The "Squishy" Build

[snowdave]

Disclaimer: If we actually order the kit, I will ask to move this thread to the build sub-forum.

A few years back my son, AKA "Squishy", came up with his master plan for a Factory Five.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143461&d=1614349454


Buy 1992 5.0 Convertible-->
Let Sister Drive in High School-->
Sister Leaves for College-->
Build Factory Five Kit with Donor-->
Drive Factory Five to Highschool

It was a good plan at the time. We bought the convertible, enjoyed it for a year and then tore it apart to start upgrade/fixes. It is still in that state now, but we are planning to at least have it for Sisters last at-home summer. BTW, the 5.0 has plenty of go-fast upgrades already (3.73, gt40p, TFS intake/cam, etc, etc)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143462&d=1614349454

In the meantime I have been accumulating parts, most of which will find their way onto the Factory Five (Cobra Brakes, 5-lug conversion, Moates tuner, Bullitt wheels, engine dress up, etc). I have bought a few that were specific to the Mustang as I flip-flopped between it being a donor or a keeper (top, interior, paint, weld repair, exhaust, etc).

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143460&d=1614349454

The primary flaw in his plan was ELECTRONICS! Amazingly, when he has access to gaming, streaming, etc, he has zero motivation to get up and actually do anything, what a shock. This was evident in our go-kart build we did as a bit of a trial run for the Factory Five. We took a rusted out Chinese junker go-kart and completely upgraded it to a fire breathing 60mph monster. Unfortunately, he consulted & advised and I ended up doing all the work......definitely NOT what I wanted for the kart and not good enough to continue with his plan for a Factory Five build.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143458&d=1614349454

That brings us to today and the resurrection of the master plan. COVID hit, he has been doing remote learning from home for the last year, his grades dropped, he lost electronics privileges and suddenly he is very motivated to do actual work (hopefully academics too, but we'll see). He has converted my fat-tire bike to a 21-speed, fixed our Fiat 500 after Sister had a little fender-bender, installed front hub bearings in the Fiat and replaced the brakes on our Passat. He has done this all while giving me the hard sell on the Type 65 instead of the Roadster I had been planning for since I was 16.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143457&d=1614349454

I "think" he has finally convinced me. The idea of a roof, more stable handling, heat/ac, windows and simply the novelty of a car that you never see has gradually overcome the desire I have long held for the Roadster. Besides, we have already enjoyed some of the open-air experience with the convertible and the many motorcycles over the years. This leaves two big questions and a few prerequisite projects left. The first question is will we fit in the Type 65? He is getting bigger every day and I think will be 6'3" and 250+ in almost no time and I broke my back a few years ago and am not quite so limber as I used to be. The second question is whether he will actually participate as he returns to school and enters high school next year. No shortage of other interests at that time in your life. The prerequisite projects are mostly clearing out old stuff. The go-kart, two Bultacos and a vintage Yamaha in various states of completion. They all need to be finished and potentially sold before I can agree to place the order. Not a small task, but I think we could knock it out in 6 months or so if we were really focused and determined.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143465&d=1614349764

That about covers it. I am researching and considering and the money is burning a hole in my savings account :-)

[sread]

off topic, but that looks like an RD 400 sitting there on the left. I still have my '78 purchased new although it is in a similar state.

[snowdave]

Close, a 1978 XS650. I tore it apart to fix the transmission that always jumped out of first gear. I also had plans to add a sidecar, but I long ago gave up and sold off that project.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143476&d=1614357301

The Bultacos are actually a pair of 1973 Alpina 350s. One is nearly complete and the other is in pieces still. Had visions of vintage racing/touring, but the back injury has curtailed most motorcycle riding.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143477&d=1614357313

It's just the most recent in a long line of cars & bikes, nothing like the Factory Five kits yet though:

http://www.stacionis.org

[egchewy79]

I guess my first question is "Is this project for you or 13-14 year old son?"
If it's the former, then build what you want. If it's the latter, then you're a much better father than I am.
I have an 8th grader and can tell you that his interests are not with helping me build the car, as much as I try. I know all kids are different. He'll come out to help me a bit but is more interested in being on his phone, snapchatting with friends.
I guess what I'm saying is that if you are planning on relying on your son to help finish the project before he can drive it, I'd be cautious. If you'd like to build it for yourself and let your son drive it, that's another story. Life gets busy and other activities (school, sports, girlfriends, etc) will get in the way. Looking at some of the other incompleted projects might be an indication of what's to come.

[sread]

Close, a 1978 XS650. I tore it apart to fix the transmission that always jumped out of first gear. I also had plans to add a sidecar, but I long ago gave up and sold off that project.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143476&d=1614357301

The Bultacos are actually a pair of 1973 Alpina 350s. One is nearly complete and the other is in pieces still. Had visions of vintage racing/touring, but the back injury has curtailed most motorcycle riding.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143477&d=1614357313

It's just the most recent in a long line of cars & bikes, nothing like the Factory Five kits yet though:

http://www.stacionis.org

I see - saw the clip ons and the cast wheels and it looks like just like the RD. Believe it or not I used to have a 250 Pursang also in that same color blue. Still think it is one of the prettiest bikes I ever owned. Anyways, good luck with your FFR build if you go that way. I am about 80 percent thru a hotrod build and it is definitely a big project but I can already tell it will be the most fun car I have ever driven.

[snowdave]

It's funny, while looking at the Roadster, I finally concluded I was better off just buying and enjoying a finished one due to their availability and price compared to the time & money I would be investing. I have built and modified plenty over the years, so the build doesn't mean too much to me unless it is with my son. Now that we are looking at the Coupe, the discussion changes completely. They are not common and priced much higher. I don't imagine buying a complete one as any kind of bargain (though I have seen them come up occasionally). Ultimately, if he participates, great. If not, it is a shame, but I am plenty content to build it on my own. As to my project completion rate.....I give myself a 50% chance :-). I have finished tons of projects over the years, but also have some that have been sitting for a very long time. After I broke my back I decided to hold off beginning any new projects until they were all finished and/or sold off. I am about 60% of the way through the backlog as of today.

[Sigurd]

At 6’4 and a few pounds to may I asked myself the same question, will I fit? I went to FF and sat in the Coupe they had in the showroom. Perfect. However, getting in and out was no pretty sight. I hope it will be better with trainig.

A trip to Isle of Man when the build is done might be a good motivator. I see you have the flag.

[snowdave]

Happy to say I accomplished that dream in 2014. It was the Classic, not the TT, but absolutely awesome:


https://www.facebook.com/snowdave/videos/10202686814316816

[Jeff Kleiner]

A couple of thoughts based on what you've told us. First of all, once inside of the Gen 3 Coupe there's lots of room but as has already been mentioned there are some real gymnastics involved with the entry and exit. This may be difficult for you if you have some mobility limitations so I suggest you try one on before pulling the trigger. Secondly, although the Coupe conceivably can be built using a Fox donor it isn't as versatile in that regard as the roadster. Sounds like you wouldn't be heartbroken to keep the Mustang intact but building a non-donor or only partial donor Coupe will obviously up the ante.

Good luck whichever direction you go!

Jeff

[snowdave]

I have considered the donor options on the roadster vs coupe and did find a few spots that are different.


Gauges - happy to have the upgrade
Pedal assembly - happy to have the upgrade
A/C - my donor does not have it, but I want it for the coupe

The bigger challenges pertain to upgrades I could pursue on either car that would further cut down on donor use/value.


IRS - the net for this is $4k+ and my cobra brakes won't fit, planning 3-link initially
Front spindle/LCA - cobra brakes won't fit, new SN95 spindles aren't needed, planning spindle adapter
Exhaust - I anticipate fabbing it myself, I want quiet, dual pipes and no gt40p plug/wire issues
Wiring - I will either clean up factory harness or go Holley Terminator X
Rack - I had to replace mine and the new one is too quick, expect to swap it regardless
Transmission - Synchro or tranny needs replacing regardless

Are there other differences related to using a donor for the coupe that I am missing? I realize it puts my build on the lower end of the scale, but that is just fine for me. I only paid $4k for the donor when I got it and you couldn't even buy half of the go-fast parts on it for that money.

[David Williamson]

use the FFR front spindles, they give much better geometry and I don't think the donor options fit the Gen 3 frame.
The Coupe will cost more to build in both time and money. The big cost adder is body work. I have about 3X more in my Coupe vs Roadster but that is no-donor vs donor and show paint vs basic paint.
David W

[Jeff Kleiner]

...use the FFR front spindles, they give much better geometry and I don't think the donor options fit the Gen 3 frame....


Absolutely correct! I've seen donor spindles with the adapter used on a Gen3 and it aint pretty! The chassis was designed around the FFR proprietary spindles and does not offer an alternate UCA mounting point for use with the Mustang spindles. Using the tall Mustang spindle and adapter combination with the Coupe results in the wonky geometry shown here:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131793&d=1594730510

Can you imagine the ridiculous camber curve that will occur when this suspension moves through it's travel?

Jeff

[snowdave]

Wow, that looks terrible. A bit shameful it is sold that way. I think I saw you can clearance the FFR spindle to fit the 13” cobra brakes. My refurbished SN95 spindles are still easily sold off. I didn’t like the adapter from just the looks of it.

[Jeff Kleiner]

...A bit shameful it is sold that way...

I've discussed this setup with Jim & Jesper and while it can be done they don't endorse or recommend it. Sometimes you can't save people from themselves ;)

Jeff

[snowdave]

Is that Jim Schenck? I went to high school with his brother. Jim always had a project car and a girlfriend around in those days. Wonder what happened with his old t-bird. Or the funny Camaro for that matter.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Is that Jim Schenck?

Yep, great guy and a humble genius :)

Jeff

[snowdave]

Jim was the most focused car guy I ever recall meeting. I remember sitting around and no matter what the conversation was, he could always bring it back to random car thoughts. We joked that he would end up with six incomplete project cars and at least one engine getting rebuilt in the bathtub. I can only imagine how a lifetime of automotive experience has elevated that from when I knew him.

[snowdave]

One thing I won't need to worry about on the kit.....rust. The donor was largely rust free, but while fixing the exhaust, I found spots at the front of the floor pans. Logic says I should have ignored it, but I have a hard time skipping past a problem once I find it.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143525&d=1614529394

The go-kart got new frame supports today. The original rusty rails couldn't handle the extra HP and added 50 lbs as my son got much taller.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143526&d=1614529484

With any luck, if this keeps up the projects will be done in no time and I will have an empty garage/workshop for the kit by fall.

[snowdave]

Well, I think I can finally put this thread/build to rest. Called about insurance and there is nobody that will cover a younger driver. Looks like a foxbody refurb will be the project instead of a kit.......oh goody, rust repair!

[JohnnyB]

Sounds like you had a well thought out plan but life is all about change. There’s surely no shame in resurrecting a Fox body. At this point it’s kind of a shame to tear one down for a donor. Enjoy the rebuild.

[Lidodrip]

Well, I think I can finally put this thread/build to rest. Called about insurance and there is nobody that will cover a younger driver. Looks like a foxbody refurb will be the project instead of a kit.......oh goody, rust repair!

I wonder if it might be worth reaching out to Dave Smith at FFR. He and his son built a roadster when he was 18. I assume some carrier ended up insuring him.

James