solder vs crimp - what's your preference? [Archive]

Mike DiGiorgio

04-26-2021, 10:52 AM

Soldering and shrink tube is never bad. Just use HIGH quality solder. Cheep solder isn't worth the time. i would recommend the brand linked below for solder. if its just wires, and not PCB work the $4 harbor freight soldering iron is fine.

https://www.markertek.com/product/solder-62/qualitek-ra300-rosin-core-16-gauge-60-40-0-062-diameter-1-lb-solder?ne_ppc_id=1817008688&gclid=Cj0KCQjwyZmEBhCpARIsALIzmnJcAiMTP8wIqGFQXfek Qed5xihAUYbesHvtcqj--wBVr2IjjYxNaH8aAhKrEALw_wcB

If you crimp, Same story. high quality crimps work great. Exposed crimps with shink tube, and good name brand crimpers are best (knipex makes some solid products) , and are key to giving your connections a long and corrosion free life. The cheep ones with no shrink tube will last months-year before you are re-doing it.

Moral of the story, Use good components for connections either way you go. cheep ones will leave stranded on the roadside if you are lucky, with a burned down car if you are not.

narly1

04-26-2021, 11:02 AM

My $.02.

Not so much a problem with the typical wire gaugesizes found in automotive wiring applications, but when you get into the finer gauge wires there can be an issue with the solder "wicking" up inside the insulation.

The wire goes from being rigid to flexible at the point where the wicking stops. Flex in the wire at this point can cause it to break, hidden up inside the insulation, which makes it a bear to find and repair.

Papa

04-26-2021, 11:03 AM

I used both/all in my build. For simple crimp connections, get a good quality crimper, not the $5 one at the auto parts store. I also bought a bulk reel of shrink tubing and used it on every connection. For all my exposed lighting connections, I used Weatherpack connectors. Be sure to use the right size seals for the wire gauge. I also like to solder the crimps on the pins as I had some that didn't make reliable connections with the crimper on the smaller wires. On grounds, I ran a ground for the negative side of the battery in a short run of 4 gauge wire to the chassis. On the engine, I used the kit-supplied ground strap at the passenger-side motor mount to the motor mount perch on the chassis. For both, be sure to remove all the finish down to bare metal and a dab of dielectric grease will keep a good clean connection for you.

Papa

04-26-2021, 11:10 AM

Not professional quality, but more than adequate for a hobbyist:

Crimp tool:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0045CUMLQ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_BG7G5TM5T1BK93RK792T?_ encoding=UTF8&psc=1

toadster

04-26-2021, 11:52 AM

Not professional quality, but more than adequate for a hobbyist:

Crimp tool:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0045CUMLQ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_BG7G5TM5T1BK93RK792T?_ encoding=UTF8&psc=1

wow those are legit!! I'm so used to the single crimp tools, I may need to look into an upgrade for sure!!

FF33rod

04-26-2021, 11:59 AM

All pretty good advice so far.
I'll add that as a rule of thumb, I will use solder (not crimp) in wire to wire connections. I will crimp end terminations (rings, etc). Sometimes I will also solder the crimp termination for good measure.

Steve

cv2065

04-26-2021, 12:21 PM

toadster

04-26-2021, 12:41 PM

Perma Seal butt connectors are fantastic. They also come with different sized ends for adjoining different sized wires. I use shrink wrap over the top, its just for aesthetics, as that bond is not going anywhere once heated. Waterproof too...

yeah, I remember reading about those - what's a good place to get them from? not cheap but would be great to have an assorted set :)

cv2065

04-26-2021, 02:08 PM

yeah, I remember reading about those - what's a good place to get them from? not cheap but would be great to have an assorted set :)

I get them from Casey Electric Supply on ebay. Just watch who you buy them from as there seems to be cheaper bad knockoffs.

John Ibele

04-26-2021, 04:58 PM

Toadster, your question made me chuckle 'cause I just spun down around this question about a month ago. I was looking for a 'right answer' and there's considerable variation even with experienced folks about which to use where / when. So like many I have both in my dash (just about done), as Papa mentioned. I like the 'solder wire-to-wire connections' advice ... gravitated toward doing that in most places. Shrink tubing: use the 2 layer stuff (shrinks 3:1), a lot stiffer than the cheaper stuff you find at Ace, and should provide better strain relief for the soldered joint. The basic Klein tool is good for crimping ring terminals and quick disconnects. I did spring for a ratcheting tool (S&G Tool Aid 18960) similar to the one Papa mentioned for the weather packs.

I picked up a book on automotive wiring which had a lot of helpful advice on the details of crimping, both materials and practice. Also on solder, how to do it right and where you can go wrong. There was enough there so that if you're not experienced in either, its worth taking the time to read up from a reliability standpoint.

Ray

04-26-2021, 05:12 PM

I used standard crimp when we built our car. Now, when I do any repairs I replace all the connectors with these....https://smile.amazon.com/Connectors-Camtek-Electrical-Waterproof-Automotive/dp/B07C3L4N2J?pd_rd_w=LPvdQ&pf_rd_p=c4085173-f058-4953-ae5c-65d9590cc2d0&pf_rd_r=4BAYF9VZ3RJHQVVQ2S16&pd_rd_r=e2b14318-e6cb-41d4-956a-635b1ba40bbf&pd_rd_wg=EN6yN&pd_rd_i=B07C3L4N2J&psc=1&ref_=pd_bap_d_rp_50_t

Ray

RoadRacer

04-26-2021, 05:14 PM

I get them from Casey Electric Supply on ebay. Just watch who you buy them from as there seems to be cheaper bad knockoffs.

I'm guessing the ones I used are those knockoffs (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MFNSW37/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1).. although so far they've worked perfectly. They have 16,000 reviews (and good rating).

I use a belt-and-braces mindset to wiring because it's such a pain to fix later - and wiring gremlins are horrible in a daily driver. So I used these (solder and heatshrink), then used longer piece of 3-1 heatshrink over the whole thing for support, then tie-wrapped against surrounding wires, then put inside some split wiring loom.. whatever it takes to never have to get into the wiring in an assembled car :D

Lickity-Split

04-26-2021, 05:46 PM

Solder connections are not even allowed on an aircraft. Crimp with good tools and crimp connectors, not the cheap hardware store stuff.

toadster

04-26-2021, 05:51 PM

Solder connections are not even allowed on an aircraft. Crimp with good tools and crimp connectors, not the cheap hardware store stuff.

wow that's surprising!

D Stand

04-26-2021, 06:49 PM

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D04 w_wDCCyDM&psig=AOvVaw2ly8KJt4BM4Vu_To1g0UoD&ust=1619567174314000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CA0QjhxqFwoTCMjmgIOMnfACFQAAAAAdAAAAABAI

Here is a good video from Holley on this subject.

TMartinLVNV

04-26-2021, 07:53 PM

Bob Cowan

04-26-2021, 08:33 PM

Ideally, you should not have to splice a wire. A wire should have a single run from on connector to another. Ideally. I generally prefer to solder and shrink wrap a connection. If it's exposed to weather, I like to use liquid electrical tape inside the shrink wrap. It makes me happy. :)

For connectors, I usually use Weather-Pak. The pins should be crimped with a dedicated crimping tool. But I also like a spot of solder on those, too. In the many years I have been doing this, I have never had a single failure. Not one.

In a lot of places, you need to use crimp connectors for specific purposes; ring terminals, spade connectors, etc. I like to solder and shrink wrap those connections as well.

Soldering is a lot like welding. It can make a good connection even better. But it's a skill that requires practice and the right tools to do it right.

Solder is not used on aircraft. But this is not an aircraft, it's a car. If the air temp is -50*C, my car stays in the garage.

cv2065

04-26-2021, 08:53 PM

Solder connections are not even allowed on an aircraft. Crimp with good tools and crimp connectors, not the cheap hardware store stuff.

Wow...Didn't know that.

edwardb

04-26-2021, 09:11 PM

Solder connections are not even allowed on an aircraft. Crimp with good tools and crimp connectors, not the cheap hardware store stuff.

Is that maybe a company standard? I have a passing knowledge of the industry and didn't sound right. Quick Google and found (a) soldering is used, e.g. avionics, etc., and (b) similar discussions as this one. Solder vs. crimping. But not to the exclusion of soldering.

Regarding the overall subject, I frequently solder in my builds. But I've been doing it for years and have a very high quality solder station. If done very lightly with as little heat as possible, clean the solder joint with isopropyl alcohol, then with shrink tubing well past the solder joint, it works well. I used the double and triple wall shrink sleeve mentioned previously. It has adhesive that adds strength and water resistance to the joint. DelCity.net is the source I use. But I also use crimp only when the parts dictate. But with high quality crimpers. On the other hand, poorly done soldering can do a lot of damage. But near term and long term.

toadster

04-26-2021, 09:53 PM

Is that maybe a company standard? I have a passing knowledge of the industry and didn't sound right. Quick Google and found (a) soldering is used, e.g. avionics, etc., and (b) similar discussions as this one. Solder vs. crimping. But not to the exclusion of soldering.

Regarding the overall subject, I frequently solder in my builds. But I've been doing it for years and have a very high quality solder station. If done very lightly with as little heat as possible, clean the solder joint with isopropyl alcohol, then with shrink tubing well past the solder joint, it works well. I used the double and triple wall shrink sleeve mentioned previously. It has adhesive that adds strength and water resistance to the joint. DelCity.net is the source I use. But I also use crimp only when the parts dictate. But with high quality crimpers. On the other hand, poorly done soldering can do a lot of damage. But near term and long term.

Thanks Paul - always a wealth of knowledge! I seldom solder, just wondering how a solder station works if your work is in the car?
I was thinking of getting one of those TS-100 with USB connection to my dewalt 20V battery setups to be 'portable' and not be limited by power cables

LANMU Battery Adapter Compatible with Dewalt 18V/20V Lithium Ion Battery,TS100 Soldering Iron https://amzn.to/3sUIpuS
TS100 Digital OLED Programmable Pocket-size Smart Mini Portable Soldering Iron Kit https://amzn.to/32UurhO

since I already have the dewalt batteries - the adapter seems like a slick way to bring the power to the work, and not the work to the table :)

Padawan

04-26-2021, 10:42 PM

These worked awesome...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07HCNTZ2Z/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I then covered with heat shrink which was not needed.

Add some quick weather connects and some https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FXF12HC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 with some cloth electrical type and your in business with a good heat gun...I would recommend one that wraps around the

I worked with two electrical engineers from Southwest on wiring the Cobra...they are legit...they are the reason planes don't fire mid flight

You'll want to solder the 4 gauge and less connections for the battery terminals and to the main fuse breaker

Padawan

04-26-2021, 10:44 PM

Crimp are fine as long as they are not going to be exposed to the elements...I would use heat shrink over the crimps... I think the only crimps we used were within the dash

Nigel Allen

04-26-2021, 11:30 PM

Narly1 makes a good point regarding wires breaking at the where the solder stops wicking up the wire, and I have seen this happen. At the end of the day, a rubbish crimp is as bad as a rubbish solder joint. However people on this forum must be getting it right as no-one is reporting failures of either.

Plenty of practice makes the difference. Once the connection is made, a 'tug' test and close visual inspection is the go before adding the heat-shrink.

I also used a temperature controlled soldering station. Not an issue at all to use in the car, in fact the holder for the iron is pretty useful to prevent burning surrounding stuff. Also the illuminated display on the controller helps to remind you that it is hot.

Cheers,

Nigel

Kodiak

04-26-2021, 11:42 PM

For me solder connection is preferred always with heat shrink. Ring terminals and some butt connections as long as hi quality like AMP or Del city or Hi line again with heat shrink. Fusion tape works well also if you happen to forget to put on heat shrink on not cheap though. Soldering wiring on helicopters happens every day as me how I know smh .

BEAR-AvHistory

04-27-2021, 02:19 AM

Hard crimp & shrink tube. The connections have all held up since built. Took dash apart to install classic gauges & had to cut all the original crimps to remove the original gauges.

edwardb

04-27-2021, 05:39 AM

Thanks Paul - always a wealth of knowledge! I seldom solder, just wondering how a solder station works if your work is in the car?
I was thinking of getting one of those TS-100 with USB connection to my dewalt 20V battery setups to be 'portable' and not be limited by power cables

LANMU Battery Adapter Compatible with Dewalt 18V/20V Lithium Ion Battery,TS100 Soldering Iron https://amzn.to/3sUIpuS
TS100 Digital OLED Programmable Pocket-size Smart Mini Portable Soldering Iron Kit https://amzn.to/32UurhO

since I already have the dewalt batteries - the adapter seems like a slick way to bring the power to the work, and not the work to the table :)

My solder station is like this one: https://www.amazon.com/Weller-WES51-Analog-Soldering-Station/dp/B000BRC2XU. I think an older model but looks the same. Have had it for years going back to my R/C modeling days. I don't mind that it's corded. No big deal. High percentage of work is done on the bench. If I have to work in the car, either have the base on a work cart or all inside. Not a problem.

AC Bill

05-02-2021, 01:59 PM

Railroad

05-03-2021, 08:53 AM

Solder connections are not even allowed on an aircraft. Crimp with good tools and crimp connectors, not the cheap hardware store stuff.

I do not think that is correct. I was an A class A & P mechanic and around the electricians while working.
I am pretty sure I remember, see the smoke coming off the soldering they were doing.

Papa

05-03-2021, 09:11 AM

So Ray, what method do you use to heat these connectors enough to melt the solder? A small torch. soldering gun, ciggy lighter? I've not seen those kind before.

From what I'm reading, a heat gun is all that's required.

Minimum temperature for solder to melt: 138°C or 280.4°F

Caddy Dad

05-03-2021, 09:14 AM

Before I retired, I worked for a major aerospace defense contractor. For airborne/space applications our standards were to crimp, solder and heat shrink terminals (plus additional testing, xrays etc). Kind of a belt and suspenders approach to making terminal connections. Always strive to a mechanical and electrical connection. Nothing worse than troubleshooting an intermittent connection in a cable or black box on the flight line in front of the customer. Sigh.

Blitzboy54

05-03-2021, 10:28 AM

Solder is not used on aircraft. But this is not an aircraft, it's a car. If the air temp is -50*C, my car stays in the garage.

This is correct. I can say with confidence the Marine Corp keeps it's aircraft in the air with crimp connections and weather guard (Thick heat shrink)

Mike DiGiorgio

05-03-2021, 02:17 PM

This is correct. I can say with confidence the Marine Corp keeps it's aircraft in the air with crimp connections and weather guard (Thick heat shrink)

i can confirm the military does this as well as nasa/ However the reasons i have heard boil down to a few different trains of thought

-field repair, Crimps can be BS'ed together in a tight situation
- process control. when a crimp fails its easy to see why, Either a bad connector, bad crimping tool, or a bad operator. soldering has a lot more grey area that is hard to pinpoint years later.
- vibrations/heat Nasa hates solder because it can melt, and rockets get hot. Aircrafts also can get up there in temperature. You also can not solder in zero gravity. So for NASA " field repairs" in space with solder is literally impossible.

outside of vibrations. I can not think of any reason these are applicable in an automotive application.

CraigS

05-04-2021, 07:02 AM

I rarely solder. I crimp w/ this type plier, followed by shrink tube.
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_36616_36616?cm_mmc=Bing-pla&utm_source=Bing_PLA&utm_medium=Hand%20Tools%20%3E%20Cutters%20%3E%20Wi re%20Cutters%20%2B%20Strippers&utm_campaign=Channellock&utm_content=15823&cmpid=53403384&agid=3200075895&tgtid=pla-4577335628336373&prdid=15823&gclid=03bea66517d61d30b1b8c6f423f8e539&gclsrc=3p.ds&msclkid=03bea66517d61d30b1b8c6f423f8e539
See the teat on one side and the valley on the other? The teat deforms the connector at that spot while the valley keeps it from just flattening out. Look closely at the little metal tube and you will see it is not solid. It has a split along it's length. I put the split in the valley side of the tool which keeps it from opening up. On a side note from the boating world maybe 30 yrs ago there was a diy magazine that did a test on solder vs crimp. Crimp won. The reason was that solder leaves some chemicals in the joint. Those chemicals promoted corrosion because of the salt water atmosphere. There was also some discussion of the skill level needed for quality soldering joints which they felt probably wasn't universal among diy'ers.

msbrown6

05-23-2021, 03:20 PM

Heat shrink connectors with solder are my favorite. Heat shrink tube over the top if it makes you feel better too. https://www.amazon.com/140-Solder-Seal-Wire-Connectors/dp/B07JJ6YYKL

CDXXVII

05-23-2021, 10:51 PM

I typically use a non insulated crimp type terminal and a good adhesive lined heat shrink for most of my terminations. If I need to splice this is the only time I use solder as shown below. Not the best soldering example but I was in a hurry.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=148369&d=1621828174

toadster

08-04-2021, 11:34 PM

a great article showing the benefits...

https://millennialdiyer.com/articles/motorcycles/electrical-repair-crimp-or-solder/

key takeaway: Crimp where you can, solder where you have to.

Lidodrip

08-05-2021, 07:23 PM

I have used crimp connectors for many years in the marine environment and I don't think I ever had one fail. I like to use Ancor heatshrink connectors - https://www.ancorproducts.com/en/products/terminals/butt-connectors. They aren't cheap, but well worth the money. Most marine stores sell them. Like others have said, a quality tool is important.

RBachman

08-06-2021, 07:11 AM

Crimp connectors. But with a couple of requirements. You need good wire, good crimpers, good components.

TriPower

08-07-2021, 08:20 AM

Solder is allowed on aircraft components, but only internally. Think generators and their connectors that are soldered. Note we used GOLD solder due to fact acid in oil will attack lead in solder. Not that I am recommending gold solder for anything on a cobra.

Lee

SourceLee

08-07-2021, 11:57 PM

For the purpose of conducting electricity reliably, effectively and absolutely. Solder, all day every day. The difference in conduction of a crimp compared to a solder is in their methods. Crimps conduct electricity through a physical connection. Soldered connections conduct electricity through a molecular bond. Crimps can fail several different ways. However a soldered joint must be destroyed for it to fail. To be fair soldering has it's shortcomings but to an extreme extent they're all physical limitations. Not electrical ones. Crimps will always have a region where the crimp fitting ends and the conductor begins. Conversely, soldered joints have no definitive gap no more than welds or brazes. A soldered joint is absolute.
In light of the above I always consider soldering first and then to mitigate any repetitive movement. For example, a thick heat shrink tube or multiple layers of heat shrink tubes. The idea is to shift the flex point further down the conductor. Where there’s no undesirable solder wicking or heat treating. If a considerable amount of movement is required I’ll default to a high quality crimp. Followed by a heat shrink tube to seal off the crimp from the outside world.

Lickity-Split

08-08-2021, 06:56 PM

To add a little more gasoline:

https://www.hpacademy.com/technical-articles/solder-vs-crimping/

https://monroeengineering.com/blog/crimping-vs-soldering-cable-connectors-which-is-best/#:~:text=Crimping%20offers%20stronger%2C%20more%20 reliable,is%20also%20easier%20than%20soldering.

https://millennialdiyer.com/articles/motorcycles/electrical-repair-crimp-or-solder/

https://www.motor.com/magazine-summary/trouble-shooter-september-2018/

turbomacncheese

08-08-2021, 10:51 PM

As long as this thread is still going....
I soldered a LOT of my harness, and I'm not particularly worried about vibrations on the joint because there are sooooo many other places for the wire to take up that vibration before stressing the solder joint. BUT....that's because it's what I had and what I'm pretty OK with.

Feeling confident that at some point I'm ripping it apart and starting over, probably the whole car....just because.

I've considered that Subaru expects to warranty cars for quite some time, so I'll do what they do: crimp everything that can be crimped.

If I think I'll beat on it more than anything Subaru could expect a harness to endure, I'll do what the motorsport guys seem to do: crimp everything that can be crimped.

rich grsc

08-09-2021, 07:08 AM

As long as this thread is still going....
I soldered a LOT of my harness, and I'm not particularly worried about vibrations on the joint because there are sooooo many other places for the wire to take up that vibration before stressing the solder joing. BUT....that's because it's what I had and what I'm pretty OK with.

Feeling confident that at some point I'm ripping it apart and starting over, probably the whole car....just because.

I've considered that Subaru expects to warranty cars for quite some time, so I'll do what they do: crimp everything that can be crimped.

If I think I'll beat on it more than anything Subaru could expect a harness to endure, I'll do what the motorsport guys seem to do: crimp everything that can be crimped.
So true, good advice.:cool: My STI gets hammered on almost as hard as the cobra