Ordered a 363 Stroker from Craft Performance

[caesarmascetti]

Hi Guys, I'm psyched just ordered a 363 Craft Performance. The motor will replace my 347 Stroker, the 363 should dyno at about 500hp. I'd like some opinions from you guys on the form. My current 347 uses a 650cfm QuickFuel with vacuum secondaries. I've read some of the forum posts, and am still undecided on Vacuum versus Mechanical secondaries. I don't do any strip or ttrack driving I do put on 5000+ miles between March and end of NOV everything from backroads to highway.

The engine will be broken in on the dyno and tuned in before it's shipped. Which is the better carb for a street application vacuum or mechanical secondaries, Pros and Cons of each? The carb will be 750cfm. This is a link to their motor https://craftperformanceengines.com/crate4.html


Thanks in advance

PS

edelbrock performer rpm dual plane manifold, 3.73 gears

[GoDadGo]

Nice Engine Upgrade!

[cob427sc]

If the car is primarially a street machine, I would go with the vacuum secondaries. Mechanicals are nice for hard acceleration but will also reduce your mileage. If that's not an issue and you expect to do a lot of hard acceleration, go with the mechanicals. Last roadster I built ran dual quads with mechanical on the primaries and vaccuum secondaries. Accelerated hard when dialed in and mileage was acceptable. This was on a worked over Blueprint 347.

[FF33rod]

I'd be asking Craft that question

Congrats on the upgrade!

Steve

[caesarmascetti]

I'm counting the days. Yup it will be

[caesarmascetti]

I have, and everyone I ask seems non-committal I spoke with Lance at length and there doesn't seem to be a cut and dry answer, that's why I'm asking for experiences from others

[first time builder]

My findings for many years working on all brand engines is mechanical for stick shift, light car. Vacuum on Auto trans and heavy car. 750 might be a little large depending on cam. But if Craft says 750 go with it. I personally like quick fuel carbs.

[CaptB]

How long until ship?

[johnnybgoode]

Nice motor, congrats. What is it designed to spin up to? Specs say Max RPM is 6250 but dyno sheet shows it being spun to 7200?

I've got a QF 650-SS on a 414W stroker with similar internals, mechanical secondaries, TKO and 3.55 gears. Car runs great, cam peaks at 6000 and pulls like a train from just off idle and will cruise all day at 1300 RPM. On these light cars with a 5 speed and higher gears I think MS is the way to go. Better throttle response and much more tuning capability than VS. If you are thinking about dropping down from your 3.73's then maybe VS might make more sense. Whatever carb you decide on assume you are going to get Craft to tune it on your motor during the dyno session? My engine builder found a couple of issues with my build that would have been difficult to diagnose without the dyno break-in/tune. Enjoy but be careful spinning that motor all the way up if it's really tuned for 7200. Just my 2 cents. Scott

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jao9vziGZl0

[Jim1855]

After having played with two vac & choke carbs and then three mechanical no choke carbs I'd never consider a vac / choke again. About 60k miles w/o a choke or vac.

The cars are light and respond well to the mechanical double pumper. One or two pumps and fire it up, yup you might need to feather it for a minute but that's just about enough time to get situated and latch belts.

Carb sizing. I run a 780 on my 427W and spin 7,000. Doesn't run out of juice. I'd think a 750 is on the upper end of what you need for a 363 especially if just street driving. A smaller carb will be more responsive and most likely run better at lower RPM cruising ranges but the cam, manifold and other components have a lot to do with this as well.

Jim

[caesarmascetti]

Nice motor, congrats. What is it designed to spin up to? Specs say Max RPM is 6250 but dyno sheet shows it being spun to 7200?

I've got a QF 650-SS on a 414W stroker with similar internals, mechanical secondaries, TKO and 3.55 gears. Car runs great, cam peaks at 6000 and pulls like a train from just off idle and will cruise all day at 1300 RPM. On these light cars with a 5 speed and higher gears I think MS is the way to go. Better throttle response and much more tuning capability than VS. If you are thinking about dropping down from your 3.73's then maybe VS might make more sense. Whatever carb you decide on assume you are going to get Craft to tune it on your motor during the dyno session? My engine builder found a couple of issues with my build that would have been difficult to diagnose without the dyno break-in/tune. Enjoy but be careful spinning that motor all the way up if it's really tuned for 7200. Just my 2 cents. Scott

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jao9vziGZl0

Thanks, yeah wrong graph on the website I'm asking him to use a dual plane performer rpm instead of the single plane for added torque lower down, combined witht a super sucker 1/2" machined spacer. The engine in that configuration should make just around 500-515hp (one he just completed in a similar config.dynoed at 512hp). The prevailing wisdom seems to be mech secondaries, but I've a had a vac secondary QF on my 347 for 10,000 miles and it's been no problem. Then I noticed FORTE uses vac secondaries with most of his engine packages as well so it has me second guessing. Yes full dyno break in

[caesarmascetti]

How long until ship?

should be the end of April

[caesarmascetti]

After having played with two vac & choke carbs and then three mechanical no choke carbs I'd never consider a vac / choke again. About 60k miles w/o a choke or vac.

The cars are light and respond well to the mechanical double pumper. One or two pumps and fire it up, yup you might need to feather it for a minute but that's just about enough time to get situated and latch belts.

Carb sizing. I run a 780 on my 427W and spin 7,000. Doesn't run out of juice. I'd think a 750 is on the upper end of what you need for a 363 especially if just street driving. A smaller carb will be more responsive and most likely run better at lower RPM cruising ranges but the cam, manifold and other components have a lot to do with this as well.

Jim


Yup, I understand I keep seeing places like FORTE offering engine packages with vacuum secondary carbs on them and it has me wondering. The 347 I have now also has a QF 600VS and it's worked like a charm for 10,000 miles. So I was curious. Your rule of thumb about a light car makes sense to me though See Forte's https://fortesparts.com/product/dart-363w-ford-motor-turnkey-packaging/

[Jim1855]

The vacs may be easier to tune and probably cover up some poor tuning. Whatever is tuned on an engine dyno will get you close but the road will be different. You'll find stumbles and flat spots that aren't apparent on an engine dyno where all they do is make a max power pull or two. A chassis dyno will help to resolve most of the driving conditions if the operator/tuner knows what they're doing.

A friend bought a Craft 462W. Came with a 750 vac/choke carb. Didn't perform as was expected on a Mustang chassis dyno, was down about 10% from what was promised. The carb was the choke point. He switched to a Holley 850 Ultra XP, power went up to much closer to what was expected, drove better too.

Unfortunately it's often a trial & error process. It's just money.

Jim

[dstelter]

Well i hope you have better luck then me with the completion date. I've got a 408/410 SP crate motor on order with them to go into my Gen 3 coupe. Its been 21 months and still waiting. According to Lance its been delays with the Tariff tax and now Covid. Talking with Lance its been Pistons, crank and rods that we are still waiting on. I've come to a spot in my build that its time for the body and paint. so now its off to get that done, hoping that they might get finished at the same time. Excited to finish and start enjoying my coupe. Doug

[RoadRacer]

I love the 650 double pumper and have used on many light cars like this, and wouldn't go for a vacuum secondary - but as you say, you'll hear a lot of opinions!

[edwardb]

My first build had a vacuum secondary Holley and never could get it to run right. Tried everything. When I saw multiple threads citing the same issues I ditched it. Changed to a Quick Fuel double pumper and it was like I changed engines. That was 10 years ago. Did another build with a carb and it was a Quick Fuel SS double pumper from the start. Tuned properly with a wide band tuner and it was excellent. As stated, for a light, manual shift car, double pumpers are the way to go.

[caesarmascetti]

Well i hope you have better luck then me with the completion date. I've got a 408/410 SP crate motor on order with them to go into my Gen 3 coupe. Its been 21 months and still waiting. According to Lance its been delays with the Tariff tax and now Covid. Talking with Lance its been Pistons, crank and rods that we are still waiting on. I've come to a spot in my build that its time for the body and paint. so now its off to get that done, hoping that they might get finished at the same time. Excited to finish and start enjoying my coupe. Doug

I originally ordered in early Feb, and the date has gone from 1st week in April to the end of April. I hope it doesn't stretch too far over that.

[caesarmascetti]

The vacs may be easier to tune and probably cover up some poor tuning. Whatever is tuned on an engine dyno will get you close but the road will be different. You'll find stumbles and flat spots that aren't apparent on an engine dyno where all they do is make a max power pull or two. A chassis dyno will help to resolve most of the driving conditions if the operator/tuner knows what they're doing.

A friend bought a Craft 462W. Came with a 750 vac/choke carb. Didn't perform as was expected on a Mustang chassis dyno, was down about 10% from what was promised. The carb was the choke point. He switched to a Holley 850 Ultra XP, power went up to much closer to what was expected, drove better too.

Unfortunately it's often a trial & error process. It's just money.

Jim


That's what I was thinking, since the vacuum secondaries will only allow the secondaries to open only as much as needed by the engine, they are less sensitive to tuning. My thinking is once they're run in on a dyno, there's less work to be done that a mechanical secondary carb because the demands of the engine (vacuum) regulates how much the blades of the secondaries open at any given time. Am I wrong?

[Jim1855]

Not wrong but sure missing out on the fun.

[tonywy]

I just ordered a carb from AED Performance. My thought was if you are going to spend money on a carb why buy an out of the box carb. So I ordered their "750 HO Modified " offering. This carb is just about spot on only idle adjustment and very responsive. This is on my 460 big block, 750 double pumper mechanical secondaries, no choke.

[caesarmascetti]

Nice, and another PA car

[edwardb]

That's what I was thinking, since the vacuum secondaries will only allow the secondaries to open only as much as needed by the engine, they are less sensitive to tuning. My thinking is once they're run in on a dyno, there's less work to be done that a mechanical secondary carb because the demands of the engine (vacuum) regulates how much the blades of the secondaries open at any given time. Am I wrong?

That's the theory and what I was told (by a forum vendor...) when I bought my first vacuum secondary carb. What I found in the real world was the vacuum secondaries didn't respond the way they were supposed to and it had acceleration bogs that just wouldn't tune out. Again, attributed based on my research to the light weight of the car, manual transmission, and (often) less than optimal vacuum signals in our engines. When the proposed solutions involved physically modifying the carb including special sized drills I gave up. Vacuum secondary carbs are often on the lower end of the food chain and many don't have the same adjustable parts as a higher end double pumper like the Quick Fuel SS carbs I started using. Any carb needs to be tuned. Once it's set, shouldn't need to mess with it any further. I just don't know why you would go the expense and work of a custom engine and bolt on a vacuum secondary carb. My opinion obviously.

[caesarmascetti]

That's the theory and what I was told (by a forum vendor...) when I bought my first vacuum secondary carb. What I found in the real world was the vacuum secondaries didn't respond the way they were supposed to and it had acceleration bogs that just wouldn't tune out. Again, attributed based on my research to the light weight of the car, manual transmission, and (often) less than optimal vacuum signals in our engines. When the proposed solutions involved physically modifying the carb including special sized drills I gave up. Vacuum secondary carbs are often on the lower end of the food chain and many don't have the same adjustable parts as a higher end double pumper like the Quick Fuel SS carbs I started using. Any carb needs to be tuned. Once it's set, shouldn't need to mess with it any further. I just don't know why you would go the expense and work of a custom engine and bolt on a vacuum secondary carb. My opinion obviously.

Got it and that makes sense, again it's about experiences. My current engine is a 347 Stroker with a QF VS carb, so vacuum seondaries. The carb was recommended to me by Mike Forte. My experience over 10,000+ miles has been that it works well, though the cam in my 347 is not that radical so it's probably getting a good vacuum signal, I have 10:1 comp and AFR 185 heads. There is no bog or hesitation. QF also has an different system to regulate how the secondary blades open, instead of swapping springs they have a set screw. Screwing it in delays the opening, screwing it out opens them sooner so no need to mess with springs and adjustability is more percise.

[GFX2043mtu]

Lol, I can say Jim1855 is spot on as I’m that guy. I prefer to keep my experience not in a public forum for various reasons. PM me and we can discuss this in detail. As I have first had experience with what your dealing with.

[rich grsc]

Now swap out the rear gears and go have fun.:)

[caesarmascetti]

3.73 gears already

[rich grsc]

3.73 gears already
Wrong gear set for a big engine. A better fit would be 3:31 or a 3:55

[caesarmascetti]

yup, but that 363 is a spinner not like a 351 based 400+ cubic inch Windsor, not as much torque. I'm good with the 3.73's puts me at right around 2,000rpm at 70mph in 5th

[GoDadGo]

yup, but that 363 is a spinner not like a 351 based 400+ cubic inch Windsor, not as much torque. I'm good with the 3.73's puts me at right around 2,000rpm at 70mph in 5th

If you are running 315's or any 25.7" tall tire then you'll be spinning that thing 6,000 RPM at 123.00 MPH at the top of 4th Gear.
If you have to spin it up to 6,500 RPM to complete the quarter-mile, then you'll be running down the road at 133.25 MPH.
All I can say is that you will be shocking a ton of folks when you make a few passes down your local 1,320' Drag Strip.

Get some sticky tires on the car as soon as you get your engine installed because you will need them!

[Avalanche325]

Cobras are light-weight. Mechanical is a better fit in my opinion. The old "vacuum for street, mechanical for track" doesn't really apply. Yes, you have to learn to drive it a bit more. But isn't really driving what a Cobra is all about?

I have a 500hp 347 and am running 3:31 and a TKO 600 and blow the tires off at 1/2 throttle in 1st gear. You are going to run out of 1st gear pretty quick.




Mileage??? ...................That's funny.

[RoadRacer]

Mileage??? ...................That's funny.

I can't keep gas in my tank long enough to calculate mileage. Every time I go out I need to fill the tank it seems. LOL

[Mag]

In your post you say you are going with the Edelbrock Performer RPM. In the link to Craft Performance it lists the Victor JR. The Performer RPM will cost you a lot of power and the ports may not match the heads. I bought a Ford Racing Z2 427 and started
with the Performer RPM. It went ok but didn't seem like the rated 535 hp. A friend of mine told me that the manifold was made for stock heads and the ports don't match up to high flow aftermarket heads. I removed the carb and put a fiber optic cam down the ports and found he was correct. The ports on the manifold were more than 1/8" below the ports on the heads. I bought a Victor Jr and installed it. Put the snake cam down the ports and bingo - matched up perfectly. I was afraid of losing my low end and driveability with a single plane manifold, but it didn't happen. Gained power everywhere. Here's why. The manifold's RPM range is 3500 to 7500 - for a 351w. When you bore and stroke to 427 everything changes. The Victor Jr for your motor is designed for a 302. When you stroke it to 363 that all changes. My mk4 is an animal now. Talk it over with Craft before you buy the Performer RPM.

[caesarmascetti]

In your post you say you are going with the Edelbrock Performer RPM. In the link to Craft Performance it lists the Victor JR. The Performer RPM will cost you a lot of power and the ports may not match the heads. I bought a Ford Racing Z2 427 and started
with the Performer RPM. It went ok but didn't seem like the rated 535 hp. A friend of mine told me that the manifold was made for stock heads and the ports don't match up to high flow aftermarket heads. I removed the carb and put a fiber optic cam down the ports and found he was correct. The ports on the manifold were more than 1/8" below the ports on the heads. I bought a Victor Jr and installed it. Put the snake cam down the ports and bingo - matched up perfectly. I was afraid of losing my low end and driveability with a single plane manifold, but it didn't happen. Gained power everywhere. Here's why. The manifold's RPM range is 3500 to 7500 - for a 351w. When you bore and stroke to 427 everything changes. The Victor Jr for your motor is designed for a 302. When you stroke it to 363 that all changes. My mk4 is an animal now. Talk it over with Craft before you buy the Performer RPM.

I will definitely talk to them part of the package is port matching the manifold to the heads I’m thinking they can do this with a performer or p.m. as well he did say he is built 363’s with performer RPMs before they lose about 30 hp he generally gets about 540 or so with a single playing intake with a port match do plain he gets 512 but he told me has a much a thicker to work curve below 5000 RPM

[Mag]

Maybe the 363 is different, but my 427 loves the Victor Jr. Generally, port matching is minor surgery - a little grinding here and there. In my case it would have been more than that as the manifold was lower than the heads. more than 1/8" would of had to been ground off the bottom of the head ports and contoured back, and at least that much to the top of the manifold ports. I didn't want to have to cut into the heads. I was a little apprehensive about running a single plane on the street. I've always been told that a dual plane is best for the street and have always done just that on my other motors.

[caesarmascetti]

an interesting article they use a modded 351 Windsor in the comparison but interesting results: https://www.hotrod.com/articles/dyno-test-single-plane-versus-dual-plane-intakes/

[rich grsc]

Maybe the 363 is different, but my 427 loves the Victor Jr. Generally, port matching is minor surgery - a little grinding here and there. In my case it would have been more than that as the manifold was lower than the heads. more than 1/8" would of had to been ground off the bottom of the head ports and contoured back, and at least that much to the top of the manifold ports. I didn't want to have to cut into the heads. I was a little apprehensive about running a single plane on the street. I've always been told that a dual plane is best for the street and have always done just that on my other motors.
Quite a bit difference, 363 is based on the short deck 302 block, the tall deck 351 block is used to build the 427.

[GoDadGo]

The one thing people forget to take into account in our little cars when picking cams, heads & intake manifolds, is the Extreme Lack of Weight compared to production cars.
I'm running a Single-Plane Team-G on a 383 SBC & bottom-end torque isn't a problem and it pulls well across the entire RPM range making it a tire boiler in 1st, 2nd & 3rd.
Yes, the Dual-Plane is the best option for a mild street engine because they work well from 1,500-6,500 RPM; however, you can't assume that a Single-Plane won't work.
The lack of weight of your car in conjunction with your 3.73 rear gears all work in favor of the Single-Plane and the added displacement of the 363 will too.
A Double-Pumper Holley Style or another mechanical secondary carb will be your better option compared to your existing vacuum secondary carb.

.Your 363 Will Be A High-Revving Beast, Especially With The 3.73 Rear Gears!

Controlling Traction Will Be Your Biggest Issue With Either Intake You Choose!

[Mag]

Quite a bit difference, 363 is based on the short deck 302 block, the tall deck 351 block is used to build the 427.

I understand that. What I am saying is that the manifolds are designed for a 302 cid motor. When you add the extra cubes of a stroker the rated rpm range of the manifold changes.
Just trying to help the guy out by not going through all the trouble that I encountered. GoDadGo is right about the lack of weight. Makes a huge difference in the way everything behaves.

[GoDadGo]

Well Stated Mr. Mag!

My Weiand Team-G is rated from 2,800-7,200 RPM's on a typical 350 SBC..........................(4.000" Bore)
Install that intake on a 383 SBC and it calms things down to 2,560-6,575 RPM.....................(4.030" Bore)
The big advantage of the 363 is that it Unshrouds The Valves because of the bigger bore.......(4.125" vs 4.030" Bore)

[Mag]

Well Stated Mr. Mag!

My Weiand Team-G is rated from 2,800-7,200 RPM's on a typical 350 SBC..........................(4.000" Bore)
Install that intake on a 383 SBC and it calms things down to 2,560-6,575 RPM.....................(4.030" Bore)
The big advantage of the 363 is that it Unshrouds The Valves because of the bigger bore.......(4.125" vs 4.030" Bore)

Finally someone that understands what I've been saying. Sometimes it's hard to relearn what we were previously taught. These cars are so different from say a muscle car, which I have a lot more experience with.
Most of it is due to the light weight. For instance, I never dreamed I would be running 22 psi in my tires on a street car. 32 has always been the norm for me.

[caesarmascetti]

Well Stated Mr. Mag!

My Weiand Team-G is rated from 2,800-7,200 RPM's on a typical 350 SBC..........................(4.000" Bore)
Install that intake on a 383 SBC and it calms things down to 2,560-6,575 RPM.....................(4.030" Bore)
The big advantage of the 363 is that it Unshrouds The Valves because of the bigger bore.......(4.125" vs 4.030" Bore)

Ok this makes sense to me, so much of what I do with my car is touring, I'll drive to the Md beaches down a highway tturning 2000rpm at 70mph or so, would the 363 running a Vic Junior and mech secondary carb be ok in that scenario?

[caesarmascetti]

Thanks to all those that responded I'm set on a carb w/mechanical linkage, but I will be using a Performer RPM air gap w/ .5 inch aluminum spacer. I saw this test on 363 stroker testing manifolds, check out the results of the performer rpm air gap vs Vic Junior. I don't think a Super Victor would have enough hood clearence

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-1302-ron-burgundy-part-4-manifold-test/

[CP82AERO]

Have you considered TBI + distributor control e.g. a Holley Sniper kit? Just wondering, it's what I'm going with for my 351W/427, and am looking forward to improved part throttle operation and maybe a MPG.

[caesarmascetti]

Have you considered TBI + distributor control e.g. a Holley Sniper kit? Just wondering, it's what I'm going with for my 351W/427, and am looking forward to improved part throttle operation and maybe a MPG.

problem is, I don't want to buy new headers, and to do it right you need headers with a collector like FFR has now so the O2 sensor can sample the entire bank

[rich grsc]

problem is, I don't want to buy new headers, and to do it right you need headers with a collector like FFR has now so the O2 sensor can sample the entire bank
no, not true at all, just weld a bung on the header is all that is needed

[GoDadGo]

Ok this makes sense to me, so much of what I do with my car is touring, I'll drive to the Md beaches down a highway turning 2000rpm at 70mph or so, would the 363 running a Vic Junior and mech secondary carb be ok in that scenario?

The Victor Jr. has a pretty high RPM range (3,000-8,000) which will likely work at 2,000 RPM because your car weighs so little; however, a dual-plane will perform much better if most of your driving will be at 2,000 RPM....

The good news is that the 363 will pull about the same amount of air at 2,500 RPM as the 302 does at 3,000 RPM so the added cubes will help, but expect the engine to lug down low....My biggest concern with the 363 SBF compared to the 383 SBC is the SBF will likely produce less torque by comparison which may be problematic, especially on the bottom end....In addition, the engine will not be as happy with the Victor compared to the Performer RPM.

I can tell you that I turn 1,700 RPM at 70 MPH in 6th and it works; however, the engine is much happier at 2,000 RPM and pulls hard as hell all the way up to 6,500.

NOTE:...The reason why I am running a Single-Plane Team-G on my 383 SBC is because there are No Duel Plane Manifolds that fit the Tall Port Dart SBC Iron Eagle heads.

Hope This Helps!

[caesarmascetti]

The Victor Jr. has a higher RPM range (3,000-8,000) which will likely work at 2,000 RPM; however, a dual-plane will perform much better if most of your driving will be at 2,000 RPM....The good news is that the 363 will pull about the same amount of air at 2,500 RPM as the 302 does at 3,000 RPM so the added cubes will help, but expect the engine to lug down low....In addition, the 363 has a 3.4" stroke while the 383 has a 3.75" stroke so if you plan to cruise around at 2,000, the engine will not be as happy with the Victor compared to the Performer RPM....My biggest concern with the 363 SBF compared to the 383 SBC is the SBF will likely produce less torque by comparison which may be problematic, especially on the bottom end.

I can tell you that I turn 1,700 RPM at 70 MPH and it works; however, the engine is much happier at 2,000 RPM and pulls hard as hell all the way up to 6,500.

NOTE:..The reason why I am running a single plane is that there are No Duel Plane Manifolds that fit the Tall Port Dart SBC Iron Eagle heads.

This test was a 363 and sure enough the AirGap made more power and torque than the Vic Junior and lower down. Seems like the better match

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp...manifold-test/

[caesarmascetti]

no, not true at all, just weld a bung on the header is that is needed

A friend of mine has his in the sidepipe, replaces O2 sensor every year and a half or so, because moisture gets to it (Holley will tell you the angle for the O2 is wrong). Also, when it's cold up runs like **** till it gets up to temp, which takes longer because of how far away the O2 sensor is. Also, from what the Holley techs and FiTech techs have told me using one primary, sampling one cylinder out of 8 is not recommended as there can be quite a bit of variation as far as mixture goes, they would not guarantee that the system would work properly

[Mike DiGiorgio]

750cfm is definitely the correct size for an engine moving 500hp worth of air! i would go with a mechanical secondary setup. they are much more stable once set up.

[CraigS]

My first build had a vacuum secondary Holley and never could get it to run right. Tried everything. When I saw multiple threads citing the same issues I ditched it. Changed to a Quick Fuel double pumper and it was like I changed engines. That was 10 years ago. Did another build with a carb and it was a Quick Fuel SS double pumper from the start. Tuned properly with a wide band tuner and it was excellent. As stated, for a light, manual shift car, double pumpers are the way to go.
I spent a LOT of time playing w/ vac secondary carbs and thought I had my 351 running pretty dang well. Then all the on/off of the floats I managed to screw up the threads in the main body for one of the bottom screws. Got it to seal but knew it wouldn't survive another disassembly. Ordered a QF SS650AN mechanical secondary carb. First drive around the block it felt like I had picked up 40hp from 2000-3500. That was in normal driving to maybe 2/3 throttle. So it wasn't just at full throttle, I could feel it on every drive.

[Paganini]

Keep a log of the excuses you may be getting from Craft. I've been waiting since summer 2020 for mine. First it was COVID delays, then the tariffs, then the holidays, then rotating assemblies were on back order (I called the supplier and they were not), then there were shipping delays, then there were orders ahead of mine and it wouldn't be fair to go out of line, then there was a weeklong ice storm in TX, then they went to a TX Cobra show for the week, then their machinist was out, then they were out of pushrods. The response is always the same: we'll get on it next week and have it dynoed the week after that. I've heard everything but "My dog ate my homework". All I'm saying is to be prepared for a lengthy wait. If other have a different experience since 2019 I'd love to read about it.

[caesarmascetti]

Keep a log of the excuses you may be getting from Craft. I've been waiting since summer 2020 for mine. First it was COVID delays, then the tariffs, then the holidays, then rotating assemblies were on back order (I called the supplier and they were not), then there were shipping delays, then there were orders ahead of mine and it wouldn't be fair to go out of line, then there was a weeklong ice storm in TX, then they went to a TX Cobra show for the week, then their machinist was out, then they were out of pushrods. The response is always the same: we'll get on it next week and have it dynoed the week after that. I've heard everything but "My dog ate my homework". All I'm saying is to be prepared for a lengthy wait. If other have a different experience since 2019 I'd love to read about it.

That's unfortunate

[zarnold]

That's unfortunate

Wow, I've been hearing about supply chain problems. Do you have a delivery date @CaesarMascetti?

[BradCraig]

A friend of mine has his in the sidepipe, replaces O2 sensor every year and a half or so, because moisture gets to it (Holley will tell you the angle for the O2 is wrong). Also, when it's cold up runs like **** till it gets up to temp, which takes longer because of how far away the O2 sensor is. Also, from what the Holley techs and FiTech techs have told me using one primary, sampling one cylinder out of 8 is not recommended as there can be quite a bit of variation as far as mixture goes, they would not guarantee that the system would work properly

A carb is as good of a choice as EFI, both can work great....or not. :-). As a point of clarification though, the Sniper samples from 4 cylinders as the O2 sensor is positioned after the merge. 99% of O2 sensor issues are as you stated incorrect positioning -or- exhaust leaks causing a false lean and dumping fuel then fouling the sensor. These things are incredibly sensitive to exhaust leaks. This may be why your friend is seeing cold start issues, or he simply has not tuned the cold start enrichment variables. Despite what the marketing says they are not self learning! Your friend is living with a crappy running setup and he could easily resolve.

[caesarmascetti]

A carb is as good of a choice as EFI, both can work great....or not. :-). As a point of clarification though, the Sniper samples from 4 cylinders as the O2 sensor is positioned after the merge. 99% of O2 sensor issues are as you stated incorrect positioning -or- exhaust leaks causing a false lean and dumping fuel then fouling the sensor. These things are incredibly sensitive to exhaust leaks. This may be why your friend is seeing cold start issues, or he simply has not tuned the cold start enrichment variables. Despite what the marketing says they are not self learning! Your friend is living with a crappy running setup and he could easily resolve.

I agree with you, I told him to do it right replace the headers with the new versions that have a collector.

[caesarmascetti]

Yeah looks like mid June or so. I spoke to some other folks in the industry and they all report the same thing

[zarnold]

Yeah looks like mid June or so. I spoke to some other folks in the industry and they all report the same thing

That's not terrible, hopefully they deliver.

[caesarmascetti]

That's not terrible, hopefully they deliver.

Lots of BO's on product going on industry wide. I'm not concerned my 347 is running really well and is still in the car, so it's not like I'm sidelined waiting for the new motor

[caesarmascetti]

Well its hard to believe I started this saga at the end of March. Product back orders have caused quite a few delays.....good news is I'm picking a 363 stroker motor up Tues !!!!!!! Engine made it's first pulls yesterday afternoon, broke 500hp on it's first pull. Many thanks to Mike Forte and I look forward to meeting him in person this coming Tuesday. Mike was a pleasure to work with and made everything happen in a timely manner. a few pics: 154295154296[ATTACH=CONFIG]

[KDubU]

Awesome engine! 500 ponies is a lot, Mike and his team know how to build them.

[caesarmascetti]

Took a road trip to FOrtrte's to pickup my completed engine, with Mark Dougherty big shout out to Mark. The engine looks great and made 498.7hp final run so I'm stoked here is a video of it running and another shout out to Forte's amazing 6 weeks from ordering it to finished dyno sheet and video attached. product154506: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beABgSPHREI

[rich grsc]

So, I'm confused. You said it was a Craft Performance engine, they're in Arkansas. What does Mike have to do with the engine and why is he getting credit for the engine?

[caesarmascetti]

So, I'm confused. You said it was a Craft Performance engine, they're in Arkansas. What does Mike have to do with the engine and why is he getting credit for the engine?

Posted above ran into quite a few delays with the original order at Kraft, after 7mo of waiting I reached out to Forte he was able to deliver in 6 weeks

[rich grsc]

Posted above ran into quite a few delays with the original order at Kraft, after 7mo of waiting I reached out to Forte he was able to deliver in 6 weeks
Thats a shame. I've been to Craft's shop, I was really impressed. I was planning to use them if I needed more power.:(

[North Shore Tiger]

If you are going to sell the 347, I might be interested in buying it. Let me know. Thanks, Darin LeBoeuf.

[Jim1855]

Switching to Forte was a great change with great results. Mike's a stand up guy. I have two friends (one's here) that had long delays from Craft.
Jim

[alexmak]

Posted above ran into quite a few delays with the original order at Kraft, after 7mo of waiting I reached out to Forte he was able to deliver in 6 weeks

Go Caesar, go! Can’t wait to hear it in person!

[caesarmascetti]

Thats a shame. I've been to Craft's shop, I was really impressed. I was planning to use them if I needed more power.:(

Lance is a good guy, no issues with them. They were hit really hard by supply chain for parts. He was a standup guy he just couldn't give me reliable ETAs on arrivals so after 6+ months, I called Mike Forte and he had everything we need for the build in stock.

[caesarmascetti]

If you are going to sell the 347, I might be interested in buying it. Let me know. Thanks, Darin LeBoeuf.

sorry, it's already spoken for

[North Shore Tiger]

sorry, it's already spoken for

Not a problem.