Lets poll this the forum for dave

[SccrMan13]

I doubt the mpg version will be the first out since the drivetrain is not as easily found. Also added a hardtop option for the guys that wont consider any option unless there is a top.

Sorry for the weird title that is what i get for watching gameday while writing.

[GUNS]

Well here's the problem with deciding this now. What exactly is the track version? What does this consist of? Is it still streetable with just a few track goodies or is it an all out race car? Can we add some track components to the street version? I think we need for info on the differences between the two before we can make a decision. I personally want a street car with some track elements in it.

OP I suggest that you add pictures of the models as they become available to your original post.

[68GT500MAN]

What class would the track version be able to compete in?

[Silvertop]

Well here's the problem with deciding this now. What exactly is the track version? What does this consist of? Is it still streetable with just a few track goodies or is it an all out race car? Can we add some track components to the street version? I think we need for info on the differences between the two before we can make a decision. I personally want a street car with some track elements in it.

OP I suggest that you add pictures of the models as they become available to your original post.

Must agree with GUNS that there are too many variables to make a simple poll work as something definitive. Still, a useful exercise.

[bromikl]

The poll asks which one I'm most likely to buy. But the question Dave is asking is, which version to develop first?

I feel the track roadster should be first. You can't beat it for the good press: "Here's a car that's easily faster than a Corvette, for 1/3 the price - and you can build your own today from a kit - or build a street version available next month." Dave said in the webcast, the running gear for the track version is very close to production-ready. All it needs is a body.

Second release should be the targa top street car. The roadster body would already be available for those who want a street roadster, so they can get started on their build right away. Nearly everyone else will be waiting for a top. Those preferring a roadster would still buy it if it has a top, but not vice-versa. I'm assuming the interiors will be very similar for the two, and both street versions ought to be available at about the same time. Once these two versions are in production, FFR will be selling kits by the dozen.

Third step, go back to the roadster and give it a soft top option.

Final stage, release the high MPG model. The development of that version will take the longest, anyway. I have the feeling some guys won't wait. They'll be putting alternative power plants in the first streetable kit they can get their hands on.

Which roadster body style? I noticed only one of the models has a hood vent. For a fair comparison, it should have been added to the concepts without one. Even after seeing the scale models, I still prefer Xabier's design over the other roadsters. Jim's takes a close second, but none of them are god-awful. People will fall in love with whatever design they choose.

Personally, I will be waiting for Olmos' design. It's not just the targa; its "look" is much more unique - sportier - as in, it belongs on the same track with a Lotus. I really like the short nose and I love the exaggerated wheel flares. It will never be confused with a Lambo, Ferrari, Hyundai, or a Toyota. Some people might think it's a Lotus, and that's just fine with me. :D

[Draco-REX]

Blue blue blue, all the way. Pleeeese make the Olmos design!

[David Hodgkins]

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5454&d=1319303462

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5453&d=1319303461

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5452&d=1319303461

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5451&d=1319303460

[Jeff Kleiner]

We need some shots from "street level"; how they will be seen in real life at 1:1. The photos above are the equivelent to looking at a car from a second story window.

Cheers,
Jeff

[el_jefe]

Being that I am in the PNW, I'll probably have to wait for the targa top, lol

I don't really care for the Tron, er, Rodney's car. It's too much, and the best parts of it (the flared body at the wheels) wont make it to the real version.

The back 3/4 of the Xabier car is awesome, I particularly like the arch over the cockpit and the vent over the engine, but it has way more front openings and inlets than I want/need on an mid engine car. Although if you ducted the hood correctly, you could make the front bumper area into a wing (downforce uber alles!)

Jim's car is the most finished, and that makes it very appealing. I'm not sure that I like the front fenders terminating away from the edge of the body, on a front engine car that is an effective way to vent the engine bay and create a low pressure area, but again, mid engine. But it has NACA ducts, and who doesn't love NACA ducts???

The Nouphone car looks like the front half of an S2K mated with the back half of a Carrera GT, and there is certainly nothing wrong with that. However the black paint and scale model make it hard to really perceive the unique characteristics of that car.

So I would rate them

1. Silver
2. Red
3. Black (although it could move up if I could get a better feel for it)
4. Blue

[ScottKoschwitz]

I chose Xabier's street model. I like the design, and of the designs I like, is most amenable to having a top developed. The mouth is still too big in my opinion, and I can't help but imagining breaking the lower potion of the nose if you enter a driveway wrong and aren't very careful parking nose-first.

I like Jim's design, too, but, living in Connecticut, I won't consider anything that doesn't have an optional top. Jim's design could probably be modified fairly easily into a targa by adding a bar across the farings like Xabier's.

So, maybe Xabier's as the track car, and Jim's as the street targa or mpg car?

[RM1SepEx]

Rodney's car (blue) is too over the top and a hardtop will take much longer/cost more to develop. It has design features that need further work for fabrication and it also has a huge, blunt nose

Xabier's car (red) could be developed to meet both street roadster and track needs and it easiest to retrofit with a soft top, it should be done first

[Draco-REX]

Rodney's car (blue) is too over the top and a hardtop will take much longer/cost more to develop. It has design features that need further work for fabrication and it also has a huge, blunt nose

Xabier's car (red) could be developed to meet both street roadster and track needs and it easiest to retrofit with a soft top, it should be done first
The blue model is already a hardtop.

[GUNS]

Does Rodney's car have to be a hardtop? Why not targa?
http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/thumbs/rodney.jpg

[Movieman]

1)Rodney's car (blue)
2)Xabier's car (red)
The blue one reaches out to me and the red one to a lesser extent
BUT as others have said not all of us live in southern Calif and it rains where I live, and snows..:D
Even with the blue design changed to narrow the car somewhat it grabs me. I see some Lotus in it but the reality
is it looks somewhat like a hotwheels design but one I like.
Everyone has different tastes and David should build first what will sell best and get back some of
that "out of pocket" money he's spent on this project.

[Flamshackle]

We need some shots from "street level"; how they will be seen in real life at 1:1. The photos above are the equivelent to looking at a car from a second story window. Jeff

This ^^^

Also after watching the video I have to say that I am more convinced than ever over the stunning-from-any-angle looks of Xabier' car. Rodneys is my second choice and though the 1st place design contest car does look a bit better in the flesh its still the least attractive in the line up from my perspective..

FFR's rendition in full scale is stunning! but in quarter scale on the video looks strange and lacking for some reason???

So my picks in quarter scale (I think we really do need to see some "street view" shots)

1) Xabiers red street car
2) Rodneys
3) FFR
..
..
..
4) The black one

[Silvertop]

Does Rodney's car have to be a hardtop? Why not targa?
http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/thumbs/rodney.jpg

Or a Roadster, if a Targa won't work............ Check the link below:

http://rodneyolmos.com/factoryfive/v2/index.php

[spaceywilly]

I am really rooting for Xabier's design, I think it looks great. Blue and Black are tied for second for me. They are great designs but I'm not sure how they could work in real life. I really don't care for the silver one, it looks like an ebay body kit tacked on to an MR2. Something about the back end just looks really wrong.

[bromikl]

Or a Roadster, if a Targa won't work............ Check the link below:

http://rodneyolmos.com/factoryfive/v2/index.php


I don't think I ever saw those shots before. That seals it for me. The Olmos design is the hands down winner by a mile. I'd rather have any variant of that car than any other concept under consideration. The others are good, but this one sets my hair on fire. I'd sell my house, my wife, my kids and my dog to own this car. (Well, maybe not the dog.) :D

[skullandbones]

I voted "blue street"! It's so different than anything on the road. I would seriously consider buying one. Either targa or hardtop works for me. WEK.

[SccrMan13]

Well it seems to me so far a street version is what most people are leaning toward. It seems that none of the designs take into account the bar that will be across the door. I really cant believe there has been so little discussion about how difficult it might be to get in and out of this car given the position of that bar and the steering wheel.

[Draco-REX]

The thing about red, black, and silver is that they are all what you would *expect* this car to look like.

[Silvertop]

Well it seems to me so far a street version is what most people are leaning toward. It seems that none of the designs take into account the bar that will be across the door. I really cant believe there has been so little discussion about how difficult it might be to get in and out of this car given the position of that bar and the steering wheel.

There isn't much discussion because FFR has indicated that the chassis design will be altered to allow for door access.

[Draco-REX]

Well it seems to me so far a street version is what most people are leaning toward. It seems that none of the designs take into account the bar that will be across the door. I really cant believe there has been so little discussion about how difficult it might be to get in and out of this car given the position of that bar and the steering wheel.
I think I heard something about that bar being moved or reshaped for the final design. I wouldn't mind it personally. I climb in and out of a racing seat with full thigh bolsters no problem. You can also look to the new McLaren to see how that could be handled.

[SccrMan13]

Ahh i had not heard or read that, and knowing that alleviates a lot of concern for me. Thanks. My excitement level just doubled. I would be ok with seeing the xabier design and let the guys that did the upscale cobra top do one for the 818. Even if it is $2000 it would be worth it for me. I would not buy the silver one as it is now. That model has way to many scoops and vents. I think they should have done all the cars in the same color for comparisons sake.

[willboss]

Wow this was a hard decision. I like all 4 designs for different reasons. I really like the clean lines of Nouphone's design, but I'm not sure about the rear. I love the rear and arch of Xavier's design, but I'm not crazy about the vents on the sides. While i do like Jim's design, there are too many vents, and that breaks up the nice lines too much. Rodney's design is out there, but that's the point of that design, to really stand out. I'll be starting off with the Street version, and a top of some sort will be a must for me. Great job Dave and crew.

[2KWIK4U]

Wow this was a hard decision. I like all 4 designs for different reasons. I really like the clean lines of Nouphone's design, but I'm not sure about the rear. I love the rear and arch of Xavier's design, but I'm not crazy about the vents on the sides. While i do like Jim's design, there are too many vents, and that breaks up the nice lines too much. Rodney's design is out there, but that's the point of that design, to really stand out. I'll be starting off with the Street version, and a top of some sort will be a must for me. Great job Dave and crew.

took the words from me, just the way I was thinking.

[scartaan]

After seeing Rodney's blue car as a white roaster ( see above ), I am moving to the blue car camp. The red car's "mouth" is too extreme and the nose too long as is the FFR car"s. The blue car's short over hang front and rear is a real plus as is the slim waist which should aid aerodynamics. I would love to see rear shots and low down views as well. Getting even more excited!

[2KWIK4U]

Maybe take one cars front (the black one) and put it with another rear (the red one or blue one) to get the hair on fire look we are looking for?

[fritts]

Rodney's all the way. The front end on xavier's model looks awful reminds me of a fish and is overly aggressive for the rest of the lines of the side and back.

[SccrMan13]

Imo. Rodneys front and rear design looks like its missing pieces. I think there is a balance that has to be met. Too radical and too bland will scream kit car. I think they should be shooting for affordable exotic like lotus, koenigsegg, spyker, or the like.

[3000gttom]

i think xabiers will definatley make the best looking full size car, and would work great with a targa design, rodneys massive frontal area probaby isnt the best for aero purposes either, and xabiers middle vent could be for radiator and side vents for brake cooling, and side vents for intercoolers

[RM1SepEx]

re Rodney's design is already a hard top...

yes it is and will not be a 10K kit, hardtops are too complex, that's the point

[RM1SepEx]

I'm ready with cash, Rodney's is not an option

[jkf]

The thing about red, black, and silver is that they are all what you would *expect* this car to look like.

If FF is expecting people to buy the car, they might not want to challenge their expectations on what a car should look like too much. Seriously.

I can appreciate the creativity of Rodney's design, and it's great to push the envelope sometimes, but a lot of people are just not going to want to drive something quite that out there.

Myself included, i gotta say.

I could probably live with any of the other ones, and frankly it might not be a bad idea from a marketing point of view to lean towards something like Jim's with some minor tweaks. There may be a reason why most new cars all look kinda similar and a little bit "bland" -- I think the major automakers do a lot of research on this stuff and it comes down to selling cars. Mazda sold a lot of MR2s; I've never heard that referred to as a bad looking car up until now.

[SccrMan13]

Im guessing you meant mazda mx5/miata because i dont think the toyota mr2 sold well since the production ended in 2007 and they stopped selling them here in 2005. The last model sold only 24,000 in 6 year through around 1200 dealerships. Thats less than 4 per dealership per year. In comparison mazda sells miatas At over twice that rate.

Prolly too much info there but i agree with you that they are going after a different market a wild design might not benefit them in the long run.

A conservative design will age better.

[ElderDragon]

The major problem I see with so many cars on the road today is that they have very little curvature to the side of the car presumably to maximize packaging space, side intrusion safety and aerodynamics. To give the side interest, almost everyone today uses little shape tweaks and side ducts (real or not) and other devices that make it look like it has some curvature. For instance the new Dodge Charger.

I like cars with curvature such as the late 60s to early 80s Corvettes. The Olmos design takes the curvature element and adds the really interesting curved surfaces with sharp creases that have really only come into play with complex CAD software so it ends up being a modern twist on a classic device.

Regarding the width concern, I designed a car with a similar degree of flare that fit the design template so it should be doable. Perhaps the degree of flare will need to be reduced somewhat and perhaps the passenger compartment might need to be a couple of inches smaller but that won't break the design.

The Olmos design is the one that makes me want to buy this car. After the heartbreak of the design contest I had pretty much crossed the 818 off my list and seeing the Nuphone model confirms my dislike of its style. However the Olmos design model looks even better than the renderings and I would definitely purchase that design.

The FFR model is an absolute no-go as is the Nuphone. The Xabier design is pretty nice although quite a few notches below the Olmos design to me.

[jkf]

Im guessing you meant mazda mx5/miata because i dont think the toyota mr2 sold well since the production ended in 2007 and they stopped selling them here in 2005. The last model sold only 24,000 in 6 year through around 1200 dealerships. Thats less than 4 per dealership per year. In comparison mazda sells miatas At over twice that rate.


Naw, I was talking about the MR2, but I guess i had mazda on my brain at the time... :o

Of course the miata is sort of a poster boy for bland sports car styling but has been really popular for a really long time, so maybe that does tell us something.

You're right on the sales figures for the last gen MR2 though; I thought they were a little more popular.

http://mr2wiki.com/AllModels/WorldwideProductionNumbers

Even the mk 2 sold less than 20,000 in North America -- seems like you see them around a fair bit still though. Looks like the last really popular MR2 was the MK I -- maybe FF should offer a retro 80s body for the 818!

Actually an 80s MR2 with WRX power sounds kind of fun...

[GUNS]

Can we add Vman's design on Jim's car as a possibility? I'd like to see how many votes that would get.

[adesilva]

I have a feeling that the race version will end up being the first to market. It makes too much sense not to be, while it will not have the largest number of purchases it will gain the largest amount of press (besides the mpg version which may take a bit of time to complete) and on top of that it will be able to be finished much quicker than the street version because it basically wont have an interior.

This will allow them to gain press, refine the car a bit based off beta testers and initial run of race buyers and get the interior to a quality that they can be really proud of.

I am more than likely going to be waiting till some company starts selling all of the necessary parts online in a relatively cheap bundle (Like you can easily find for the gtm on ebay) so i dont need to purchase an actual donor anyway (no room to keep a donor and the kit)

[Silvertop]

I have a feeling that the race version will end up being the first to market. It makes too much sense not to be, while it will not have the largest number of purchases it will gain the largest amount of press (besides the mpg version which may take a bit of time to complete) and on top of that it will be able to be finished much quicker than the street version because it basically wont have an interior.

This will allow them to gain press, refine the car a bit based off beta testers and initial run of race buyers and get the interior to a quality that they can be really proud of...........

Perhaps. Though they really need a market for the car first, which would be enhanced by the existence of a streeter. It is, of course, possible that the track car may wind up being based on the same body as the roadster, which could allow both to brought to market nearly at the same time.

Personally, I think they will bring the "Affordable Roadster" to market first. Just my .02............

[kach22i]

Well it seems to me so far a street version is what most people are leaning toward. It seems that none of the designs take into account the bar that will be across the door. I really cant believe there has been so little discussion about how difficult it might be to get in and out of this car given the position of that bar and the steering wheel.
David H. the moderator said FFR is looking into altering the frame for better access. I think he said "major redo" but I'm not positive.

The main reason there has not been a lot of talk, is because no one has reported it as a problem with a first hand experience. All we know is what they show us.

I did a bunch of visual studies starting with Post #193 in this other thread (see below). I made a few observations, took a few guesses, and left with more questions than I started with.

Enjoy:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?3292-Project-818-Design-Submissions/page5

[3000gttom]

well, i think most people want a street car first, but im not sure any of those designs are the ones that should be used, although i do think xabiers would turn out the best of the ones available

[Draco-REX]

Maybe the heavens will align and the Olmos design will be offered as an option in the near future. I mean, FFR keeps saying that all four designs would be easy to move into production. :)

I can dream. :)

[scartaan]

Dear SCCRMAN13-
Please change my vote from red car to Blue car as I voted too quickly. Also add hardtop and windows a must as I missed this as well.
5478
Click on picture to see why.
Thanks

[dclin]

Dear SCCRMAN13-
Please change my vote from red car to Blue car as I voted too quickly. Also add hardtop and windows a must as I missed this as well.
5478
Click on picture to see why.
Thanks

Lol, the Olmos design is by far my favorite, but I do say that lower grill needs to be tweaked (though not as boxy as the V1 version). Easy enough though, and I wouldn't object to it if it was produced that way, since I have some rudimentary fiberglass/composite experience.

The one thing I love about the way the Olmos facia is designed, is that one can easily change the look. Anybody with some basic FG skills should be able to adapt any of the three different MY02-MY07 WRX headlights, though I think the MY04-05 and MY06-07 versions would look best... or maybe F5 could make it a selectable option during the order process.

Anybody with Photoshop skills care to paste those three headlights in (and play with the grill shape while they're at it?)

[dclin]

I do have a question for Dave though (and I think others have brought this up); why so hung up on promoting either a track or street version (or mpg)? Aren't these cars to be built ourselves? I imagine each given kit will end up as unique as snowflakes. One of the beauty of cars is that (at least for us, and pretty much anybody that would buy this) will have all sorts of ideas of what we are going to do with them.

Exactly what wholesale change(s) to the kit would need to be done in order to have one or the other (I think the mpg version is obvious)?

Bring to where ever you will be officially introducing the 818 two (or three) of whatever body design you chose, paint one a nice, conservative color, etc and call it the street version, lower the 2nd one and put DOT-R tires on some nice forged wheels and label it the track version, and stick whatever diesel engine in the 3rd and call in the green version... and let the purchasing public's imagination do the rest. ;)

[Gollum]

It might just be me being picky, but I'd like more professional photos of these models, getting them in good lighting and from appealing angles before casting my vote.

That said, my initial feeling is that there's just about zero wrong with the red car, as I knew from the get go when it won 3rd place. It's a solid design with great lines. The front end opening dislikes can be easily handled with where that air is going. I assume FFR isn't stupid enough to let ALL of that be opening into the front end. There'll most likely be a "sub front" air dam, so to speak, that blocks off air. This is the same principle that helps the new mustangs be about a thousand times more aerodynamic than the vintage ones that looks so similar. Lines are just lines, it's how you manage air that really matters. It's amazing how such a wide variety of lines can be made fairly effective with attention to detail.

I really want to see more of the black car. I really want to like it, but need to get a better feel of it. I'm worried that I might say "build it" and then the end product might just have some "oddities" that were hard to visualize with our current pictures.

The blue car has potential, but it scares me. It scares me in the sense that it seems too easy to flub. It has to be done PERFECT to really "wow" the crowd. The perportions have to be spot on, and I do see the genius in the lines Dave was talking about, but to pull it off, I mean REALLY pull it off I think would take at least two times as many full size models to really nail it. For that reason, I'd suggest saving it for later if FFR wants to offer multiple bodies down the road.

Jim's car... I like what Jim is trying to do, but I think it needs more work. It's not a focused design to me. It's just got too much going on. Like the back end, I think the cut outs to the sides of the tail light panel need to either go, or the shape changed to go with a theme in the lines. I can understand that they wanted to do something there though, to keep it interesting. So I don't really have solid answers, just input. I think this design could easily be a REAL all around winner, but I don't think what we're seeing is it. Like the blue car, more refinement to get it perfect could really make the difference.

In the end, I think ALL of these cars could/would be winners.

[kach22i]

Dear SCCRMAN13-
Please change my vote from red car to Blue car as I voted too quickly. Also add hardtop and windows a must as I missed this as well.
5478
Click on picture to see why.
Thanks
I am warming up to this design based on the renderings and the modified headlights which differ from early forum postings. The model just looks so unaerodynamic, but then again so is the Cobra.


I do have a question for Dave though (and I think others have brought this up); why so hung up on promoting either a track or street version (or mpg)? Aren't these cars to be built ourselves? I imagine each given kit will end up as unique as snowflakes. One of the beauty of cars is that (at least for us, and pretty much anybody that would buy this) will have all sorts of ideas of what we are going to do with them.

In a word; MARKETING

You have to give FFR credit, between the promotional aspect of the design contest and this follow up product development process we are enjoying. FFR is going to end up in some text books as a fine example of modern marketing using the Internet.

[305mouse]

I wanted to hold judgement till I saw the video on Ustream. The pictures just weren't clear enough on the threads they were posted on. I really wish we would have had a road level shot, not looking down on them.

Anyways. I voted for a street version of Jim's silver car and I'll tell you why. The blue Olmos front looks too much like an Elise for me. While I love it for something different, it just doesn't do it for me. Now with it being a hardtop, they could tweak the body for aerodynamics and make that body style the high mpg one. Dave loves the Xabier R, which I think a lot of us do. So why not make the red Xabier design more aggressive and ta-da, you have your track model. So that leaves the black contest winner and the Jim's silver car. I think Jim's design has that more expensive exotic look. I think it'll turn more heads. I wish the contest winner would have been in a different color other than black, it's hard to see any details.

So my opinion, Jim's silver model as the street car with a targa option needs to be first. More people will see it on the road Vs a track car and word of mouth and interest will spread. I also think more street versions would be sold than a track car and due to the weight, the 818 will already get great mpg's. Tweak the blue Olmos for your high mpg and Xabier R for your track model. Release those two at the same time. Interest will have already been generated by Jim's version and those other two will suite the needs of others.

[BrandonDrums]

Maybe the heavens will align and the Olmos design will be offered as an option in the near future. I mean, FFR keeps saying that all four designs would be easy to move into production. :)

I can dream. :)

Well, I'm pretty sure eventually the 818 will have multiple designs to choose from. Dave keeps talking about the 818 being a "swatch watch" accepting multiple powertrains and offering multiple bodies. I know he's essentially confirmed a Race variant, the street car and the high mileage car. He also has made mention of a coupe version and interchangeable bodies for the main version of the car which I imagine is the street car.

Considering the massive amount of support Xabier and Olmos' designs have received, I feel somewhat confident that the Olmos design will be offered, at least as a variant at some point in the game if it doesn't make this initial production release. Perhaps it lends itself most to the Coupe street variant of the car.

[mekeys]

I like the Olmos design except for the huge front grill area and the tail end..However I saw a lot of other designs out of the 539 that I think they should have picked..None of the top four would have been my choice..

Mel

[wrxtacy2003]

I think going with a street/track car (not really sure of the exact differences really), would be the best to start with. My favorite is the red car from the back up to the doors....I don't like the front at all... It reminds of a bodykitted ricer'd out mitsubishi eclipse. I like the front of jims design more. If I could put the front of the Jim's design, onto the red car, that would be my pick.

Dustin

[wrxtacy2003]

Actually, going back and looking at the drawings of the red car, the front end doesn't look as bad as I think when it is in 1/4 scale..... I guess what I do know is that I don't like that Blue one AT ALL. I would be happy for any of the other three, based on the fact that you can't always have EVERYTHING you want. Especially since what pleases one person, may displease 10, and visa versa. I'm really excited to see what they end up picking.

My other question is, what are the differences between the giant killer and the street car? Since the chassis and running gear is already choosen, what differentiates the two?

Thanks.

Dustin

[AVIONX]

First. Thank you very much for whoever took precious time out of thier lives to create this poll. I believe there is one small tweak that will greatly improve the accuracy of the results. It MUST be split into to polls. You can't ask 2 questions in 1 poll and not screw it all up. Not mathmatically possible. This poll says 1 .WHAT DESIGN DO YOU LIKE BEST. {Good poll question) then 2. ARE A ROOF AND WINDOWS MUST HAVE {Good poll question}

Now here comes the fatal flaw. You can only vote once, so if a targa is important to you, SAY SO, BUT YOU WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO VOTE FOR A DESIGN SUCKER!!!!!!!!!!!

[AVIONX]

All this poll does is accidently split FFR customers into two groups. Those who want a specific design and didn't realize until later that they couldn't vote for a roof, and those who saw the roof option, clicked, and only found out later that then no one cared what design they liked :)

[SccrMan13]

Avionx you bring up some great points and i do agree. Dave said he wanted to rely on the ffr community for input and i was only attempting to help him a little. The only reason i put the hardtop and windows option is that there are some people that the design is irrelevant to since it is going to be a roadster at first. I think there are a lot of people that just want to see a top and windows as an option even if the final cost is 20000. That is a decision that needs to be made with respect to design so that the whole car flows top on or off. Dave said in another thread that the design still needs a lot of work. He seems settled on a roadster, but i think it would be wise to design a roadster that a top can be made for as well as windows. I hope that before the end there are some options

[StatGSR]

All this poll does is accidently split FFR customers into two groups. Those who want a specific design and didn't realize until later that they couldn't vote for a roof, and those who saw the roof option, clicked, and only found out later that then no one cared what design they liked :)

I disagree. I didn't chose Rodney's because it was a coupe at all. I fact I don't really love how it looks in coupe form. I like it because its the only one that has any kind of original style to it and its the only one that makes me go wow. All the others just look like a boring car or a boring car with a body kit that is trying to hard... they make me want to buy a used S2000 and save myself all the hassle...

[Inthenameofweez]

Dave has already decided on a street version first. This poll needs to be a choice of JUST the body.

[SccrMan13]

That would be news since in the video he had not made up his mind which model would be first.

[wooward]

All this poll does is accidently split FFR customers into two groups. Those who want a specific design and didn't realize until later that they couldn't vote for a roof, and those who saw the roof option, clicked, and only found out later that then no one cared what design they liked :)

LoL, I voted for the roof and glass and then I couldn't vote for more.

[CoolCarl]

I voted for Xabier's model but with a stipulation. That stipulation is the it come in a body color besides red. Can't stand red, hate red. It would be silly for me to get the body shape that I like the most that was designed to not be painted and yet its the one color that I cannot stand.

I've made the mistake of buying some red things in the past. Picked up a Yamaha Fazer that was red. That lasted less than 2 weeks before I had to paint it. Yet another time I thought I could handle having something red was when I bought a jet ski. That lasted 2 days before I painted it.

So as long as there are some choices on body color (something besides red), my vote is Xabier's.

[onyx_riddle]

I nearly sold my soul for a Saturn sky redline earlier this year. I decided not to. I wanted to pay off debt and save and buy one. My goodness I am glad I did!

[Inthenameofweez]

That would be news since in the video he had not made up his mind which model would be first.


Remaining silent for these last few days (to allow honest and direct feedback) has been exceptionally difficult. While we are loading up for SEMA I have a few thoughts.

The bottom line is that the car HAS to light your hair on fire, and while the cars all look better in person (I will never forget the crow I ate when I saw pics of the Ferrari 599 and dissed it as ugly and wimpy only to later see it in real life and be BLOWN away-hair on fire, with it's muscular stance and perfect coupe lines), the bottom line is that the car HAS to render a visceral reaction to all who see it.

The GTM and Coupe and Mk4 and Hot Rod ALL have a only few detractors and each enjoy a HUGE number of fans due in part to great looks. Each day I watch as guys literally melt when they walk thru our doors and see the cars. The 818 HAS to join those ranks and even without perfect photos, we are simply not there. period.

I am going to head out to SEMA and consider very carefully the correct path forward on design. We'll probably take one of the four models (probably Jim's) to the show as a potential. Based on the feedback I dont want to take al four models as I trust the feedback from our core group.

The car has to be a Ferrari-level/K1-attack on steroids type car. A beautiful shape that will set FFR higher than everything we've done before. The car HAS to deliver to a guy who has the skill to build his/her own car, a look and feel that is truly exceptional. This may take more money than time as we are so far along in development and so capable on the solid modeling side. I personally think Jims hybrid design can morph into a much more aggressive car as the others can change in ways that can make them look better. I know Micjael Lye at RISD is DYING to get his teams hands untied and onto Xabiers car as baseline!

Going forward I think some real good photos of each, perhaps asking the community to help modify or smooth out some of the objections in each (or pump 'roids into the cars)... Still I am very very grateful for the feedback and can only promise you guys one thing... The car will light your hair on fire or we won't make it. I'll consider paths and suggestions, but wont make any decisons till after SEMA. The roadster is where I want to spend my launch money, followed by track and mpg model, but that isnt set in cement.

Dave

Not set in cement, but he's been leaning towards this progress since the start of this project. I happen to agree with the emotional and logical reasoning behind his thought process...

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?3917-1-4-scale-model-feedback&p=37836&viewfull=1#post37836

[Smythe]

Right now Rodneys version is my favorite but I think I need to see more views/ angles before I can really make a decision.

As for the hardtop/ windows... I think that should be reserved for the high MPG version.
Historically, those looking for a kit car are not looking for a daily driver. They are looking for something unique to street or for a track car.

The high MPG version on the other hand. To make use of the high MPG you would want to be as close to a daily driver as possible so i would think that roof/windows are more likely on that version.

Personally I would rather have the roof and windows left off the track and street version to keep costs and more importantly weight down

[Flamshackle]

I seriously think we will need to scrap this poll and give it a reboot once all the scale models have been shot in detail like Jims one. This will give us real life angles to look at and a better idea of how the details will change the final look. This is a little futile IMO and the fact that Jims design has had the detailing and real life pics done and is still polling at the bottom shows that it really isnt in the running to be the first FFR car.

Clearly though Rodney and Xabiers are the darlings of the show... Sorry but Jims one to me looks great but with a very tastless front. The black one is ok but not a stand out like the other two.

[AVIONX]

I doubt the mpg version will be the first out since the drivetrain is not as easily found. Also added a hardtop option for the guys that wont consider any option unless there is a top.

Sorry for the weird title that is what i get for watching gameday while writing.
SCCRMan,
If you do decide to re-boot this poll. Please for the love of GOD seperate the Body poll from the roof poll. Poll #1. Which one of the 4 detailed models do you most want FFR to launch. Poll #2. Regardless of which body is chosen, what do you want for weather protection? A. Luck (Wishes and Weather watching) B. Just a removable fabric bimini (like a boat) C. A Fabric Bimini with some kind of minimal windows sealing sides/rear (Viper / Jeep) D. Removable Targa panel with roll-up windows and a rear window (Ferrari 308, X-1/9, Lambo) E. T-Tops (300Z, MR2, Camaro)

Thanks. I really do appreciate you creating the polls but this is the second time we have inadvertenly combined the style question with the functionality question which distorts the results.

[kach22i]

A lock on this thread when a new poll is started is an excellent suggestion.

People may still wish to go back and review it.

[BipDBo]

SCCRMan,
If you do decide to re-boot this poll. Please for the love of GOD seperate the Body poll from the roof poll. Poll #1. Which one of the 4 detailed models do you most want FFR to launch. Poll #2. Regardless of which body is chosen, what do you want for weather protection? A. Luck (Wishes and Weather watching) B. Just a removable fabric bimini (like a boat) C. A Fabric Bimini with some kind of minimal windows sealing sides/rear (Viper / Jeep) D. Removable Targa panel with roll-up windows and a rear window (Ferrari 308, X-1/9, Lambo) E. T-Tops (300Z, MR2, Camaro)

Thanks. I really do appreciate you creating the polls but this is the second time we have inadvertenly combined the style question with the functionality question which distorts the results.

If you're going to poll differnt tops, I like to know if there's an interest in a ragtop, which gives the best of both raodter and hard top worlds. I'm not crazy about the idea of an entirely open roadster
5612
Another possibility, that may be more partical would be a soft, removable covering over a a permanent full cage, like the Jeep. This option would allow to soft-top to be folded up into a small package and thrown into the trunk or left in the garage. No need for a clunky, heavy, folding roof frame.
5613
Sorry for being obsessive, but once again, I'm mainly coming at this from a perspective of safety. I really like the idea of a "cage" structure. Another advatage with these options is that they would allow Factory 5 to make the chassis for both the roadster and the hardtop identical.

[mattster03]

Originally, I was dead set on the Xabier model... I must say that the Rodney design is starting to become the clear choice in my mind. I think that the main reason is because it's a car that will never be mistaken for a 'big manufacturer' car with a fancy body kit... it's a completely fresh design and I like it more and more every day. I think it also leaves the most provisions for an actual roof which is clearly a big deal to a lot of us. In the GTM world, there are lots of guys that are already making aftermarket parts and i am sure someone will quickly desing a carbon fiber panel to for the roof that will make everyone happy. I don't think that the curren 1/4 scale model gives the Rodney car justice, it needs to have some hours spent detailing similar to Jim's model... I can't wait to see it with more detail. All this being said, I really would spend my money on the Xabier OR the Rodney; and I think a lot of guys here are the same way. I probably would pass on the car if it came out looking like the current Jim design.

[AVIONX]

THE FORUM HAS SPOKEN!!!

73% OF ALL FORUM VOTERS WANT THE XABIER OR OLMOS WITH A TARGA TOP OR SOFTOP!!!


please :)

[Flamshackle]

THE FORUM HAS SPOKEN!!!

73% OF ALL FORUM VOTERS WANT THE XABIER OR OLMOS WITH A TARGA TOP OR SOFTOP!!!

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!