding air flow from an opening in the recess.

It still looks good though, but the addition of the vents has pushed my desire back to the point where I would have to think hard about purchasing.

Ron

[Draco-REX]

OK, couple quick thoughts:

I see you lost the hood vent. I guess you don't like them, that's cool. Routing the hot air from the radiator around the foot boxes to the fender for extraction works also. THough personally, I like hood vents.

The rear tailpipes are now out of place. I think simple pipes in the same location would work. Or if you want, you can pull a Ferrari California or Lexus IS-F and make exhaust "tips" in the gap between the outer body and diffuser that would match the brake-inlets at the front.

The rims have super low offsets. If the track width is correct, then the rims will have much higher offsets, making the spokes nearly flush with the rims. Low offset rims will require fender flares. This is an observation, not a complaint. However, this does mean that if these wheels are at teh proper track width, then you can nudge the fenders out a touch.

Some 1st gen Miata comparisons:
A "stock" Venom is 1.6" shorter in height
The same width
5" shorter in overall length
350lbs lighter
96hp more powerful
Also it has a 5.8" longer wheelbase

I can't find interior dimensions of the Miata.

[PhyrraM]

Another critical dimension that I believe that FFR must hold to in order to be registerable in all 50 states (and some other countries?) is to have the centerline of the headlights at or above 24".

Looks good. I applaude you for all of your efforts...definately over and above. Thanks.

[DrieStone]

Another critical dimension that I believe that FFR must hold to in order to be registerable in all 50 states (and some other countries?) is to have the centerline of the headlights at or above 24".

I know Lotus had this problem with the Elise, I don't remember the specifics, but they were allowed to sell the car in the US as long as owners signed a waiver (although that may have been bumper height/strength). I know the Delorean and '80s Esprit (same rolling chassis) had to be fitted with taller springs in the US to be sold here. As you would imagine, a lot of owners swapped to European spec springs after purchase.

[RodneyO]

The hood vent is going back, that was painted and was never built in 3d, so it's on my list.
The square pipes are going to have be an upgrade, they are not practical but Im still going to design with them in mind.

I wasn't worrying about the offsets visually, but the tires are placed correctly, those are not real rims anyways, just thought my efforts could be better used on other areas that need attention.
One thing is going to keep happening until I get real measurements from FFR on the chassis, it is all guess work on where the vents sit at, piping, mounting points, etc. But I think I'm just going to let the experts worry about it. (meaning FFR )


The side vents are a curiosity experiment wanted to see how people reacted towards it.
Thanks for the feedback guys :)

[PhyrraM]

The side vents are a curiosity experiment wanted to see how people reacted towards it.

I've been holding off on specific comments because I feel its getting a little ticky-tacky and tedious reading through it all for minor details. But, since you asked specifically....I like the door vents. It accomplishes something Jim said he might need techically for panel alignment, it provides a bit under-hood pressure relief and engine/intercooler airflow, and it gives a mucsular feel to the sides.

[RonSchofield]

Rodney,

One other thought/suggestion. What would it look like to have the tail lights fully visible?

[kitcarj]

The side vents are a curiosity experiment wanted to see how people reacted towards it.
Thanks for the feedback guys :)
I have mixed feelings because I like the front vents but I really liked the version where the black section made an uptick behind the door instead of the older curve (frown) on the side like in these pictures.

This design is still my favorite but of course I haven't seen a side view except for someone's quick attempt at making one for you.

6100

[GUNS]

Rodney I love it. I agree with some of the comments on the changes, but it's good to see you experimenting AND sharing other ideas. One thing I noticed is that it appears that the front lip is not as low as the side panels. Is this intentional? It looks a little off.

Thanks again for the updates, I'll take 2!

[kitcarj]

Beautiful computer work with great detail!

[RM1SepEx]

Why is the hood so high? It doesn't look mid engined...

[olpro]

The minimum legal headlamp height is 22" in California. Other states may have other standards.
Very nice work by the way.

[Doc_FFR]

Length = 151"
Width = 68"
So it's about 6 inches shorter than the current Miata (MX-5) and just as wide.
My Wookiees, we may not look very cool alongside this car.
Was there ever any hope to fit more than a pizza box in the trunk? Not that any of the entries (or any miata sized car) had much hope anyhow.

[Psay]

To me it has lost some of its wow factor, the front air intake to the radiator appears to have more of a rounded top than before and it sort of looks like a mouth and dare I say it 'has a cartoon look'. The front side vent is okay and as said previously will probably ease manufacture and door alignment, however, I preferred the uptick vent behind the door in the black section. The uptick made it look aggressive it now looks a little dopey!

The car looks great but the rear just doesn't quite look right. I much preffered the mesh rear.

Don't get me wrong I still like the car and you are doing a fantastic job. You asked for feedback and I am just giving an honest opinion.

61056106

[kach22i]

Height at its highest point is 47"
You couldn't make it 48" just for me?;)

http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile/
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile/Modified-kach22i-V3_10.jpg

Overall I like the changes, miss the hood vent, but you don't need it now anyway.

The SEMA video mentions air being drawn out the back to supply intercooler air flow, in which intake air is fed though the rear humps behind people's heads? Not only do you need a large area exit, you need some intakes too.

Below is how I had planned to feed air back there, you can do the same - similar arch behind driver/passenger.
http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Industrial%20Design/#!cpZZ4QQtppZZ20
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Industrial%20Design/WEB-SCHEME8-TOP.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Industrial%20Design/WEB-SCHEME8-SIDE.jpg

EDIT-1: The guy which did 17 designs (all red) based on a modular system also had a similar solution for several of his schemes.

[bromikl]

Outstanding! I love it! It's looking much more like a production car. (And sadly, less like the soft-filtered Napalm Orange dream-scape which is my desktop background picture.) Thank you for keeping the 'angry eyes' in the back.

I'm trying to remember the blue model. Didn't it have intercooler/engine compartment air inlets outboard the roll bar hoops? I thought that was very clever - using the change in panel color to hide the intake.

I'm really glad you're taking production limitations into account as you re-design. Aesthetically to me, the addition of the fins inside the side vents seem out of place. (I don't particularly care for them on the original Venom, either.) I understand the fins let the observer know that that's how the door is supposed to fit. Call it aesthetic preference -- I prefer the rear intake from the update on 11/02. And even though we didn't have a 3D render, I imagined the front vent was similar.

I'm looking forward to seeing the return of the hood vent. With the top on, the rear deck has a huge low-pressure area for venting the engine compartment; or if you prefer, the screen in the tail looked very good. Love the rear diffuser.

Can't wait to see what happens next! Cheers!

[kach22i]

the rear deck has a huge low-pressure area for venting the engine compartment;..............
A top view or birds eye view starting towards the rear might help in adding more suggestions.

[Draco-REX]

To me it has lost some of its wow factor, the front air intake to the radiator appears to have more of a rounded top than before and it sort of looks like a mouth and dare I say it 'has a cartoon look'. The front side vent is okay and as said previously will probably ease manufacture and door alignment, however, I preferred the uptick vent behind the door in the black section. The uptick made it look aggressive it now looks a little dopey!

The car looks great but the rear just doesn't quite look right. I much preffered the mesh rear.

Don't get me wrong I still like the car and you are doing a fantastic job. You asked for feedback and I am just giving an honest opinion.

61056106

I think the area above the "F5" on the new rear is supposed to be mesh. I'll bet mesh isn't easy to render in 3D CAD software.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6105&d=1321256022

I think the headlight height is fine. If the tire is 26", then the low beams look like they're at 23" or so. The regulation on headlight height might only apply to fully manufactured cars, not kit cars. Kit cars can get away with a lot that regular cars can't. That's why when you buy an Ariel Atom the car shows up on one pallet and the powertrain shows up on another.

Rodney: Ok. Good to know the rims are visual only.

I preferred the lower, more built-out rear vents from the drawing and the first render you posted. I preferred the shape and the lines in the quarter panel which made them look more intentional. Also, they made the black element along the side of the car look like it was there to help channel air. The current design makes the black side elements look like they're there just for the looks.

*Love* the clamshell lid for the engine. Does the front do the same for access to the fluids and what little storage space will be left? Nothing looks cooler at a car show than a car with half it's body up in the air to show it guts. "I'm not hiding half of what makes me tick. I'm proud of it." Additionally, clamshells front and rear would make suspension adjustments MUCH MUCH easier.

As above, I noticed that the front lip is higher than the side sills which looks a little odd. It might work better to extend the front fascia down to the same level as the side sills, or raise the bottom edge of the side sills to match the front fascia. Then the lip would attach to the bottom of the fascia and hang a touch lower. This would let the lip be an optional add-on. You could also design side sill extensions to resemble the front lip which would carry the look around the car while also making it look lower. Again, they'd be optional add-ons.

It's nice to know the hood vent isn't gone for good. The concave depression in the hood is a beautiful design element and the shape of the hood around it is perfect to make it into a vent, as it would essentially be an organic gurney flap.

The front fender vents, as mentioned above, do fix a possible fitment issue. I was thinking that just overlapping would address the fitment issue and bring the sides more in line with your original image. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that an overlap would just make it look like an even worse fitment issue. So I'm not sure what to do there if you can't count on the door gaps to be even. I just don't have a better recommendation. All I can say is it might be good to adjust the lines around the vent to make it look more like a vent that was put there than just an bowing out of the fender. It's just tough because it has to run up the whole height of the door. The good news, if any, is that Jim wasn't concerned with the fitment of the rear of the door, just the front. He might feel that the door could be shifted forward to fit the rear gaps leaving the front to hide behind the fenders. I just wish I had a better idea. I've got tons of ideas for other stuff, but this one is stumping me.

[Niburu]

Rodney hopefully you'll get some feedback from the one person here whose opinion actually matters, wether you or Mr smith care to share is up to you all.

[Oppenheimer]

Wow, looking great.

Side vents, I could go either way here. I like how the body flowed more and seemed more organic before, but the vents look cool and if they solve the door fit issue... I like how the rocker still has some of the curve, like how you kept that, but toned it done.

I really like how the taillight eyebrows are angled now, instead of straight across, big improvment. Same between the eyebrows, how there is now an arc in the body under where it says Venom, instead of straight across.

I also really like the rest of the changes you made to the rear. the whole diffuser thing. I'm hoping that area above the F5 is mesh as someone else suspected. I think that would look great. But the 'bumper' area, the large black area under Venom, its too much plain black bumper. Needs something to liven it up. Maybe just a depression for a lic plate would be enough (keep in mind Euro plate sizes, world car and all that - maybe make different versions of this piece for each market)

Looking forward to the hood vent 'returning'. Not a fan of the rear wing, but I assume that would be easy enough to make optional. I'm glad to see panel part lines, shows you are making effort to make it manufacturable per FFR no-paint panels, etc.

I would like to see a roof = body color option. Someone posted a mock-up of that, and I really like it. Want to see how well it looks in 3d.

I am worried about interior space (width). Did I understand properly, if I sit in an Mx-3, I need to imagine 6 inches narrower to get an idea of space?

[GUNS]

The interior width probably won't be much different than Elise, which is pretty much shoulder to shoulder. It's not an issue until you turn to look at the person next to you and they are right there. It's kind of funny actually.

[Niburu]

The interior width probably won't be much different than Elise, which is pretty much shoulder to shoulder. It's not an issue until you turn to look at the person next to you and they are right there. It's kind of funny actually.
depending on the company, I'm really not seeing this as a problem

[bbjones121]

depending on the company, I'm really not seeing this as a problem

^+1

[Draco-REX]

The interior width probably won't be much different than Elise, which is pretty much shoulder to shoulder. It's not an issue until you turn to look at the person next to you and they are right there. It's kind of funny actually.
My passengers should be too scared and too white-knuckled to look anywhere but straight ahead. ;)

[scartaan]

Rodney- I like all your changes except for the extension of the doors into the "black". Post#327 by Kach shows the chassis frame behind and the lack of need to deepen the door. As far as the need for room for a wind down window, I would rather a type 65 coupe approach with sliding Lexan or glass that is removable ,especially for the roadster version to keep costs down.

[Dave Smith]

I am impressed beyond words with the efforts and feedback here. I have my own thoughts on this design but think it is the most unique and different. At this time I am seriously considering a newer scale model and more study as the hard-top/removable/targe design that is needed as one of a trifecta of body shapes.

[Rock44]

The side vents are a curiosity experiment wanted to see how people reacted towards it.
Thanks for the feedback guys :)

The previous side vents are much better. I really liked the squared off rocker and flared vents, it's part of what really drew me to the design.

[D2W]

Dave, why can't the initial roadster release have provisions to add a targa top of some sort later. Or are you envisioning the roadster being a true roadster without provisions for a top or side windows, and the hardtop/targa design more advanced with side windows ect.

PS. I think if you do a second scale model of Rodney's design, get together with him beforehand and add all the changes to make it fit the chassis and anything else that needs to be done to make it manufacturable.

[ElderDragon]

Having this design as the targa/removable hard top design would be an awesome idea! Then with the roadster as one of the other designs that are less aggressive you can satisfy both camps.

[Nelff]

I like the vent at the door line, always have...

[dclin]

The hood vent is going back, that was painted and was never built in 3d, so it's on my list.
The square pipes are going to have be an upgrade, they are not practical but Im still going to design with them in mind.

I wasn't worrying about the offsets visually, but the tires are placed correctly, those are not real rims anyways, just thought my efforts could be better used on other areas that need attention.
One thing is going to keep happening until I get real measurements from FFR on the chassis, it is all guess work on where the vents sit at, piping, mounting points, etc. But I think I'm just going to let the experts worry about it. (meaning FFR )


The side vents are a curiosity experiment wanted to see how people reacted towards it.
Thanks for the feedback guys :)

Thanks for your work Rodney! I prefer without the new side vents. If F5 REALLY, REALLY has to have a side vent on the front fender for door fitment issues, I could live with the front, but the back vent really broke up the flow IMHO.

I say keep it at this, and add subtle, rear upper fender vents ala Vman if the extra venting is really required (I'm pretty sure the lower vents in this image should be enough though). I could even live with the straight sill, as is, and do without the original curved rocker :

http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/VenomFront2b.jpg

I agree with a previous poster - could you lower the front 'hood' height just a little? I think it would accentuate the front fender arches, and make the design a little sleeker up front.

[ElderDragon]

I agree with others that the side vents really break up the surface flow and I prefer it with the flared fender vent from the earlier design. Between the two vents of this current experiment, the front vent is the better looking of the two and makes me think of some aggressive cars which I cannot remember the name of right now.

[GunnerG]

Having this design as the targa/removable hard top design would be an awesome idea! Then with the roadster as one of the other designs that are less aggressive you can satisfy both camps.

Yes indeedy that sounds like an awesome idea. Launch the next FFR icon with one of the designs that pulled down a stellar 16%, 14%, 4%, 3%, or maybe 1% in the most recent forum poll. I think that idea will be so awesome it will be selected for case study in Harvards MBA program. I'm sure they will point out how it was such a cunning move for FFR to ignore for initial launch the ONE design "all versions" that garnered almost 75% of the vote. A really really awesome idea. You're playing with us , right?

[olpro]

Now we have people quoting one of these polls as if it was actually valid?
I suppose it is possible to do a fairly scientific poll if the conditions are controlled and the multitude of variables is dealt with. I would still hate it and any validity it might have would be severely limited.
Here is a simple proposal… think of the great cars that everybody wants to emulate with their new products. You know the ones I mean - the ones that started the hair-on-fire stuff in the first place. Do you think they (Ferrari, McLaren, Lambo, etc.) based their design decisions on some rinky dink poll? Was that how they got to where they are?

[dclin]

....
I'm trying to remember the blue model. Didn't it have intercooler/engine compartment air inlets outboard the roll bar hoops? I thought that was very clever - using the change in panel color to hide the intake.

...

I can't believe I missed that! It could be even slightly more aggressive, and still not stick out like a sore thumb. That should make IC air duct plumbing that much more simpler. Great job!

[DrieStone]

Now we have people quoting one of these polls as if it was actually valid?
I suppose it is possible to do a fairly scientific poll if the conditions are controlled and the multitude of variables is dealt with. I would still hate it and any validity it might have would be severely limited.
Here is a simple proposal… think of the great cars that everybody wants to emulate with their new products. You know the ones I mean - the ones that started the hair-on-fire stuff in the first place. Do you think they (Ferrari, McLaren, Lambo, etc.) based their design decisions on some rinky dink poll? Was that how they got to where they are?

Apple never, ever conducted focus groups our surveys. They built the products that they wanted to use. Look at the iPod, iPhone, and Mac. You may not love the design or company, but there is no denying the emotional reaction to their products. In the end, they took some bold risks, but held their ground. They shipped computers without floppy drives before anyone else, and now they are doing the same with optical media. Of course they also resisted (and still do in a way) multi-button mice.

There is an excellent TED talk on the Pardox of choice that is worth watching because I think it pertains to a lot of this. http://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz_on_the_paradox_of_choice.html

[shinn497]

I am impressed beyond words with the efforts and feedback here. I have my own thoughts on this design but think it is the most unique and different. At this time I am seriously considering a newer scale model and more study as the hard-top/removable/targe design that is needed as one of a trifecta of body shapes. A scale model of what? Olmos?

[Psay]

Now we have people quoting one of these polls as if it was actually valid?
I suppose it is possible to do a fairly scientific poll if the conditions are controlled and the multitude of variables is dealt with. I would still hate it and any validity it might have would be severely limited.
Here is a simple proposal… think of the great cars that everybody wants to emulate with their new products. You know the ones I mean - the ones that started the hair-on-fire stuff in the first place. Do you think they (Ferrari, McLaren, Lambo, etc.) based their design decisions on some rinky dink poll? Was that how they got to where they are?

Ferrari, McLaren, Lambo etc. don't have a direct forum with their customers at the design stage as they are multi billion companys with marketing departments who do this work by speaking to customers directly, getting them into a room and bounce ideas off them etc. How do I know this? Well I have, and still do work for some of the big names in the Automotive world, infact I have worked for one of the three mentioned.

A car is a very complex piece of engineering and the cost to take it from a clean piece of paper to rolling off the production line is vast. Any company not getting input from customers is insane.

[DrieStone]

Any company not getting input from customers is insane.

See my comment above (re Apple). That's not to say that every company should ignore customer input, and with a company the size of FFR, and its very "open" policies it seems natural that the community can perhaps sway certain decisions.

The real difficult part is being able to stand your ground and do what you think is best for the project even if the community doesn't agree.

Dave's earlier comment gives be hope that perhaps Rodney's design might sway the direction of the project.

[keys2heaven]

See my comment above (re Apple). That's not to say that every company should ignore customer input, and with a company the size of FFR, and its very "open" policies it seems natural that the community can perhaps sway certain decisions.

The real difficult part is being able to stand your ground and do what you think is best for the project even if the community doesn't agree.

Dave's earlier comment gives be hope that perhaps Rodney's design might sway the direction of the project.

I hope we know more from Dave/FF soon. They don't have much time to finalize a body if they want to start production/shipping in 2012.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Now here is the kicker'
Cabin width from where the window sits at is 51.5" ...Any one know how wide Miatas are inside the cabin?


I found Miata shoulder room listed as 53.2"

Checking my FFR roadster it is 56" inside of door to inside of door below the cockpit opening and 51" at the roll over.

Jeff

[riptide motorsport]

Most of you are tto young to remeber the Edsel and the lesson Ford learned from producing a car that the public thought they wanted.

[ElderDragon]

GunnerG,
I think you misuunderstood my post which is partially my fault as I did not include enough specifics.

I was saying that Dave's suggestion that the Orange Olmos (which along with Whetstone is by far my favorite of the models that have a chance) be built as the targa/hard top variant with another highly popular design (Xabier, Whetstone or VMan) as the roadster made excellent sense because there definitely seem to be some people who strongly prefer one of those two styles and in this way almost everyone will be satisfied (with the later high mileage design as the third body). I was not referring to Jim's design or Nouphone's which you correctly assert (if I am reading your message right) do not seem to have extensive popular support on this forum.

[Oppenheimer]

The problem FFR curently faces, is that there are several body designs which are popular right now (Olmos, Vman, SW1, Xabier), yet none of them lend themselves to ultra lightweight/inexpensive Roadster. They would all make excellent Targa's. They could even make the roof panel optional. But that added bulk, the weight plus cost, of all that stuff behind the drivers heads, is working against their plan of release 1 = light, cheap Roadster.

So now you can kinda see where they were going with Jim's design, and why they seem to have been pushing it, even ahead of these other popular designs.

Dave realizes they can't put the genie back in the bottle, get us to forget these popular models and accept Jim's (yet to be revised version) as Roadster model 1. So now it seems he is trying to figure out how to make one of these popular designs light enough, and cheap enough, to be the Roadster.

[Niburu]

What about this version with the new front fascia on it?
Would it not meet the criteria?


http://rodneyolmos.com/factoryfive/v2/images/2.jpg

[ElderDragon]

I would think Whetstone's or Xabier's design have the simplicity of form to work well as lightweight, inexpensive roadsters and they are popular.

[PhyrraM]

I don't see the Roadster or Targa or Coupe thing as a big deal.

Knowing that FFR is targeting smaller panels for the the goal of no paint using gel-coat, I can see almost any of the proposed designs easily going both ways. All it takes is making the "flat" portion of the rear deck as a seperate piece. Then offering a flat roadster version, a hooped Targa version, and a closed coupe version of the rear deck "insert". Many of the proposals in the gallery actually propose this.

Even if your not talking about replaceable panels, any car currently drawn as a coupe can likely be converted to a Roadster by simply "flattening" the rear deck, like illistrated on Rodney's car above.

[GunnerG]

What about this version with the new front fascia on it?
Would it not meet the criteria?


http://rodneyolmos.com/factoryfive/v2/images/2.jpg


Beats all the others by a factor of 10

[BipDBo]

I think that the different versions (coupe, roadster and track) will be very different under the skin. This is one of Dave's posts:
"I think Jim did a nice job of reviewing the running gear and current layout plans that seem to work best (and do affect body shape/design). That being said, we've been quite deliberate in the presentation of the project and the nodes at which we've asked for help. I really am confident that the car's basic chassis and running gear combos will deliver phenomenal performance and ease of build. I am also committed to the three purposed chassis, namely an affordable roadster (launched first), a track model, and a super sleek low CofD/frontal area coupe that is a build-it-yourself hyper-mpg car. Now that the dust is settling we have to decide, refine, deliver a body that will elicit a HoF response. I am tossing around several paths here on this MOST IMPORTANT part of the project. I am seriously open to any ideas you guys have on body design/shapes, but in the end I think I'll protect the team and take responsibility for the final call myself. "

Notice he said "three pposed chassis." He didn't say, "three purposed bodies." My gues is that they will design the coupe chassi with a cage / roof structure, and the track chassis without doors or a roof and with a semi-cage like their challenge car.

I'm not interested in a targa. Thay are problematic enough when they come from a major manufacturer, and there's too much rain in Florida to deal with that. I'd rather have the best of both worlds between coupe and roadster: a hard top with a sunroof or a cage structure with a pull-over soft top like a Jeep.

[Oppenheimer]

...All it takes is making the "flat" portion of the rear deck as a seperate piece. Then offering a flat roadster version, a hooped Targa version, and a closed coupe version of the rear deck "insert". Many of the proposals in the gallery actually propose this.

Even if your not talking about replaceable panels, any car currently drawn as a coupe can likely be converted to a Roadster by simply "flattening" the rear deck, like illistrated on Rodney's car above.

Yes, I proposed this very thing from the start, many times, before the contest started. Its just that most of the current popular designs don't lend themselves to flattening the rear deck. Rodneys surprisingly does, as shown. The others, maybe its just my lack of vision, I don't think they'd look good at all as a flat-deck Roadster (Vman, Xabier, SW1, etc).

[BipDBo]

Rodney, Can you show a render with a six foot male standing next to it? Your design looks aggressive, but the 818 is going to be a small car, about the size of a Miata. Is it going to draw comments like, "Awww, Isn't that cute? That little car is trying to look tough!"

Such a comment may actually be welcome though, because it would be followed by the irony of killing the other guy off the line.

[Oppenheimer]

I think that the different versions (coupe, roadster and track) will be very different under the skin. ....Notice he said "three pposed chassis." He didn't say, "three purposed bodies." My gues is that they will design the coupe chassi with a cage / roof structure, and the track chassis without doors or a roof and with a semi-cage like their challenge car.

Right, frame structure, at least parts of it, will probably be unique per body. I'm imagining most of it will be the same, and the last bits welded on will be one or the other (or the other). But the rest of the stuff, which drivetrain (WRX or TDi), the suspension and brakes (track or street), no reason you couldn't mix n' match those.

Use the track brakes and suspension with your mpg coupe body and frame, but with WRX drivetrain. Or Roadster body with TDi drivetrain. Or whatever. Body needs to match frame to some degree, but the rest of the stuff, and hence the intended 'purpose', your intended purpose, can vary.

I'm personally hoping for Roadster, Coupe, Targa and Race versions of all 3 designs. Rodney has already shown Roadster and Coupe version. Could easily make Targa version of his Coupe (what would his Race version look like?). Xabier has Targa and Race version. Could easily make Coupe version of his Targa.

[mekeys]

I like to think of a fiberglass body as and egg shell you put any design over any chassis and build the chassis structure out to meet the body..Easy..nothing to it..

Mel

[PhyrraM]

If you look at the difference between the Roadster, Spec Roadster, and '65 Coupe chassis you should get a good idea of the respective differences between the eventual Street, Track, and Coupe 818 chassis.

The chassis need to be different for no other reason than to support the proper bodywork and interiors. The chances of two unique body designs being able to share body mount points, even if an effort is made to do so, without comprimising the looks of either is likely very slim. Add in any slight driver, steering wheel, or pedal changes to the body and the whole chassis is likely to need revisions.

Maybe a basic frame (like the prototype) that incoperates bolt-on body mounting brackets? Kinda like OEMs have bolt in crossmembers and supports to accomodate OEM options/changes?

[unclebigbad]

What about this version with the new front fascia on it?
Would it not meet the criteria?


http://rodneyolmos.com/factoryfive/v2/images/2.jpg

This is hot. Hair on fire, shoes melted nomex charred hawt!!

[mekeys]

6182

Whatever happened to this design??I like the rear better than Olmos design..

Mel

[Bobcdn]

http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/VenomFront1.jpg
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/VenomFront2b.jpg

Been following along, but just started posting...

This is by far my favorite design! So please don't take my suggestions as me being critical. I lack the artistry skills but can draw/ see it clearly in my head.

Would like to see the car without the front splitter and a more flowing front like the way the blue cars lower bumper turns in at the bottom. The Agera has a great front end maybe take some ques from it; http://www.koenigsegg.com/ The blue cars panels in front of the wheels look better than the orange cars straight to a point panels. Also the fact that it carries the wheel well flat all the way to the ground makes for a more finished look.

The blue car also has an interesting detailed curve on the top of the quarter that gives the quarter more definition and could give you more options on finishing the rear with a integrated spoiler that continues the quarter detail across the back.

Maybe move the tail lights further out to the corners to give the rear quarters a more definte place to end and it should make the rear end look lower by giving the wider stance.

The side vent on the lower black piece is great but I think it still needs the curver portion into/ or on the bottom of the door.

My preferance would be for a fixed roof coupe. It just makes for a better car. Less wind noise, leaks, its stronger and just looks better. Can you draw it as a fixed roof coupe?

Looking forward to seeing this as a real car!

[Oppenheimer]

Maybe a basic frame (like the prototype) that incoperates bolt-on body mounting brackets? Kinda like OEMs have bolt in crossmembers and supports to accomodate OEM options/changes?

I had always just assummed that was the plan all along for interchangeable bodies. But for race cage, etc, there would have to be more fundamental differences (ie; those bits would be weld-on, not bolt-on).

[shinn497]

Mister Olmos! Since You have the CAD files and are talking Dave/Jim, are you sworn to a NDA or will we still see updates?

[RodneyO]

Mister Olmos! Since You have the CAD files and are talking Dave/Jim, are you sworn to a NDA or will we still see updates?
Hey,
Yes you will see updates as things move along :). Dave has been in contact with me and we have spoken about some of the next steps for this design. From an NDA perspective I'm sure that there are things that will most likely have to be protected just like in any project. I will let FFR take lead on this but my guess is that image updates will not be a problem.

So some of the steps moving forward is to see how the frame matches up. I haven't received the cad files yet but we have talked that images from the front, side, and back will suffice. So we may start with images of the frame and move to Cad somewhere in the process.

Secondary step would be to get a version ready that can be 3d printed. I'm still doing some design adjustments based on feedback and some other stuff that I'm still trying to fix, personally I don't feel this step will take very long. As soon as the actual frame gets involved, there will be some time that will need to applied there.

I'm hoping to be done with all adjustments fairly fast if time permits. I do have a list I started generating and there are still lots of little details that need to get addressed but that's part of the polishing phase as well as being the part that eats up time. I really want to get a 3d file out to FFR as soon as it feels ready.

An earlier question was thrown out about the height of the front Lip spoiler not matching up with the sides; those are part of the to do list adjustments and fixes. As you guys see things that seem off or wacky, send them my way. I have a list I generate as I work, but It's hard to catch all the little details when you are so close to the item.

Below is a quick render from a back angle and some screengrabs of the new hood.
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/v3_side.jpg
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/V3_23.jpg
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/V3_24.jpg
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/V3_25.jpg

[Draco-REX]

Fantastic. Even if you have to stick with the side vents/intakes you have, I'll be proud to own one of those.

Love the hood vent. I was just thinking today that I have had cars with hood scoops for a long time now, so I find it ironic that if I build one of those I'll be looking out over a concave hood. :) And I like how pronounced it is.

Love the black/white rim in the last pic. Don't know if that was intentional or not, but that looks really cool. It also ties in with the two-tone nature of the body. FFR does optional custom rims for their kits, might want to drift that one past Dave's nose. ;) They could do a black powdercoated rim to match the black body elements and then have a removeable body-color plastic insert to go over it.

Please please please push for clamshells front and rear with Dave.

Love it.

[crackedcornish]

sorry, but you're losing me with those fender vents...they just kill the flowing lines at any angle but a straight on side view



things I'd like to see tried out:

orange car nose with the curved rockers from the original blue car...turning into a small vent as it went towards the rear fender would look killer

...and tone down the bulge in the hood a bit please

if you think you need more air flowing into the engine compartment just space the colored body work away from the black a bit at the rear window area


edit to ad pic of blue cars rocker area
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5548&d=1319609841

now if you turned the rear section of the rocker in toward the center of the car starting at the rear edge of the door,then that front lower edge of the 5 sided body piece would become the leading edge of the scoop..I know I did a lousy job of explaining it, but do you follow what I mean?

[Flamshackle]

Oh wow! I am actually going to change my avatar now!

My top three are now etched in as...

1) THIS^^^ Rodney O's mean machine! its left my whole upper body on fire!
2) Xabiers
3) V-mans... still desperately needs a 3 point perspective.

This car of yours though Rodney is LIGHT YEARS ahead for me than the competition.


sorry, but you're losing me with those fender vents...they just kill the flowing lines at any angle but a straight on side view

I totally disagree about the side vents. I am open to the pre vent look but have no probs with this at all. Functional and still good form!

[dclin]

sorry, but you're losing me with those fender vents...they just kill the flowing lines at any angle but a straight on side view



things I'd like to see tried out:

orange car nose with the curved rockers from the original blue car...turning into a small vent as it went towards the rear fender would look killer

...and tone down the bulge in the hood a bit please

if you think you need more air flowing into the engine compartment just space the colored body work away from the black a bit at the rear window area


edit to ad pic of blue cars rocker area
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5548&d=1319609841

now if you turned the rear section of the rocker in toward the center of the car starting at the rear edge of the door,then that front lower edge of the 5 sided body piece would become the leading edge of the scoop..I know I did a lousy job of explaining it, but do you follow what I mean?

I agree with everything said above, other than that I think the lower rocker is fine the way it is - a subtle intake can be integrated with the existing shape. In fact, I think the gradual, down-turn radius is necessary to play on the flared fender areas. A scoop can be part of the 'blacked out' area. By remaining blacked out, it won't stick out as much visually as well.

I have to say I also preferred it when the rockers were inset. With the latest images, they seem more flush with the surrounding body work - I really lost the feel of depth.

I also agree that the bulge in hood (not just the section leading out of the exhaust vent) is a bit too high. Having said that, I think the exhaust vent gap is a little too large. I prefer the more subtle vent on the orange rendering.

[dclin]

I'm still not feeling the side vents as well. If the reason for its inclusion is for the concerns over the door edge finish, I think there is an easy solution, which I mentioned in the door thread.

[kitcarj]

Rodney, I still like it but please:( reconsider doing it like this with the uptick along the bottom behind the door.6218

[dclin]

Rodney, I still like it but please:( reconsider doing it like this with the uptick along the bottom behind the door.6218

Yeah - Rodney, can't we just leave it like this?? I'll take the straight rockers even! Any more changes, I don't recognize the car anymore ! =D

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6218&d=1321591514

[bbjones121]

I agree, don't like side vents, or at least the rear one looks absolutely terrible the front is fine, it gives that Venom look. I understand they are probably to help blend body fitment issues? That is exactly what they look like from a distance, like the car doesn't fit together properly. the rear vents on the orange car look the best by far and they may work with the front one as it is.

[Psay]

Rodney, I still like it but please:( reconsider doing it like this with the uptick along the bottom behind the door.6218

I agree with kitcarj the uptick along the door bottom leading to the intake gave the car a real presence.

[RonSchofield]

I agree with dclin, except for the rear fender vents. Can we not just leave it at this??

Note: I changed the location of the side mirrors.

http://www.f5builds.com/documents/myviper.jpg

Notes:

http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/V3_25.jpg

I like the position of the side mirrors.

I like to hood vent in the latest drawings. With a front rad, it looks and is functional. I like everything about it.

I don't like the front fender openings. They break up the lines of the car and also look like a bad fender kit. They also serve no purpose.

I nope that the front end edges are not going to be as sharp as they are in the latest photo. In the "Orange" photo, they look smooth and flow. Sharp edges don't flow as nice.

http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/V3_23.jpg

The rocker panel treatment with the black just doesn't look right. It makes the car feel weak in the middle and if in pure gel coat would cause assembly problems. If people want to paint it like that, they let them, but think about how two colours of unpainted gel coat would be assembled and render to that.

http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/v3_side.jpg

Take the "character" out of the rear end. In the front "character", you can see a "viper" with the eyes and fangs. Looks like a nice pit viper head. There is no need to put that same character in the rear. Makes the rear "character" look like it is running away. Open up the "eyes" and uncover the entire tail light lenses.

I think the biggest reaction front posters was the original "orange" design. That is what turned me to the 818 project. Don't mess with a good thing.

Ron

[16g-95gsx]

-I don't mind the vents behind the front fenders, they should serve a purpose and don't look "bad" to me.
-The rear vents on the new rendering don't look nearly as attractive as the original orange design.
-I really dislike the exhaust rectangles, to me it cheeses up the rear of the car. I would much rather see circular exhausts venting out the rear, possibly even a centered exit.
-I'm also not sure how I feel about the rear spoiler and look of the rear end as a whole. The orange design seems to have a more integrated lip spoiler, rather than a large protruding one.
-The headlights on the orange design look much nicer to me than the lowered headlights of the blue design. Personal taste, but I think you nailed the look of the car with the orange design. I would focus on the rear design moreso than changing the front at all.

I'm genuinely getting excited for this design, I check back on this forum every day or so just to see how it's coming along. Great job.

[DrieStone]

Rodney,

You'll have to excuse me if you've already answered this. Does your design source the headlights (or other hardware like windshield) from other vehicles?

[BipDBo]

Looking great I can really see the wind flowing over this thing even when it's standing still. Adding the hood discharge and removing the dent in the roof were big improvements. I look forward to seeing a 3Dspin.

The only criticism I have is very minor. I'm not a big fan of the exhaust, not so much because of its shape, but because most of these will bbe built keeping the single turbo and therfore keep a single exhaust. What would you do for a single exhaust?

[Xusia]

Not that my opinion counts, but here it is anyway:
1. The side vents behind the front fenders are OK with me. If the car is to be targa, I'd rather see the vents there than over the hood, because I don't hink nit looks bad at all, and having them over the hood means no under hood trunk or targa top storage - something that is immensely practical.

2. I would personally prefer less hood bulge, and more slope. As long as it doesn't eliminate under hood trunk space and targa top storage.

3. Like everyone else, I REALLY like the straight rocker / angled uptick / triangular vent look of the orange car. That is truly a killer look. Above all other feedback, I hope that makes it into the final design.

4. For the rear, it's really grown on me. I think the rear of VMan's car is more the kind of rear I expect from an exotic sports car, but like I said this one has grown on me and I"d be content with it.

5. Like some of the others, I don't think the rectangular exhausts are for me, but it was creative nonetheless. To me, an exotic sports car pretty much demands quad round or oval chrome tipped exhaust.

[kach22i]

Just testing out some things based on the comments so far, in a quick crude and rude manner.

http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile/
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile/kach22i-olpro-Blue-tickjpg.jpg

Is this sort of what people are asking for?

[apexanimal]

i want this car.

[mattster03]

Wow, car looks great and I am glad to hear Dave is working with Rodney on the design! Guys you really gotta quit being so picky, I'm sure a lot of the changes are being driven by manufacturability.

[Oppenheimer]

Yes, Kach, that I is what I was thinking. I know someone else mentioned it above, my guess is that is what he was asking for too. Now that I see it, I do like it. Obviously needs work to clean it up. The transition from rocker arch to rear vender notch area. Also, I'd like to see the arch thing toned down. oldpro did some renderings with less arch that took out some of the 'too thin in the middle makes it look fragile' effect, and I liked how that looked. Personally I don't see 'weak' when I look at this side view, but I think the arched rocker has too much black, which overpowers the side view, and oldpro's idea gets rid of that.

If the front gap/vent has to remain for door fitment, I'm good with that. If not, I do like the flow better from the rear 3/4 view that the 'unvented' front fender had.

[ElderDragon]

Referring to Rodney's post #372.
I was wondering if it needs a hood vent and side vents? The style of the front vents is great in the line of another great looking car with front fender vents that are pretty similar called the Ferrari F40 :)
I am less of a fan of the rear fender inlet compared to the more flowing lines of the orange car with the lower triangular vent.

[Rock44]

I agree with dclin, except for the rear fender vents. Can we not just leave it at this??

Note: I changed the location of the side mirrors.

http://www.f5builds.com/documents/myviper.jpg

I think the biggest reaction front posters was the original "orange" design. That is what turned me to the 818 project. Don't mess with a good thing.

Ron

I agree whole-heartedly. The rear "triangular" vents and straight rockers really make the design. I'm ok with the front fender vents if they are needed for manufacturability.

[vozproto]

Referring to Rodney's post #372.
I was wondering if it needs a hood vent and side vents? The style of the front vents is great in the line of another great looking car with front fender vents that are pretty similar called the Ferrari F40 :)
I am less of a fan of the rear fender inlet compared to the more flowing lines of the orange car with the lower triangular vent.


^ Agreed.

Its like a E30 M3 body line (obviously it didnt have vents back there) vs. well the BACK vents of the F430.
Yes this is a gross exaggeration to portray how it breaks the lines of the car.
But you get the picture of how it may affect the flow of the car.

[kach22i]

The style of the front vents is great in the line of another great looking car with front fender vents that are pretty similar called the Ferrari F40 :)

That is a fun car to try and keep up with.;)

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Exotic%20Cars/George-Turn-Around-Sq-Lk.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Exotic%20Cars/George-Street.jpg

[Flamshackle]

Love the two tone on this red hot Olmos design... its very current and screams 458!
6254

PS upon reflection I also would rather the "uptick" pre wheel intake rather than the current design vents. love the fronts however...

[fourier]

I have to admit that this design was my least liked in the original contest due to the front grill/spoiler. I had already decided that I wouldn't build it if it ended up with the front looking like that. However, the updated version, particularly the orange one everyone seems in love with, is easily my favourite and the one I'm rooting for in having the most influence on the final 818.

Looks are obviously very subjective, so even though the original rubbed me the wrong way, you still did a great job on it and are doing a great job with your continuing development.

[kitcarj]

Is this sort of what people are asking for?
I hope it is more like this. I don't have any skills at this so excuse the roughness.
6255

[Psay]

I hope it is more like this. I don't have any skills at this so excuse the roughness.
6255

That's much better. The straight black and then the up tick.

[dclin]

I agree with dclin, except for the rear fender vents. Can we not just leave it at this??

Note: I changed the location of the side mirrors.

....
I think the biggest reaction front posters was the original "orange" design. That is what turned me to the 818 project. Don't mess with a good thing.

Ron

I agree, and I can go either way on the fender vents. I think the original, orange rendering strikes a great balance between what the clear majority of us wants, from those that loved the original version before, and those that hated it. I believe it just needs minor tweaking to include functional things that are necessary for pruduction. For example, with the latest revisions, I really like how vents for the engine area (easily ducted to the IC,etc) are subtly integrated into the 'b' pillars, which you can see between one of the original renders and the latest:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6258&d=1321693052

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6257&d=1321693051





62576258

[GunnerG]

Rodneys is my favorite design by a mile. However, the more I see the side view the higher the top of the roof looks. I assume it's this way because he actually followed the template. To me it would look better if it were lower. Something else that would help would be olpros suggestion of less extreme curvature of the door arch.

[David]

Personally I like the front fender vents. The can be functional as well.

The high rocker of this design would allow Jim some freedom with the chassis that would make a significant difference on the chassis stiffness.

David

[RonSchofield]

Personally I like the front fender vents. The can be functional as well.

David

David,

What were you thinking of in terms of functionality?

[Draco-REX]

Rodneys is my favorite design by a mile. However, the more I see the side view the higher the top of the roof looks. I assume it's this way because he actually followed the template. To me it would look better if it were lower. Something else that would help would be oldpros suggestion of less extreme curvature of the door arch.
Yeah, it's for head clearance as it needs to fit a 6'4" person in the stock WRX seats. The good news is that while it looks high, it's not bad; the large fender arches help. But ultimately, you can take a roof off. :)

[Vman7]

David,

What were you thinking of in terms of functionality?

Not sure where I read it, if was here somewhere or somewhere else, anyways. At least on some race cars they can get air pressure built up in the front fender area and it starts to lift the car, so the fender vents either at top or behind are mostly to relieve the pressure. At least that is what I remember reading. Far as a street car, won't make a bit of difference, other then maybe allow some of the front radiator heat be vented out of the side vents.

[Draco-REX]

David,

What were you thinking of in terms of functionality?
The front side vents can vent air from the front wheel wells. The spinning tires will create a high pressure area under the fenders which can cause lift at speeds. Venting that high pressure air can improve front downforce. Now, the worst of the pressure is at the top of the tire, that's why you see the fender louvers at the top on full body race cars. But you can still vent some of that air out the back of the fender.

This lift can also be reduced by grabbing air from the front of the car and venting it out the sides just in front of the tire. This is called an "air curtain." You'll actually see this appearing on newer sports cars. I bet this could be accomplished really easily with the existing design, no modifications to the body needed.

[Vman7]

The front side vents can vent air from the front wheel wells. The spinning tires will create a high pressure area under the fenders which can cause lift at speeds. Venting that high pressure air can improve front downforce. Now, the worst of the pressure is at the top of the tire, that's why you see the fender louvers at the top on full body race cars. But you can still vent some of that air out the back of the fender.

This lift can also be reduced by grabbing air from the front of the car and venting it out the sides just in front of the tire. This is called an "air curtain." You'll actually see this appearing on newer sports cars. I bet this could be accomplished really easily with the existing design, no modifications to the body needed.

Thanks for explaining that better then I could :)

[RonSchofield]

If you want to make a vent for reduce some of the pressure in the front wheel well. Remove the sharp edge and blend a curved vent in line with the rear one. This one breaks up the smooth lines. A vent can be created that doesn't mess with the curves. With all the nice curves in this design, this creates a break in those lines.

[Draco-REX]

Been quiet around here. Hope the black cloak of NDA isn't keeping you away, Rodney.

[Eclipsor00]

What about this version with the new front fascia on it?
Would it not meet the criteria?


http://rodneyolmos.com/factoryfive/v2/images/2.jpg


Mother of god! Thats hair on fire, classy, easy to make a top, easy to make spec, fun roadster! I would lay my money down right now if that was to come to production.

[D2W]

Rodney love you're progress. I too don't care for the new front vent. How about instead of bringing out the front fender to create the vent, you inset the front of the door to create a vent space. I think that it would look a lot smoother.

[kach22i]

I think FFR put Rodney to work and he's busy now.

[RodneyO]

Sorry for the lack of updates, I was able to update more often a couple of weeks ago, because I was off work for 2 weeks. I am back to work (job) and trying to enjoy the holidays =). updates may not come as often, but I will try and upload anything I complete just so everyone can see some small progress.

Had some time last night so I sketched up some sideview concept ideas.

Do any of these catch your eye or seem worth exploring further?

Sketch 1
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/side1.jpg
Sketch 2
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/side2.jpg
Sketch 3
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/side3.jpg
Sketch 4
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/side4.jpg
Sketch 5
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/side5.jpg
Sketch 6
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/side6.jpg
Sketch 7
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/side7.jpg

[RonSchofield]

If there really is a need for a front fender vent, personally I wouldn't have one, this is the front vent that I would choose.

http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/side4.jpg

All the rocker panels don't match the one in the drawing. The drawing one is the best IMHO.

http://www.f5builds.com/documents/myviper.jpg

Update: Looking again. Is the one in this drawing the exact same as the drawing? It looks close, but "different".

http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/side5.jpg

[slopoke]

First of all, they're all cool as he**, but I think sketch 1 nailed it for me... but I'm sure there'll be a lot more and varied opinions Rodney. Thanks for the time you've been taking to do all of this. It has been fun to watch the genesis. Will any of this be posted to the rotating 3D model?

[GUNS]

I'm not a fan of the front fender vents, it's chopping up the car a little too much and messing with the flow of the lines. I know you are busy, but i'd like to see some different options for the back end.

[slopoke]

Another possibility is to put a sharp 90 degree lip at the lower front edge of the wheel wells and extend it up about six inches to create an area of low pressure to pull the air out of the wheel wells ... sort of a flare ...

[slopoke]

this needs the assistance of an aeronautical engineering background ... anybody ??? ... just some alternative suggestions

[flyboy2160]

if you have the hood vent, don't have front fender vents. they all look tacky to me.

if the 200mph lemans racers want to vent the fenders, they can do it on their own.

[bromikl]

6352

I LOVE the hood vent from this one. However I was thinking the car needs a hood vent or fender vents. I prefer the aesthetics of the hood vent, but if it prevents us from storing the targa in front, I'd rather have fender vents.

[kach22i]

If I had to choose, it would be #4 Sketch, and I would eliminate the front wheel vent.

I still would like to see the red/orange one with the tick vent rendered from the side and rear 3/4 angles.

[Doc_FFR]

6352

I LOVE the hood vent from this one. However I was thinking the car needs a hood vent or fender vents. I prefer the aesthetics of the hood vent, but if it prevents us from storing the targa in front, I'd rather have fender vents.
/agree
We need a little space for storage at least.

[apexanimal]

Sketch 2
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/side2.jpg
Sketch 6
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/side6.jpg

for me these two do the best in keeping the lines and flow of the side...

with that said i think of the two, #6 would be the most effective at venting...

[Oppenheimer]

Sketch #2

[Psay]

I would much prefer a hood vent than the fender vents. To me the fender vents look fussy and break up the clean lines.

The rear vents in the picture below look great and are discreet. For me this picture is perfect and needs no further improvements, however, it would be nice to see a rear 3/4 view of this.

The effort you are putting into this is superb Rodney. I just hope I get the chance to build and drive your creation one day soon.



6353

[PhyrraM]

#6 for both the front fender vent and the lower black area on the side.

I would try a few rars ends with a single exhaust on the passenger side, or dual spaced exhausts. The center will be hard to do because of the transmission.

Overall I like this rear end treatment over the original with the oval outlets. However, the diffuser seems to be hung under the back instead of part of the design.

What are you going for on the green one, right behind the rear wheels? It looks chopped off and a bit more angular.

Great work, keep it up. It is appreciated.

[Hiryu]

I'm with slopoke: #1 does it for me. It seems the most cohesive and sexy design. The two shoulder lines compliment each other while continuing to keep the slender look at the front of the doors.

Looking at the rockers, i'm guessing they'll look at least as good as the original orange front view, especially because the existence of curves keep the organic theme going (the only thing I didn't really like with the original orange refresh was the straight lines mixed with the rest of the curves).

Either way, I like this direction a bit more than the previous one that had the full-height vents at the front and rears of the doors; I personally didn't like the doors' shapes sticking out visually. I like the integrated look like this a lot more.

I also really like the blades in the front vent--it's the small and intricate details like this that I feel make the car more substantial than a simple kit car (granted, if done well and with restraint). The only thing is that this would be the only place on the car with the "bladed vent" look...maybe a subtle theme around the car might make it a bit more cohesive...like the front/aft designs of the Porsche 959, for example. Maybe a rear vent could feature some similar blading?

Anyways, looking better and better...curious if these new changes are done with ffr input? I would personally love to hear there's been a "go-ahead" with this design (I know, I know....we still have two more months to find a body by Dave's schedule...but i'm really liking this one).

Wow....i write too much.
Mike

[RodneyO]

Just thought that I would do a quick a sketch of the original orange concept, the sides sounded cool at the moment and its a fun image from that angle, but as soon as I started building in 3d, the flow just wasn't there; and I'm sure with experimenting it could probably work.

Ron, yes the green version was an attempt or variation to the original orange concept.

I'm leaning towards not having a front vent, I like 2 and 6 personally either could work with a vent or without a vent, they're both subtle and match the flow lines best.

Here is a sketch of the orange concept.

Sketch8
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/side8.jpg

[Inthenameofweez]

#1 #4 or #6

[Flamshackle]

Rodney, thanks for the updates and ongoing development. Awesome stuff again :~)

Personally I would go with just a bonnet vent rather than fender vents. One thing I'm keen to see explored is a lower "bulge" on the actual bonnet. My thing with a mid engine is the bonnet is a low slung item and this is not reflected at this stage by this design I feel. Possible to change without changing the freakin hot look? I don't know, but might be worth a try?

[Draco-REX]

Love the green (was even thinking of that color) version. The first one is cool, but the louvers aren't used anywhere else on the car, so they don't fit with the consistency you've shown elsewhere in the design. The green (#5) fender vents mimic the rear ones and really tie the front and rear together. So if a fender vent *must* be used, that's the design I'd vote for.

However, the clean front fender, triangular rear intake, and hood vent is the combo I'd like to see finalized.

[Draco-REX]

Rodney, thanks for the updates and ongoing development. Awesome stuff again :~)

Personally I would go with just a bonnet vent rather than fender vents. One thing I'm keen to see explored is a lower "bulge" on the actual bonnet. My thing with a mid engine is the bonnet is a low slung item and this is not reflected at this stage by this design I feel. Possible to change without changing the freakin hot look? I don't know, but might be worth a try?
I like the hood shape. Yes it bulges upwards, but then the center is punched in and opened in the front. To me, it's like "Tada! No engine!" And the shape left behind makes a cool "gurney flap" to help heat extraction. But most of all, it's a shape I've never seen before, and I'd like to see it made real.

[Psay]

Just thought that I would do a quick a sketch of the original orange concept, the sides sounded cool at the moment and its a fun image from that angle, but as soon as I started building in 3d, the flow just wasn't there; and I'm sure with experimenting it could probably work.

Ron, yes the green version was an attempt or variation to the original orange concept.

I'm leaning towards not having a front vent, I like 2 and 6 personally either could work with a vent or without a vent, they're both subtle and match the flow lines best.

Here is a sketch of the orange concept.

Sketch8
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/side8.jpg

I am not sure how much the colour and/or lighting is having an effect, but the line from the top of the front fender down through the door and up over the rear fender looks less pronounced which in gives the car less of a flow.

The black rocker looks less bulky and not as defined as on the original orange car. Also there appears to be a large expanse of green in front of the rear wheels which upsets the balance. I am sure this is a perspective thing and if viewed from the side would look different.

You mentioned in a earlier post about a 3D image similar to your 1st post. I believe, it would be beneficial to everyone to be able to see the car from these different angles and see how it all flows together.

[dclin]

Love #2,5, and 6... specifically the scalloped rockers!!!! I love the subtle vents best of #2, but I' afraid that hot radiator air (if thats ulitmately what they are for) will spill into the cabin if the windows are rolled down. I had a '93 GSXR750 many years back, and it was like riding around, straddling a range oven - not fun. Hot air in the face, with the windows down and top off wouldn't be either. Love, love the vent on #5. Like #6 too, but I think it makes the door looked a little 'pinched', and makes the side look a little busy. Not that there is more detail, just the lines seem to take off in different directions, compared to the others.

Having said that, I agree with some of the others - unless there is a functional reason to have the front fender vents vs the hood vent, I'd rather not have any of the vents on the fenders. If I had to though, it would be #5.

[bbjones121]

I think it is the color and shading or lack of that hides the contours. I hope they are still there.

[kitcarj]

Rodney, I finally downloaded the 3d viewer but is there only the original design or are the newer versions posted yet?
Did you create the car with Unity 3d and if so did you use the vehicle editor resource pack, start with an existing car and sculpt it to what you wanted, or did you start from the ground up? Do you know how it compares to Wings 3d or sketchup?

No, those blue renders are the wide version. When I get a chance I will do new renders, but I wan to do all suggested edits before doing that. I will upload revisions to the 3d viewer as time goes on.

[RodneyO]

Rodney, I finally downloaded the 3d viewer but is there only the original design or are the newer versions posted yet?
Did you create the car with Unity 3d and if so did you use the vehicle editor resource pack, start with an existing car and sculpt it to what you wanted, or did you start from the ground up? Do you know how it compares to Wings 3d or sketchup?
No I haven't uploaded the 3d model in the viewer yet, I'm about to soon. But to answer your questions, Unity3d is what's called a game engine, you build games in it or interactive stuff in it.

I started the model from scratch, Unity3d isn't a 3d model builder but rather a place where you import 3d geometry into so you can do stuff with it; I think the resource pack you are talking about, is more of assets you can you use to put a car together to make it run in a game form, I think it includes tires, physics, game scripts, etc. I have to read some more on it again, I'm going based of memory.

I have not used Wings 3d or Sketchup, I have seen Sketchup, but I do not know how good it would be to use for modeling, looks promising. I use 3d Studio Max, Maya, Mudbox, Photoshop and Painter for all the graphics I do. Maya is the more popular program to use for 3d at the professional level, 3d studio Max for car renditions isn't the best, I feel that I'm always wresting with it. I know that Rhino 3d and Solidworks seem like awesome tools to build cars or mechanical stuff with, if that is what you are going after. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what tool you use, as long as you feel comfortable building the stuff that is in your head in it, I've seen some amazing stuff come out of so many 3d packages, Sorry for the long post, hope I answered your question.

[RodneyO]

Some questions I have been meaning to answer.

Why is the hood so high? It doesn't look mid engined...
Adjusted it, trying to find the balance with the requirements of the car being so high, If I go any lower the cabin area looks really tall.


Rodney, Can you show a render with a six foot male standing next to it? Your design looks aggressive, but the 818 is going to be a small car, about the size of a Miata. Is it going to draw comments like, "Awww, Isn't that cute? That little car is trying to look tough!"

At some point I will be doing realistic renders blended with photography I will try and find a friend that is that tall to pose next to it.


Rodney,

You'll have to excuse me if you've already answered this. Does your design source the headlights (or other hardware like windshield) from other vehicles?

No so far I haven't looked into that, it seems that shape of headlights might be difficult since it seems so specific right now, but the other day the Saturn Sky caught my attention, they have a sharp edge that runs through it, at some point I might try and find some 3d modeled headlights from other cars and see if any fit, but for now still working on the design.

[Tpa65cpe]

Thanks Rodney for the latest updates!! #2,#4, and #6 IMHO look the best and have the best flow lines from a side view. P.S. keep up the great work!!

[Draco-REX]

It's too bad they'd be so expensive, but Infiniti G37 tail lights that fit under the body work would work really well. EDIT: $260 for the pair. Not as bad as I thought, but not cheap.

As for headlights, FFR has plastic covers for the '65 Coupe and GTM, so I would think they could make the covers needed for this. Then it comes down to the elements. I wonder what's more expensive, sourcing whole assemblies, or building mounts for the 06-07 Subaru headlight components. The low beam projectors would work great at the top, and the high-beam reflectors could fit at the bottom.

[RodneyO]

Rodney, thanks for the updates and ongoing development. Awesome stuff again :~)

Personally I would go with just a bonnet vent rather than fender vents. One thing I'm keen to see explored is a lower "bulge" on the actual bonnet. My thing with a mid engine is the bonnet is a low slung item and this is not reflected at this stage by this design I feel. Possible to change without changing the freakin hot look? I don't know, but might be worth a try?
I agree, maybe for the sake of the design there is no need to busy it up, may be individuals can add these details them selves. It may also save production costs for FFR.

[Benno]

Have been watching this thread intently but yet to post. I must say of all the designs chosen this was my favorite from the start and it has only gotten better since. Rodney you're doing a great job of taking on feedback about improvements but retaining the essence of your original design. The hardest part for me will be choosing between a roadster or coupe :-) although FFR may make that choice for me.

My preference would be a hood vent only, but of the sketches above I think #2 is the best as it is the most discreet and doesn't impact the over flow of the design.

The point made about the exhaust is an interesting one, single exhaust on the right hand side would be the most simple and practical although doesn't have the same visual impact as a dual exhaust. Obviously a totally different engine layout but some of the custom exhausts on the GTMs are a work of art and give some ideas of what is possible. This is probably a topic for another thread though.

[Xusia]

Wow. Some nice work Rodney. I like front fender vent #4 the best, and I really like the new look of the rear end. Personally, I really like quad exhausts, and given this is a boxer engine, doesn't it lend itself well to quad exhausts? I'm just sayin... :D

Oh, and as far as the hood goes, I think lower is better so long as it doesn't ruin the look of the car or intrude too much on usable trunk space (or HOPEFULLY) a place to store the top.

Keep up the good work. :)

[PhyrraM]

....., and given this is a boxer engine, doesn't it lend itself well to quad exhausts? ...

The turbo has a single outlet on the passenger side (LHD). Any multi exhaust will be from splitting it. Not neccisarily a bad thing, just trying to enlighten.

[Xusia]

Ahhh. I'm admittedly not very familiar with Subarus. Thanks for enlightening me. And for crushing my dreams! LOL

[Inthenameofweez]

With an N/A engine, quad exhaust could be a possibility. Even dual exhaust will create a completely different sounds compared to the normal Subaru Boxer "rumble".

[16g-95gsx]

I think sketch 2 works great to combine the flow as well as still have a vent. The rear end looks 10x better now IMO. It still looks a bit bulky, but the redesign is a huge leap forward.

[vozproto]

I would vote #5 and #6 for maintaining the overall flow of the vehicle but #6 seems to be on the larger end of what I feel would match the overall look of the car.

The rest dont let my eye travel to other portions of the car without it being an arresting point.

Does that make sense?
PS that spoiler treatment is MEAN.

EDIT- Mixed up sketch numbers. Kinda confusing cause everything is compressed.

[ElderDragon]

I liked the F40 style full front fender vent the best, quite a bit better than any of these new sketches. If I had to go with one of these, I would pick #1.

Like a number of others I prefer the style and the downforce of the central hood vent and I would only go for a fender style vent if it really improved the front storage area or was required for the design.

One request I have is please, please don't put flats on the edge of the fenders like your recent sketches! It seems like every car does this nowadays and it always looks terrible! Your beautiful flowing fenders should end with a nice rounded lip.

[scartaan]

Rodney- thank you for all your work, I would personally be happy with any one of your designs. Just as a thought, would a NACA style duct work in front of the rear fender? It might allow you to make the black side panal more flat, if you felt that would be beneficial.

[GunnerG]

Quote Originally Posted by Flamshackle View Post
Rodney, thanks for the updates and ongoing development. Awesome stuff again :~)
Personally I would go with just a bonnet vent rather than fender vents. One thing I'm keen to see explored is a lower "bulge" on the actual bonnet. My thing with a mid engine is the bonnet is a low slung item and this is not reflected at this stage by this design I feel. Possible to change without changing the freakin hot look? I don't know, but might be worth a try?
I agree, maybe for the sake of the design there is no need to busy it up, may be individuals can add these details them selves. It may also save production costs for FFR.

Me too, simple is better in this instance. I would also like to see olpros idea of less door arch curvature tried. Although I haven't seen it mentioned recently , it seemed initially to have a lot of support.


6400

[gwader]

Ok I'm in. The latest revisions are great. If this is the car FF chooses, I'll put cash down today! By my count it looks like 12 moldable pieces.

Please continue.

[kach22i]

I re-ran into this today, the "tick-vent" is sort of similar to one of the "O" schemes, but I would not let that me influence me either way.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/622809-new-supercar-built-michigan.html#post6175739
6458

[Draco-REX]

I will not let this thread fall off the front page! ;)

So.. umm.. content... hmm....

What color do you guys want your 818-O to be? I'm liking the bright green, personally...

[RonSchofield]

I will not let this thread fall off the front page! ;)

So.. umm.. content... hmm....

What color do you guys want your 818-O to be? I'm liking the bright green, personally...


Orange all the way...

[apexanimal]

i think i'd still have to have it in that bright blue like in the original...

[gwader]

Red

[GunnerG]

Make mine napalm orange. The quicker the better.

[Psay]

As long as it gets made I will take it in any colour.

[rek_racing]

Brilliant and awe-inspiring design ... please keep the updates coming!

[kach22i]

This Saab Phoenix concept hood reminded me just a little of "O's " hood, I like his better, just tossing it out there as an "example" or "inspiration".

http://www.designboom.com/weblog/cat/16/view/13509/saab-phoenix-at-geneva-motor-show-2011.html
6738

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20110301/GENEVA/110309990
6739

http://www.nikeride.com/2012-saab-9-3-hatchback-confirmed-but-is-a-sedan/saab-phoenix-concept-geneva-2011-photo-2/
6740

EDIT 12/20/11
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/12/19/saab-bankruptcy.html

Saab files for bankruptcy
Swedish carmaker's Chinese investors fail to take over former GM company
The Associated Press Posted: Dec 19, 2011 6:49 AM ET Last Updated: Dec 19, 2011 9:18 AM ET Read 72 comments72

[Xusia]

I really tried to see it, but I don't. To me, they look nothing alike. Other than both having headlights and a grill, of course. :D

[kach22i]

I really tried to see it, but I don't. To me, they look nothing alike. Other than both having headlights and a grill, of course. :D
It's was just supposed to be an example of another heavily creased hood.

The Saab is supposed to be super aerodynamic too, which addresses some earlier concerns - I hope.

[Tpa65cpe]

1'st choice is Napalm Orange 2'nd choice is Royal Blue 3'd choice is Ferrari Fly Yellow!!

[shinn497]

Kach22i , I see your point. I wonder why it is so aerodynamic....and didn't Saab die?

[fourier]

6740

That reminds me of this:
http://cache2.artprintimages.com/lrg/26/2679/SDZUD00Z.jpg

The Saab Buffalo.

[Steve91T]

Kach22i , I see your point. I wonder why it is so aerodynamic....and didn't Saab die?

It's not. If they took the crease out, it would have even less drag. For this design, it's a really good way of making a hood vent look great.

[kach22i]

Kach22i , I see your point. I wonder why it is so aerodynamic....and didn't Saab die?

About the aero, some video and text in this link - same as the first link provided:
http://www.designboom.com/weblog/cat/16/view/13509/saab-phoenix-at-geneva-motor-show-2011.html

About the reported death of Saab, guess that's why they call this car the Phoenix.

About "O's" design, it grew on me over time and with the changes. It's a happy design, like a puppy or something.

[scartaan]

6807
Rodney's design makes it's Japanese debut!

[Niburu]

BMW Rodney O

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/534/wallpaper1089335.jpg
http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/451/wallpaper1082242.jpg
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/7230/wallpaper1082256.jpg

[slopoke]

If I start laughing I will wet myself for sure ... but OMG!

[kach22i]

BMW + Rodney O's + Nuphone's = Something far uglier than any of them deserve to be associated with.

Looks like something that monster idiot Rinspeed would unleash on us.

[Oppenheimer]

BMW + Rodney O's + Nuphone's = Something far uglier than any of them deserve to be associated with.

Looks like something that monster idiot Rinspeed would unleash on us.

So then was this hideous BMW created by a disciple of the 'idea first' camp, or 'draw first' camp?

[kach22i]

So then was this hideous BMW created by a disciple of the 'idea first' camp, or 'draw first' camp?
They may have started with a brilliant idea, but they totally failed to execute it.

Then again maybe they had no idea at all and just overworked themselves trying to polish a turd in vain.

I have no idea what sort of disciple they were, I just know that the end product does nothing for me.

This could be the work of a cut-and-paste method, sure looks tossed together.

This could be the fruit of a dysfunctional group or committee bent on destroying the BMW marquee.

This sort of looks like a FFR 818 contest submittal.

As a study comparing the old BMW next to it, to some latest trends and how they may be fused together, I think it works in showing us that there is much ground to be covered, and it's not such an easy thing to do. I can respect it for that, if that was the attempt.

We will fail, so that management gets off our backs about the heritage thing.

[RodneyO]

Hi everyone,
Been trying to work on the car when I can, Holidays aren't helping much but I am taking the opportunity to spend some good time with family =).

I had a chance to do a render last night, playing with HDRI, so I made a wallpaper, hope you enjoy it, cheers!!
http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/RO%20Project%20818%20Wallpaper.jpg

Niburu,
Getting compared to a BMW is a nice compliment =) thank you. I saw this design not long ago, I may be in the minority but there are some really cool things going on there as some bad ones as well. But that roadster just seems like a fun experiment for BMW, and a good way to let the designers have some fun. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.

[Tpa65cpe]

WOW!! Nice rendering Rodney. You have defintly "polished" this one to a very nice level of finish!! P.S. Your design is way better than any BMW that I have ever seen!! I hope that this one get's the green light from FFR. Thank you for shareing these with us and keep up the good work!!:cool:

[gorilla]

That's Beautiful Rodney. Good work. It's still a little on the "cute" side for me. But it's still impressively better than most of the other options.

[Niburu]

That's Beautiful Rodney. Good work. It's still a little on the "cute" side for me. But it's still impressively better than most of the other options.

with the size the car has to be, there is no way to avoid a certain amount of cuteness

[Vman7]

Rodney, Looks awesome!!!:) Don't change anything. Would like to see what the rear looks like.

[Xusia]

Yeah, I could own that! I wonder if I could get the plate "PO GO CRT"? :D

[kach22i]

Nice job, like other's have said - lets see that cute rear.

[Oppenheimer]

Want to see it with body colored roof!

[vozproto]

BMW Rodney O

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/534/wallpaper1089335.jpg


I can't decide on what it looks like...

A pig from angry birds, a pissed off bunny rabbit (cause it had it's ears lopped off), or skelator.
I have to say I like how they tried (but miserably failed) in using the leather hood straps.

BTW Rodney, that rendering looks pretty farking sweet.

[Draco-REX]

That's Beautiful Rodney. Good work. It's still a little on the "cute" side for me. But it's still impressively better than most of the other options.

It'll look less cute without the roof. Also, the angle makes the rear fenders look small. At ground-height, it'll look like a crouched ball of pissed-off whatsit.

And honestly, you won't hear that Mustang driver calling it cute when he's way behind you and shrinking fast.

[SchuMann]

Rodney,

Love your design. Been lurking for awhile, but wanted to chime in a say great work.

[DrieStone]

Interesting, this is the first rendering that I'm not sold on. Something about the curve of that roof, or maybe its just the color. I don't have an issue with "toyish", but this does seem to look a little too "cute". My eye keeps going to the top of the windshield, something about the curve or the proportion seems off to me.

Please don't take it the wrong way, because I love your design, it has been my favorite for a very long time.

It would be good to see it in the Unity player, maybe it's just this particular angle.

[projectrally]

Great rendering. Just one question: in previous renderings the roof looked like a separate and removable panel that could come off to make it a roadster. This one looks like the roof panel and windshield are one piece. So...is the idea to have a removable or fixed roof?

[dclin]

Interesting, this is the first rendering that I'm not sold on. Something about the curve of that roof, or maybe its just the color. I don't have an issue with "toyish", but this does seem to look a little too "cute". My eye keeps going to the top of the windshield, something about the curve or the proportion seems off to me.

Please don't take it the wrong way, because I love your design, it has been my favorite for a very long time.

It would be good to see it in the Unity player, maybe it's just this particular angle.

I get the same thing, which I think is a product of the wookie-compatibility requirement. Visually covering up the upper half of the car (basically the greenhouse), everything looks perfectly proportioned.

I think 18" wheels would help a little - the newest renders are 17", whereas the original orange rendering was probably closer to 18", if I have my timeline right.

[dclin]

Played around a little with the new wallpaper. I think the proportion is thrown off by the thick a-pillars. I started off by simply making them body color (to match the original, orange rendering), which magnified the thickness, so I thinned it out a bit. I think flattening the top of the windshield helped too. I added a front splitter to lessen the 'stubbiness' of the car. Lengthening the front bumper (increasing the overhang) would have messed with the character IMHO, so i thought this was a good, subtle compromise.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6974&d=1324707217

6974

[Best of the best]

It's so...cute. What happen? I'm Not feeling it. Your side panel wheel wells should tuck inward a little so it doesn't look flat from 3/4 perspective. Sorry R.O.

[Draco-REX]

Keep in mind that this car is 6" shorter than a Miata. Even a Gumpert Apollo would look cute if it were that size.

[RodneyO]

http://www.unoverse.com/factoryfive/RO%20Project%20818%20Wallpaper2.jpg

[GUNS]

Rodney, thanks for the updates! I agree with the cute comments for the red one, but the black one looks great! I think this car is really dependent on the angle you are viewing it. I think the stubby front contributes to the cuteness. My only criticism would be to lengthen the nose just a bit. Rodney, I know you are busy, but any updates on the 3d viewer for your newest rendition? Thanks again for your hard work on this, I hope to see it come to fruition.

[Tpa65cpe]

WOW!! Rodney this keeps getting bettter and better just like fine wine!! IMHO you have a winner here!!

[kitcarj]

Beautiful rendering but I am sad it went from exotic to cute.
It seems to me also, that it would look better with a longer nose that comes to a little more of a point like a F458 so it looses the snub nose look.
I don't know if any of the thickness could be taken out of the front fenders and given to the back fenders (Like a Mk 4) to give it more aggression.
I also think that the flat lower side panel (black section) with the uptick at the end makes the car look more aggressive and less cute giving the illusion of a more substantial/powerful rear end.

[dclin]

Beautiful rendering but I am sad it went from exotic to cute.
It seems to me also, that it would look better with a longer nose that comes to a little more of a point like a F458 so it looses the snub nose look.
I don't know if any of the thickness could be taken out of the front fenders and given to the back fenders (Like a Mk 4) to give it more aggression.
I also think that the flat lower side panel (black section) with the uptick at the end makes the car look more aggressive and less cute giving the illusion of a more substantial/powerful rear end.

I think that rather than a longer overhang, I think dropping the hood height and inch or two would help 'sharpen' the nose and lessen the cuteness:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6997&d=1324779243

6997

[shinn497]

That is one of the few Edits I've liked.

comment though rodney, I think a lot of people keep asking for a dropped hood on every revision. Is there a structural/aesthetic reason to keep the hood high.

I actually don't think it looks cute but kind of brawny more akin to its subaru father. Or even an Evo X (with more curves).

[scartaan]

Rodney- magnificent design. The panals as shown should be doable by any method. One thought- you could make the doors only the colored portion as the frame is so high there.
Truly Santa's sleight one eight!

[scartaan]

On closer exam, it appears the door does not extend into the black sill area, so Rodney don't change a thing!

[Jeff Kleiner]

Hmmm. I haven't looked in on this for quite a while. After seeing the latest I won't say that I don't like it but do have to ask---when did it become an Elise?

Carry on,
Jeff

[bromikl]

Can we get one of those 3-D spinny thingies? Thanks.