View Full Version : 351W oil pan selection
P100DHG
02-20-2021, 05:40 PM
Can anyone suggest a good oil pan for my 351 Windsor based for 427 for the MK4. Manufacturer and Model Number would be super helpful. Thank you!
Jim1855
02-20-2021, 05:54 PM
I have the Canton 15-680 9qt. It's 8" deep, that might cause some concern but I think it will be right at the bottom of the frame tubes rather than below. It's been a good pan for me.
https://www.cantonracingproducts.com/products/15-680-for-ford-351w-front-sump-road-race-pan.html
Jim
Gordon Levy
02-20-2021, 06:10 PM
I have 2 depending on how serious you might think about track work. Also fitment will depend on how your engine sits in the car by which engine mounts you use. The ones I use are 7.5" deep. Give me a call and we can talk about the 351 based engines and fitment.
Dagwoods
02-20-2021, 07:57 PM
I would defer to Gordon for his expertise, but I have the Moroso 7qt Oil Pan - p/n 20534 on my fordstokers 427w and it sits just above bottom of frame tubes. No issues for the first 1k miles.
CraigS
02-21-2021, 08:09 AM
I had a Canton rear sump pan that worked very well. They seem to have changed their design a bit since 12 yrs ago. Mine didn't have the little front sump dropdown they show on the 15-694s pan.
https://www.cantonracingproducts.com/product-catalog/performance-engine-oil-pans/ford-oil-pans/?_bc_fsnf=1&Application+Type=Road+Racing&sort=featured&Engine+Type=Ford+351W
mike223
02-21-2021, 11:14 AM
I'm running a Kevko F502-RR.
7.5" deep - cured my autocross oil starvation problems.
https://kevkoracing.com/collections/ford-302-351w/products/part-f501-rr-ford-rear-sump-road-race-pan-302-engine?variant=34323686222
P100DHG, I have the Canton 15-680S pan on my Dart 427. I would not recommend this pan, I am hanging down 3/4" below the frame right now. I picked up a 7" deep Champ 351LT-RR per recommendation from Gordon Levy which will put me up inside the frame. My engine builder is going to install it soon. You could probably get away with the Canton but IMO not worth the risk being below the frame. Your motor mounts will also determine your pan height. My painter recommended solid mounts with a 351w block which sit lower to help with side pipe alignment and air cleaner clearance.
https://www.champpans.com/products/p/cp351lt-rr/
I do have a question, why do some guys run front vs rear sump pans? advantage or disadvantages?
rich grsc
02-21-2021, 11:21 AM
I'm running a Kevko F502-RR.
7.5" deep - cured my autocross oil starvation problems.
https://kevkoracing.com/collections/ford-302-351w/products/part-f501-rr-ford-rear-sump-road-race-pan-302-engine?variant=34323686222
YES, I'm a fan of Kevco pans. A nice pan at a good price, get one with all the bells & whistles, trap doors and windage tray.
Snakeskin347
02-21-2021, 11:32 AM
Sorry I'm not trying to hijack this thread but I also have been wondering some of the same questions? Mine has the double sump and I'm presuming that it was for a cross member of a Mustang? I would like to put a higher capacity pan and get rid of this double sump thing on here. What do I need to consider when picking a better high capacity pan? Will mine just have the oil pickup at the back? Mine is a 305 block stroked to a 347 BTW but I don't think that matters or pertains to my question.
143178
mike223
02-21-2021, 12:38 PM
I do have a question, why do some guys run front vs rear sump pans? advantage or disadvantages?
Front, rear, double hump - was just a matter of where the OEM had room for the sump vs the cross member.
Rear sump is probably more suitable for a drag race application than a front sump.
SWhat do I need to consider when picking a better high capacity pan? Will mine just have the oil pickup at the back? Mine is a 305 block stroked to a 347 BTW but I don't think that matters or pertains to my question.
As soon as somebody decides to put one of these light, wide sticky tired cars into a corner anywhere approaching the capability of the chassis - you need a road race pan with windage tray, baffles, trap doors, extra oil capacity tucked into the wings - the works.
Because a bunch of the oil is going up the side of the block for a while (and getting spun into a froth by the crank) - not available at the oil pickup.
Do that much with a standard pan and you'll be replacing bearings and polishing the crank at the bare minimum - if you're lucky and figure out what's happening before catastrophic failure.
A good road race pan is really cheap comparatively.
P100DHG
02-21-2021, 02:40 PM
143183. 143184
Looks like I have an 8 inch pan front sump on it right now 3/4” below the frame that Fman is saying would be concerning. But I don't intend to use solid mounts so maybe like as Jim1855 suggests it should be okay...
phileas_fogg
02-21-2021, 08:14 PM
For both Snakeskin347 & P100DHG: I highly recommend you call Gordon Levy & get whatever pan he recommends for your engine. He'll get you the right pan, with the right pickup, & all the accoutrements you need. If you have the option, install the pan before the engine is in the car.
John
https://www.ffcars.com/threads/john’s-excellent-oil-pan-adventure.637338/
Snakeskin347
02-21-2021, 09:10 PM
For both Snakeskin347 & P100DHG: I highly recommend you call Gordon Levy & get whatever pan he recommends for your engine. He'll get you the right pan, with the right pickup, & all the accoutrements you need. If you have the option, install the pan before the engine is in the car.
John
https://www.ffcars.com/threads/john’s-excellent-oil-pan-adventure.637338/
Hi John, thanks for the reply. I'll be in touch with Gordon this week. Obviously my pan is sub par by the previous posts. It was not installed by my engine builder and I'll take responsibility for tis one.
143183. 143184
Looks like I have an 8 inch pan front sump on it right now 3/4” below the frame that Fman is saying would be concerning. But I don't intend to use solid mounts so maybe like as Jim1855 suggests it should be okay...
You are a solid 8", the 15-680S is actually 7 3/4". I cant tell you how much fixed mounts lower the engine but I think you might be right on the edge. Much easier to replace the pan now than after it is in the car. Another vote for calling Gordon Levy, he knows these cars and what will work.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135574&d=1601173188
mike223
02-21-2021, 10:25 PM
It was not installed by my engine builder and I'll take responsibility for this one.
Gordon will near certainly cover this (for anyone who calls him about an oil pan), but just in case - and mostly for lurkers who may stumble across this thread:
A key point of installing a new oil pan is getting the pickup in the right position.
Install the pickup + pan + gasket (torqued) using a wad of aluminum foil (or something similar) to determine how far the pickup is from the bottom of the pan.
Most oil pan companies say 5/16" ~ 3/8".
I'll say 1/4" ~ 5/16".
I'll guarantee anyone's new oil pickup is not at all likely to get in the 1/4" ~ 3/8" range without (someone) bolting it all up, fitting it all up, and bending on the pickup + mount a time or four.
This is critical.
phileas_fogg
02-22-2021, 09:21 AM
Great point Mike. I covered my pickup with cling wrap & used some play-dough to figure out how far off the bottom of the pan the pickup was. Mine was a little less than 7/16" right out of the box.
John
P100DHG
03-09-2021, 06:22 PM
You are a solid 8", the 15-680S is actually 7 3/4". I cant tell you how much fixed mounts lower the engine but I think you might be right on the edge. Much easier to replace the pan now than after it is in the car. Another vote for calling Gordon Levy, he knows these cars and what will work.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135574&d=1601173188
Circling back to this now that I can wrap my head around it and have my full focus on the engine. Fman, what mounts are you running? the supplied FFR mounts?
Just a bit a follow up I spoke to Dave B at FFR. When I sent him pictures, he wrote me “That should be O.K., that what the pan Blueprint puts on 351W engines in a Roadster measures.”
Circling back to this now that I can wrap my head around it and have my full focus on the engine. Fman, what mounts are you running? the supplied FFR mounts?
Just a bit a follow up I spoke to Dave B at FFR. When I sent him pictures, he wrote me “That should be O.K., that what the pan Blueprint puts on 351W engines in a Roadster measures.”
I am running the fixed mounts from Gordon Levy, these are lower than the Energy suspension mounts supplied by FFR. The reason I went with the fixed mounts is because my painter recommended them to help align side pipes better to avoid cutting fiberglass. They also allow for more clearance for the air cleaner. I am not sure how much lower they cause the engine to sit than the FFR mounts. I would recommend you call Gordon Levy and get his opinion. I know have seen multiple posts on this forum about 7" deep oil pans being the sweet spot to never hang down below the frame.
P100DHG
03-09-2021, 09:45 PM
I am running the fixed mounts from Gordon Levy, these are lower than the Energy suspension mounts supplied by FFR. The reason I went with the fixed mounts is because my painter recommended them to help align side pipes better to avoid cutting fiberglass. They also allow for more clearance for the air cleaner. I am not sure how much lower they cause the engine to sit than the FFR mounts. I would recommend you call Gordon Levy and get his opinion. I know have seen multiple posts on this forum about 7" deep oil pans being the sweet spot to never hang down below the frame.
Okay this makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the info! Great build thread BTW. Just started reading it. Really well done.