Heed help from the Coyote guys: coyote won't turn over?

[CobraKan]

I tried the initial start Friday morning, Battery power good, fuel pump ran the 10 second, engine turned out without starting. I tried several times then nothing! when I turned on the ignition the fuel pump worked Adjusted fuel regulator NOTHING. The fuses in the PDB are good and I am getting NO power to the Trigger wire on the starter. HELP

[edwardb]

Not sure what "engine turned out without starting" means. I assume you mean it's not cranking over? Are you getting +12 on the Coyote pigtail Light Blue Starter Motor Request (SMR) wire? Typically that's fed by the blue start wire on the Ron Francis harness. And I'm assuming it's wired to the proper terminal on the ignition switch. Another thing to check is the clutch bottom switch in the Coyote harness. Positive it's installed and adjusted properly, and closed when you push the clutch all the way down? I'm also assuming you can put +12V on the small terminal on the starter solenoid, e.g. a jumper from the battery, and the starter spins.

[Al_C]

Edwardb is on it. There are two wires that interface between the coyote and the RF harness: light blue and orange. If one of those connections is bad, it will not start. That happened with mine. Please follow edwardb's advice and then ensure that the interface between the coyote pigtail and the RF wires are good. That's my opinion, for what it's worth.

[CobraKan]

Thanks for the response. That was engine turned over several times when trying to start, then nothing (no response) when trying to start. Yes to all the questions. I jumped the starter connections and the engine turned over. Seems like it is in the Ford wiring harness or the computer. Battery is 12.26 volts so I put it on a Battery Tender.

[CobraKan]

I have checked the light blue wire and have continuity but have not checked the green (trigger) wire to the orange (EFI/coil). I think that is orange wire label. I’ll check that tomorrow. The thing that got me confessed is it turned over several times before would not turn over.

[edwardb]

I have checked the light blue wire and have continuity but have not checked the green (trigger) wire to the orange (EFI/coil). I think that is orange wire label. I’ll check that tomorrow. The thing that got me confessed is it turned over several times before would not turn over.

You're not checking those wires for continuity. You're checking them to have voltage. The light green Ignition Relay Trigger wire should have +12V at all times when the key is on. Typically from the RF EFI/Coil wire as you mentioned. The light blue Starter Motor Request wire should have +12V when the key is in the start position.

FWIW -- there was a thread a couple weeks ago with nearly the exact symptoms. Turned out to be a ground issue. Check all your grounds. They need to be firm onto bare metal.

[nuhale]

I had some trouble with my Gen 2. Lots of 4 letter words coming out of my garage. I had all the wiring triple checked... Pulled the harness and inspected everything... over 30 hours searching for the culprit. Turned out my clutch safety switch (ground switch) was the issue. The ground in the coyote harness for this switch is an eyelet that was cracked and separated inside the plastic cover. Just a small little eyelet stake on was the problem and looked absolutely fine to the eye.

When you turn ignition on do you hear the throttle body & fuel pump activate? This would be a key indicator that the issue is not with the 2 wires.

Check your grounds with a continuity tester. GOOD LUCK!

[edwardb]

This was the thread I was thinking of in my post #6. Also a ground related issue: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?37964-Gen-3-coyote-fuel-pump-not-getting-power&p=435674#post435674.

[lewma]

If there's power getting to the ODB2 port you could put a checker on there and see if it's spitting out codes ?

[edwardb]

If there's power getting to the ODB2 port you could put a checker on there and see if it's spitting out codes ?

If it's wired properly, e.g. PDB has unswitched battery power per Ford instructions, there should be power on the ODB2 port all the time. So the scanner should light up when plugged in. Turning on the ignition will start the communication and read any codes. Agree that would be a good check to confirm power in the right places. Even if there aren't any DTC's.

[CobraKan]

If it's wired properly, e.g. PDB has unswitched battery power per Ford instructions, there should be power on the ODB2 port all the time. So the scanner should light up when plugged in. Turning on the ignition will start the communication and read any codes. Agree that would be a good check to confirm power in the right places. Even if there aren't any DTC's.

Edwardb, I have unstitched power to the PDB and when I plug into the ODB@ port I get readings that say I am connected and the instructions say to start the engine... back to a Catch 22, because the engine does not respond to the start command.

I am wondering if I might have a bad relay. Going to check the relays tomorrow when I get back to my garage. The other thing is could there be a problem with the computer? Remember it turned over several times before it did not turn over, and now it is playing dead.

Also, I cannot hear the fuel pump hum when I turn on the key, it did earlier and now not sure I may just not be hearing it. Thought I might de-pressurize the fuel line and try of bypass the computer and check it directly.

[edwardb]

Edwardb, I have unstitched power to the PDB and when I plug into the ODB@ port I get readings that say I am connected and the instructions say to start the engine... back to a Catch 22, because the engine does not respond to the start command.

I am wondering if I might have a bad relay. Going to check the relays tomorrow when I get back to my garage. The other thing is could there be a problem with the computer? Remember it turned over several times before it did not turn over, and now it is playing dead.

Also, I cannot hear the fuel pump hum when I turn on the key, it did earlier and now not sure I may just not be hearing it. Thought I might de-pressurize the fuel line and try of bypass the computer and check it directly.

You don't have to actually start the engine for the scanner to work. It should detect voltage when you plug it in. Sounds like you do and that's good. Then you only have to move the ignition key to "run" and it should start communicating. It should say "No DTC's" or something to that effect. Or list any codes if there are any. If it's doing both of those not much else you can do. That suggests (1) you have power to the Coyote system, and (2) the PCM is alive.

Personally I doubt the PCM is the problem. Could be obviously. But based on my experience and exposure to a bunch of other installations, very rare. Almost always the issue is a fuse, relay, wiring, etc. You haven't said anything about checking grounds. That's by far the most common problem. The other very common problem is the clutch switch. That's easy enough to test. Unplug the harness and jumper the pins, e.g. always on. See if the starter spins.

The fuel pump only runs very briefly when you first turn on the key to "run." It's easy to miss. It pressurizes the system and shuts back off until the engine actually starts. It also has about a 10 second delay. So if you shut the key back off and then immediately turn on, nothing happens. You have to wait about 10 seconds after switching off for the system to reset before the pump runs again. You can hear the fuel pump relay in the PDB click off when it resets.

[Erik W. Treves]

Are you sure that the RUN/START pole on the start switch is wire correctly - I have done this before where I was losing spark on crank.

[CobraKan]

Are you sure that the RUN/START pole on the start switch is wire correctly - I have done this before where I was losing spark on crank.

I have checked the Run/Start power when in start position, but no engine cranking. Checked starter and with external switch engine cranks.

[CobraKan]

You don't have to actually start the engine for the scanner to work. It should detect voltage when you plug it in. Sounds like you do and that's good. Then you only have to move the ignition key to "run" and it should start communicating. It should say "No DTC's" or something to that effect. Or list any codes if there are any. If it's doing both of those not much else you can do. That suggests (1) you have power to the Coyote system, and (2) the PCM is alive.

Personally I doubt the PCM is the problem. Could be obviously. But based on my experience and exposure to a bunch of other installations, very rare. Almost always the issue is a fuse, relay, wiring, etc. You haven't said anything about checking grounds. That's by far the most common problem. The other very common problem is the clutch switch. That's easy enough to test. Unplug the harness and jumper the pins, e.g. always on. See if the starter spins.

The fuel pump only runs very briefly when you first turn on the key to "run." It's easy to miss. It pressurizes the system and shuts back off until the engine actually starts. It also has about a 10 second delay. So if you shut the key back off and then immediately turn on, nothing happens. You have to wait about 10 seconds after switching off for the system to reset before the pump runs again. You can hear the fuel pump relay in the PDB click off when it resets.

Yesterday morning I checked the R3 and R4 relays put them back into the PDB and the engine cranked WOW GOOD NEWS. After cranking several times with no start it again quit cranking. Messed with the relays again and nothing. Thinking about switching to a 302 based engine!!! Talked to my mechanic, he has been down with the Wuhan Flu, and going to have him bring over his scanner and try to read codes when he is able.

[Al_C]

Maybe you've done this already; maybe not. As soon as I saw that you were checking the relays in the PDB it reminded me.

We've seen in the above responses that the interface between the coyote pigtail and the RF harness are critical. You have a light blue wire on the pigtail. That connects to the RF blue EFI/crank wire. You have a light green pigtail wire. It connects to the RF orange EFI/Coil wire.

If you wouldn't mind humoring me, please check the connections on those two pairs. What kind of connector did you use? Is it solid? I had a poor connection on mine for both wires and experienced similar symptoms. (this is what I was getting at earlier, but didn't do a very good job). Try moving those connections around while you try to crank it over with the key. Or, just get rid of the present connectors and put in a weatherpak or similar. I believe your problem has to be something simple like this. Maybe it isn't those wires, but I bet it's a connection problem.

Or, maybe you did this already and I missed it.

[Erik W. Treves]

Yesterday morning I checked the R3 and R4 relays put them back into the PDB and the engine cranked WOW GOOD NEWS. After cranking several times with no start it again quit cranking. Messed with the relays again and nothing. Thinking about switching to a 302 based engine!!! Talked to my mechanic, he has been down with the Wuhan Flu, and going to have him bring over his scanner and try to read codes when he is able.

Are you using the FFR start switch? I have seen and it has been reported that every now and again people get a "bad one" - have you tried just putting a autozone start switch in there yet?