Power steering pump and bracket problem.

[DAVID_T]

I worked with Summit And March to explain what I need. And I almost got there.. but not quite.

351w windsor engine, and the power steering pump and bracket suggested by the above won't work. What pump and bracket combination will work with this pulley setup? I'm looking to make the ps pulley drive off of the crank pulley slot closest to the front of the car, while the alternator and water pump will drive off the slot closest to the engine (are there names for that?).

the current pulley bracket can't be extended without hitting the water pump pulley, and I can't slide the ps unit any further towards the front of the car.
I'm using the power steering from a 96 cobra mustang if that matters.

I don't do this type of thing, as you maybe can tell. So I would love for someone to just tell me what to buy. Thank you in advance!

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[Blue Viking]

First thing that comes to mind, why don't you just buy a smaller water pump pulley. That one looks quite large.

[GoDadGo]

First thing that comes to mind, why don't you just buy a smaller water pump pulley. That one looks quite large.

I think Oystein is on to something because this is the image that I pulled off of the March Performance Website for the SBF.

https://marchperformance.com/ford/ford-small-block-289-302-531-windsor/pulley-and-bracket-kits/ford-289-302-351w-alternator-w-optional-power-steering-and-a-c-ultra-standard-rotation-w-p-serpentine-bracket-and-pulley-kit.html

I'd call March Performance when you get some free time because I'd bet they'll be able to help.

[davekp]

Why don't you drive everything off of one serpentine belt?
My car with a 351 has the PS pump on the driver side and the alternator on the other side- all with one belt.

[Otee453]

I used a CVF Racing system, but it’s a nearly identical design (edit: upon close inspection of your pix, my steering pump bracket is different, but mounting is similar) I also used a Saginaw pump (with pressure reducer installed in pump) instead of the ford pump. My water pump is the Edelbrock 8848 Victor pump

To make everything line up, My pulleys required a ~1” spacer on the balancer pulley and a .125” spacer on the water pump pulley. The steering pump bracket stuck out too far to the left side of the car and hit the steering shaft. I ended up machining new mounting holes in the bracket, effectively moving the steering pump bracket and pump inward. I then had to buy a shorter belt for the steering pump side. Both the alternator bracket and the steering pump bracket sit behind the water pump pulley. I also had to machine a couple bolt spacers (spacers between engine and brackets) the proper length... on the alternator side if I remember correctly

I can take some pictures if you think it would help seeing it.

[Bill_VA]

I have your exact same March setup and here's what I did:
https://www.ffcars.com/threads/my-power-steering-conversion.189604/#post-1660847

BTW, to get the pulleys to line up, I bought some extra CV spacers and cut them down until perfect.

[Blitzboy54]

I used a CVF Racing system, but it’s a nearly identical design (edit: upon close inspection of your pix, my steering pump bracket is different, but mounting is similar) I also used a Saginaw pump (with pressure reducer installed in pump) instead of the ford pump. My water pump is the Edelbrock 8848 Victor pump

To make everything line up, My pulleys required a ~1” spacer on the balancer pulley and a .125” spacer on the water pump pulley. The steering pump bracket stuck out too far to the left side of the car and hit the steering shaft. I ended up machining new mounting holes in the bracket, effectively moving the steering pump bracket and pump inward. I then had to buy a shorter belt for the steering pump side. Both the alternator bracket and the steering pump bracket sit behind the water pump pulley. I also had to machine a couple bolt spacers (spacers between engine and brackets) the proper length... on the alternator side if I remember correctly

I can take some pictures if you think it would help seeing it.

This is nearly identical to mine. What engine are you running?

[Otee453]

This is nearly identical to mine. What engine are you running?

A Windsor.
The 302 block has lower deck heights and as such, the outward spread or length of the pulley brackets would likely not be as long as on the 351 (you probably already know that). I suspect you will not run into the interference problem on the steering pump side as I did. Other than the left side bracket/steering shaft problem, the rest of the alignment & fitment was easy using straight edges and digital calipers. The left side problem would have been difficult if I didn’t have my own machine shop.

[FLPBFoot]

As davekp said. So does mine. March Performance 30326 set. One serpentine belt.

[DAVID_T]

To answer some questions:

Why is it setup this way? Because the guy at Summit told me to set it up this way when I was on the phone with them explaining the vehicle and needs. The suggestion was to run the alternator and water pump (standard rotation) off of the first belt, and the second belt would run the power steering pump. This also explains the size of the steering pump pulley: "This is the one you need".

When those bits showed up, things weren't matching up. I called March and they said I had the wrong alternator bracket, and water pump pulley, and the power steering pump bracket they had was hitting the steering column.

After talking to March, they told me to get the pictured bracket for the alternator, and water pump pulley, and some water pump and crankshaft spacers. They said they didn't have a bracket that was short enough for my needs, and I grabbed one from CFR for my water pump. After that, everything but the water pump hooks up (I need some spacers for the alternator to bring it forward ~0.25", but that's easy).


That's why no single serpentine belt.

At this point; I think it's more work to run a single belt. And rather than starting over at the drawing board, again, I'd just as soon get this setup to work.

OTEE453, yes, I'd love some photos.


I took a photo of that original March bracket and where it hits.
Then some of my current bracket and pump when taken off.

Is the easiest answer a pump, pulley, and bracket?

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[Otee453]

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May or may not help you... but here are some pix

[frankeeski]

Is the easiest answer a pump, pulley, and bracket?



The easiest answer would be to send all that over-priced stuff back and call Mike Forte. JMHO

https://fortesparts.com/product/fortes-alternator-bracket/
https://fortesparts.com/product/fortes-power-steering-bracket/

[johnnybgoode]

To answer some questions:

Why is it setup this way? Because the guy at Summit told me to set it up this way when I was on the phone with them explaining the vehicle and needs. The suggestion was to run the alternator and water pump (standard rotation) off of the first belt, and the second belt would run the power steering pump. This also explains the size of the steering pump pulley: "This is the one you need".

When those bits showed up, things weren't matching up. I called March and they said I had the wrong alternator bracket, and water pump pulley, and the power steering pump bracket they had was hitting the steering column.

After talking to March, they told me to get the pictured bracket for the alternator, and water pump pulley, and some water pump and crankshaft spacers. They said they didn't have a bracket that was short enough for my needs, and I grabbed one from CFR for my water pump. After that, everything but the water pump hooks up (I need some spacers for the alternator to bring it forward ~0.25", but that's easy).


That's why no single serpentine belt.

At this point; I think it's more work to run a single belt. And rather than starting over at the drawing board, again, I'd just as soon get this setup to work.

OTEE453, yes, I'd love some photos.


I took a photo of that original March bracket and where it hits.
Then some of my current bracket and pump when taken off.

Is the easiest answer a pump, pulley, and bracket?

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I run that CFR bracket and it works fine and tucks the pump in nice and close to the block. All that may be required is some adjustments to the spacers to get the belt aligned with the crank pulley. I have the CFR pulleys as well but stock pulley should work fine. CFR stuff is good value and works well so if you need anything else suggest you check out their site. Scott

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[DAVID_T]

Unfortunately, the bracket I am using can't be moved forward without hitting the water pump pulley. I need to find a way to move the PS pump or pulley forward without adjusting the bracket, or get a new bracket.

And since the pump itself is attached from the back, spacing that will make the problem worse.

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I am not a huge fan of this type of thing. Any ideas on a pump that will attach to this CFR bracket and allow me to adjust motion enough to connect to the crank pulley?

[DAVID_T]

Now I am wondering if I am overthinking the whole thing, and if there's any reason why I can't just move the alternator forward using spacers, and run the water pump and the power steering pump off the inner belt, and the alt on the outer belt...

Is there something I don't know?

[CDXXVII]

If you don't mind switching to a Saginaw Pump this March pulley setup works perfectly. I can get you all the part numbers if you like. Saginaw has a power steering pump setup for Mustang rack pressures.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=144963&d=1616441552

[Padawan]

Now I am wondering if I am overthinking the whole thing, and if there's any reason why I can't just move the alternator forward using spacers, and run the water pump and the power steering pump off the inner belt, and the alt on the outer belt...

Is there something I don't know?



I had CVF build the whole package and the power steering pulley was hitting the Steering Rack...looked great but had to sent everything back.

I called March, then picked out everything, while they don't have instructions, everything fit including AC compressor...

My advice would be to replace to call March Performance, replace the water pump...its a simple solution. I have a 302 motor...

Your call...

Have a wonderful day!

[DAVID_T]

If you don't mind switching to a Saginaw Pump this March pulley setup works perfectly. I can get you all the part numbers if you like. Saginaw has a power steering pump setup for Mustang rack pressures.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=144963&d=1616441552

Yes, I'd love the number of that pump, CDXXVII. Thank you!


Padawan, I did call March after things at Summit didn't work out. I was told that their PS bracket wouldn't work. Which one did they send you? Do you have the number on that?

[Norm B]

You have two problems that I see. The bracket you have is designed to be used with the belt on the rear set of crank pulley grooves and with a serpentine system. That brings us to the second problem. That bracket hard mounts to the water pump and therefore has no adjustment ability and thus can not tension the belt. You would need an adjustable idler pulley to tension the belt or engineer a bracket adapter.
The power steering pump bracket for a V belt system does provide the ability to tension the belt but, in my experience, they push the pump out so far that there's an interference issue with the steering shaft.
Your best option, for a clutter free looking accessory section, might be to change your water pump and pulley to the serpentine setup as in the attached picture.
I could make you a bracket adapter, out of some 3/4 aluminum plate I have laying around, that would move the pump out enough to clear your water pump pulley but, that doesn't solve the belt tensioning problem.

Norm

PS or just go with the system posted by CDXXVII while I was typing. That looks very nice!

[weendoggy]

Have you thought about a KRC p/s mount kit for a Type II pump and use both and eliminate that mess. You can make your own spacers for the mount to space it if needed. It bolts to the head so you can put the mount at any distance you need per say. This is a picture of my mock-up on my SBF 347. Maybe give you an idea.
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[CDXXVII]

Yes, I'd love the number of that pump, CDXXVII. Thank you!


Padawan, I did call March after things at Summit didn't work out. I was told that their PS bracket wouldn't work. Which one did they send you? Do you have the number on that?


Please do your due diligence and verify that the parts below will work for you before you open your wallet wide again.

I am pretty sure this is all you need. It looks like you already have the Crank Pulley - March Performance 2033 - www.summitracing.com/parts/mch-2033


Parts List

Black Power Steering Pump - Tuff Stuff Performance 6174B - www.summitracing.com/parts/tff-6174b
Chrome Power Steering Pump - Tuff Stuff Performance 6174A - www.summitracing.com/parts/tff-6174a

Power Steering Bracket Assembly - March Performance 30358 - www.summitracing.com/parts/mch-30358

Power Steering Pump Pulley - March Performance 636 - www.summitracing.com/parts/mch-636



Just for future reference. If you were to get the complete pulley set in my picture for a 351 Windsor it would be the March Performance 30382 - www.summitracing.com/parts/mch-30382

[Padawan]

David,
They sold me this setup with a new compressor, I'm running AC, I've got a stand reverse flow water pump:
Ford 289, 302, 351W : Ultra Mid-Mount
Bracket kit for reverse rotation (5.0L) water pumps single belt alternator & power steering w/optional a/c

https://marchperformance.com/ford/ford-small-block-289-302-531-windsor/pulley-and-bracket-kits/ford-289-302-351w-ultra.html

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Looks Great...cross my fingers it will start in a week or two

[DAVID_T]

Follow up. I picked up the Saginaw pump and March brackets. ... It was missed that I have a mechanical fuel pump and now that I have them I see the error that these are electric pump only...

It's always something. ��

Padawan, did you get yours to start?