Flaming River Rack Input Needed

[Snakeskin347]

Does anyone have any input on what I am doing wrong here? I have a Mark 4 and just bought a FR1503 rack which is supposed to be for a 79 to 93 Mustang which I was told that I needed. It finally came in and everything lines up and is identical to the last one except that it is 2" short on each side and will not work. Did I order the wrong rack or do I need longer tie rod ends? Please help if anyone has any knowledge on this. Thanks!

[Hoooper]

The ffr rack has spacers on the inner tie rods if its a manual rack from ffr from within the last 10(?) or so years. That's what I've found in my research. The rack that comes with the kit is a unisteer rack that seems to be made specifically for ffr and isn't even in the unisteer catalog. No over the counter mustang rack is the right one except direct from ffr or finding someone who bought a kit and decided to go power steering, or possibly from one of the ffr specific companies

[Snakeskin347]

Thanks for the info Hoooper, do you know if this rack is still usable? How do I gain 2" of tie rod on each side? I thought that this would be a no brain installation as FFR simply says to use your old Mustang rack from 87 - 04? If this rack was supposed to be for a 93 Mustang should it not of fit? Maybe I should of got their 94 - 04 Mustang rack? My local parts supplier is going to be pissed as I promised that it would work if he ordered it, I guess that he is sitting on thousands of dollars of parts that he can't ship back until these Covid restrictions lighten up here! :eek:

[R. Button]

If you get stuck with the flaming river rack - it looks to be a manual one - I might be interested in it. Just send me a message.

[Hoooper]

You can use the rack, it just wont be the best driving experience. You will have bump steer for sure, no idea how bad it will be. You could also see if you can buy or have made some spacers, the threads are supposed to be 14mmx1.5.

Highly recommend putting out a message looking to buy the manual unisteer rack from someone, there seem to be quite a lot of guys who have this rack unused. When I was looking for one I asked and received at least 3 responses the first and only day I had the request out

[Norm B]

As stated you can use the rack but, you're going to need some parts. I dug out my MK IV manual and took a couple of pictures. You will have to get two FFR part number 14687 steering rack inner tie rod extensions. You may also need tie rods for an 87-93 mustang. Your old ones may work so check first.
Now to stir the pot:p Why not take the opportunity to upgrade to power steering since you got it this far apart.

HTH

Norm

[Snakeskin347]

Thanks for the info guys! I'll definitely reach out to FFR regarding these spacers. I think that I will reach out to Flaming River as well and see if I can squeeze some more info out of them! I've seen multiple people on this site saying that they have a Flaming River rack in there signature and was really hoping that one of them would read this thread and let me know what they exactly did and what they used. I'll get this figured out one way or another...thanks again!

[AC Bill]

There were three different length tie rod ends that were being used by builders back when I build my roadster. You just need to use the correct ones.
Pin drive set ups used one length, donor power steering racks another, and the longer ones that I used with my Flaming River manual rack. I had the quick ratio one (15-1) FR offered, and it was the replacement one they sell, for the 87-93 Mustang. The part # you mention really sounds familiar. No spacers of any sort were involved. I believe FFR provided the spacers for builders when using donor power steering racks and donor tie rod ends. I did use steering limiters. They have nothing to do with lengthening or shortening the rack though.

Now I don't know what changes may have been made in regards to the MKIV, as to the spindle, (or other components now supplied), but I had no issues using the Mustang donor spindles. A few years back a fellow did a good right up on his MK4, as to adjusting the inner tie-rods to center the rack, perhaps there will be some insight you can gain from it.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?19175-Steering-Rack-Install-Setup-Procedure

[Norm B]

AC Bill, in his original post Snakeskin347 said he had bought a Flaming River manual rack for a 79 to 93 Mustang. This, to me, means it is the same length as the Mustang power rack and therefore needs the spacers to prevent bump steer. As you stated, there are a bunch of variables in configuration that could change that.

Norm

[AC Bill]

The donor power steering rack came with shorter outer tie rod ends, so the inner rods needed the spacers when they were used on the build. I suppose if you used the donor length outer tie rod ends, on a aftermarket rack (other than the FFR one which has already been modified) you could use the spacers, rather than the longer tie-rod ends.

Do you recall a few years back, builders were actually having to cut the outer rods shorter, because the threads on the tie rod ends were bottoming out. They couldn't get the toe correct. This old thread discus's some of that aspect.
https://www.ffcars.com/threads/steering-rack-extensions-mk-3-1-complete-kit.231743/

[Norm B]

I have the Mustang powered rack. The spacers move the inner tie rod pivot in line with a line transecting the upper and lower control arm pivot points when the steering is centred. This eliminates a bump steer problem but, necessitates cutting the outer end of the tie rod to be able to get to proper alignment specs without the bottoming out issue you noted.

Norm

[Snakeskin347]

There were three different length tie rod ends that were being used by builders back when I build my roadster. You just need to use the correct ones.
Pin drive set ups used one length, donor power steering racks another, and the longer ones that I used with my Flaming River manual rack. I had the quick ratio one (15-1) FR offered, and it was the replacement one they sell, for the 87-93 Mustang. The part # you mention really sounds familiar. No spacers of any sort were involved. I believe FFR provided the spacers for builders when using donor power steering racks and donor tie rod ends. I did use steering limiters. They have nothing to do with lengthening or shortening the rack though.

Now I don't know what changes may have been made in regards to the MKIV, as to the spindle, (or other components now supplied), but I had no issues using the Mustang donor spindles. A few years back a fellow did a good right up on his MK4, as to adjusting the inner tie-rods to center the rack, perhaps there will be some insight you can gain from it.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?19175-Steering-Rack-Install-Setup-Procedure

I like that the fact that you said you used the 87-93 rack. I think that this might just be the simple case that I bought the wrong rack? I ordered the one for a 79-93 which might just be a slight bit shorter that the one that you purchased. All this information is very valuable and I appreciate the input but I think that my best bet is to call FR and get some outer dimensions from their technical department. I may just need to get the rack that AC Bill mentioned and sit on the one that I already bought until we can ship returns again. On the flip side, I did manage to find a few companies that offer a 2" extension for mustang racks but I'll talk to FR first to see if they will work before I start ripping this thing out of its packaging.

[AC Bill]

Looking at Flaming Rivers on-line catalogue, it looks like all the racks are listed as 79-93. I don't know if they were listed like that eleven years ago when I built my roadster. I just know the rack I bought was meant to fit 87-93 Mustangs, which suited the spindles I was using from a 90 GT. They could very well fit all the cars back to 79.

As I mentioned in my first post, I used the longer tie rod ends, which at a glance are about 6" or longer. How long are your tie rod ends?
I know the stock Mustang ones wouldn't be long enough, except maybe if the inner rod extensions (which FFR provided with the kit) were used. I never did try them, I just went with the longer tie rod ends, using the, keep it simple, method..:) No issues with bump steer, they seem to work just great.

[Snakeskin347]

Looking at Flaming Rivers on-line catalogue, it looks like all the racks are listed as 79-93. I don't know if they were listed like that eleven years ago when I built my roadster. I just know the rack I bought was meant to fit 87-93 Mustangs, which suited the spindles I was using from a 90 GT. They could very well fit all the cars back to 79.

As I mentioned in my first post, I used the longer tie rod ends, which at a glance are about 6" or longer. How long are your tie rod ends?
I know the stock Mustang ones wouldn't be long enough, except maybe if the inner rod extensions (which FFR provided with the kit) were used. I never did try them, I just went with the longer tie rod ends, using the, keep it simple, method..:) No issues with bump steer, they seem to work just great.

I just checked, my outers are 6" exactly. Going by the measurement of the previous rack they literally but up to the ends before any thread engagement to get the width that I need. I'm going to try to get 2" inner extensions with a M14x1.5 thread and I will be good. If they are not available I will try another route.

[Snakeskin347]

OK.... I just went out to the garage with an open mind to try to see if I was missing something here.... could I not just flip these outer tie rod mounting points around to gain a couple of inches?

145630

[Norm B]

You would have to swap them side to side so the taper in the hole was still properly orientated. Not sure how that changes the steering geometry. Hopefully one of the experts on the forum can answer that.

Norm

[Hoooper]

FFR has made a bunch of changes over the years to improve steering/help with bump steer. That includes moving the control arm mounting locations. I dont know how any other generations would relate to the mkiv steering dimensions but I would be hesitant to apply anything from previous generations to the steering on your mkiv.

[AC Bill]

OK.... I just went out to the garage with an open mind to try to see if I was missing something here.... could I not just flip these outer tie rod mounting points around to gain a couple of inches?145630

Did you read this thread yet? Might offer some insight..

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?39488-Outer-Tie-Rods-Up-or-Down