View Full Version : Hyd Clutch
easyrider
03-07-2021, 11:48 AM
I am looking for some input to help with my decision making. I was planning on using a hydraulic throw out bearing vs. a slave cylinder but a friend of mine has a horror story involving hydraulic throw out bearings and I am now on the fence post. Is the hyd. throw out bearing a dependable option? I have the 33 Hot Rod with SBC and a Tremec 5 speed. Also sourcing clutches and would appreciate any comments on a good choice for street driving. Thank you in advance.
edwardb
03-07-2021, 01:48 PM
I've had all three. A traditional cable drive clutch on my first Roadster. A couple Roadster installations with the Forte external slave hydraulic setup. And now an internal setup with a Gen 3 Coupe using the Wilwood pedal box, a Wilwood 260-10373 13/16 inch MC, and a Tilton 6000-Series Hydraulic Release Bearing 60-6104. The build has been driven just under 2K miles last season. Super happy with it. It's easy to install, self-adjusting, smooth operating, and the effort is noticeably lower than the previous installations with the same exact clutch. I get that the major concern with the internal HRB is it all has to come apart in case of service or failure. But then the same could be said for clutch service or replacement. I went ahead and took the risk and would do it again. I was influenced by the reason that for the Gen 3 Coupe the transmission will come out pretty easily compared to a Roadster. I suspect the same is true for a Hot Rod.
The hydraulic T/O bearing is an easy install but a PITA to service. Doesn't work with all clutches and is not forgiving if you don't set it up correctly. All hydraulic actuators are slower than mechanical but most will never notice. They work great for a street car and the hyd T/O bearing's biggest advantage is when installing in tight quarters they present a small footprint.
Ram makes a good clutch for the SBC and they also have a good aluminum flywheel to go with it. Summit Racing carries them.
Please consider a scatter shield -- they add a significant degree of safety. And don't forget a driveshaft safety loop within 6" of the front u-joint and one at the rear of the cockpit. IMO, these should come from FFR they are not a nice to have but a required safety component. And I don't want to hear about "it's not a race car" -- I've had two driveshaft explosions on street driven vehicles.
Have fun with your build.
Lidodrip
03-08-2021, 08:05 AM
Please consider a scatter shield -- they add a significant degree of safety. And don't forget a driveshaft safety loop within 6" of the front u-joint and one at the rear of the cockpit. IMO, these should come from FFR they are not a nice to have but a required safety component. And I don't want to hear about "it's not a race car" -- I've had two driveshaft explosions on street driven vehicles.
That is great advice, thank you.
VIRGIN MIKE
03-08-2021, 10:46 AM
I have gone from cable to hydraulic slave to hydraulic TO. (347 crate / TKO600). The cable was so stiff it flexed the firewall and just didn't feel useable; replaced with hydraulic slave, had to fabricate a bracket for slave and experiment with MC size to get it working; wasn't happy with results; switched to hydraulic TO. Just a few miles on this set-up but I love it so far - short pedal throw, positive feel - very easy install once engine removed.(Engine builder now supplying this as std equipment on my setup)
AJT '33
03-09-2021, 04:12 PM
I have gone from cable to hydraulic slave to hydraulic TO. (347 crate / TKO600). The cable was so stiff it flexed the firewall and just didn't feel useable; replaced with hydraulic slave, had to fabricate a bracket for slave and experiment with MC size to get it working; wasn't happy with results; switched to hydraulic TO. Just a few miles on this set-up but I love it so far - short pedal throw, positive feel - very easy install once engine removed.(Engine builder now supplying this as std equipment on my setup)
Would you have part numbers more details on brands to share? TY!
VIRGIN MIKE
03-10-2021, 08:49 AM
The clutch is McLeod (supplied with the 347 / TKO 600 crate), TO bearing is: McLeod 1406-30; MC is Wilwood supplied by Factory Five (don't have part #) looks the same as brake MCs.
GoDadGo
03-10-2021, 09:09 AM
I am looking for some input to help with my decision making. I was planning on using a hydraulic throw out bearing vs. a slave cylinder but a friend of mine has a horror story involving hydraulic throw out bearings and I am now on the fence post. Is the hyd. throw out bearing a dependable option? I have the 33 Hot Rod with SBC and a Tremec 5 speed. Also sourcing clutches and would appreciate any comments on a good choice for street driving. Thank you in advance.
Should you decide to explore an external slave, then the bell-housing for a 3rd generation Camaro or Firebird has the provision for that type of setup.
Just know that the stock bell-housings are clocked the transmission about 15-17 degrees.
https://www.jegs.com/i/Lakewood/620/15020/10002/-1?gclid=Cj0KCQiA-aGCBhCwARIsAHDl5x9gXGhoHyuSac3T9pfRx6-MG9gjfWTOAJMkJBscBEJF8Gd5Y5Hb1k4aAuRnEALw_wcB
https://www.jegs.com/i/Quick-Time-Bellhousing/698/RM-6018/10002/-1
tommy23t
03-10-2021, 12:29 PM
I have the setup from Mike Forte with the Wilwood and works well. I have a SBF, but also used the Tremec 5 speed. have 1200 miles on my 33, no problems there.
Good Luck,
Tom
33fromSD
03-10-2021, 03:11 PM
I have the setup from Mike Forte with the Wilwood and works well. I have a SBF, but also used the Tremec 5 speed. have 1200 miles on my 33, no problems there.
Good Luck,
Tom
Same set up on mine.... Love it. Jim
I also have Forte's hydraulic clutch setup. Had a few small issues with initial install and setup but everything now seems to be working good. I thought about the Tilton hydraulic TOB but the replacement difficulty if something went wrong caused me to go with Mike's setup. Pretty easy to swap out a slave cylinder.
33fromSD
03-10-2021, 08:56 PM
I also have Forte's hydraulic clutch setup. Had a few small issues with initial install and setup but everything now seems to be working good. I thought about the Tilton hydraulic TOB but the replacement difficulty if something went wrong caused me to go with Mike's setup. Pretty easy to swap out a slave cylinder.
That was my reasoning too......pull the slave cylinder with the Forte system verses pull the whole transmission (and all the goodies associated with it) with a Hydraulic TOB ....... simple call for me.
Jim
edwardb
03-10-2021, 11:06 PM
That was my reasoning too......pull the slave cylinder with the Forte system verses pull the whole transmission (and all the goodies associated with it) with a Hydraulic TOB ....... simple call for me.
Jim
This is the standard argument against he hydraulic TOB and IMO a little unfortunate it's given that much weight. (1) How often has your slave cylinder failed to the point of removal or replacement? I've driven them multiple seasons with zero attention. Other than to adjust. Which isn't necessary with a hydraulic TOB BTW since they're self adjusting. Like disk brakes. No reason a hydraulic TOB isn't at least as reliable. The brands available (Tilton, etc.) are very high quality. (2) Hydraulic TOB's are standard equipment on multiple DD's. Granted partly because of economics. They're simpler and cheaper. But also wouldn't be used if not highly reliable. (3) Having used one now for a season I can only say again the effort is significantly reduced. Worth the price of admission alone IMO. I'd use one again without hesitation.
33fromSD
03-11-2021, 06:22 AM
This is the standard argument against he hydraulic TOB and IMO a little unfortunate it's given that much weight. (1) How often has your slave cylinder failed to the point of removal or replacement? I've driven them multiple seasons with zero attention. Other than to adjust. Which isn't necessary with a hydraulic TOB BTW since they're self adjusting. Like disk brakes. No reason a hydraulic TOB isn't at least as reliable. The brands available (Tilton, etc.) are very high quality. (2) Hydraulic TOB's are standard equipment on multiple DD's. Granted partly because of economics. They're simpler and cheaper. But also wouldn't be used if not highly reliable. (3) Having used one now for a season I can only say again the effort is significantly reduced. Worth the price of admission alone IMO. I'd use one again without hesitation.
I'm definitely not knocking the reliability of the hydraulic TOB, my apologies if my response came off that way, I've heard many good things about the TOB version as well.
My decision was based merely on Murphys Law ("Anything that can go wrong will go wrong"), so "if" I would have issues, I'd rather deal with a simple slave cylinder swap or adjustment verses pulling a tranny for a TOB swap / adjustment. For me (and me only, I'm not pushing my opinion on anyone), I built the 33 for ease of serviceability in mind.
The phase of life I am now, I'd rather be just enjoying all my toys doing simple maintenance / tweaks verses major mechanical repair.
Jim
edwardb
03-11-2021, 09:23 AM
I'm definitely not knocking the reliability of the hydraulic TOB, my apologies if my response came off that way, I've heard many good things about the TOB version as well.
My decision was based merely on Murphys Law ("Anything that can go wrong will go wrong"), so "if" I would have issues, I'd rather deal with a simple slave cylinder swap or adjustment verses pulling a tranny for a TOB swap / adjustment. For me (and me only, I'm not pushing my opinion on anyone), I built the 33 for ease of serviceability in mind.
The phase of life I am now, I'd rather be just enjoying all my toyss doing simple maintenance / tweaks verses major mechanical repair.
Jim
I tried. :o Good luck with your build.
BTW, for anyone following this thread, Factory Five has somewhat recently been offering a hydraulic clutch option. It too is a hydraulic TOB setup.
33fromSD
03-11-2021, 11:48 AM
I tried. :o Good luck with your build.
BTW, for anyone following this thread, Factory Five has somewhat recently been offering a hydraulic clutch option. It too is a hydraulic TOB setup.
Sorry... Yes, you did try but mine is a done deal anyway, Forte setup already installed, test driven, ready to go. Jim
easyrider
03-13-2021, 02:30 PM
Thank you everyone for your input. It is all good information. Strong arguments for and against suggests I cant go wrong either way. Ill go with my gut and enjoy the build.
RoadRacer
03-13-2021, 05:28 PM
Can I just throw (!) one more thing in the mix.. foot room in the 33. I was tempted to go for forte external hydraulic but I wanted the extra few inches of sideways foot room. But I built aluminum tunnel to maximize that. What room I have now seems like a normal car..
Brastic
03-16-2021, 10:05 PM
I have the hydraulic clutch in my Coyote Hot Rod and the cable in my 302 powered Cobra. The cable just does not last, BUT to replace it....it is $22 and about 45 mins. It takes me longer to put the Cobra on jack stands then to do the work. I was going to move the Cobra to a hydraulic system, but at $22 every 5-8 years, it really does not matter.