View Full Version : Greetings To All
Greetings To All,
I am new to this forum so I will start with an introduction. My name is Greg and I live in Newark, Ohio, which for those of you not from around these parts is about 35 miles east of Columbus. I am a retired airline pilot with a Ducati Monster and a BMW R1200 RT in my garage that will likely be gone soon as I’m too old to be picking gravel out of my a**. I have found myself in need of a really good project that has 4 wheels and judging from the enthusiasm I have seen from searching this forum I think I may have found what I am seeking.
I was 12 years old when I first set eyes upon a Cobra. It was in the summer of ’65 and the guy that lived across the street from us roared into the neighborhood with this “thing” that bellowed like I had never heard a car bellow before. I didn’t know it at the time but it was a 1965 427 Shelby Cobra dressed in black, and that car was responsible for my life long affection for automobiles and other motorized wheeled means of propulsion. I bugged him for months to take me for a ride in that beast and one day he got tired of me pestering him and off we went. Game over. I was hooked on Cobras at that moment, which has led me here some 55 years later.
You’ve heard it all before….I can’t afford the real thing…I want the fun of building it myself, and so on. So I will apologize for asking questions that likely have been asked of you guys many times before.
I have never built a car, kit or otherwise. I have done routine maintenance over the years on cars and motorcycles and I participated in several restorations of British roadsters. One MGB, one Austin Healy 3000 MKIII, and I personally restored a 1962 E-Type Jaguar in 1986 which pains me to say that I no longer own. Other than that I don’t possess any building skills or engineering experience which brings me to question number one:
Do I have the skills to take this on? I told a buddy of mine that I was looking for a good reason NOT to buy a FF kit but I have yet to come up with one so perhaps you all can weigh in with your thoughts. Go ahead and talk me out of it
If I was to take the leap with a budget of $45,000 to $50,000 it would look something like this:
-Mark IV Complete Kit
-427 or 5.0 Coyote
-A/C, Heater and P/S
-Heated Seats
-Powder Coated Frame
-IRS /w Koni’s
-Wilwood Brakes
-Driver and Passenger Roll Bar (Chrome)
-Drop Trunk
-Black Paint
-And More
Thanks in advance for your help,
Greg
RoadRacer
03-26-2021, 03:36 PM
You can do it, and you're gonna love it. Welcome!!
Alan_C
03-26-2021, 05:07 PM
Greg: I had the same concerns when thinking about building mine back in 2010. First, I think you would be a good candidate for attending build school when they resume classes. Build school will give you a chance to see all the skills needed to assemble one of these cars. I was a electronic engineer so I had technical skills, but I had never performed more than tuneups, brake jobs, oil changes, shock replacement, etc. up to that point in time. I had basic mechanical skills and could learn, all that was needed really. You will find that you will want to buy or borrow many tools to do the job.
I am on my second project now, not a Factory Five. Over the years there are several things I would not do again. Depending on your age and dexterity, you may find building a Factory Five on jack stands is no fun. I would not go that route again. I have a MaxJax lift now, so much better than crawling under the car.
If you go all new parts, $50K budget for a Coyote based build might be tight. If you are willing to buy a take out engine, you can save quite a bit. 427 is just a number, a stroked 351 in a 392 or 408 inch displacement will move the car around with ease. The assembly manual many years ago used to say that 300HP was the sweet spot for HP. I think most would push that number higher. 400HP to the rear wheels will produce a very fast car. There is really no need to push the HP much past 500 because hooking up the tires becomes an issue.
Welcome and yes you can do it, just be prepared to learn and buy tools. These forums are an incredible tool, you are not on your own as any issue can be worked through with the folks here on the forum.
Building the cars will be one of the most satisfying experiences you will have. Take build school and then buy your kit.
Greg: I had the same concerns when thinking about building mine back in 2010. First, I think you would be a good candidate for attending build school when they resume classes. Build school will give you a chance to see all the skills needed to assemble one of these cars. I was a electronic engineer so I had technical skills, but I had never performed more than tuneups, brake jobs, oil changes, shock replacement, etc. up to that point in time. I had basic mechanical skills and could learn, all that was needed really. You will find that you will want to buy or borrow many tools to do the job.
I am on my second project now, not a Factory Five. Over the years there are several things I would not do again. Depending on your age and dexterity, you may find building a Factory Five on jack stands is no fun. I would not go that route again. I have a MaxJax lift now, so much better than crawling under the car.
If you go all new parts, $50K budget for a Coyote based build might be tight. If you are willing to buy a take out engine, you can save quite a bit. 427 is just a number, a stroked 351 in a 392 or 408 inch displacement will move the car around with ease. The assembly manual many years ago used to say that 300HP was the sweet spot for HP. I think most would push that number higher. 400HP to the rear wheels will produce a very fast car. There is really no need to push the HP much past 500 because hooking up the tires becomes an issue.
Welcome and yes you can do it, just be prepared to learn and buy tools. These forums are an incredible tool, you are not on your own as any issue can be worked through with the folks here on the forum.
Building the cars will be one of the most satisfying experiences you will have. Take build school and then buy your kit.
Thanks Alan. Although I think it would be possible to put the car together without Build School, It seems that all who have attended have taken away a ton of valuable info so Build School is definitely in my future. It's only about a four hour drive from my house so other than a hotel and grub it would be relatively inexpensive.
As for a lift, I am at a distinct disadvantage as my garage has a VERY low ceiling at under 8 feet. Although I could fit a MaxJax in, the height gained might not be worth the $2500. I was thinking I would build an elevated frame dolly of sorts which would get me enough lift to make it a bit easier.
As for budget, like every other project I have ever undertaken, the budget number is merely a concept. I'm guessing that I, like a ton of other builders out there, start a project like this and discover that the list of "upgrades" grows as the build progresses and the next thing you know.....$$$
In any event, thanks again for the suggestions, sage advice all. Keep it coming.
Greg
edwardb
03-27-2021, 06:54 AM
Based on your past experience, you would seem an ideal candidate for a build. The build school would be a good experience. You'll see first hand what it takes and if you're up for it. But may not be mandatory. Your choice. One of the big variables is how closely you stay to proven and supported choices (engine, trans, suspension, wheels, etc.) and how much customization you do. Keeping it close to the Factory Five recipe helps insure success especially for new or inexperienced builders. For $10 you can order and download a build manual on Factory Five's parts website. That's a great way to learn more details about a build.
Do you know about the London Cobra Show? (https://www.londoncobrashow.com/) It's practically in your back yard, only a few months away (hopefully not to be delayed or cancelled...), and would be a great opportunity to see lots of builds and talk to owners.
Regarding your build, I'm a huge fan of the Coyote in these builds. I've done a couple and they're excellent. Regarding your potential configuration, I'd question A/C unless you're planning to add a top. I know guys in the much warmer south sometimes add it and say it's helps. But for the midwest, I just don't think it warrants the added complication. My weather here in SE Michigan is probably very similar to yours and there are very few times I think it would have really been useful. But then I didn't even put heaters in my Roadster builds. Just heated seats and that got the job done. So consider the source. :p
You don't mention transmission. The new TKX would be an excellent choice. If you want a 6-speed, the T-56 will fit with IRS. But it's more expensive and a bit more complicated to install. Your 50K budget is probably about right for a higher end build like you're describing. For parts anyway, especially if you use all new. The one variable that catches a lot of builds is body and paint. The price for that is all over the place, from DIY to high end custom shops.
My 20th Anniversary Roadster build configuration was very similar to what you're describing. Build thread with lots of details linking in my sig line below. That build was a few years ago now, and some of the information is starting to get a little dated. But still may be helpful.
Don't know what your timing is. But just FYI, Factory Five is slammed with orders right now. Promise dates are in the 5-6 month range the last I heard. Plus, like the automotive supply chain in general, are experiencing some challenges with backordered parts. It will all work out. But will take time and patience.
Welcome and enjoy the ride.
Based on your past experience, you would seem an ideal candidate for a build. The build school would be a good experience. You'll see first hand what it takes and if you're up for it. But may not be mandatory. Your choice. One of the big variables is how closely you stay to proven and supported choices (engine, trans, suspension, wheels, etc.) and how much customization you do. Keeping it close to the Factory Five recipe helps insure success especially for new or inexperienced builders. For $10 you can order and download a build manual on Factory Five's parts website. That's a great way to learn more details about a build.
Do you know about the London Cobra Show? (https://www.londoncobrashow.com/) It's practically in your back yard, only a few months away (hopefully not to be delayed or cancelled...), and would be a great opportunity to see lots of builds and talk to owners.
Regarding your build, I'm a huge fan of the Coyote in these builds. I've done a couple and they're excellent. Regarding your potential configuration, I'd question A/C unless you're planning to add a top. I know guys in the much warmer south sometimes add it and say it's helps. But for the midwest, I just don't think it warrants the added complication. My weather here in SE Michigan is probably very similar to yours and there are very few times I think it would have really been useful. But then I didn't even put heaters in my Roadster builds. Just heated seats and that got the job done. So consider the source. :p
You don't mention transmission. The new TKX would be an excellent choice. If you want a 6-speed, the T-56 will fit with IRS. But it's more expensive and a bit more complicated to install. Your 50K budget is probably about right for a higher end build like you're describing. For parts anyway, especially if you use all new. The one variable that catches a lot of builds is body and paint. The price for that is all over the place, from DIY to high end custom shops.
My 20th Anniversary Roadster build configuration was very similar to what you're describing. Build thread with lots of details linking in my sig line below. That build was a few years ago now, and some of the information is starting to get a little dated. But still may be helpful.
Don't know what your timing is. But just FYI, Factory Five is slammed with orders right now. Promise dates are in the 5-6 month range the last I heard. Plus, like the automotive supply chain in general, are experiencing some challenges with backordered parts. It will all work out. But will take time and patience.
Welcome and enjoy the ride.
EdwardB....Thanks for the input. I think you are correct about the A/C after having thought about it. Kind of silly with no top and heated seats will make it cozy enough for cool weather.
I'm interested in your thought process for the Coyote engines vs. a 427. Obviously at this stage I'm going to be all over the map until I figure out what to go with but your advice on sticking with the manual for a first build sounds like a real good idea. I am going to try and go to Build School in May if I can swing it and that will help with the decision process of what to order. Having built as many of these as you have I value your opinion so thanks again.
If my geography is correct, you aren't too far from the Build School location.
Greg
Greg,
Yes, you can build your dream Cobra (replica)! Your background in automotive experience sounds very similar to my own and I had a great time building my car. I can assure you that whenever you get stumped along the way, you WILL get the help you need from the folks on this forum. The budget you have in mind is right in the sweet spot in my opinion, but don't be surprised if, after you get rolling on your own build, you let us help you spend a bit more of your money. There are quite a few "upgrades" to the kit parts that many builders will advise you to consider. They certainly aren't required, but produce a really nice build. If you want to see a build from the perspective of a novice builder, you can look through my build thread linked in my signature.
Dave
edwardb
03-27-2021, 11:41 AM
EdwardB....Thanks for the input. I think you are correct about the A/C after having thought about it. Kind of silly with no top and heated seats will make it cozy enough for cool weather.
I'm interested in your thought process for the Coyote engines vs. a 427. Obviously at this stage I'm going to be all over the map until I figure out what to go with but your advice on sticking with the manual for a first build sounds like a real good idea. I am going to try and go to Build School in May if I can swing it and that will help with the decision process of what to order. Having built as many of these as you have I value your opinion so thanks again.
If my geography is correct, you aren't too far from the Build School location.
Greg
Yes, I'm pretty close to the build school. Was about 45 minutes away when it was in Howell. Now it's moving to Flint. Probably 5-10 minutes closer. Here's my take on the Coyote vs. 427. Obviously my opinion (I have a few...) and others have their own take. Hope it helps.
By “427” I’m going to assume you mean a small block 427. That would be a Ford Windsor 351 block that’s bored and stroked to 427. Often now made with an aftermarket block like DART or Ford Boss. An actual big block 427 is certainly a possibility too. Nothing quite like it. And some do them. But not as common and something I have little/no experience with. So my response will be compared to a small block 427. I would boil the Coyote/427 down into four categories:
1. Cost: I got into my first Coyote mostly for this reason. For my 20th Anniversary Roadster, I was planning a custom-built small block 427 with an aftermarket block, good quality components, EFI, etc. and the cost zoomed right past the cost of a crate Coyote. Went that way and didn’t regret it. So, I’ve always recommended the Coyote as a good value if you compare apples to apples. That means new in both cases, and includes HP/torque, warranty, etc. The latest Gen 3 Coyote costs more than previous versions. But they've also upped the performance. So the same value proposition still applies IMO. Obviously, there are ways to lower the cost on both sides of the equation. Then it’s a lot more variable.
2. Complexity: A lot of people shy away from the Coyote because the impression is that it’s complicated to install. Again, important to compare apples to apples. Compared to a straight-up carb/pushrod motor, yes more complicated. But the minute you add EFI, which many do now for good reason, you have very similar fuel pump, return lines, electrical, etc. work on both.
3. Authenticity/appearance: Here’s what catches a lot of people. The Coyote certainly doesn’t look anything like the originals and lots going on underhood with hoses, wiring harnesses, etc. For some this is a stopper. Others appreciate the modern power in a vintage styled car. For the same reason we’ve upgraded to disk brakes, modern suspension components, often power steering, etc. Some also note the Coyote sounds different than a traditional pushrod engine. It does. But not in a bad way (my opinion) and with side pipes nothing like a Mustang. (A good thing.) I actually like the fact that it idles relatively quietly and doesn't shake the whole car. But that might be my age showing. Bottom line, very much a personal decision.
4. Driveability: This is more subjective. But I really like how the Coyote drives. And I’ve had both old school pushrod engines and the Coyote. Starts instantly every time and is happy to pot around town at low RPM and low stress. Happy to cruise at relatively low RPM’s. But stick your foot it in and it’s a beast. RPM's come really fast. Side advantage is that it's surprisingly efficient too. Even though for most this isn't a priority. Certainly the small block 427 can be made to run and drive very well. But at least in my experience hard to beat the Coyote.
Greg,
Yes, you can build your dream Cobra (replica)! Your background in automotive experience sounds very similar to my own and I had a great time building my car. I can assure you that whenever you get stumped along the way, you WILL get the help you need from the folks on this forum. The budget you have in mind is right in the sweet spot in my opinion, but don't be surprised if, after you get rolling on your own build, you let us help you spend a bit more of your money. There are quite a few "upgrades" to the kit parts that many builders will advise you to consider. They certainly aren't required, but produce a really nice build. If you want to see a build from the perspective of a novice builder, you can look through my build thread linked in my signature.
Dave
Thanks Dave, and I spent about 4 hours the other day pouring over your build. It goes without saying but I'll say it anyway that you have done a remarkable job putting that Cobra together and your car is stunning, as are many others I've seen on this forum. As I said before, a budget is merely a concept that one attempts, but rarely achieves. I'd like to stay in the $50k "neighborhood" if at all possible but I'm fairly certain that you guys on this forum will be more than willing to help me blow right through that threshold. So be it.
I look at projects such as this as a form of mental therapy that transports one into a semi narrow world far removed from the noise and chaos that seems so prevalent these days. I do a fair amount of woodworking and I get the same relief there as well.
The other thing about this build is that I have a 10 year old stepson (yeah, I know. What's a soon to be 68 year old doing with a 10 year old son!!) Anyway, he loves cars and loves building things so I look at this as a means to enrich his life and mine in innumerable ways. He about jumped through the roof when I told him I would need his help putting this car together.
The one thing that I'd like to hear from you and others here is what you would have done differently now that your build has been completed for a while. To put it bluntly, I would much rather learn from your mistakes than learn from mine if you get my drift. Right now as you can see, I am not even warmed up with regard to what I want to do but the plan as it stands now is Build School and planning, planning and more planning and to order the kit ASAP. So, your input and that of all the other "brothers in building" out there is greatly appreciated and I look forward to hearing from everyone.
Thanks.....Greg
P.S. How far are you from Colorado Springs? I'll be there for a wedding in July.
I have a pretty short list of things I would have done differently if starting a build with what I know now.
1. I would have done the IRS vs. the 3-link rear suspension, which is already in your plan
2. Do a drop trunk, either of your own fabrication or give Russ Thompson a call (also already on your plan)
3. Do the Russ Thompson turn signal! I just retrofitted it and it is so nice to have the self-cancelling turn signals that work like in a factory-built car.
4. Move the battery to the engine compartment
As Paul stated, not sure I'd bother with A/C, and in fact, I didn't even do a heater. If you live in a humid area, the heat/defrost is likely a must-have. Everything else on your list will make your build a very nice one. Some common parts to consider while building that are easy to do as you go:
1. Fuel tank filler tube gasket (get the Ford part)
2. Energy Suspension upper ball joint boots
3. Breeze parts!
- Fan shroud
- Lower radiator bar
- Radiator cowl panel
- Seat mounts
- Battery relocation kit
4. Drive line safety hoop (Metco)
There are many others, but the short list should get you thinking. I'm about 70 miles from Colorado Springs, but if you would like to come see my car and chat, I'm always open to a visit.
Dave
RoadRacer
03-27-2021, 01:27 PM
You should look at the QuickJack 5000SLX (https://www.quickjack.com/car-lifts/bl-5000slx/) - great little lift IMO. I have low ceilings too, and this was a great compromise
You should look at the QuickJack 5000SLX (https://www.quickjack.com/car-lifts/bl-5000slx/) - great little lift IMO. I have low ceilings too, and this was a great compromise
James...Thanks for the info. The Quickjack looks like a good option for my garage and my old aching back might appreciate it as well. Right now I'm trying to narrow my engine options. I'm pretty much sold on the Blueprint 427 with EFI. I love the looks and the sound. Anybody out there know the difference between the 427 EFI Stage 1 vs. Stage 2.
Greg
From BPE's website:
https://www.factoryfiveengines.com/blueprint-engines-factory-five-engines/blueprint-engines-mk4-roadster-engines/427-c-i-ford-fuel-injected-ho-stage-1
https://www.factoryfiveengines.com/blueprint-engines-factory-five-engines/blueprint-engines-mk4-roadster-engines/427-c-i-ford-fuel-injected-ho-stage-2
Nothing obviously different in the brochures, so perhaps a call to BPE could explain the differences.
From BPE's website:
https://www.factoryfiveengines.com/blueprint-engines-factory-five-engines/blueprint-engines-mk4-roadster-engines/427-c-i-ford-fuel-injected-ho-stage-1
https://www.factoryfiveengines.com/blueprint-engines-factory-five-engines/blueprint-engines-mk4-roadster-engines/427-c-i-ford-fuel-injected-ho-stage-2
Nothing obviously different in the brochures, so perhaps a call to BPE could explain the differences.
Thanks Dave....I'll likely call them with some questions prior to to ordering. Got a call back from FFR and they told me if I ordered today I would be looking at late August for delivery. Gives me lots of time to prep.
Greg