Important Subjects to Research / Learn About Before a Build

[bspaulsen]

I'm going to be putting in an order for a Type 65 Coupe-R in about six months' time (buying a new house, setting up the new garage).

I'm looking for some direction / subjects of interest that relate to an FFR build for a guy who has done general maintenance to all vehicles he's owned, but hasn't delved particularly deep into an engine bay. Things you wish you'd known or things you view as technical expertise that a novice may need to research.

Trying to compile a list of topics I need to read up on before I get to my build - things I have been slowly gathering from all the Type 65 / Roadster builds:


How to properly bleed a brake system + power steering + cooling system (and does a transmission sys need bleeding)
How to bend and route stainless steel brake hard-lines
How to apply brake safety wires (never knew about this until edwardb/P100DHG)
Licensing in California for a Coupe-R (seems unlikely with the roll cage)
Pros/Cons of an in-tank fuel sys/outside-tank fuel sys (and should the lines be braided/hardlined/etc)
Sound deadening and coatings for heat mitigation

I'd love some input on stuff y'all think I'd need to learn pre-build so I don't blow workdays away on YouTube. Thanks in advance!

[Papa]

First off, I was in exactly the same place as you three years ago, so maybe the following will help.

1. Research title/registration requirements in your area before ordering your kit.
- What equipment is needed to get your car titled; wipers, reverse light, etc.?
- What is the process to get a VIN?
- What are your State's tax laws; required to pay sales tax in the year the kit is purchased?

2. Does your homeowner's insurance cover the full cost of parts for your build-in-progress? Most don't!!! Getting $500 for $40k in parts if there's a fire would be devastating!

3. Don't just read the build threads for your specific kit, but read those that cover other models. Many are similar with respect to mechanical systems like brakes, fuel systems, wiring, etc.

4. Read the manual cover-to-cover before you start slapping parts together!

5. Learn how to use Google to search this site! It's so much better than the built-in search tool.

[edwardb]

Welcome. You're doing the right thing researching in advance if you're not already experienced. Nearly everything you've listed can be gleaned from build threads and searches. Use Google for searching. From a Google prompt, type "site thefactoryfiveforum.com/ SEARCH TERM" without the quotes and entering whatever you want to find. Works great. Some of the topics you've listed don't have absolutes. They're subject to the personal opinion and build choice made by the builder. Spend $10 and buy/download the manual from Factory Five's site. Study it cover to cover several times. Not every detail is there. But you should get a good feel for it. Having said that, a couple comments on your points:


Lots of options for bleeding brakes. I've had great luck with pressure bleeding. Others will cite what they've had success with. Power steering isn't a big deal. Some mfg's (like KRC) recommend priming with a drill motor. Others just say start the engine and move the steering wheel stop-to-stop. Generally not critical. Cooling system depends on the engine and radiator/overflow setup.
Rigid SS brake lines are cool. But takes the right tools, the right material, the right technique for flaring, and a lot of patience. I install them and like them. But may not be for everyone, especially if you haven't done it before. The kit steel ones are significantly easier. Many recommend cunifer as also easy to work with. I haven't used it personally so can't give an opinion.
Tons of YouTube videos for safety wires. For the record, most put them in (I do) but Wilwood's instructions state only needed for track use. Street use the red Loctite (just a little!) is adequate.
Can't help you with California licensing. I assume you know the standard Coupe also has a roll cage. The R version has more bars, including right through the door opening. Hopefully you know what you're deciding there. I personally would only go with the R version for a pure track machine. The Coupe is hard enough to get in and out of without the extra bars. Same for any passengers or significant others you expect to ride with you.
In tank is cooler and quieter. Unless you're doing something unique, it's a well proven setup. Kit comes with rigid lines and rubber hose for each end. Some change those out (I do) others go full braided flex. Just make sure to get the right kind and be prepared to spend more.
Insulation is talked about a ton. Most will recommend the brand(s) product they used. Bunch of options on the market. The Coupe is loud. You're going to want to maximize as much as you can. And you'll still be wearing ear protection. Just happen to know that.

Hope that helps a little. Good luck.

[bspaulsen]

... better than the built-in search tool.

Papa, didn't think about the insurance route, thanks for that! I'm ironically currently reading your MKIV build, after finishing up all of Edwardb's and some 818's for flavor.


... Hope that helps a little. Good luck.

Edwardb, appreciate the input on bleeding in general. Your whole conundrum with potentially mounting the 65 overflow tank too low was the exact moment I realized I should probably ask around for some advice to fill my blindspots. My original plan was a track-specific Coupe-R - but after researching trailers and tow-options to and from track, I'm still mulling over sucking it up and trying to get it street legal. Looks like some DMV time is due. Definitely leaning toward your choice of an in-tank sys + the TrickFlow filter, in regards to your fuel sys comment.

Y'all are priceless to goons like me, thanks for your help!

[NAZ]

There is much to learn and it’s good you’re asking for study ideas which I’m sure you’ll get a bunch of good advice on where to focus. But I’ll simply suggest you go into this project with the attitude that it will be a great learning experience and expect to make mistakes along the way. Making mistakes is part of the learning curve but also expect mistakes & rework to add to the cost of the project so that will give you incentive to limit them as much as possible. Scope creep is another way to add cost so try to stay with the build plan as best you can.

Keep in mind that if we have limited applicable experience that makes us susceptible to not knowing what we don’t know so it’s a good idea to ask the Forum for help before tackling something that making a mistake would be hard to correct. Simply bolting on a part wrong and finding it doesn’t fit is usually easy to correct. Drilling a hole in a location that affects structural integrity of the chassis may not be as easily rectified. There’s no shame in asking and the Forum members are a great source of assistance. We all come from different backgrounds, education, and have different levels of experience. So, you’ll get a wide range of opinions to consider.

Most of all, have fun every chance you get. For me, I get excited every time I near the completion of a project. I’m just days away from completing my latest and can hardly wait to start the engine for the first time and get it on the road for test and tune before handing it over to the owner.

[Alan_C]

I highly recommend nickel copper brake and fuel lines over SS. Much easier to work with, but more of an effort to polish if you want bling. Also, buy an Eastwood brake line flaring tool, worth the $200 investment! I used ABS in my build, 24 connections, none leaked.

[narly1]

Have you considered build school?

And you can buy the assembly manual by itself from FFR long before you ever write the big cheque.

[bspaulsen]

There is much to learn...
Thanks for the input! I subscribe to the common held belief here (and elsewhere) that some of the best mistakes to learn from are ones that cost some money. I appreciate the knowledge anecdote, I'll probably be all over my build thread with silly q's; better to ask something dumb than to die on the track. :p


I highly recommend nickel copper brake and fuel lines...
I was actually just looking into some steel/SS/braided/NiCopp comparisons! The anti-rust internal and externals are really appealing, and easier flaring is a massive plus. Will probably be researching flaring tools in the near future. Thanks!


Have you considered build school?
And you can buy the assembly manual by itself from FFR long before you ever write the big cheque.
I have considered the build school, might be in the cards after the pandemic. I've been through the Type '65 manual three times now - shame there isn't a publicly available one to buy for the Coupe-R. Thanks!

[Alan_C]

Have you asked FF if they will sell you a PDF version of the Coupe-R manual? The MK4 manual was available in PDF form. Once you put down your deposit with FF, they should be willing to get you a PDF.

[bspaulsen]

Their direct email response was that the Coupe-R build manual is pretty much the same, which strikes me as odd because the Coupe-R has an additional bumper/canards, side-body vents, an APR spoiler with chassis mount, door bars, etc. Guess I'll have to wait on reading up on the fun stuff until after I place my order!

[KarlieBoe]

Hey all, newbie here.

While I understand the internet is a great resource, the information is often very scattered. Are there any books that have helped you guys build up a general base of knowledge?

I do have some experience working with my hands. I have recently taken up blacksmithing and have been having a blast. There are a lot of great guides out there like this (https://www.blacksmithtoolquickguide.com/Tool/Best-Blacksmith-Forge.html) one.

[Papa]

Hey all, newbie here.

While I understand the internet is a great resource, the information is often very scattered. Are there any books that have helped you guys build up a general base of knowledge?

The build manuals are pretty good and break things down into logical steps. If you really don't have any basic knowledge of automotive systems, perhaps something like this could help:

https://www.amazon.com/Auto-Fundamentals-Martin-W-Stockel/dp/1635636590/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=fundamentals+of+automotive+systems&qid=1607710012&sr=8-5

[narly1]

Their direct email response was that the Coupe-R build manual is pretty much the same...

I have a saying "Everything relates to everything" which I explain to mean that the skills, techniques and concepts that you learn from one task are transferrable to others. One just has to be clever enough to see the similarities and recall how the job was tackled the last time around. We call this resourcefulness and IMO it's the most important thing we can learn in life.

So while the MK4 manual might not show the installation of all of the same parts, it will show the major and dare I say it, also the critical ones that are common.

Don't worry, with all the resources you have at your disposal you got this.