302 / T56 fit

[Bluemont]

I'm doing all the research to get ready to play my order for a new Coupe kit. I'm looking at using a 302-based pushrod engine (I just like them and that's what I've always used - no great reason beyond that). Anyway, for the first time I was thinking about using a T56 transmission since I am planning on using this car on the track a lot (but I would also drive it on the street some). So the thinking is that the .8 5th gear would be great for the track and the taller 6th gear would be good on the highway - essentially the best of both worlds. In pestering the tech support guy with questions I found out that they don't make a driveshaft for that combination. Ok, no problem, I could get a custom driveshaft made. But, my question now is, does that combination just not line up with whatever is used for mounting the transmission at the frame? Does anyone here use that combination? Sounds like the Coyote with a T56 works and there have been a bunch of those.

[Paul2STL]

I have a Coyote and T56 in a roadster. FFR didn't make a drive shaft for that combo either. I had one made and it is overall about 12" long. In a coupe you will have a longer drive shaft since it is a longer wheel base. Shouldn't be a issue in my opinion even if you are running a solid axle. In my roadster my combo would only work with IRS, because of pinion angle with solid axle issue. I think that combo is just not used very much as the T56 can handle a lot of power and is more expensive.

[edwardb]

Factory Five does make driveshafts for the Gen 3 Coupe and the T56. Just maybe not in the exact combination you're looking for. Not enough information to say for sure.

I have a Coyote + T56 + IRS in mine. On the order form for mine: 60375 31 SPLINE 2015 IRS 9.75" DRIVESHAFT DRIVESHAFT, 3" CHROMOLY TUBE, 31 SPLINE, 2015 IRS, COYOTE w/6spd MAGNUM, GEN 3 COUPE, 9.75", BLACK, 1330 U-JOINTS, 2-3-6041X YOKE, 2-2-489 PINION FLANGE. Fit and works perfectly. Part number 60375 is still on the on-line order form for the Gen 3 Coupe.

For a 302/351 + T56, they list part number 60450 - 31 spline driveshaft for 302/351W with T-56 Magnum transmission. Doesn't specifically say IRS like the 60375. So I'm guessing it's for a solid axle. But that's a pure guess. You don't specify whether you're planning solid axle or IRS. So can't say if it's right for you.

Real simple question to FFR tech support is whether the 60450 is for solid axle or for IRS and then decide if that fits your build plan.

For the record, a Coyote block is about an inch shorter than a 302/351 block, so the driveshafts are slightly longer. Would be easy enough to shorten 60375 if you're planning IRS and 60450 isn't for IRS.

[Bluemont]

For a 302/351 + T56, they list part number 60450 - 31 spline driveshaft for 302/351W with T-56 Magnum transmission. Doesn't specifically say IRS like the 60375. So I'm guessing it's for a solid axle. But that's a pure guess. You don't specify whether you're planning solid axle or IRS. So can't say if it's right for you.

Real simple question to FFR tech support is whether the 60450 is for solid axle or for IRS and then decide if that fits your build plan.


Oops, sorry. I see I forgot to mention that I was planning on doing the IRS. I did ask tech about 60450. They said that does not work with the IRS. So I would need to shorten it or get one made - which isn't a problem. I was more worried that with the longer combination I would be using that the transmission mount wouldn't line up with wherever it needs to attach to the frame. I haven't seen the frame yet so I don't know where that is or what it looks like. Does that make sense?

[mike223]

It's easy to get a driveshaft made.

Much easier than trying to work everything around whatever driveshaft you happen to have in your hands.

Get the engine, transmission and differential in the right places - and then measure for a driveshaft.

That's my humble advice.

Mk4 / 393w / CTSV T56 / TBird IRS / 10.5" driveshaft ujoint to ujoint.



I was more worried that with the longer combination I would be using that the transmission mount wouldn't line up with wherever it needs to attach to the frame. I haven't seen the frame yet so I don't know where that is or what it looks like. Does that make sense?

P.S. - I had to move the bar where the handbrake mounts in the Mk4 to give clearance for the T56 - I don't know what the exact T56 fit in the coupe is.

I also moved the engine 1/2~3/4" forward to keep the Quicktime Bellhousing out of the diagonal bar nearest the starter - you have to be careful with this move or you'll be off into custom headers.

[edwardb]

Oops, sorry. I see I forgot to mention that I was planning on doing the IRS. I did ask tech about 60450. They said that does not work with the IRS. So I would need to shorten it or get one made - which isn't a problem. I was more worried that with the longer combination I would be using that the transmission mount wouldn't line up with wherever it needs to attach to the frame. I haven't seen the frame yet so I don't know where that is or what it looks like. Does that make sense?

Sounds good. Not the best picture, but found one showing the underside of my Gen 3 Coupe / Coyote / T56 / IRS build during the build. Ignore that the the tailshaft isn't exactly aligned to the diff. This was early before things were done. I cropped and edited the pic so the transmission mount is visible. Sorry it's a little blurry. Zoomed in quite a bit. The transmission mount is a plate that attaches to tabs on each side on the frame. It's made to be oriented multiple directions to accommodate different combinations. There's a little adjustment left to go backwards which you would need since the 302/351 block is slightly longer than the Coyote. Hard to say whether it's enough and you may need to do a little filing or grinding to make it work. But the setup is flexible enough that I think it would work.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ab234/edwardb123/IMG_1979_cropped.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://app.photobucket.com/u/edwardb123/a/186cc666-68d0-4881-b53c-af005ffe3552/p/07aaaf8d-9cc3-408d-a987-c49dbb367ee1)

[Bluemont]

Thanks a lot Edward, I really appreciate it. It looks like there is about an inch or so of room where the transmission mounts before grinding, etc happens. Very helpful.

Also, it looks like you're running a rear-sump oil pan, is that right?

[edwardb]

Thanks a lot Edward, I really appreciate it. It looks like there is about an inch or so of room where the transmission mounts before grinding, etc happens. Very helpful.

Also, it looks like you're running a rear-sump oil pan, is that right?

That’s the pretty standard Moroso low profile pan used on most Coyote installations in these builds. Yes it’s rear sump. The only choice available.

[P100DHG]

SBF + TKX or TKO600 + IRS = no brainer. Check out the table of contents in by build thread you can see all the right parts on my order sheet, plus a link to the entire discussion on configuring an SBF (you’ll have less issues with hood clearance with a 302). Build thread in signature below. Don’t be afraid to use the KISS method whenever in doubt ;)

[Bluemont]

SBF + TKX or TKO600 + IRS = no brainer. Check out the table of contents in by build thread you can see all the right parts on my order sheet, plus a link to the entire discussion on configuring an SBF (you’ll have less issues with hood clearance with a 302). Build thread in signature below. Don’t be afraid to use the KISS method whenever in doubt ;)

Thanks. Even before you posted this I had already found your build thread and it is great. I'm definitely going to be referring back to it. The reason I am really after the T56 is so that I can have the fairly low .80 5th gear for track days on the longer straights and still get the .63 6th gear for highway driving. I have a TKO 600 in one of my other cars with the normal highway 5th (I think it is a .68) gear and it is too tall on a track day. But it works well for the highway. So the extra gear would be really nice. Looks like FFR just released a driveshaft for the T56 and a 302 so either option should work. Since I started this post, I read a lot about people using the Coyote engine. I also talked to a number of people that use them and it sounds like they all really like them. So now I'm thinking about just using a Coyote with the T56 transmission. It looks like the car was designed with that in mind so that won't hurt. I have two other cars, one with a 347 and another with a 408, so I get plenty of opportunities to tune carbs and chase oil leaks :cool:. Based on what I've read about the Coyote, it sounds like it should be a really solid option to use on track days?

[P100DHG]

Thanks. Even before you posted this I had already found your build thread and it is great. I'm definitely going to be referring back to it. The reason I am really after the T56 is so that I can have the fairly low .80 5th gear for track days on the longer straights and still get the .63 6th gear for highway driving. I have a TKO 600 in one of my other cars with the normal highway 5th (I think it is a .68) gear and it is too tall on a track day. But it works well for the highway. So the extra gear would be really nice. Looks like FFR just released a driveshaft for the T56 and a 302 so either option should work. Since I started this post, I read a lot about people using the Coyote engine. I also talked to a number of people that use them and it sounds like they all really like them. So now I'm thinking about just using a Coyote with the T56 transmission. It looks like the car was designed with that in mind so that won't hurt. I have two other cars, one with a 347 and another with a 408, so I get plenty of opportunities to tune carbs and chase oil leaks :cool:. Based on what I've read about the Coyote, it sounds like it should be a really solid option to use on track days?

You know that’s how I started Coyote + T56 and frankly I can’t disagree it’s unbeatable. The power it delivers for the price you pay and the reliability and the list of pros is endless. I wouldn’t hesitate to go with the coyote in fact I’d encourage you to do it.

As for track days. I plan to take mine to the track but honestly I’m not a competitive person and the day I took my BMW M3 to the track I was exhausted after 10 minutes. I went with a Roush SBF for show primarily and nostalgia. But if track days were high on my list I’d go coyote for sure.

Also to confess I bought the Roush engine because it looked so cool and at that point I had never imagined the type of build quality I have achieved and thought it would be the coolest part of the car not just one of many cool things. Now I look back I probably could have pulled it off with a gen 2 coyote and had the best of both worlds and saved myself $12,000 but those words of my brother were haunting me at the time about an SBF being timeless and he isn’t wrong.

[Bluemont]

Thanks to everyone on this forum that have been answering my questions. I got my kit officially ordered today. ETA late June / early July. Can't wait! Ended up going with the Coyote / T56.