View Full Version : Ride height adjusting question
Hello all,
I tried searching for an answer but had no success so I am reaching out for some help on this one and peace of mind...
I am setting my ride height, I have the stock base red/black Koni's with 500 LB springs in the front and 400 in the rear with IRS. I have the car set 4" front and 4 1/2" in the rear from bottom of tubular frame. It is pretty dead on side to side. My concern is my front drivers side front shock collar is compressed about 3/4" more than the front passenger side to obtain a level setting. If I decompress the front drivers side shock and run the collar at the same length as the passenger side the front drivers side will be lower approx (1/2-3/4" lower). I have triple checked shock length (15.5" on all corners), what springs are on front and rear (500 front/400 rear), proper front shock mounting location. I did send an email to Factory Five and they said this is not abnormal and not to worry about it as long as the vehicle sits level, which it is.
The rear shocks are dead equal on the collar adjustments side to side for the 4 1/2" setting.
Am I missing something? I would think the front shocks should be pretty evenly adjusted side to side and not have that much of a difference in the collar settings. If anyone has any suggestions of what I should be looking for I am all ears, pretty stumped at this point and just want to make sure I am not missing something obvious. I cant think of why there would be that much more weight up on the front drivers side area to require a spring to be that much more compressed, or maybe the front drivers side of the car is just heavier?
I have 45 miles on the car in go-kart, drives fine up to 50 mph, no shaking, vibrations, etc. all seems good.
Gordon Levy
03-01-2021, 09:22 PM
Pretty normal but you can get them closer. Scales would help a lot and shock you a bit at the same time.
Pretty normal but you can get them closer. Scales would help a lot and shock you a bit at the same time.
Gordon, where is a good source to acquire these scales? Is it a weekend warrior DIY?
Gordon Levy
03-01-2021, 09:47 PM
Local race setup shop will charge you a few hundred bucks to do it. You really don't need to. wind up the low corner and remember the opposite rear will also effect it. Left front and right rear, right front and left rear.
Local race setup shop will charge you a few hundred bucks to do it. You really don't need to. wind up the low corner and remember the opposite rear will also effect it. Left front and right rear, right front and left rear.
Thanks Gordon, appreciate the clarification and help! ;)
edwardb
03-02-2021, 07:16 AM
Without corner weights, the generally accepted method for adjusting the coilovers is: With the suspension hanging, adjust all four collars so they are just barely tight against the coils. Just enough to keep them from moving. Then put the car down on it's weight, bounce it a couple times, and check the ride height. It should be too high. Adjust the front and back pairs the same exact amount. For example, three turns out on both sides in front, two turns out on both sides in back. Back down, bounce, maybe even roll it back and forth a bit, then measure again. You'll find a correlation between how many turns affects the ride height a certain amount. But always adjust the pairs the same. You should not adjust side-to-side differently unless you have corner weights and can confirm the proper distribution. You may end up with a slightly different ride height side-to-side. But it's typically a small amount, not noticeable, and much less important than having the proper weight on each corner. Not adjusting properly can affect handling up to and including being unsafe. I've followed this process on multiple builds and it's worked well. For street driving it's been more than accurate. A tracked car should ideally be corner weighted.
I had the opportunity to borrow some corner weights for one of the Roadster builds after I'd set it this way. Only street driven but I was curious and had the chance so took it. It was so close we didn't adjust anything. Note, for the record, if you do use corner weights the likelihood is whatever chassis height differences you find using the manual method will still be the case afterwards.
mike223
03-02-2021, 07:51 AM
I cant think of why there would be that much more weight up on the front drivers side area to require a spring to be that much more compressed, or maybe the front drivers side of the car is just heavier?
I have 45 miles on the car in go-kart, drives fine up to 50 mph, no shaking, vibrations, etc. all seems good.
I've got some disparity on the front of mine too - I would have to look to see which side.
But as long as you're go-karting - check the brakes while you're at it.
You can get the corner weights really, really close (maybe "perfect") by watching which front brake locks up first.
So - set your ride heights as described previously.
Start brake checking in a safe area during go-kart rides.
If the right front locks first you need an an extra turn added to the RF or LR or a turn taken off LF or RR - your choice according to your ride heights - as stated above - corner weights work diagonally, and your observed ride heights are never going to be "perfect" to the 1/16".
If the LF locks first it's reverse - add a turn to LF or RR, or take a turn off RF or LR.
Corner weights are not really about "changing" ride height - it's just about getting all the tires carrying equal weights side to side, and it doesn't take much (not really going to affect ride height).
The dynamics of you actually being in the driver's seat (and out on the road) make a fairly significant difference in corner weights on a ~2000lb vehicle.
Just make certain it's not the crown of the pavement (for drainage), nor edge of the road debris causing early lockup on the front tire in question (test multiple times for each single adjustment).
rich grsc
03-02-2021, 08:26 AM
Without corner weights, the generally accepted method for adjusting the coilovers is: With the suspension hanging, adjust all four collars so they are just barely tight against the coils. Just enough to keep them from moving. Then put the car down on it's weight, bounce it a couple times, and check the ride height. It should be too high. Adjust the front and back pairs the same exact amount. For example, three turns out on both sides in front, two turns out on both sides in back. Back down, bounce, maybe even roll it back and forth a bit, then measure again. You'll find a correlation between how many turns affects the ride height a certain amount. But always adjust the pairs the same. You should not adjust side-to-side differently unless you have corner weights and can confirm the proper distribution. You may end up with a slightly different ride height side-to-side. But it's typically a small amount, not noticeable, and much less important than having the proper weight on each corner. Not adjusting properly can affect handling up to and including being unsafe. I've followed this process on multiple builds and it's worked well. For street driving it's been more than accurate. A tracked car should ideally be corner weighted.
I had the opportunity to borrow some corner weights for one of the Roadster builds after I'd set it this way. Only street driven but I was curious and had the chance so took it. It was so close we didn't adjust anything. Note, for the record, if you do use corner weights the likelihood is whatever chassis height differences you find using the manual method will still be the case afterwards.
This is the BEST advice to follow. DO not start by trying to get the frame the same height side to side .
I had exactly the same experience, set the springs by length and when I did my corner weight check it was spot on.
Jeff Kleiner
03-02-2021, 09:09 AM
Exactly what Edwardb and Rich said. Set the left and right front springs the same and set the left and right rear springs the same (i.e., matching side to side but not front to rear) and you're going to be almost dead nuts on. I've done this with my own as well as customer cars and then put them on scales and found that they within just a few pounds of exact. As Gordon mentioned the springs act in diagonals---if you tighten the RF to bring that corner up it introduces weight to the LR and you'll end up having the car what I call "cross jacked" with the weights wonky with opposite diagonal corners heavy and light resulting in the uneven braking that Mike talks about. I always use the example of a 4 legged stool with one short leg and the teeter tottering that creates.
Good luck,
Jeff
GoDadGo
03-02-2021, 11:11 AM
Remember to disconnect your sway bar(s) if you have them when you do this process.
Reinstall the sway bar links so that you don't pre-load to either side.
Thanks for all the info, I'll go back to zero and start the process over.
NiceGuyEddie
03-02-2021, 01:48 PM
I raised my left rear colilover 1 turn and the right front dropped significantly. Looks like the center of gravity shifts notably when you change 1 corner. There was no difference in rear ride height, left or right.
BB767
03-02-2021, 01:52 PM
Hi Travis. As long as they are not busy, for $20 Placerville Fruit Growers will let you use their vehicle scale. I was able to get total weight, front and rear weight, side to side weight, and individual wheel weights. Of course the drawback is you need to reposition the car for each of these, but it is a certified scale so you know the weights are good. They would have let me make adjustments and remeasure but as others have said, the weights were very close to ideal already. Just another option. Brien
One last question, the set screw on the shocks are they necessary to use or will the compression of the spring hold everything in check once the car is on the ground?
mike223
03-02-2021, 05:35 PM
the set screw on the shocks are they necessary to use
I say throw them away, but you probably ought to wait for the survey.
It will be along shortly, lol.
Jeff Kleiner
03-02-2021, 06:36 PM
I always put those with the setscrews for the wheel spinners.
https://www.theparkcatalog.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/2/6/263-1162big.jpg
Cheers,
Jeff
cob427sc
03-03-2021, 07:39 PM
I'll help with the poll. I install the set screws (and on the wheel spinners too) after I had one back off on one rear axle. Thought something was broke as the drivers side sagged and rattled. Once the coil was readjusted and the set screws installed everything was fine. I was driving over some real humpty/bumpy roads which may have attributed to unweighting and allowing it to turn on the coil. Also lost one wheel spinner, then put in the screws.
I'll help with the poll. I install the set screws (and on the wheel spinners too) after I had one back off on one rear axle. Thought something was broke as the drivers side sagged and rattled. Once the coil was readjusted and the set screws installed everything was fine. I was driving over some real humpty/bumpy roads which may have attributed to unweighting and allowing it to turn on the coil. Also lost one wheel spinner, then put in the screws.
My thought was to go hand tight "snug" on them which would not damage the threads, this is what I am doing with spinners as well.
CraigS
03-04-2021, 07:22 AM
15 years w/ my MkII and I have never had a coil height adjuster move. I am in the trash em camp.
Ok I think I got this dialed in. Reset everything and did exactly what EdwardB and Jeff recommended and everything is balanced out now. I have about 1/8" difference side to side in front but I am going to leave it be for awhile and let the car settle out. I will check it again after 100 or so miles of driving.
EdwardB, Jeff and everyone else thanks again for the help on this, I really appreciate it!:cool:
nucjd19
03-04-2021, 09:54 PM
Thank you everyone for their recommendations. Going to squirrel this info away :)
rich grsc
03-05-2021, 09:38 AM
Ok I think I got this dialed in. Reset everything and did exactly what EdwardB and Jeff recommended and everything is balanced out now. I have about 1/8" difference side to side in front but I am going to leave it be for awhile and let the car settle out. I will check it again after 100 or so miles of driving.
EdwardB, Jeff and everyone else thanks again for the help on this, I really appreciate it!:cool:
I completely eliminated side to side discrepancy, by only measuring one side.
Avalanche325
03-05-2021, 04:30 PM
I completely eliminated side to side discrepancy, by only measuring one side.
That's perfect! Like, a man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never really sure.
Benchwarmer
02-03-2024, 10:23 PM
This is the BEST advice to follow. DO not start by trying to get the frame the same height side to side .
I had exactly the same experience, set the springs by length and when I did my corner weight check it was spot on.
Can I ask what your shock length is from eye to eye in the rear