HUGE MISTAKE Ford Explorer. Going in a different direction...

[David Hodgkins]

We lease one vehicle every 3 years as a commuter, primarily for my wife.

Day before yesterday I leased a 2020 Ford Explorer XLT.

I made a HUGE MISTAKE getting this POS Ford.


No AC.
A random collision alert sounded at a stop light.
The transmission is unbearable.



Cali is a no-cooling-off period state. Once it's off the lot there is no unwinding.

:mad:

I think I'll stick an LS in the F9.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Keep taking it in for repairs. Three strikes and it goes back under lemon law.

Jeff

[JohnK]

Oh, man... sorry to hear that. That sucks. I'm reminded of a car my father purchased back in the 80's. The Ford Taurus had just been named Motortrend's car of the year, which was a big deal at the time as it had unseated some Honda (Civic or Accord, IIRC). My dad was a diehard Toyota fan for his commuters, but I talked him into "buying American" and he begrudgingly bought a Taurus. That car was the biggest POS you could possibly imagine. To this day he still reminds me how bad that car was, and how I talked him into buying it. He's never bought another non-Toyota car since then.

[GoDadGo]

We lease one vehicle every 3 years as a commuter, primarily for my wife.

Day before yesterday I leased a 2020 Ford Explorer XLT.

I made a HUGE MISTAKE getting this POS Ford.


No AC.
A random collision alert sounded at a stop light.
The transmission is unbearable.



Cali is a no-cooling-off period state. Once it's off the lot there is no unwinding.

:mad:

I think I'll stick an LS in the F9.

Another Ford Fan Is Coming Over To The Dark Side!
First Edwardb, Now The Great & Powerful Mr. Wookie!

All kidding aside, nobody should have to put up with a substandard purchase and/or lease.
Bring that sucker in every time it does something goofy.
Da Lemon Law Is Da Solution!
Pinto Power!

Good Luck Dave!

[FF33rod]

The good news is that you leased it and didn't buy it! Hopefully I don't set anyone off but I can't stand the design and reliability of pretty much any North American car

Steve

[bil1024]

We lease one vehicle every 3 years as a commuter, primarily for my wife.

Day before yesterday I leased a 2020 Ford Explorer XLT.

I made a HUGE MISTAKE getting this POS Ford.


No AC.
A random collision alert sounded at a stop light.
The transmission is unbearable.



Cali is a no-cooling-off period state. Once it's off the lot there is no unwinding.

:mad:

I think I'll stick an LS in the F9.

Join the club! Have same vehicle

Touch screen goes black for 30 minutes or more
Collision alert is a joke, goes off for a car already turning
Windage noise under car
Last but not least, brake issue, start car push on brake pedal is stiff shift into reverse and car moves! Safety hazard big time, third time at the dealer, next is lemon law procedures

[Al_C]

I find it hard to believe that California will make you keep that vehicle. We're talking what, 48 hours? You should be able to bring it back, no questions asked. Even Carmax has a 7 day guarantee...

I'd give it a whirl. You could probably drop enough Ford-related names to put the fear of God (or "the Wookie") in them...

[Ray]

The A/C doesn't work or it doesn't have A/C?

I can't imagine you picking out a daily driver without A/C.

Ray

[David Hodgkins]

The A/C doesn't work or it doesn't have A/C?

I can't imagine you picking out a daily driver without A/C.

Ray

AC doesn’t work...

[RBachman]

Ford had to buy back the last one I purchased on a lemon law. Garbage.

[HerculezJT]

So the explorers were a **** show of a release

see: https://jalopnik.com/ford-knows-it-has-to-stick-the-landing-this-time-1841601059

Now, I am not saying give it a chance, i really dont have any brand loyalty other than if it has an LS in it, i love it. Depending on the details with the F9, i have a 383 LS6 waiting for it, either be TT or PDSC. Hope you get it worked out, i can sympathize the pain when i had issues with my 1500 Ram EcoDiesel

[Jeff Kleiner]

AC doesn’t work...

How far did you get before it crapped out?

Jeff

[RBachman]

Reading this again makes me mad at Ford again. My Lemon was a brand new F250 diesel King Ranch. First 20 days it was in the shop. Within two months they replaced the radiator, 3 serpentine belts, the AC compressor fell off, the turbo hoses would not stay connected, bad window switch, the chrome bumpers already had rust, doors were not aligned, the drivers side mirror fell off, and exhaust manifold leaks that filled the cabin that they couldn't fix. This is the main reason I went with as much non-Ford components on my roadster engine that I could within reason. It's highly likely that I will never buy another Ford.

[Larry J W]

50 years ago I interviewed with Ford in their testing department. When I asked what their goal in testing was I got the answer to “get it through warranty”. I then asked what if it exceeds that goal. I was told they would cost reduce it. “If I could save a penny a door handle I would be a hero”!

There was no way I could work like that even though they made me a good offer. After that American manufacturers made progress in quality. It sounds like they are reverting again to their old ways. Poor quality like that hurts all American manufacture’s reputation.

Larry

[Jeff Kleiner]

I spent 12 years in a General Motors test department where the mindset was "Get it to production, ship it and the customers will let us know what the problem areas are."

Like Dave with his Explorer I knew I'd made a HUGE MISTAKE within a couple days of starting the job but it took me 12 years to break out (We all used to say "They pay you enough that you won't leave but not enough to make you happy about staying")

Jeff

[tony]

I daily a drive a Toyota tundra for its reliability. If ford made more reliable modern cars,, i would drive them in a heartbeat. All my toys are old fords though.

[wallace18]

While I am sorry to hear all the problems some of you have had with Ford products. I have owned, Chevy, Ram, Toyota and Ford trucks over the last 40+ years. Only the Ram Eco-Diesel was troublesome. All the rest never had 1 single issue over many years of use and miles. I guess I have been very lucky.

[David Hodgkins]

Hi guys, thanks for all the input. I got a PM or two as well so thanks for those as well.

I've had the car since Sunday evening. ~150 miles so far, most before we took possession.

The car is back at the dealer. The GM tells me he'll make sure I'm taken care of. We'll see.

:)

[Papa]

I grew up in a die-hard Chevy (GM) family. That said, my first car that I really drove was a 1965 VW Bug. That car was bullet-proof! I also had a 1968 Buick Riviera that I never really got to enjoy before my dad thought better of a 16-year-old with a 433 c.i. beast; hence the 1965 VW. I later (still in high school) bought a 1978 Z-28. Fun for a 17-year-old in the early 80s, but had its share of nagging issues with the number seven plug constantly fouling and junk interior quality. I joined the Army right out of high-school and went through a few more cars (in somewhat chronological order); a VW Passat, a Ford Granada (German, not US), a Mercedes-Benz 230E (non-US), a Toyota Celeca, a Ford Bronco II, a 1991 Ford Explorer 2-door, a 1995 Ford Explorer 4-door, Mazda B2000 pickup, 1995 Ford Ranger, 1998 Toyota Avalon, 1998 Dodge Ram 1500, 1970, Chevy El Camino, 2001 Ford F150, 2000 Mercedes-Benz C240, 2001 Mercedes-Benz C320, 2004 Ford F150, 2000 Lexus RX 300, 2002 Mercedes-Benz CLK 430, 2004 Lexus RX 350, 2007 Ford F-250, 2008 Lexus RX 350, 2006 Mercedes-Benz SL500, 2012 BMW 328i, 2012 Lexus RX350, 2015 BMW 328i, 2017 FFR MK4, 2019 Lexus RX350, and finally my 2018 BMW M550i.

As you can see, I'm not completely brand loyal, but I tend to favor Ford trucks and Japanese or German cars. From the list above, I currently have the 2007 F-250, the 2017 Roadster, the 2019 Lexus RX 350, and the BMW M550i.

Sorry to hear about your Exploder woes, Dave. It seems like Ford has had bouts with quality over the years and across their product lines. My F-250 is the infamous 6.0L Powerstroke. The 2007 was the last year for that engine and Ford had pretty much worked out the issues with the 6.0L, but it was too late for the reputation it had earned. Mine has had to have some expensive repairs (turbo, injectors, oil leaks) over the years, but not bad for a 13-year-old truck. The only Mercedes that was junk was the C240, which the dealer bought back after being in the shop at least once a month; usually via a tow. Lexus has been the most reliable, most comfortable brand of all, and BMW has been reliable and fun to drive.

I'd start working with the dealer to see if they would be willing to offer you a "good will" solution to get out of the disappointing purchase. That's what I did with the junk C240 I mentioned.

Good luck and if Ford won't work with you, go look at the Lexus RX! The best deals are on lease return CPO models.
Dave

[David Hodgkins]

Hi Dave,

Dealer says with CA law (no cooling off period) I have no other recourse than to go through repeated dealer service calls on the same issue before they will take action with Ford. He said once it goes off the lot it's used. There is no unwind provision.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Hi Dave,

Dealer says with CA law (no cooling off period) I have no other recourse than to go through repeated dealer service calls on the same issue before they will take action with Ford. He said once it goes off the lot it's used. There is no unwind provision.

You keep mentioning "Cooling off period" but unless it is offered by the dealer or you pay for such a clause in the contract up front there is no such thing with new vehicle purchases/leases


The Federal 'Cooling-Off Rule'
You might have heard there is a federal cooling-off rule for some purchases. There is such a rule, but it is primarily meant to protect consumers from high-pressure door-to-door sales tactics. It explicitly doesn't apply to automobiles. If you signed the sales contract, you own the car. And the law is on the side of the seller.

https://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/unwinding-the-deal-what-are-your-rights.html

Good luck,
Jeff

[Papa]

You keep mentioning "Cooling off period" but unless it is offered by the dealer or you pay for such a clause in the contract up front there is no such thing with new vehicle purchases/leases



https://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/unwinding-the-deal-what-are-your-rights.html

Good luck,
Jeff

We do have such laws in Colorado (see below). Automobile purchases fall into the 3 Day category below, but the catch is if you have traded in a car, you may not be able to get it back!!


The general law in Colorado is that a consumer does not have the right to cancel a consumer contract or purchase. There are exceptions to the general rule that allow a consumer to rescind a transaction, generally referred to as Colorado's buyers' remorse laws. A rescission of a contract is to render it void as if it never occurred. Rather than a broad law, Colorado law provides for 1, 3, 5 or 30 day rescission periods based on specific subject matter of the contract. These restrictions are based on business days, so any weekend or holiday does not count for calculation of the applicable time period.

1 Day
Colorado allows a consumer the right to rescind a membership buyer club contract or rescind the donation of goods under the Colorado Consumer Protection Act.

3 Day
Door-to-door sales involving transactions of $25 or more are granted a three-day rescission period. The Federal Trade Commission rules also provide a thee-day rescission period, in addition to requiring the consumer be given written notice of the right to cancel. Home solicitation sales, mortgage loans, health club contracts, charity pledges, and commercial telephone sales are also subject to a three-day rescission period.

5 Day
Credit repair contracts (where a private party will repair your credit for a fee) are subject to five-day rescission periods, and the seller is required to provide the consumer written notice of the right to rescind. Time-share contracts are also covered under a five-day rescission period.

30 Day
Hearing aids have a 30-day rescission period, although this excludes the cost of an individual ear mold that is cast.

[Jeff Kleiner]

We do have such laws in Colorado (see below). Automobile purchases fall into the 3 Day category below, but the catch is if you have traded in a car, you may not be able to get it back!!

I don't see language relating to autos in any of those Dave???? Well, maybe if you have a door to door car salesman :)

Jeff

[Papa]

I don't see language relating to autos in any of those Dave???? Well, maybe if you have a door to door car salesman :)

Jeff

Did you not see the list of cars I've owned? Trust me on this one. :p

Edit: Okay Jeff, I owe you another beer. I had it wrong and the return language I was incorrectly recalling was if the dealer wasn't able to get your financing approved and you returned the car. What's my tab up to now? :o

[cob427sc]

Just had to add my experience with a new 2015 Corvette. Purchased off the dealers floor it would not pass smog inspection for over 6 weeks of repeated returns to the dealer and 2000 miles of driving (try getting laughed at by everyone for owning a new vette with a redball reject sticker on the windsheild). Finally a 2 day stay at the dealer and a replacement computer solved the problem. Over the next 2 years and 7 factory recalls, mostly for air bag issues I had about had it. As I waited in the showroom to pick it up again I unloaded on the salesman I purchased it from. They offered to buy it back with 24,000 miles on the od for $2000 less than I paid for it. Sold! I've always had Porsches and a few Roush and Shelby 500 Mustangs. Never had one problem with any of them. Went back to a 911.

[DSR-3]

Maybe take it in for 1 problem at a time and let them rack up service and rental days. We "lemon'd" a diesel Suburban years ago that liked to consume glow-plug tips, and the number of days in the shop was a big factor. The burb was finally fixed after the settlement, and we got an extra 6 months free use before the return!

[Joecobr]

I bought a brand new Chrysler Intrepid in 1995. What a piece of junk. The complete front end, joints, etc had to be replaced at 35,000 km. Have owned Honda Accords as commuters ever since. Other than normal wear for tires and brakes not a single issue in 25 years.

[first time builder]

I just leased a 2021 Buick Enclave and LOVE it. I had a 2017 GMC Acadadia prior and also loved it but wanted something bigger. I had a Lincoln MKC prior and had a load of problems from windows that opened themselves to a totaly screwed up Nav and Radio.

[CobraboyDR]

You don't know dead-on-the-road lemon until you bought an '85 Merkur XR4ti. They ate black boxes in the rain.

[CobraboyDR]

Where I live taxes and import duty adds 56% to the price of any car. That new $40,000 Explorer XLT is a $65,000 sled here.

So I buy three-year-old cars and drive them for 5-6 years, rinse and repeat. Our current is a '10 2WD Explorer XLT with (now) 35,000mi. It's been terrific, no problems to speak of beyond some wear and tear issues (needs lower ball joints right now), and next year when it's time to buy another vehicle, I will only lose maybe $1500 over five years, not bad at all.

The paved roads here can be really bad and can beat a car to death.

I understand the file economy of it, but just can't see a 4cyl in an SUV, no matter how much boost and fairy dust tech they put in it. I don't know which way we'll go next.

[michael everson]

COB427sc. Surprised to hear that about the Corvette. I have owned 12 over the years with little to no issues. My 2015 Z06 has been flawless. My wife has a 2006 Convertible that has been flawless as well.
Mike

[David Hodgkins]

They just called saying they found a short in the AC wiring. He said they were throwing some bubblegum and were going to wrap in in duct tape.

Good as new.

;)

[JohnK]

Wow- bubble gum and duct tape?! They really have upped their quality game.

[James Morse]

Hope it gets all gets sorted out David, a real nightmare!

[Al_C]

Wow- bubble gum and duct tape?! They really have upped their quality game.

No baling wire?

Hope it gets sorted out soon, David!

[David Hodgkins]

Well the tune has changed... Now I need a new AC compressor for the brand new Explorer. No timetable on a return date yet.

[Vegasjack]

I'm guessing that you knew it didn't have A/C before you signed the lease.

[David Hodgkins]

I'm guessing that you knew it didn't have A/C before you signed the lease.

It came with a non working ac system. First the dealer said it was a wire shorting out. Now they say the compressor is bad and a new part is on order.

[James Morse]

Reminds me of when my dad bought a new Custom 500, I believe it was a '67, and it used a lot of oil, he took it back and after some arguing they found that some oil drain holes had never been drilled somewhere and the oil was not draining back correctly. I don't know the details, but I know it was something seriously not right.

[NiceGuyEddie]

Even though it sucks, I enjoyed reading the valuable testimonies here.

I am surprised the company that makes our beloved Coyote 5.0 would also make such a POS.

[David Hodgkins]

STILL at the dealer....

[DSR-3]

Have a good loaner from them?

[Alan_C]

Even though it sucks, I enjoyed reading the valuable testimonies here.

I am surprised the company that makes our beloved Coyote 5.0 would also make such a POS.

Eddie: Engine guys are typically enthusiasts, production is simply pushing product down the line and out the door.

It is sad that David has to go through this kind of frustration with a new vehicle. We buy new vehicles with the expectation of reliability for at least several years after purchase.

[Big Blocker]

Sounds about right . . . "the dealer said it was a wire shorting out. Now they say the compressor is bad" FORD's are known for one part will ALWAYS take out the other parts it's connected to.

Had a spark plug go bad on a Taurus I owned, that took out the coil pack due to overloaded current draw trying to fire a bad plug, which took out the catalytic converter because the mixture was too rich due to no spark, which plugged up the exhaust manifolds to a point that they couldn't be repaired, needed to be replaced completely. AND because it was a EFI 6 cylinder, both sides needed to be done because of unequal pressures side-to-side (exhaust-wise). Cost me $5K to fix that car, sold it immediately after it would run more than 10 minutes without throwing codes.

I feel your pain David . . . You might want to "suggest" that you need to speak to the District Service Rep if they don'y make it right in a timely manner.

Doc

[David Hodgkins]

The current status is that the compressor they ordered did not work they have now replaced the computer also and it is not working correctly. They’ve had the car for two weeks now. At 30 days it’ll be declared a lemon and I can walk away from this piece of ****.

I have not received one call from the dealer. I had to walk into the dealership this morning to find out what the status is.

[Jstanding]

It came with a non working ac system. First the dealer said it was a wire shorting out. Now they say the compressor is bad and a new part is on order.

So is that strike 1 and 2?

[Alan_C]

The current status is that the compressor they ordered did not work they have now replaced the computer also and it is not working correctly. They’ve had the car for two weeks now. At 30 days it’ll be declared a lemon and I can walk away from this piece of ****.

I have not received one call from the dealer. I had to walk into the dealership this morning to find out what the status is.

Routing for ya that the clock will run out before they can figure out the issue.

Sounds like the AC compressor was not the problem. On my Coyote, only two wires to the AC compressor. Seems like the dealer techs have lost the art of troubleshooting, they just replace parts and "hope" for the best. I mean how hard is it to connect a voltmeter and see if the voltage changes at the compressor.

Piss poor customer service to not keep you updated on the progress.

Did you ever get in touch with the Ford Regional Rep? It would be interesting to hear their position. Are they providing a loaner while the car is being repaired?

[JohnK]

The current status is that the compressor they ordered did not work they have now replaced the computer also and it is not working correctly. They’ve had the car for two weeks now. At 30 days it’ll be declared a lemon and I can walk away from this piece of ****.

I have not received one call from the dealer. I had to walk into the dealership this morning to find out what the status is.

This really sucks and I feel bad for you. I'm presuming from this post that it would be your preference at this point to walk away from the car. If that's the case, than I wouldn't call them any more. You know the old saying, "the squeaky wheel gets the grease?" You want to be the quiet wheel right now and chances are they will forget all about your car, two more weeks will lapse, and you'll be rid of it. The more you check on it, the more likely it is that they will actually claim to have "fixed it" on day 30, and you'll then have to go through another round of this to get rid of that POS.

[Papa]

You may not be the only one with this problem ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m73Wjiza3E

[Papa]

And another:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fan7w9nd23U

And a couple of articles:

https://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1125043_what-is-wrong-with-the-2020-ford-explorer-and-lincoln-aviator

https://tflcar.com/2019/09/report-2020-ford-explorer-and-lincoln-aviator-have-issues-that-could-delay-deliveries/

Looks like Ford (Lincoln) may already be buying back 2020 Aviators:

https://www.torquenews.com/3769/ford-buying-back-replacing-problem-plagued-2020-aviator-suv

[bil1024]

Just got mine back. loaner was a 2019 Mitsubishi Eclipse Crossover, badly designed and cheap, just an FYI. Said they did an update tp fix screen, guess wht this morning did not work and since the braking problem did not happen to them, its ok. Next time brake goes, for file lemon law

[AZPete]

It's been 2 weeks, so David what's happening?

[NiceGuyEddie]

A 2021 Ford Expedition King Ranch just became a part of my family. I hope it's not THAT close a cousin to the Explorer. I must say this thread came into mind, but the decision was not fully mine. It's a lease, but still...

[David Hodgkins]

Eddie the platforms are different. I don't know of any issues relating to the Expedition.
:)

[first time builder]

Ok Spoke to soon driveing home and tach revved all the way and car didnt move. I got it back today with a NEW transmission.

[David Hodgkins]

Ok Spoke to soon driveing home and tach revved all the way and car didnt move. I got it back today with a NEW transmission.

Ugh. Ya know, it would be interesting to run the numbers to see if quality control has fallen across the industry due to Covid.

So... Update.

Got a call from the dealer service manager today. He said I should call Ford and get a CAS number to begin the buyback process. Turns out I'm lucky here because I called Ford when this whole fiasco started - 2 days after the deal was made - and there was already a "case worker" assigned and I already had that number, which I passed along. I didn't speak with "my guy" at Ford but the person who helped me said he was scheduled to call me Tuesday.

At this point I'm starting to feel cautiously optimistic. But that's kinda' my nature anyway. Hoping for the best!

:)

[Papa]

Good luck, Dave. I hope Ford buys it back and you can move on.

[merim123]

These are the links I send my friends that every now and then try to get me to buy a Ford. I remind them of
F=Fix
O=Or
R=Repair
D=Daily

LOL. Sorry to hear about your problems.

[Ray]

Did they make you keep up on the monthly lease payments all this time?

Ray

[Traveller]

These are the links I send my friends that every now and then try to get me to buy a Ford. I remind them of
F=Fix
O=Or
R=Repair
D=Daily

LOL. Sorry to hear about your problems.

F=Found
O=On
R=Road
D=Dead

I'm a Ford fan, and they have addressed their quality issues from the 80's which led to such acronyms, but it appears they have some issues today... Sad because my wife wants an Explorer ST and I was ready to buy, but now I'm reconsidering.

[RBachman]

The first and only Ford I ever owned was a F-250 King Ranch, and it was taken back on a Lemon Law for what should have been easy repairs. This and issues with other brands caused me to give up on most "modern" American factory cars a while ago. I had quality issues with nearly every one I've owned and that's a lot of cars.

[Turbo]

Thank god for the lemon law. My new expedition is as good as any car I have had so far. No complaints. Smooth, power, love the eco boost.

[Robert Andrew]

We lease one vehicle every 3 years as a commuter, primarily for my wife.

Day before yesterday I leased a 2020 Ford Explorer XLT.

I made a HUGE MISTAKE getting this POS Ford.


No AC.
A random collision alert sounded at a stop light.
The transmission is unbearable.



Cali is a no-cooling-off period state. Once it's off the lot there is no unwinding.

:mad:

I think I'll stick an LS in the F9.

Well, it's hard to feel sorry for you if you didn't pay attention to what you were leasing! So because you were asleep at the wheel, the car is a piece of ****??? Some how, I just don't feel sorry for you!

[David Hodgkins]

Well.
Ok then.
Noted.

[TMartinLVNV]

Well.
Ok then.
Noted.

Dave, I hope you learned your lesson. I personally check the DOT numbers of every tire, the A/C system pressure, the radio presets, the speakers to ensure they are in phase, the cruise control at each MPH, each step of the intermittent wipers, the turn signal rate both left AND right), the headlight light output and aligning, the wheel alignment, the oil and transmission fluid levels, the lug nut torque, and the head bolt torque of each car that I buy.

Actually, I do that before each test drive. Really pisses the salesman off.

[JAE]

Wow, that seems pretty harsh. I know there is such a thing as buyer beware, but I would expect a 2020 vehicle from dealer should be ready to go and have everything working properly. Years ago when I worked at a ford dealer, we did an extensive PDI on it before it ever hit the lot. If something was missed and not working, it should have been taken care of in a timely manner - I guess the dealer doesn't rely on repeat customers!

I think David has been more than patient with them- I know some people that would have driven it through the showroom window by now.

Anyway, just my 2- cents worth.

Thanks John

[David Hodgkins]

../I think David has been more than patient with them- I know some people that would have driven it through the showroom window by now.

/..

That would be pretty hard, they've had the vehicle since December 15.

I'm passing the 28 day threshold, and missed a call from Ford yesterday. I got a text from the service rep that the dealer GM is calling me tomorrow.

We'll see what happens in the next day or two. I think we're getting down to crunch time.

:)

[JohnK]

Well, it's hard to feel sorry for you if you didn't pay attention to what you were leasing! So because you were asleep at the wheel, the car is a piece of ****??? Some how, I just don't feel sorry for you!

So many keyboard heroes nowadays.

[LAPick]

Which dealer, David?

[David Hodgkins]

Which dealer, David?

Tuttle-Click Ford, Irvine. Down the street from your old digs!

Just got off the phone with Ford. We contacted the dealer and got status. Currently they are waiting on parts with no indication from Ford when they will arrive.

We filled out the template for the buyback request. Now I have to wait up to 10 business days before Ford will approve or deny. We added all pertinent info to the request to they should have a full picture of the issue, the status and what it "should" take to fix the car.

When we reach the 15th the car will have been out of service for 30 days during the first 18,000 miles, which in California is described as one of the triggers of the lemon law. I'm hopeful that Ford will make the right decision.

The Ford rep also indicated that at some point she will put in a request to have my 2 payments reversed since the car has been out of service the whole time.

:)

[Papa]

Tuttle-Click Ford, Irvine. Down the street from your old digs!

Just got off the phone with Ford. We contacted the dealer and got status. Currently they are waiting on parts with no indication from Ford when they will arrive.

We filled out the template for the buyback request. Now I have to wait up to 10 business days before Ford will approve or deny. We added all pertinent info to the request to they should have a full picture of the issue, the status and what it "should" take to fix the car.

When we reach the 15th the car will have been out of service for 30 days during the first 18,000 miles, which in California is described as one of the triggers of the lemon law. I'm hopeful that Ford will make the right decision.

The Ford rep also indicated that at some point she will put in a request to have my 2 payments reversed since the car has been out of service the whole time.

:)

Sounds promising, Dave. Not sure if you plan to buy something else if this all works out for you, but I'll point to the Lexus RX350 if you want a really nice car that will see the dealer for regular service and not much else, and always with a courtesy loaner. Look closely at the lease turn-in CPO cars. Fantastic warranty for low mileage cars that are nearly new, or lease a new one! They are beautiful to drive. My wife has a 2019 that is fully optioned, including ice-cold A/C!

Dave

[LAPick]

Tuttle-Click Ford, Irvine. Down the street from your old digs!

Just got off the phone with Ford. We contacted the dealer and got status. Currently they are waiting on parts with no indication from Ford when they will arrive.

We filled out the template for the buyback request. Now I have to wait up to 10 business days before Ford will approve or deny. We added all pertinent info to the request to they should have a full picture of the issue, the status and what it "should" take to fix the car.

When we reach the 15th the car will have been out of service for 30 days during the first 18,000 miles, which in California is described as one of the triggers of the lemon law. I'm hopeful that Ford will make the right decision.

The Ford rep also indicated that at some point she will put in a request to have my 2 payments reversed since the car has been out of service the whole time.

:)

That was my guess. Bought my second Explorer there in 2002. They haven't seen me since. Got my '17 at Santa Margarita - MUCH better experience. Oh, all three of my Explorers have been perfectly reliable (until #2 split the plastic radiator tank at 240,000 miles and the wife didn't pull over right away)

[David Hodgkins]

The Dealer GM called yesterday. He assured me he is onboard with the buyback and is confident Ford will make the right decision. He also said the paperwork could take a while as there seems to be quite a backlog. He assured me he would make sure there would be no out-of-pocket expense to me.

Good to hear.

So we continue to wait. Of course my wife has already moved on the see what else is in the market. I'll post later what she likes and doesn't. Me? I'm in no hurry at all.


I'll have to make sure to do a better job this time to gain Mr. Andrew's empathy should something go wrong again.
:rolleyes:

[RBachman]

I found this inspection kit online, maybe it will help. (LOLOL).

140756



The Dealer GM called yesterday. He assured me he is onboard with the buyback and is confident Ford will make the right decision. He also said the paperwork could take a while as there seems to be quite a backlog. He assured me he would make sure there would be no out-of-pocket expense to me.

Good to hear.

So we continue to wait. Of course my wife has already moved on the see what else is in the market. I'll post later what she likes and doesn't. Me? I'm in no hurry at all.


I'll have to make sure to do a better job this time to gain Mr. Andrew's empathy should something go wrong again.
:rolleyes:

[David Hodgkins]

I found this inspection kit online, maybe it will help. (LOLOL).

140756

Indubitably!! Precisely!! Incontrovertible!

And all that rot!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=94661&d=1538695059

[David Hodgkins]

Got my offer letter from Ford today. A couple of minor details to work out to make it 0-sum cost but we're almost there. I'm hoping to accept their offer by the end of the month.

Almost there... and then this fiasco will be OVER!

[Papa]

Great news, Dave! Good to see Ford do the right thing.

[GoDadGo]

Great news, Dave! Good to see Ford do the right thing.

D-D-D-Double Ditto On The Good News!

[Jeff Kleiner]

Happy to hear that it's ending well but what a pain in the rear to get there, huh? Hopefully whatever comes next is trouble free :)

Jeff

[Al_C]

Glad to hear the end is imminent. I have one word for you: Volvo. :o

[David Hodgkins]

Happy to hear that it's ending well but what a pain in the rear to get there, huh? Hopefully whatever comes next is trouble free :)

Jeff

Feeling pretty gun shy right now, not sure which vehicle will take it's place. I test drove everything in the segment, but at this point we may pause for a while before going forward.

:)

[Papa]

https://www.lemonlaw.com/carcomplaintindex.html

https://www.caranddriver.com/research/a32878986/most-reliable-cars/

[first time builder]

AS I had told you they had to replace my transmission in my 2021 Buick with 480 miles on it. Well 200 miles after getting it back the front wheel drive stopped working, car only went in 4wd. seems like an axle retaining clip failed ( or was not properly installed when transmission was replaced). The day after getting it back i drove from NY to Florida about 1200 miles with no problems and the ride quality and fuel mileage was great.

[JohnK]

I know some are going to flame for this, but we've had 5 Mercedes now without a single problem. Furthermore, the dealership experience with MBZ is unlike anything I've ever seen anywhere else. It's like talking to normal humans vs. snake-oil salesmen.

[Papa]

I know some are going to flame for this, but we've had 5 Mercedes now without a single problem. Furthermore, the dealership experience with MBZ is unlike anything I've ever seen anywhere else. It's like talking to normal humans vs. snake-oil salesmen.

Likewise with Lexus. They pamper their customers.

[David Hodgkins]

I received a revised offer today and a call from both Ford and the dealer. Both sides seem to be aligned. I went over the buyout cost and payment refund amounts with both sides and they are in agreement that I am at 0 cost so I've signed and return the offer form to Ford.

The last step is they will set a "closing time", essentially an appointment to go to the dealer, sign paperwork and turn in the keys and the free rental they've let me have for the past month+.

If it weren't for the fact that the Explorer should have been tested before being put up for sale in the first place, I would have to give praise to both sides for getting the buyback done promptly and without hassle.

I have no desire to get another Ford (that I can afford) so the $1500 rebate will go unused unfortunately...

Thanks for all (-1) for the support, and David (Papa) the links you supplied were enough for me to go forward with confidence and not take no for and answer.

My next update should be when I get the return date scheduled!

:)

[RBachman]

I know some are going to flame for this, but we've had 5 Mercedes now without a single problem. Furthermore, the dealership experience with MBZ is unlike anything I've ever seen anywhere else. It's like talking to normal humans vs. snake-oil salesmen.

Dittos for us John, we've purchased 5 new in the last ten years and every single one has been a pleasure. Except one, and it was my wife's S550! Something failed that wasn't fixable in the shop. But THEY called us saying they were replacing our car. We were treated very well through the entire thing and did little more than signing some papers and ordering a new car.

[David Hodgkins]

I've purchased a Mercedes before and yes, it's next level service at the dealer. They did thorough inspections and routinely replaced a bunch of stuff under warrantee.

Unfortunately they are out of the ballpark for me at this time, especially while I'm trying to save for the F9.

:)

[GoDadGo]

Dave,

I'm a big Mopar Fan, have a Challenger and a Ram 1500 so with that said, have you looked at the Durango?
Both vehicles sport the 3.6 V-6 and I have no issues towing my boats or the Cobra behind the Ram.
Also, Paul Borror had a Durango a few years back and I think he had good service out of it.

Congratulations On Ditching Da-Lemon!

Steve

[David Hodgkins]

Hi Steve,

Yes, I have looked at the Durango. I liked it! It, the Mazda CX-9, GMC Acadia, Subaru Forrester and Kia Telluride are on the current short list. The Kia dealer wants a 5K premium over sticker so unless I find a dealer more accommodating it won't make the cut.

Dealer premiums piss me off.

:)

[Olli]

Dave, we have had a great experience with our 2014 Durango R/T AWD. When we bought it we traded in an Explorer that was nothing but trouble. 7 years and 66,000 miles all we had to have done were the rear shocks at around 60,000 miles. There is something to be said about a proven powertrain and the simplicity of port injection, and no turbo(s) or direct injection. The ZF 8 speed is simply fantastic. We liked it so much that when we were recently shopping for a new vehicle for our son we ended up ordering a 2021 Durango R/T Tow n'Go AWD. The R/T with the Tow n' Go (you have to love how Dodge has fun naming cars) is basically an SRT but with the 5.7 Hemi. 6 piston Brembos in the front 4 piston in the rear, multi mode Bilstien suspension, electronic limited slip, active exhaust that really snarls and can tow over 8000 lbs. Yes it comes with a class IV hitch and a built in brake controller ( what other mid size SUV has that?). Ours is being built right now and as of this morning it was "in paint". We should have it in 2-3 weeks. For pricing you should be able to get one for 1-2% below INVOICE. We got 1.7% below invoice. If you would like to get a minimum of 1% below invoice on a FCA product, PM me. Incentives are quite good as well.

The Durango can be equipped with some excellent safety tech. I really like the "Blind Spot and Cross Path Detection" (XAN) option. It is one of the few vehicles that not only give you a visual but also an audible warning. Add that option with the Technology Group (ADG) to give you some additional safety tech.
Go to Dodge.com to find out what specifically comes with the Tow n'Go

Here are a couple of You Tube reviews of a Durango R/T with Tow n'Go
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K7ukxcKfJ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7a6h5YF-fU&t=322s

Olli

[GoDadGo]

Kia Telluride are on the current short list. The Kia dealer wants a 5K premium over sticker so unless I find a dealer more accommodating it won't make the cut.



No car is worth paying the sticker prices much less a premium over that amount.

Keep Shopping!

[RBachman]

Wow, that's a significant add on over the sticker for a Kia and in a few months the prices will likely drop as inventory catches up. I found this site useful in the past. https://www.truecar.com

According to Trucar, the average Telluride bump over MSRP is $2,114. However, they claim to put you in touch with dealers charging less. We buy more cars than average and have found it's much easier to do it remotely and online. It's an effort to avoid these unfair markups and common dealer manipulation games. Often automotive insurance companies have similar programs that cause dealerships to compete against each other more so than the customer. Cars are a commodity, so buy from the least expensive proposal. As a curtesy, we ask the local guy to match or beat the best offer. And it then becomes their decision if they want to do business with us. At the end of the day, they want your money in their bank more than they want that car on their lot.

Good luck with everything!



......The Kia dealer wants a 5K premium over sticker so unless I find a dealer more accommodating it won't make the cut.

Dealer premiums piss me off.

:)

[Papa]

I've only encountered this type of a dealer markup once. In 1998 I was shopping for a Dodge Ram 1500. The big dealer near me had several on the lot, but was asking for $2-3k over MSRP listed as a competitive markup or junk like that. I contacted a dealer 30 miles north of Denver and drove off the lot $2,500 under MSRP. That's ~$5k difference for a 30-mile drive. With the technology available today, I don't understand why car dealerships are even needed. I can order on-line from any existing inventory, so why pay a dealership to sell me a car when I could just as easily buy direct if the industry would just evolve?

[RoadRacer]

FWIW I love our new (to us) Grand Cherokee Limitedbbought via Carvana. It was a beautiful process - 7 days to try the car and return it. Delivered to your house. No silly dealer games with pushing the paper across the desk with 'best offers". I got the luxury version for my wife, but it's plenty quick enough, and very comfortable. I now have my eyes on the trackhawk version :D

[JohnK]

I don't understand why car dealerships are even needed. I can order on-line from any existing inventory, so why pay a dealership to sell me a car when I could just as easily buy direct if the industry would just evolve?

I think this thread explains EXACTLY why having a relationship with a dealership that treats customers well is needed. Good luck getting a car that you bought online bought back via the lemon law if you ever have a major problem like David did.

I agree though, that going in and doing the whole "let me check with my manager" schtick is total BS. Just reach out to the dealership's internet or fleet manager via e-mail, let them know what you want, and ask them for a quote. In my experience, those folks are pretty no-nonsense and will come back with a reasonable offer pretty quickly without the pain of having to deal with the bottom-feeders walking the dealership floor.

[Papa]

I don't disagree dealerships are nice for trained repair techs and factory parts, but the sales part is becoming obsolete. The dealer isn't buying Dave's car back, Ford is. I think that would be the case regardless of how a new car were purchased.

[edwardb]

As Steve (GoDadGo) said, we had a Durango. Actually we've had two. A 2011 and then a 2014. Both the top line Citadel AWD version. Liked them both, but the newer one with the eight-speed automatic transmission was a big improvement. Especially when we towed the SE. Have no issue recommending the Durango. Solid car, nice to drive, ours were essentially trouble-free. The 3.6L Pentastar V-6 I think has a good reputation and I was always happy with how it ran and drove. Every year I read that they're going to drop the Durango because it competes with the Grand Cherokee. So they're basically stealing market share from each other. FCA recently announced a 3-row version of the Grand Cherokee. So wonder again what will happen with the Durango. They're built side-by-side at the same plant here in SE Michigan. No experience with the V-8 version.

About a 1-1/2 years ago we traded our 2014 Durango for a Lincoln Aviator. Basically the same platform as the Explorer discussed here and built at the same plant in Chicago. Which has had a number of issues. Ours has been perfect and by far the nicest car we've ever owned. But I was very aware they had significant launch issues and all the vehicles were going from the plant to a holding lot in Flat Rock (where Mustangs are built) and being thoroughly tested and in some cases reworked. I don't know any details about ours except it was built just a month or two before we took delivery. We took a chance because we liked it so much and so far haven't regretted it. Tows the SE like it's not even there. The Lincoln dealer experience is also quite a move up from the typical Ford dealership. Sorry to hear about your issues with the Explorer. But glad it's being taken care of. I totally understand after what you've gone through you wouldn't buy another Ford. But for the record, there's not a single brand that doesn't have examples of this. Unfortunately.

[nucjd19]

Wow. Things have changed. I have a 2010 F350 super duty Triton V10 for my horse farm. We have been using it to trailer our goose neck trailers for years and has been mechanically bomb proof. I was thinking of getting a F150 when I decide to sell my current car ( Audi A6) because I miss having the truck bed when I need it and want to sit higher; but maybe will peruse the market and follow reviews for a while before I commit. This has been quite an instructional thread.

[David Hodgkins]

I'm free!

I got a call yesterday to come in to sign paperwork. Basically it's just a few forms, selling the vehicle back to Ford.

I was presented with a check for expenses incurred so far, with no usage fees. Basically I got my 1st payment back. Down payment and tax/lic fees were absorbed by incentives so there were no out of pocket expenses there.

SO...

Now we try again. We are going to change it up and are now looking for something a bit smaller, although that Durango is still on my personal radar.

Thanks so much for the feedback and support! I love this forum for that.

:)

PS when I get an Idea of what vehicles I've narrowed a new list down to. I'd like to post about how to get the best deal. Several of you made very pointed observations on how to go about getting the best deal, I'd like to lean into that conversation a bit.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Great to hear that you are coming through financially unscathed!

I'm not usually one to make recommendations because I don't typically stay on top of all of the latest models and developments but I can relate some personal experience. We don't change vehicles often but in 2012 it was time to put my wife into something new. I'd always heard good things about Subarus so we bought her a new Forester. She uses the heck out of her cars and they rarely stay parked long enough for the coolant to reach ambient temperature. As of today that Forester has 237,000 miles and the extent of the repairs is a bunch of oil changes, 3 sets of tires, several sets of wiper blades, 2 sets of brake pads, one tail light bulb and one front axle shaft. It went to the dealer last year for an airbag recall and came back washed for probably the first time in a year. That's it...the thing seems to be about as indestructible as an anvil. Take it for what it's worth.

Jeff

[David Hodgkins]

Jeff,

Thanks for the input. It is sound for sure and I like the Subaru. But as this car is primarily for my wife, per her wishes I spent a whole weekend trying to make a deal for a Kia Telluride. NO dealer in So Cal was willing to sell at less than $1500 ABOVE MSRP.

Yeah, well, homie don't play dat. Extremely frustrating!

On a whim, we looked at Tesla. Lesa went gaga for the interior and looks and I went gaga for the acceleration. So we placed an order for a Y with white interior($1K) standard range, 7 seater($3K) and with the upgraded wheels($2K)for a total of $6K in upgrades. The only way to swing the deal was to Trade in the Excursion (the beast), which they offered $7300 for. Not bad for a 20 year old truck!

But I love the beast.

So after some discussion, we stripped all options except the interior and are keeping the beast. The lead time was set to 2-3 weeks initially but since we cut it down to a very basic but popular setup we took delivery just five days later. And you can see in the background I still have the beast.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=142982&d=1613759549

As you can tell, Lesa is very happy about her new car!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=142983&d=1613759559

A few interesting notes. There are no lease buyout option on these. Tesla is building a fleet of driverless Y and 3's for a new driverless Taxi division. So we decided to go with a purchase. Time will tell how that plays out because when we buy a vehicle we run it into the ground. The last new vehicle I purchased was the Excursion in 2000. Well, not counting the Roadster but I had to build that!

Also, every person I spoke with at Tesla had an awesome attitude. The buying experience at a Tesla showroom is the polar opposite of the traditional dealer haggle and finance torture.

:)

[GoDadGo]

Happy Wife, Happy Life!

[Papa]

Congrats, Dave! Looks like a very happy lady you've got there. I have talked to a couple of folks with different models of Tesla, and they've all raved over their cars.

Dave

[Jeff Kleiner]

Well there you go! Hope she loves it Dave :) You'll have to keep us updated about your impressions as you guys start to rack up some miles. The only person who I know that owns one is a guy who comes to autocross with us from time to time---it's a fast sonuvagun and he loves it!

Jeff

[David Hodgkins]

Here's another cool little tidbit. Yesterday (The day of the delivery) Tesla announced a $2000 price REDUCTION, After I had agreed to the price and just just 2 hours before the scheduled delivery. Tesla wasn't open yet on the west coast so I called a dealer on the east coast who told me that they were told everyone in the pipeline, signed or not, would automatically get the price reduction. Sure enough, just before I took delivery the price adjusted in my online documents.

Do you think a traditional dealer would have honored the price reduction?

:)

[RBachman]

.........
Do you think a traditional dealer would have honored the price reduction?

:)

Maybe if you knew about it, mentioned it, got them to agree to it and then made sure they didn't add it back in somewhere. LOL

[DSR-3]

Great ending!
Has she challenged you to a race yet?

[David Hodgkins]

Great ending!
Has she challenged you to a race yet?

I could take her. My roadster is still a bit quicker and she drives like a...

Oh right, like I'm gonna say it.

:D

[David Hodgkins]

BTW We named her EEEVA:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=142997&d=1613774063

:)

[Papa]

Does that make your roadster's name WALL-E?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143012&d=1613782978

[David Hodgkins]

Does that make your roadster's name WALL-E?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143012&d=1613782978

Nah, doesn’t really match the look. I think what I have fits well, don’t ya think?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131285&d=1594078152

:)

[RoadRacer]

Talk about both ends of the spectrum - a start-of-the-art electric and the largest truck/SUV ever made :D

[first time builder]

Keep us informed as to how much your electric bill goes up every month.

[David Hodgkins]

Talk about both ends of the spectrum - a start-of-the-art electric and the largest truck/SUV ever made :D

Sign of the times! I'm starting to wonder what it would take to go electric with the F9...


Keep us informed as to how much your electric bill goes up every month.

It will be interesting for sure. As is, we are not driving much and using a standard 110 outlet to charge it. Once charged the charger shuts off (unlike a battery tender for example so yeah, it will be interesting to see what happens with the power bill.

:)