Blueprint 347 carb Wont start need help - update thank you Henry, she is running!!!

[capt1black]

Well first start did not go as expected. Very frustrated. Blueprint 347 carb. Did all precranks as advised by blueprint. Cranks over well. First was not getting fuel. I had the in on the out and out on the in. Easy fix. Can see fuel spraying in when pull throttle linkage. Now have fuel. Still wont start. Ok check spark. No power to coil. Found bad connector, replaced and now have power to coil. Still wont start. Check spark, got a spark from cable. Checked timing, set to mark from BP. Wont start. timing clockwise and the farther I go the more it wants to start, fire shoots out of carb, but still wont catch and it is way off BP timing mark. Ideas, suggestions?

[Gordon Levy]

Your timing is way way off. Pull #1 plug. Put finger over plug hole and rotate engine clockwise until you feel compression on your finger and keep rotating intil timing mark is on 0. See where rotor on dizzy is pointing. That will be number 1. Your firing on the cap will be 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 counter clockwise on the cap.

[capt1black]

Your timing is way way off. Pull #1 plug. Put finger over plug hole and rotate engine clockwise until you feel compression on your finger and keep rotating intil timing mark is on 0. See where rotor on dizzy is pointing. That will be number 1. Your firing on the cap will be 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 counter clockwise on the cap.

Thanks gordon. I will try that. How does the timing get so far off from BP? It went from crate to car with nothing changed or removed.

[Gordon Levy]

pop the dizzy out and look at the gear

[ggunter]

I’m not so sure they run these engines with the accessories on them that they ship to us. Mine wouldn’t start either. I found the float levels so low it wouldn’t pull gas through the Venturi and one side of the accelerator nozzle was not cast properly md only squirted gas from one side. I replaced that from an old Holley I have and reset the float levels and we are all good. I believe they have other items they use to run in the engines.

[nucjd19]

I’m not so sure they run these engines with the accessories on them that they ship to us. Mine wouldn’t start either. I found the float levels so low it wouldn’t pull gas through the Venturi and one side of the accelerator nozzle was not cast properly md only squirted gas from one side. I replaced that from an old Holley I have and reset the float levels and we are all good. I believe they have other items they use to run in the engines.

I had asked Johnny this very question about the Carb when I ordered my carb'd 347 from BPE. He told me it is dyno'd with the carb it is shipped with as I was thinking like you and was getting ready to do some major carb adjusting when I get ready to start it. I will be following this thread as I am not too far out from jabbing in my 347 and do not want any surprises.

[Vegasjack]

I too had some minor issues. A couple was my fault, but having said that, there was 2 vacuum ports under the front bowl that was not plugged off. Wasn't a big deal, but a contributing factor all the same, You can't necessarily see them there, so reach under and you will find 2 next to each other. ADDITIONALLY: You do know that even though it is a carburetor, you need a fuel pump with a pressure gauge to ensure sufficient fuel pressure. Just asking, since some inexperience mechanics don't realize it's not a manual fuel pump.

[65 Cobra Dude]

Quick question Chris - did you take the block off plate between the carb and intake? I just replied to your email.

Thx,

Henry

[capt1black]

Another tough day and no luck. Tried everything I know (and a few friends) and nothing has changed so when Henry is ready for me it will be taking a trip to see the legend himself. I know he will get it going and the cost for that will save me the cost I would probably incur by really screwing something up. Thanks Henry.

[65 Cobra Dude]

See you after 2/2 Chris. We'll get it!!!

Henry

[BadAsp427]

Did you remove the dizzy to install the engine, give room for chain connections etc??? It is possible to install it back in a tooth off or even 180* out of timing. Just a thought.

[Fman]

Have you tried to contact BP? I have heard they have excellent customer service and there tech dept would be able to help you get up and running. I would also bet if you needed to take it to someone they would cover the cost.

[NAZ]

Fuel, Air, and Spark -- in the proper amounts and at the correct time. Go back to your basic set-up and ensure everything is adjusted properly -- don't give up, you'll find the problem. Many times I've said to myself "I can't believe I missed that".

[FLPBFoot]

I had asked Johnny this very question about the Carb when I ordered my carb'd 347 from BPE. He told me it is dyno'd with the carb it is shipped with as I was thinking like you and was getting ready to do some major carb adjusting when I get ready to start it. I will be following this thread as I am not too far out from jabbing in my 347 and do not want any surprises.

BP dynos every engine before it is shipped and the timing should be spot on out of the box. I too have confirmed this with Johnny. He basically said timing should be the last thing to look at.

I suggest you call BP and ask for help. They are VERY good.

Steve

[capt1black]

Thanks for all the replies and encouragement. here is an update. Still no luck getting it going but I am in contact with BP and one of their tech guys Josh. As stated by others, they are a great company with great customer service. We are going through some diagnostics to get to the problem. Unfortunately, I stripped a screw on carb so a replacement screw is ordered and until it comes I can not do anything. I am 99% sure it is something stupid I did (or did not do) and we will get it going. If not, Henry will get it sorted out I am sure.

[capt1black]

With the help of Josh from BBE I have found the issue but not sure where it is. If anyone has any suggestions to look at let me know. The issue is I am only getting 4-5 volts to the coil. I have 12.5 volts at key, fuses, electric choke, fan sensor. But i only get 8 volts at water temp, oil temp and oil pressure and as stated 4-5 at coil. Obviously I am loosing voltage somewhere in the harness, but where?

[BadAsp427]

My thought. 1st, I would check the connector that goes to your front harness that includes the coil wire. Be sure that the pins are all straight and appear to getting good connections. 2nd, I would put a charge on that battery. 12.5 is ok, but I'm wondering if when the starter is drawing power if that voltage is way lower. Charged, it should be up much closer to 13v. Hope this helps in some way.

[Papa]

With the help of Josh from BBE I have found the issue but not sure where it is. If anyone has any suggestions to look at let me know. The issue is I am only getting 4-5 volts to the coil. I have 12.5 volts at key, fuses, electric choke, fan sensor. But i only get 8 volts at water temp, oil temp and oil pressure and as stated 4-5 at coil. Obviously I am loosing voltage somewhere in the harness, but where?

I installed a relay on my coil feed to be certain I always get a full 12 volts. I use the orange EFI/Coil wire in the RF harness to trigger the relay and pulled a new wire from my Buss Bar to provide relay power.

[capt1black]

Thanks. I am going to run a jumper right from battery to see if it starts and then going fishing on harness.

[Gordon Levy]

Do you have an engine to chassis ground cable?

[Papa]

To go with my post above:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=141597&d=1611874131

[capt1black]

Do you have an engine to chassis ground cable?

Yes i do. I am using the one from FFR I have it from engine block to motor mount bracket.

[capt1black]

To go with my post above:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=141597&d=1611874131

Thanks Papa. What relay did you use?

[Papa]

Thanks Papa. What relay did you use?

Any Bosch-style 4 or 5 pin standard relay will work.

Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Automotive-Relay-Harness-Socket/dp/B07QLDH3HS/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=4-pin+relay&qid=1611874865&s=electronics&sr=1-1-spons&psc=1&smid=A1THAZDOWP300U&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEySzk3WkNKSVFUSEI4J mVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwODUxMDM4M1c0VFRVVFMxNkRHViZlbmN yeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMzY0MDAyMUw5NjFDSkJTUDBIQSZ3aWRnZ XROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05 vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

Go by your local auto parts store and get one, they're cheap!

You could also use a 5-pin if you can't get a 4-pin. In that case, just don't connect anything to pin 87A.

[D Stand]

Yes i do. I am using the one from FFR I have it from engine block to motor mount bracket.

Make sure all paint is removed for the ground strap. When testing, where are you putting the negative lead of your meter? If it is to the engine block, move it to the chassis or run a wire to the battery negative direct. If you do have a lack of good grounds this should show different, better results. Same concept is you say you have 12v at the key but only 4-5v at coil. Do the same test but keep the negative on the same spot. Make sense?

[capt1black]

Make sure all paint is removed for the ground strap. When testing, where are you putting the negative lead of your meter? If it is to the engine block, move it to the chassis or run a wire to the battery negative direct. If you do have a lack of good grounds this should show different, better results. Same concept is you say you have 12v at the key but only 4-5v at coil. Do the same test but keep the negative on the same spot. Make sense?

yes thanks

[capt1black]

As you may remember, I have been working on getting it started since January. I tried everything, even worked with BPE to diagnose the issue. Nothing after new coil, distributor, ground, rewire of ignition switch. I was waiting to get in Henry’s garage to get some other things worked on and added get it running as I gave up. Well, Henry was able to get me in his very busy garage today and whala, it is running. Freaking timing. Should have listened to Gordon. I did not play with timing much because I was going by BPE timing mark. Live and learn. Kinda feel stupid tbh.

Have to say, this is an amazing group and it starts with people like Henry. I feel very lucky to have someone as knowledgeable and helpful so close that can get the car to the level it deserves due to my lack of knowledge. Those that know Henry know what a great guy he is and those that don’t should get to know him if you have the opportunity. I know I feel privileged to get to know him. Thank you Henry, I know I will get a great go-cart back.

[65 Cobra Dude]

Glad to help Chris!!! She sounds mean with the open headers!!!

Henry

[zarnold]

Wow, thanks for sharing! The timing would have been low on my list as well.

Congrats on getting her running!!

[j.miller]

As you may remember, I have been working on getting it started since January. I tried everything, even worked with BPE to diagnose the issue. Nothing after new coil, distributor, ground, rewire of ignition switch. I was waiting to get in Henry’s garage to get some other things worked on and added get it running as I gave up. Well, Henry was able to get me in his very busy garage today and whala, it is running. Freaking timing. Should have listened to Gordon. I did not play with timing much because I was going by BPE timing mark. Live and learn. Kinda feel stupid tbh.

Have to say, this is an amazing group and it starts with people like Henry. I feel very lucky to have someone as knowledgeable and helpful so close that can get the car to the level it deserves due to my lack of knowledge. Those that know Henry know what a great guy he is and those that don’t should get to know him if you have the opportunity. I know I feel privileged to get to know him. Thank you Henry, I know I will get a great go-cart back.



Not trying to start something but......If you didn't mess with the timing or firing order how did they test run it? And if they compensate to get it to run and don't tell the customer where the new baseline is it makes it kind of tough ? Just some random thoughts in my head...da Bat

[GoDadGo]

Not trying to start something but......If you didn't mess with the timing or firing order how did they test run it? And if they compensate to get it to run and don't tell the customer where the new baseline is it makes it kind of tough? Just some random thoughts in my head...da Bat

Agreed!

Timing & Running Kind Of Go Hand In Hand!
https://youtu.be/J4Z2SLebUXA

[Papa]

Is it possible the distributor was pulled or the plug wires re-installed after it was run on the dyno at BPE? Just trying to understand as this isn't typical with their delivered engines. They caution that timing should be verified to be at a specified number (I think mine was 16 degrees initial timing). My engine started on the first turn of the key and the timing was spot on where they said it should be.

[BradCraig]

It's always timing or firing order....I always start there! Trust but verify. When I watch all the car shows on TV and they can't get engines cranked I find myself yelling at the TV... "IT'S TIMING!!!!!!!FIRING ORDER!!!" My wife is amazed that it always ends up that! :-)

[GoDadGo]

Amen Papa Dave & BBBBBad-C!

[nucjd19]

I will need to be cautious of this as well since I have the exact same set up as you. As Papa said the instructions say to check the timing even though it was set at the factory so gonna need to make sure it is spot on. Thanks for walking us through this situation. It was very educational.

[capt1black]

Honestly, i do not know why the timing was off so much. Henry said it was pretty far. I dont know enough to know enough. I will admit I did swap out the distributor for a new one BPE sent me as we were trying to diagnose. I thought I was very careful installing it the exact same way it came out, even taking pictures if it and rotor before I took it out and it acted the same before I removed it as after. Just very happy she is now purring.

I also have to say, I have nothing, 0 bad things to say about BPE. They have been very attentive and helpful this whole time. Johhny set me up with the technician Josh and he has constantly worked with me to test things, replace things and try things. He was unfortunately working with a person that is a novice and has not worked on a motor in 35 years made it harder for Josh to diagnose by phone and email. Someone like Henry was able to diagnose immediately. Josh even called me a few times while I was waiting to get my spot in the garage to see if I had learned anything. They are an amazing group and would by buy another motor from them tomorrow if I needed one.

For those newbies like me and you are having start issues, as said by those above check timing timing timing.

Peace

[CP82AERO]

This forum rocks!