Build Options for Type '65 Build

[dailydriver]

I have started looking at build options for Type '65 and will take any input you all want to offer. I don't think it makes a lot of sense for me to tackle this but I am going to do it anyway.

I spend a good amount of time at the drag strip with my daily driver. I want to get a little deeper into racing so I have thought about having someone build a street racer for me, trying that myself, buying a faster car or building an FFR car. I have read through some amazing build threads here and saw a Type '65 someone made to run 1/2 miles that have helped me decide to tackle a Type '65 build. Good to read that a lot of people here with very little experience still have success. My limited experience, for what it is worth: I have taken motocross bikes apart and replaced pistons, I am pretty good with two strokes, I own a torque wrench and crows feet, I have replaced the bearings on my trailer, I used to mount tires and change oil, I can wire a switch in the house, but no DC. In my opinion that is just about nothing if talking about building a car.

If that is any kind of a setup, here is what I am thinking:
- Type 65 (not R)
- Coyote
- T56
- 3-Link Solid Rear Axle
- Manual Clutch Release
- Power Steering
- 18" Wheels
- Catted Pipes

Is Solid Axle and T56 a weird combination?

Thanks

[Alphamacaroon]

Welcome DailyDriver! Seems like you'd probably have no trouble putting one together as long as you took your time and are not afraid to ask questions (second part seems like a ✔️). I had experience building an Ultima GTR before mine, but it was so long ago I feel like I forgot 90% of what I learned and so I was probably in a similar boat to you.

General thoughts:

I think it's really a question of what you mean by "street racer". I'm guessing you mean straight-out drag style racing, here's what I would say:

1. I think the 4-link is considered the optimal drag suspension setup for high horsepower. I also think that the T56 will probably be stressed at super high horsepower, and other transmissions might be better fitted, but I'm not an expert on drag setups so I hope others would chime in if I'm wrong. If you don't plan on adding a lot of extra horsepower, then it might not really make a difference, but I've learned to never say never...
2. I think power steering is considered a must by many (because you can run more aggressive suspension setups), but the added weight might not be worth it if all you care about is straight-line acceleration.
3. I'm guessing cats are required where you live (otherwise, why would you add them— unless maybe you want to save the environment, but if that's the case this might not be the car for you :D )? If so, then maybe none of the previous advice really matters because it will be really difficult to boost up the horsepower enough (and have it still be street legal) to test the limits of the 3-link or T56. But again, I could be very wrong— there are plenty of very quick/high horsepower cars with cats I guess.

On the off-chance you mean more road-course/autocross/track racing:

1. If you can afford the IRS, then I think it would be hands-down better than the 3-link. If you can't afford the IRS, then I think the T56 mated to 3-link is definitely the second best option. I was going to go the same route of T56->3-link at first, but decided that the price difference wasn't really that big, so I went with the IRS.
2. Definitely makes sense to go with the power steering.

Hope that helps some!

[GoDadGo]

Nothing Wrong With The 3-Link Rear Or A T56 Behind A Coyote!

This car, which was built in only a few days at SEMA 2018, had a 3-Link so why not yours?

https://youtu.be/KfCUeNA6cH8

https://youtu.be/iWp6LEs__FU

[dailydriver]

Thanks for the info. That really helps.
By street car I mean I want to register it and I want to drive to the track (90% strip, 10% road course) and not trailer it (mostly).
I'm not trying to build a 10 second car. My dailydriver does 12's at the track near denver. Into the 11's would be awesome. Thinking I would drive it with coyote (460hp), see how it goes and then maybe do super charger mods. Max HP I would want long term is 700 at the crank. More than that and I would be thinking something else. Thanks again.

[dailydriver]

Here's another question.
For a complete nube, what would be easiest Type65 engine option. I want to build a race car, but maybe that can be my next build ;)

[Jacob McCrea]

"My limited experience, for what it is worth: I have taken motocross bikes apart and replaced pistons, I am pretty good with two strokes, I own a torque wrench and crows feet, I have replaced the bearings on my trailer, I used to mount tires and change oil, I can wire a switch in the house, but no DC. In my opinion that is just about nothing if talking about building a car."

That's plenty of experience. If you can do a top end on a 2 stroke and the power valve still works, just take your time and you'll be fine. It's ultimately just nuts, bolts, and attention to detail, and also a very creative process in a lot of ways.

I had a pretty easy time installing a Ford Motorsports 302 (Windsor) crate engine - the one with the Boss block and forged rotating assembly. The biggest problem was getting the GT40 intake to clear the hood.

[Alphamacaroon]

Here's another question.
For a complete nube, what would be easiest Type65 engine option. I want to build a race car, but maybe that can be my next build ;)

I only have experience with the Coyote, but I can say that it's relatively easy to install. Especially if you buy it pre-assembled (low-profile oil pan, bell-housing and transmission all assembled) from someone like Mike Forte. Hooking up cooling lines and fuel are going to be fairly similar with any engine you put in, the main difference being having to find a place for the ECU with a Coyote (which can be challenging, but lots of documented options), or having to route and adjust your throttle cable with a carb engine. Going back to my Ultima GTR build, I had a Chevy small block with carbs and I found the throttle cable linkage to be a real pain to get right (and never quite got it where I wanted it). I really enjoyed having the drive-by-wire pedal, but it's possible the throttle cable linkage on the Type65 is a breeze (I wouldn't know).

Also, I think it also makes a difference WHICH Coyote you are going to use. Then Gen II has been around longer, so there is more experience with it and I think it is generally slightly more roomy in the engine compartment. But EdwardB has done an excellent job paving the way and providing detailed build notes with a Gen III, so it's definitely not a mystery anymore.

[edwardb]

Also, I think it also makes a difference WHICH Coyote you are going to use. Then Gen II has been around longer, so there is more experience with it and I think it is generally slightly more roomy in the engine compartment. But EdwardB has done an excellent job paving the way and providing detailed build notes with a Gen III, so it's definitely not a mystery anymore.

No external physical difference between the Gen 2 and Gen 3 Coyote other than the direct inject pump that sits on the RH head which needs to clear the Gen 3 Coupe frame as it's dropped into place. Once installed no issue. Never an issue in the Roadster. Internally, the Gen 3 requires a different oil pan pickup since Ford changed the oil pump. Also needs a different flywheel. But uses the same Moroso low profile pan, headers, alternator, power steering, A/C compressor, etc. Of course the other obvious difference is the cluttered up heads don't allow coil covers any more and the stock engine cover is odd (being nice). There are several options for that. Gen 2's aren't around too much any more. They've been out of production for several years and Ford Performance has sold out their supply. So for new, only what's leftover at dealers. Which probably isn't much. Of course lots of used ones out there. And I believe Ford Performance is still selling the Gen 2 control pack.

[dailydriver]

Thanks edwardb. I read your entire gen 3 build thread. Epic bit of build documentation. You must either be in the garage or at the computer. Congrats. Awesome car.
I read the parts about the oil pan pickups, bellhousing, etc so I understand. My initial goal was to build my dream drag car, but I am going to retire in a few years so wondering if this build should instead be something that is more realistic for my first build. Learn what I can now, then retire, put a lift in the garage and get serious. As I do my research and read here, I seem to be focusing on what the wiring will be like. Is that the wrong thing to worry about?

[dailydriver]

I never replied to this question, but yes Colorado has emissions. This car will need cats if it is going to be registered. I have hi-flow cats from armytrix on my dailydriver and I have no complaints.

[NAZ]

Thanks for the info. That really helps.
By street car I mean I want to register it and I want to drive to the track (90% strip, 10% road course) and not trailer it (mostly).
I'm not trying to build a 10 second car. My dailydriver does 12's at the track near denver. Into the 11's would be awesome. Thinking I would drive it with coyote (460hp), see how it goes and then maybe do super charger mods. Max HP I would want long term is 700 at the crank. More than that and I would be thinking something else. Thanks again.

I like the looks of the car and the design BUT if you plan to run this car on a drag strip that is sanctioned by NHRA, you should read the rule book before you go any farther. http://www.nhraracer.com/content/general.asp?articleid=47000&zoneid=132

NHRA has a number of rules that the car and driver will have to comply with and FFR does not design or build their cars to comply with NHRA. That makes it very difficult to run on an NHRA track. The cost and effort to make that chassis comply will likely be more than what you want to undertake for a casual Friday Night Run What You Brung event. To make my 33HR comply I had to cut the chassis at the firewall and redesign everything behind that point. Also, if you want to go with the solid rear axle (that would be my choice over IRS) go with the three-link. And you really should consider having one made with aftermarket axles and large Torino bearings if you plan to do any track time. Moser Engineering can do this for you.

[dailydriver]

Wow that hot rod is sick. 8.5 seconds must be quite a ride. Besides the big Bandimere events, don't see that on a Wednesday night.
Thanks for the info. I know enough that I need a helmet under 14 and under 11 the rules get serious. If I could run under 12, in something I built, I would be happy (for a little while). I love the cars at the track that aren't that fast but you can tell they are built. I drive a amg merc that is pretty fast, but nobody cares about that car. Honestly its got no style. Just a pretty fast/bought street car. A 15 second 55 Chevy gets way more attention, as it should.

[edwardb]

Thanks edwardb. I read your entire gen 3 build thread. Epic bit of build documentation. You must either be in the garage or at the computer. Congrats. Awesome car.
I read the parts about the oil pan pickups, bellhousing, etc so I understand. My initial goal was to build my dream drag car, but I am going to retire in a few years so wondering if this build should instead be something that is more realistic for my first build. Learn what I can now, then retire, put a lift in the garage and get serious. As I do my research and read here, I seem to be focusing on what the wiring will be like. Is that the wrong thing to worry about?

Thanks for the compliment and congrats for making it through the entire Coupe build thread. It was an interesting and challenging build and we love the outcome. It's a blast to drive and gets a ton of attention everywhere it goes. My wife also likes it better than the previous Roadsters. So she's along for the ride a lot. We're in a great club and have lots of events. Good times. I really do other things beside build and work at the computer. But do spend my share of time on it. Retirement does have its privileges! I was an IT guy back in my working days. So those forum posts and threads get done quicker than you might think.

I can't help you with the drag car discussion. Not on the radar for me. Ours is a street cruiser. I'm confident it would make respectable times in some passes. For what it is. But no desire to do that other then hopefully on Main Street in Ohio at the London Cobra Show. Have done that with all of my builds and it's a lot of fun. Personally, I'd highly recommend considering the IRS option. I've had both solid axle and IRS and the ride quality is really better with the IRS. The setup is quite robust and unless you're talking about a dedicated drag car with high HP and drag slicks, I don't think you'll break it. I'm impressed how solid mine is with the Torsen center section. Wiring can be a challenge. But don't get the cart in front of the horse. First plan your build. Then determine what your electrical requirements are. Then plan the wiring. Mine has a lot of bells and whistles and still mainly did it with the standard RF harness. Plus the Coyote harness since that's how it's powered.