Heat barrier between headers and footbox

[Traveller]

Especially on the drivers side, there is about 1/4" gap between the headers and the footbox, a bit more on the passenger side. I have sprayed the inside of the foot boxes with Lizard Skin thermal and sound dampener but am curious if people further recommend something between the headers and footbox on the engine bay side. I understand that header wrap is not recommended, but was thinking about some of a stick on thermal barrier sheets that could be applied to the footbox. Recommended or not necessary?

Thanks!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140906&d=1611002508

[nuhale]

I used this on the footbox anywhere near the header:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00029KC2K/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Also used this material on the inside of the footbox (and full cab):

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004PILLZG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It does get warm but I also installed a vent system with dampers which I highly recommend.

[David Hodgkins]

I've seen builds with a gold foil-looking sheet that looks like it is possibly glued to the aluminum?

Did a quick ebay search and came up with this below. Heat barrior tape:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=gold+heat+barrior&_sacat=0

:)

[Bob Brandle]

Traveller,
Here's what I've done on the engine side of the footboxes of my Gen 3 Coupe, about a year ago, however, I've still not gotten the car completed and on the road to verify the full effectiveness of this heat shielding;

0.063 aluminum panels with 1/8" to 3/16" standoff to create the all important air gap, plus DEI Floor & Tunnel Shields II. Either of these alone might have been sufficient on the outside of the footboxes, but I do like the looks of the DEI Shields.

On the inside of the footboxes (and basically most all of the interior sheet metal) I have Second Skin Deamplifier Pro Mat plus Dynamat Dynaliner 1/8" and carpeting.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140918&d=1611017927

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140917&d=1611017917

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140916&d=1611017903

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140915&d=1611017889

Bob

[edwardb]

You don't need anything IMO. If you have some airspace, decent insulation on the inside (Lizard Skin is fine), plus carpet, you're not going to feel heat on the inside. Even with the header that close. Been there done that on several builds and radiated heat from the engine side into the cockpit has never been an issue. I would say that's true pretty much regardless of the engine. But especially the Coyote. The combustion is well controlled and headers don't get as hot as some. All the panels builders put on the engine side of the footbox are nice I guess. If you aren't putting anything on the other side. But don't need both in my experience.

Now air filtration is another story. Builders worry about insulation but then don't get things sealed up. The hot air that comes through might be nice in cold weather. But a hot summer day feels like a blowtorch. Make sure to deal with it. Then there's the matter of that big orange star in the sky. That's going to make you hotter than anything else and you'll find driving limited by that more than anything else.

[Traveller]

Thank you all for the feedback. I appreciate it very much.

Bob - oooh.. I like that look. Very well done!

Traveller,
Here's what I've done on the engine side of the footboxes of my Gen 3 Coupe, about a year ago, however, I've still not gotten the car completed and on the road to verify the full effectiveness of this heat shielding;

0.063 aluminum panels with 1/8" to 3/16" standoff to create the all important air gap, plus DEI Floor & Tunnel Shields II. Either of these alone might have been sufficient on the outside of the footboxes, but I do like the looks of the DEI Shields.

On the inside of the footboxes (and basically most all of the interior sheet metal) I have Second Skin Deamplifier Pro Mat plus Dynamat Dynaliner 1/8" and carpeting.

...

Bob

[Traveller]

You don't need anything IMO. If you have some airspace, decent insulation on the inside (Lizard Skin is fine), plus carpet, you're not going to feel heat on the inside. Even with the header that close. Been there done that on several builds and radiated heat from the engine side into the cockpit has never been an issue. I would say that's true pretty much regardless of the engine. But especially the Coyote. The combustion is well controlled and headers don't get as hot as some. All the panels builders put on the engine side of the footbox are nice I guess. If you aren't putting anything on the other side. But don't need both in my experience.

Now air filtration is another story. Builders worry about insulation but then don't get things sealed up. The hot air that comes through might be nice in cold weather. But a hot summer day feels like a blowtorch. Make sure to deal with it. Then there's the matter of that big orange star in the sky. That's going to make you hotter than anything else and you'll find driving limited by that more than anything else.

Thank you, Paul - I appreciate your input very much. As mentioned in my original post, I have SOME airspace on the driver's side, so I think I will hold off on any additional material outside the footbox for now (although Bob's setup above looks soooooo good...). I am in line for paint work late next fall and I plan on driving it all summer to work out any issues. If heat is a problem I think I can add something fairly easily.

When you say "air filtration" you are clearly referring to sealing up all the gaps - I'm on that. What I haven't done is fresh air ducts into the footbox. Any strong opinion on that?

Thanks everyone.

[edwardb]

When you say "air filtration" you are clearly referring to sealing up all the gaps - I'm on that. What I haven't done is fresh air ducts into the footbox. Any strong opinion on that?

Me? Strong opinion? No never... :rolleyes: I haven't done power vents and haven't regretted it. But I have done vents with scoops in the trans tunnel. An idea from another build site back when I first started. I would say having fresh air in the foot boxes is a good thing. But to be totally candid, Michigan isn't a super hot climate. Your choice.

[Traveller]

... But to be totally candid, Michigan isn't a super hot climate. Your choice.

Fair enough. Thanks!

[boat737]

Simple aluminum panels with standoffs. The panel on the side of the DS footbox as you note is tight, so the standoff is only about 1/16 - 3/32". I used rubber and silicone washers for vibration, to help eliminate any aluminum cracking.

[JohnK]

Similar to the aluminum panels with stand-offs, but perhaps easier to install - Heatshield Products makes a "Sticky Shield" (https://www.heatshieldproducts.com/hp-sticky-shield) product that's 1/8" thick, adhesive-backed foil. I'm thinking of using this in the area around the catalytic converters on my headers.

[Gumball]

I went a different route with my header heat shields. I made a panel for each - basically a 90 degree bent panel with stand-offs that are secured in place with stainless band clamps. As further protection, I used DEI header wrap on the bundle of four pipes in the area under the heat shield. This has served well with over 16k miles on the road and no issues with rattles or heat.

To increase airflow over this area, I also added a screened cut-out to the rear splash guard in each front wheel well.

[Traveller]

I went a different route with my header heat shields. I made a panel for each - basically a 90 degree bent panel with stand-offs that are secured in place with stainless band clamps. As further protection, I used DEI header wrap on the bundle of four pipes in the area under the heat shield. This has served well with over 16k miles on the road and no issues with rattles or heat.

To increase airflow over this area, I also added a screened cut-out to the rear splash guard in each front wheel well.

Thanks Chris. I like that approach as it's very clean. More to think about.

[Bob Brandle]

Here's what my setup looks like with the headers and sidepipes installed, w/o body yet. These are Boig Quietpipes for the Gen 3 Coupe and Coyote with Cerakote Glacier Silver ceramic coating.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=141000&d=1611117472

Bob

[Hacksaw84]

I did all of it. Yes, I will admit its probably unnecessary but I wanted to and enjoyed it.

Inside I have both layers (sound and heat) of LizardSkin.

For outside I first put on the thin stick-on reflective heat shield from DEI. I did this before I dropped the engine in. Similar to the gold stuff but in silver. I don't really know why but I wasn't super impressed with it, based on nothing to do with actual experience... just because. I wanted to protect some of the wires near the header especially the big bundle that went to my ABS module so I added Summit brand Velcro heat sleeves. These make a mess but I ended up folding the ends back and stapling them back on themselves. If I was really committed I could have stitched the ends. Then I added a stick-on DEI floor and tunnel kit with heat tape to the faces of the footboxes as best I could with everything already installed. This one is the dimpled hard aluminum with an actual heat shield barrier on the back. I taped up the edges just so it looked cleaner. At this point I was just going to do it all. So I added the Heatshield Products header armor. Its supposed to be better than the full wrap for not damaging the header because at the bottom (not that you can tell from the pictures) is about 2-3 inches of uncovered pipe(s). The individual runners are held on with stainless clamps and the main pipe uses their anchor kit that rivets hooks on the bottom and wire ties it tight.

Again, overkill. I know.

Then I have fresh air foot box vents. I used an exhaust cutout kit form ebay that I hacked all up. There is a pull cable under the dash on either side that opens the flange/valve. Its fed by the Attwood blower fans which are connected to the front of the car (********** front air duct vents) with Allstar brake duct hose. The switch for the fans is also tucked under the dash near the pull knob. It has a blue led and is wired to ACC so it also turns off with the key, just in case. Although if you don't notice the fan running you are deaf.

141053

[Traveller]

Hacksaw - I like your "belt and suspenders" style (more like 2 belts and 4 suspenders)... Pretty sure you could have an engine fire and your feet wouldn't feel a thing!

Thank you all for the input and ideas.

Jason

[Ducky2009]

Being an engineer and knowing a little about heat transfer, I added heat shields to the outside of the foot boxes. If you leave an air gap/dead space where air can circulate, it will slow/stop heat transfer into the footbox. I did use AL's RHN Insulation/Noise Spray inside the footbox and Thermo Tec one sided foil insulation. I've also seen this installed with the foil out, but I installed the foil down. This reflects the heat first/better.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?23523-Ducky2009-MK4-Build-9035&p=278786&viewfull=1#post278786

[Hacksaw84]

Hacksaw - I like your "belt and suspenders" style (more like 2 belts and 4 suspenders)... Pretty sure you could have an engine fire and your feet wouldn't feel a thing!

Thank you all for the input and ideas.

Jason

I also superglued and duct taped my pants on.

[Avalanche325]

For powered fresh air vents. absolutely tutely moootely. How's that for an opinion? I am in northern Florida.

I don't have anything on the outside of my footbox and no issues.

[Gumball]

In my response at #12, I mentioned that I ventilated my front wheel wells - here's a pic of how I accomplished that.... similar to what was found on some of the earlier (original) competition cars.

My goal in doing this was to increase the airflow over the headers to aid in heat dissipation.