Did the original Supersnake really have 800hp?

[NiceGuyEddie]

We're all excited about the upcoming Supersnake auction. Sadly, it's going to be another "win" for the automatics but that's another story. :D

I read that the 1960's GT40's RACING engines for LeMans were 390-425 horsepower.

I understand twin superchargers and the gearing of an automatic transmission might not have been the best for a track such as LeMans, but it sure seems like a big jump to me.

HOW did the Supersnake's engine internals handle 800hp?

HOW did the radiator keep 800hp cool? This can be a challenge even for our Cobras.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Well, The Ol’ Chicken Farmer was known to shall we say “embellish” often so you might want to take that “800 horsepower” claim with a big grain of salt ;)

Jeff

[NiceGuyEddie]

I'd have a lot of fun buying it at $7,000,000 then return it after a failed dyno test. ;)

[toadster]

I'd have a lot of fun buying it at $7,000,000 then return it after a failed dyno test. ;)

LOL sadly there are some people in the world that could afford to do that

[AC Bill]

The first time I ever heard about this Cobra, was in a Road & Track magazine road test article, back in 1968. The road test claimed it had 800 hp, but if that was confirmed on a dyno or not?? The article was titled, "The Cobra to end all Cobra's"

[mike223]

I went digging for the R&T article but only found this pretty interesting article:


https://www.hagerty.com/media/auctions/the-most-insane-427-cobra-ever-built-is-about-to-strike-at-scottsdale/

"Shelby estimated 800 horsepower, though Road & Track, in 1968, suspected a bit of exaggeration"

[bobl]

I've built and dyno'd quite a few centrifugal supercharged engines (mostly big chevys). Rule of thumb is 6 psi boost will net you a 50% power increase. For instance my current boat engine is a 502 with a procharger. It made 500 HP naturally aspirated and 730 with 5.5 psi of boost. So it would all depend on what the base 427 with a cross ram 2X4 intake was making. My bet would be over 500hp, so his estimate doesn't seem to be too far off with the claimed 6psi boost. Running dual superchargers would be to keep the inlet air temp low without an intercooler and still get reasonable boost.

[GoDadGo]

Shelby built only two Super Snakes one was for Bill Cosby.

Here Is That Car:
https://youtu.be/TxjngHRI1ow

Bill Cosby's Cobra Comedy Routine About CSX3303:
https://youtu.be/3-JQksYxgM0

Unfortunately, the fellow that purchased Cosby's car died in it.

[AC Bill]

The Cosby Cobra being CSX3303, was believed to be a total write off, but there has been rumors floating around over the years in regards to it.

One is an English collector, Rod Leach, picked up the nearly-totaled car in the 1980’s, replacing both Paxtons with two turbochargers and a custom hood, also giving it a personalized license plate that read “COB-1,”

Another is that Brian Angliss, the successor entity owner of AC Cars, purchased the car (if we assume that it was almost totaled), restored the car, and planned to sell it at an auction, but Bill Cosby stated that he heard that Jimmy Webb, (from “MacArthur Park”), eventually bought his restored Cobra.

Similar to a degree as the last, but with some extra's thrown in...."In the mid 70's these cars were not worth much and so totaled, did not necessarily indicate that it was truly destroyed. The engine, trans, rear end, and suspension was sold and subsequently used to build a hotrod that went on to win the Oakland roadster show. The chassis and title were purchased by Gordon Gimbel, through his business, Cobra Performance (no longer in business). He was a well respected cobra owner and restorer, and has owned numerous cobras since 1966
It is claimed that CSX3303 is now a reconstructed car. Gordon Gimbel then sold the mangled chassis to Brian Angliss, who was in the process of taking over AC. Brian, in an article published back in '76 in a very early edition of the SAAC magazine, admitted the original chassis was "too badly damaged" to be reused. Hence he built a completely new car, with a new chassis, new bodywork, custom upholstery, etc. It was constructed in right-hand-drive and used a 427 with Webers. Sir Anthony Bamford bought the car and sold it to a friend.. He then repurchased it in 2001, and it was only recently that he was able to purchase, and reinstall the original 427 block and automatic transmission. He had new Paxton units built and the car was returned to left-hand-drive and more original appearance. The car was going to be auctioned at Russo & Steele in the late 2000's, but apparently was withdrawn, when they couldn't produce a clear title for the car.

Some more of the story that came out around the time the car was about to go to auction...Written by Wallace Wyss, Wyss is the author of SHELBY: The Man. The Cars. The Legend.

"Sir Anthony owned the CSX 3303 for much of the past thirty years, passing it on to his friend Nigel Moores for a brief spell in the 1980's, returning it to his collection about ten years ago. It was only recently that Sir Anthony discovered that not only did the Ford Phaeton Street Rod still exist but was residing as a static display in a museum and still retained the Supersnake's original special motor and many other original parts! Recognizing a unique opportunity he purchased the Ford Phaeton Street Rod allowing the respected UK restoration company Gelscoe engineering, to remove the twin Paxton engine from the Hot rod Ford Phaeton and reunite the Supersnake with most of its original mechanical components. The Supersnake's motor was found to be very original with the bearings still stamped 1965! Paxton Superchargers were re-fitted using the original patterns and a correct 3 speed automatic T-6 gearbox was also installed. The original brake calipers were re-fitted and so also was the original rear axle and crown wheel and pinion. The steering has been returned to left hand drive configuration and the dashboard to its original layout. The immaculate coachwork is resplendent in Shelby blue, which is complimented by the black leather upholstery. The auction company says: "Once again CSX 3303 stands proudly as the day
it was presented by the legendary Carroll Shelby to Bill Cosby. " Of course ,Cluxton pooh-poohs the Cosby car, implying that it is not comparable at all to his car since it has been re-chassied and re-bodied. On the other hand those who fail to buy Shelby's twin Paxton might traipse over to Russo & Steele and be able to buy the other Godzilla Cobra for considerably less considering its more checkered past...."

[RoadRacer]

..but there has been rumors floating around over the years in regards to it.

I love these stories. Very similar to many about GT40's - once parts/chassis/etc get reused with new parts it's very open to interpretation who has what. But fun to read!

[AC Bill]

I love these stories. Very similar to many about GT40's - once parts/chassis/etc get reused with new parts it's very open to interpretation who has what. But fun to read!

I agree. The story and intrigue behind the long lost Daytona Coupe, (Phil Spector's car), read like a mystery novel. There are several articles regarding the car, and here is a couple of them.
https://www.manoftheworld.com/blog/2019/4/8/lost-and-found-the-peculiar-case-of-the-missing-shelby-cobra-daytona-coupe

https://www.footmanjames.co.uk/blog/mystery-of-missing-shelby-daytona-coupe

Several years back there was a huge fuss, and much controversy made over a Cobra roadster, that had come up for sale. Several people claimed that the original was completely destroyed, and just the VIN tag was original on the car for sale. The chassis was all new, as was the rest of the car, and couldn't in fairness sold as an original. it was actually a reconstructed replica of the original, and that he just used the CSX serial number from the other roadster.

Some claimed the original roadster still existed, so now there were two roadsters with identical VIN's.

I believe there were a few law suits filed over it. Threats were even made to the owner of a Cobra web forum, for allowing the controversy about it to continue.
Never did hear what the final conclusion was, if the car was sold, or confirmed to be the original, but I suspect the rumors were probably enough to wipe out the potential value of the car.

[Mag]

800 hp from a 427 with two Paxton superchargers is absolutely a possibility. That's less than 2hp per cubic inch from a blown motor- Definitely do-able.
Especially for a man with the know how and resources of Carroll Shelby. Not saying it made 800 hp, since we don't have a dyno run, just saying it's quite possible.

[CraigS]

I am w/ Jeff, the # is 'embellished'. Not that I have looked at many dyno sheets but the chance of one coming out w/ exactly 800HP has to be miniscule. Heck, if he had said it had 806 or 793, I'd be more of a believer.

[caesarmascetti]

Don't forget 800hp in the 60's was SAE Gross rating VS SAE Net of today.....the difference is somewhere around 17% ballpark. So 800hp back then would equate to 664hp today as measured by manufactures.

[Badfish]

Here ya go!

https://store.cobraautomotive.com/twin-paxton-kit/