Eaton's 818C Build -Primer [Archive]

Mark Eaton

12-05-2020, 11:28 PM

Last Tuesday the Stewart transport truck showed up with our 818C kit. My son Nick and I were ready to go!

This will be my second FFR build. I took possession of an MK4 Complete kit 8/2017. It was street legal 2/2020, not yet graduated. I have about 3500 miles on it and love the vehicle. The MK4 project is somewhat on hold in order to pursue this 818C project with my 14yo son, Nick. Long story short Nick came to me in August to discuss his options for a car when he turns 16. He asked me if we could restore an old vehicle , specifically a Porsche. We kicked things around a bit but when I showed him the 818 he immediately jumped on the idea.

In September we bought the donor, a 2006 Impreza

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138783&d=1607227911

Had a good time disassembling it

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138784&d=1607227966

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138785&d=1607228007

I think the day Stewart Transport showed up with the kit will live in both our memories forever.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138786&d=1607228099

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138787&d=1607228119

I will say that the experience so far has been very positive for both of us. Every weekend that I don't have to work we head out to the shop and chip away.

Scott Meyer

12-05-2020, 11:32 PM

MSumners

12-05-2020, 11:44 PM

Awesome Mark! Looking forward to following along.

Canadian818

12-06-2020, 08:56 AM

Love seeing these father son builds! What a great way to connect, teach valuable skills and life lessons along the way. Good luck with the build!

Vspeeds

12-06-2020, 07:01 PM

Mark
Thats awesome that you and your son will be building his new car together. Time with the young kids sure seem to fly by way too fast. I’m sure those upcoming memories will forever be cherrished.

Stay safe
Eddie

cv2065

12-06-2020, 07:11 PM

This is going to be a great project for you guys. He'll be able to drive that car away to college and beyond with the memories and all. My son is 15 and is going to be looking for his first car soon, as he just earned his restricted license. I asked him about doing the same, and not really interested. Oh well, to each his own. Look forward to watching your build.

Mark Eaton

12-07-2020, 12:37 AM

Very cool guys! We just got our 818S last week as well, and already have the engine installed! The previous build experience will help a lot on these projects.

EDIT: Just curious what your POL (back order list) consists of? Did you receive Box 6 which contains all of the aluminum panels?

Box 6 did not make it. We spent almost 4 hours on inventory yesterday and only made it through box 3. :rolleyes:
But I'm pretty sure all the other boxes are there. We are going pretty slow but having fun and not rushing. He won't be able to drive it until 3/2021 anyway.

Mark Eaton

12-07-2020, 12:39 AM

roadrashrob

12-07-2020, 09:42 AM

Welcome to the Father-Son crowd! Our kit is scheduled for pickup 12/19, but oddly enough even though they say that date is still good, it is a Saturday and they do not do pickups on Saturdays. Hoping for that Monday as my company closes for 2 weeks and my son will be off from school, so we can be "full time" builders!

In the mean time, so much to prep in anticipation of the kit arriving! Looking forward to following your progress and sharing lessons learned!

Mark Eaton

12-08-2020, 12:53 AM

Thanks Rob, I'll be following your thread as well. Interestingly, a buddy of mine was encouraging me to build my own Power coating oven and your thread has inspired me as well! I'm thinking about the options...

roadrashrob

12-08-2020, 08:35 AM

Was actually very easy. I bought a use oven on Craig's list for $100, some square 1" tubing from my local ironworks shop. 20' pieces are $15. Spent a little more on Galvanized" steel, but didn't want to paint it to prevent rust. Made it 2'x2'x4' to minimize waste on the 4'x10' sheet metal. My son got practice with riveting the oven BEFORE he pops them in the car! I also got fancy and modified the window to fit in the 1" tubing, but that wasn't necessary. Just happened to be clean class in the used oven I found!

138905138906138907138908

I know some of these will display sideways, but you'll get the jist! ;-)

Mark Eaton

12-23-2020, 12:47 AM

Well we're off and running on fabricating the new powder coating oven. I'm really excited about this thing, should have done it three years ago. I am using heavier gauge 2" steel square tubing and sheet metal than I had planned simply because it is what my steel supplier had on stock. Not a big deal, it will be fairly heavy and able to withstand a rocket attack.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=139702&d=1608701579

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=139703&d=1608701603

The right rear spindle/CV axle assembly is giving Nick and I a complete headache. We have been beating on it with a sledge hammer, heated it up with a torch, used an air hammer. I now have it in my press and soaking PB blaster. I think the knuckle will crack before the CV axle releases. Next step will either be a stick of dynamite or I'll just shred it up with my plasma cutter and throw it out in the road in a rant.:mad:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=139704&d=1608701638

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=139705&d=1608701663

GoDadGo

12-23-2020, 07:53 AM

You Guys Caught The Build Bug Really Bad!

...................Congratulations!

fletch

12-26-2020, 06:28 PM

The right rear spindle/CV axle assembly is giving Nick and I a complete headache. We have been beating on it with a sledge hammer, heated it up with a torch, used an air hammer. I now have it in my press and soaking PB blaster. I think the knuckle will crack before the CV axle releases. Next step will either be a stick of dynamite or I'll just shred it up with my plasma cutter and throw it out in the road in a rant.:mad:

One of ours damn near exploded when it came loose. It was crazy. We used a press similar to your setup. When it finally gave, it knocked two of us over who were holding the hub and support steel. And it bent up my buddy's press table support - the C-channel piece that holds your work in place. I replaced it a few weeks later. So, first... be careful - don't get hurt. We were lucky.
Second, continue using the PB Blaster and heat. Do this periodically over a few days. Time makes a difference here, probably due to the PB Blaster penetrating.

CCK

12-27-2020, 06:47 PM

Mark -- so excited to follow this build! Also please keep us up to date on your powdercoating oven -- looks great.
Look forward to visiting you again in Medford once I'm further along in my project, i.e. actually order and take delivery :)
-Chris

roadrashrob

12-29-2020, 06:33 PM

We just picked up our kit yesterday, and as for the rear axles I have to say the $110 FFR gets for them pre-built is about the best bargain on the car! No mess, no fuss, like new! Two nice clean boxes just waiting to be installed... :-)

Fman

01-09-2021, 01:00 AM

Subscribed, looking forward to watching your build! Have fun with your son, great project for him!

Mark Eaton

01-19-2021, 11:12 PM

We did not get as much done over Nick's Christmas break as I had planned. It turns out that he and I had differing priorities when it came to his break, LOL. At any rate, this past weekend we finally completed our inventory, AND, completed the Powder coating oven!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140994&d=1611113966

It's internal dimensions are 36"x36"x48" and it takes it an hour to get to 400* F. And we haven't actually powder coated anything yet :eek:

We pressed on and started following the manual, first up removing the AC Compressor and PS pump from the engine.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140995&d=1611114025

Next up removing the front outer CV housing. We tried "tapping" it with a hammer as per the manual but I could tell right away that wasn't going to work. I had read about the " bang it on the ground with a pipe trick" but our metal supply store was closed and I didn't have a pipe that would fit. I figured if I knicked the ball bearing cage with a cut-off wheel then hit it with an air hammer that high tempered steel should shatter.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140996&d=1611114068

worked like a charm.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140997&d=1611114100

Overall, it was a good weekend. Today my elective OR schedule was scuppered because our hospital is overrun with Covid patients so I was back in the shop!

I got a parts cleaner tub from Harbor Freight and modified it for the build. I added a oil filter using the remote filter adapter from my MK4 build

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140998&d=1611114158

Also, following AZPete's lead I made a chassis dolly. It was all scrap wood, the pallet was from my MK4 SBF engine from Forte and the carpet was left over from the MK4, the 2x4's were left over from one of my wife's projects.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140999&d=1611114363

roadrashrob

01-20-2021, 08:23 AM

cgundermann

01-20-2021, 11:39 AM

Another exciting build! Way cool my friend...

Chris

Mark Eaton

01-20-2021, 11:31 PM

Looking good! You'll appreciate the size of the oven on some of the parts. Mine is 24x24x48-outside (tried to minimize sheet metal 4' widths. Wish i made inside 48"), and it took some advanced geometry skills to fit the rear anti-sway bar in it. I put some rivnuts in the ceiling of it so I can screw 1/4" eyebolts in at various locations. For small parts, the racks work, so I have rails for the two of them that came with the oven. How much stuff are you missing that's on the POL? Major items for us, as with others, is box 6 of the packaged aluminum and the IRS brackets.

141020141021141022

Yes, we still have quite a bit on the POL list including box #6, but it won't be a problem. As you can see we are not setting any speed records for this build, we have plenty to do while waiting on the parts. I'm sure you can relate that working with a 14yo boy is sometimes like a comedy. We spend half our time looking for tools that he set down in the wrong place, and every time his phone tinkles he practically looses all focus.:rolleyes:

Its ok though, for me its more about spending time with him than the build itself.

roadrashrob

01-21-2021, 07:30 AM

Yes, we still have quite a bit on the POL list including box #6, but it won't be a problem. As you can see we are not setting any speed records for this build, we have plenty to do while waiting on the parts. I'm sure you can relate that working with a 14yo boy is sometimes like a comedy. We spend half our time looking for tools that he set down in the wrong place, and every time his phone tinkles he practically looses all focus.:rolleyes:

Its ok though, for me its more about spending time with him than the build itself.

Ha! I TOTALLY understand... Sounds exactly like my son, and yes, trying to make it more about the time together. Love the phone "tinkle" comment... I have the same issue if I need to just go to the toolbox to grab a different tool. Before I turn around he's whipped that phone out like quick draw McGraw! :-) But he's learning along the way, and we're communicating, so it's all worth it. Keep the posts up!

Mark Eaton

02-04-2021, 12:47 AM

We continue to make slow progress over the last couple of weekends. I have a buddy in his twenties, he's an OR nurse and fellow gear head. He and his wife have a newborn but when he's not busy he shows up to the shop and we easily get twice as much done as just Nick and I by ourselves.

This is Andrew helping Nick with the peddle box

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=141973&d=1612416587

they also got the door latch mechanisms out of the rear doors.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=141974&d=1612416639

We had a good time pushing the control arm bushings out

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=141975&d=1612416665

although, these were really difficult

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=141977&d=1612416754

success!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=141976&d=1612416707

I posted on another thread that I am planning on replacing the old OEM bushings with polyurethane bushings, and I'm thinking about threading in zero fittings for lube maintenance later on.

Mark Eaton

02-04-2021, 12:57 AM

These ball joints put up quit a fight.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=141978&d=1612416810

Luckily I had a fitting on my slide hammer that enabled me to yank them out.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=141979&d=1612416854

My 12 ton Harbor Freight press has been really useful. I modified it and added a pneumatic/hydraulic jack

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=141980&d=1612417891

these have to go

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=141981&d=1612417903

I know nothing about wheel hubs and bearings and my Haynes Subaru manual was no help. It literally said that when the bearings need to be replaced it is very difficult and they recommend taking to a professional. I'm not going to do that. Watching youtube. ordering OEM bearings, we got this. More to come...

roadrashrob

02-04-2021, 08:14 AM

Installing the new bearings is actually fairly easy. From your pictures, you have a bearing puller, so they literally will just "screw" right in. I didn't have a puller, and pressed them in, but learned the hard way that the OEM bearing is NOT completely "together". It can split apart if you don't hold it together, so on one of mine the bottom half fell out as I was putting it on the press, hit the ground, cracked the plastic that holds the bearings and little greasy pins were everywhere! Was much more careful with the second one, and the THIRD one I had to re-order.. :-( Won't happen with the threaded rod going through the bearing and hub.

Santiago

02-04-2021, 03:04 PM

Just did my rear bushings as well - also with the help of a HF press. Not hard to do at all even though this was my first time. I literally lost track of how many times I re-watched YouTube videos on it. I found that writing out my own step-by-step guide helped me: "make a plan, work the plan."

Agreed: you got this! =)

Best,
-j

Mark Eaton

02-07-2021, 01:22 AM

Nick had too much homework to go to the shop today so I went solo to continue my personal battle with the right rear outer CV axle/spindle assembly which has been frozen and resistant to all of our attempts of freeing it up. It has turned into my personal nemesis. Well, I bought the "Big Nasty" as it is called on youtube. I spent about 20 minutes beating on that damn CV axle with the "Big Nasty" and it is now my favorite tool. SUCCESS!!!!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=142150&d=1612678433

I came home and told Nick and we were doing high fives in the kitchen.

Mark Eaton

04-12-2021, 09:01 PM

We managed to get the left rear knuckle powder coated this weekend. This is Super Durable Flat Black powder from the Powder Coat Store. It is a polyester powder and should last well.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=146140&d=1618278565

roadrashrob

04-13-2021, 11:04 AM

Looks good! Smart job powder coating the entire knuckle. Do that on the fronts as well. I taped off where they OEM attachments connected and it was bare metal, only to realize the 818 IRS and IFS brackets don't cover "all" those locations. As bearings and seals were already in, just used POR on the exposed metal.

Mark Eaton

06-28-2021, 07:27 PM

I know we'll never see them but I like how these hubs came out. I think its Black Chrome from Prismatic...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=149990&d=1624925688

Same powder on these front CV axle ends that we will never see, lol

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=149989&d=1624925666

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=149985&d=1624925401

We got the bearings, races, and seals pressed in

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=149987&d=1624925481

Rebuilt the parking brakes, ignore that label...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=149986&d=1624925452

Rear CV, knuckle, hub, rotor sort of assembled

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=149988&d=1624925528

next up will reassemble the brakes

Shawn818c

06-28-2021, 11:32 PM

"Big Nasty" is that from south main auto?? That guy is hilarious! Nice progress!

Mark Eaton

07-02-2021, 09:30 PM

"Big Nasty" is that from south main auto?? That guy is hilarious! Nice progress!

It is!! And its awesome

Mark Eaton

07-23-2021, 04:00 PM

I think these will work

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=151201&d=1627073878

wallace18

07-23-2021, 04:42 PM

Looking good! keep up the great work.:cool:

Mark Eaton

03-06-2022, 11:11 PM

Our floor pans were "oil canning" or "spring boarding" or whatever you call it on both sides. We welded in two 1inch strips of 18 guage on each side. No more "tin canning"!!!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163524&d=1646625597

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163525&d=1646625625

We decided to go with polyurethane bushings because all the "cool guys" on Youtube use them

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163526&d=1646625725

from what I can figure out from these is that squeaking is a problem so we added zerk fittings for lubrication...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163527&d=1646625749

Finally, it felt soooo good to get the front firewall in and start on the from suspension

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163528&d=1646625802

Mark Eaton

07-24-2022, 03:43 PM

This is from end of March.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169898&d=1658678433

Then the transaxle 2WD conversion by the book. I took this photo because that upper bearing race had me a little confused.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169897&d=1658678289

Installed the engine and started on the rear suspension in April. No real surprises.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169899&d=1658678535

Couldn't help putting on the wheels and rolling it around a bit.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169900&d=1658678623

Mark Eaton

07-26-2022, 04:34 PM

The coolant tube cover, dead pedal, cockpit side took some "working" to get a good fit. I have also been pretty liberal with the GE silicone and rivets. I learned from my MK4 build its worth taking the time to get the cockpit sealed up as well as possible.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170055&d=1658869993

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170056&d=1658869993

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170057&d=1658869993

Mark Eaton

07-26-2022, 08:40 PM

The OEM pedal box went in first without much hassle. There was no way the OEM clutch master from my 2006 Impreza was going to fit without a modification. I looked on Rock Auto for a minute but they all looked similar. We had good momentum going in the shop that day and I didn't want to search around all over the internet figuring out a different Clutch master so we forged ahead and altered the chassis. It gave Nick a chance to work on his welding skills...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170079&d=1658885461

The steering column and accelerated pedal were next. In retrospect it would have been easier to put the accelerator pedal before the pedal box.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170080&d=1658885461

Mark Eaton

07-27-2022, 07:35 AM

The fuel tank and lines seem pretty straight forward. We have the non turbo charged engine so we had to add a vent. Not planning on using the fuel vapor canister. Also, I didn't realize that we were supposed to save the OEM fuel filter and bracket so I purchased a filter from Rock Auto and fabricated a bracket.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170104&d=1658925106

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170105&d=1658925106

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170107&d=1658925106

Here is the new vent right out of the Edward playbook! Thanks, Paul!!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170106&d=1658925106

Mark Eaton

08-03-2022, 01:53 PM

We installed the Clutch and Brake lines.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170538&d=1659529956

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170539&d=1659529956

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170239&d=1659106916

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170240&d=1659106916

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170435&d=1659380409

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170537&d=1659529219

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170238&d=1659106916

When we get back from vacation next week we will fill and bleed those. Next up will be the wiring harness diet, etc...

lance corsi

08-03-2022, 05:58 PM

Looks good. If I ever build another kit car, I would prefer to add tabs to rivet my panels to rather than drill holes in my chassis members. Too late now.

Frank818

08-09-2022, 08:00 AM

Wow, what a great place to work on a car!

Mark Eaton

08-30-2022, 10:54 PM

I wouldn't say this part is intimidating but very tedious. I printed up the 213 page factory shop manual from an online source and I have been studying it. It reminds me of neuro anatomy during medical school, everything makes sense, its just alot. Planning to follow Larry's Harness diet method from K3LAG.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171805&d=1661916653

I had him start deluming the ABS system first because we will be deleting it. We tag every wire that he accidentally cuts, tedious ...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171806&d=1661916653

Mark Eaton

08-30-2022, 11:06 PM

Back in July I realized our Chassis came with no upper harness mounting tabs. I contacted FFR, they sent them out and we welded them in! I really love to weld..

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171807&d=1661916653

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171808&d=1661916653

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171809&d=1661916653

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171810&d=1661916741

It was a nice break from that wiring harness. I am on trauma call on Labor day but hoping to under coat the body panels with truck bedliner on Saturday and Sunday, and get these brackets painted. Then back to the wiring harness...

Mark Eaton

11-17-2022, 10:46 PM

I'm feeling a bit better about the wiring harness. I had to take the thing over completely without Nick. I just need to get my head around the whole thing and figure it out. Also, at 16 his eye hand coordination still needs development and I was spending too much time repairing the wires he would sever while stripping the factory loom.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175056&d=1668742726

Using the 200+ page factory manual I carefully labeled all connections before "dieting". These twist on labels I bought have been very useful. Also, as others have posted, Mechie's thread is priceless.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175055&d=1668742689

GoDadGo

11-18-2022, 07:48 AM

All I can say is you all are braver than me.
Love the 818, but it is over my head.
Good Luck & Happy Wiring!;)

autostang

11-18-2022, 02:50 PM

It might be worth adding in an additional fuse block to easily wire new circuits to in the future. I have my car torn apart for some mods right now and am planning to add something to clean up the various wiring I've added over the years (fog lights, footwell lighting, seat heaters, etc). It would be easier to do the first time through! Not a must do by any means, but something to think about.

Mark Eaton

11-18-2022, 11:32 PM

Mark Eaton

11-26-2022, 08:56 PM

Nothing spectacular here, perfect for a 16yo and his dad to install.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175893&d=1669513273

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175058&d=1668743787

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175892&d=1669513234

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175895&d=1669513319

There are two extra 3/8" coolant openings on the bottom of the radiator. I think they are for a AT oil cooler but I have no idea what they went to on our donor which had manual transmission . I just joined them with a hose, hopefully that will be ok...

Rob T

11-27-2022, 06:27 AM

Nice progress. Think about orientation on the hose clamps on the side of the car. Over time, I've had to snug mine up a bit and the orientation makes all the difference when the body is on.

MSumners

11-27-2022, 09:37 AM

Awesome, good to see still plugging away

lance corsi

11-27-2022, 11:11 AM

I’m using the spring steel type. Nothing to tighten. Always snug.

RPGs818SNA

11-27-2022, 11:57 AM

Impressive progress, Mark and team!

Here’s another tip regarding the coolant connections to the side pipes and the engine return. I used the thin spacers inside the short connector hoses to adapt from the corrugated pipes to the side pipes like it appears you did. All five instances developed slow leaks that no amount of tightening the worm clamps or even doubling them would fix.

Upon disassembly, I realized that the thin spacers are covered with a rubberized fabric with an overlapping spiral pattern. That step at the overlaps provides a small path for the coolant to escape. Aggravating!

175909

While your system is dry, you might want to replace the thin spacers with ones that are smooth on the outside, or at least apply some sort of sealant between the hoses. I replaced all of those joints with segments of upper and lower radiator hoses and have no leaks now.

Enjoy your build,
RPG

Mark Eaton

01-03-2023, 09:20 PM

At long last, after just over 2 years we have achieved "first Start"!!!

https://youtu.be/mWXmFuIi7ug

https://youtu.be/Vkup0suPX60

Apparently, filling the cooling system in the 818 is tricky. It appears that the experienced and dedicated 818 builders and race car driver types recommend a "VCP" modification to purge the cooling system of all air. It requires drilling a hole in the top of the engine and placing a brass barb to get rid of the air bubble. A hose then runs from the barb to the expansion tank. I am not ready to take this leap for a couple of reasons. No 1, I have a non turbo engine with no expansion tank. No 2, I don't like brass and really don't like trying to join discrepant metals. My most concerning issue is that I don't have a recovery plan when I screw that up.

What I do have is a 10,000-lb lift and the ability to hang this new born buggy upside down and spank all the air bubble out of her!!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177644&d=1672796857

If this doesn't work I'll screw some kind of "brass barb" into the top of my engine...

lpmagruder

01-04-2023, 02:39 PM

I learned about the VCP mod after I had already had the car mostly assembled and it would have been a huge pain to get access to that part. I ended up doing something like what you're doing there, I alternated lifting the front and rear ~4ft or so and even after that there were still some bubbles. I ended up having to slightly pressurize the system and crack the top engine line and let the air escape. Not the most elegant solution but it worked and I've been driving it a while now with no overheating issues.

Dave 53

01-04-2023, 04:54 PM

I was looking forward to pictures of the car upside down to bleed the air.

I've got a very slight coolant leak that only leaks when it's California cold (40's - not often). Maybe a tablespoon of coolant leaks onto the driver's side floor before everything is warmed up. I'm certain it's the hose clamp that ties the metal side pipe coolant line to the front of the car just behind the front wheel. Why haven't I fixed it? Because it will require taking the door, front fender and side panel off to turn a hose clamp screw half a turn and it only leaks a couple of times a year. Seeing your car without the body reminds me that I wish I paid extra special attention to those hose clamps that are inaccessible with the body on. Someday I'll fix it with a Gates PowerGrip.

Mark Eaton

02-08-2023, 11:51 PM

Two weekends ago we spent all day Saturday dialing in our alignment. Sunday we wrapped the exhaust manifold in titanium and did some "go-karting". On Nick's 8th lap of our 0.5 mile industrial block he was too aggressive with the throttle on a turn went into a 180* spin and went sideways into the curb. The car wound up backwards on top of the curb. Impact was on the left side, left front wheel and tire were irrevocably damaged, the left rear wheel had a chunk missing and knocked into a positive camber situation. Here's a photo...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179603&d=1675914591

The control arms and links did not appear bent. The CV axle definitely wasn't right

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fH3xnJFfLX4

I thought maybe it was bent, but now I don't think so.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179604&d=1675914663

inner CV joint was trashed

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179606&d=1675914709

I think the outer joint is ok

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179605&d=1675914663

My initial emotions were 40% very annoyed and 60% concern for my son and choices I have made as a father. He was in full 5 point racing harness but the MDS was not in a position he could reach, no fire extinguisher and no inertia switch. Nick's response was that of bewilderment. Over the last two weeks I have resolved my personal issues as best I can and am moving on.

Regarding my son, my number one goal at this point is to figure out how to get him professional driving instruction on a rear wheel drive vehicle.

Regarding the 818, I am planning to replace the inner CV joint, redo the alignment and get it back out there. I am wondering if there is any utility to replacing the entire axle despite the fact that it looks ok? The transmission appears to be undamaged.

Hobby Racer

02-09-2023, 07:19 AM

Regarding the 818, I am planning to replace the inner CV joint, redo the alignment and get it back out there. I am wondering if there is any utility to replacing the entire axle despite the fact that it looks ok? The transmission appears to be undamaged.

Mark - I'm glad to here your son is ok, that's the most important thing. As far as the car goes, there is definitely more damage than just the CV joint. For the rear tire to be angled like that the suspension must have been bent in some places. You will need to remove all the trailing arms to look for damage and inspect the frame mounting points for cracks and bent tabs. Also look closely at the hub for cracks and the FFR mounting brackets that connect it to the trailing arms.

Let us know what you find.

idf

02-09-2023, 02:04 PM

Agree that there must be damage to suspension or its pickup points. More importantly though support your plan to get your son professional driving instruction, preferably in a car with similar power and handling characteristics. I enrolled both of my sons in 3-4 day schools which resulted in obtaining SCCA competition licenses. Not inexpensive, but in my mind well worth the cost.

Mark Eaton

02-09-2023, 10:55 PM

Thanks for the input guys. Hopefully this weekend we will have time to take the whole thing apart and inspect all the trailing arms/control arms/links and contact points on the chassis. I'll also look closely at the hub.

idf, should I look up SCCA competition school?

J R Jones

02-09-2023, 11:05 PM

Mark, inspect the upright as well. They can bend.

Elkhart Lake (not your area) has all manner of driver training, four and two wheel. Check local tracks, they try to fill their schedule with all types of events to cover the overhead.
Marque clubs (Porsche, Shelby, Corvette) offer training days at some tracks.
jim

Mark Eaton

02-09-2023, 11:35 PM

idf

02-10-2023, 08:23 AM

The link below contains the SCCA sanctioned schools. One of my sons did the Bondurant (now Radford) school near Phoenix. It was excellent. The other Jim Russell at Mont Tremblant. I had done Jim Russell at Laguna Seca years ago. Both were also excellent. Skip Barber is one of the old stand bys, no longer owned by Skip, but retaining many of the original instructors and several tracks around the country. I don't know anything about the ProDrive school, but it would seem convenient to you. All of the schools offer a variety of programs from teen driving to full competition. I'd go for the latter. Make sure there is skid pad time.

https://www.scca.com/pages/driver-s-school-w-table

Mark Eaton

02-11-2023, 11:37 PM

So we took the whole thing apart and inspected all contact points, all control arms and links, the knuckle, rotor, hub. Here are some boring photos:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179815&d=1676176020

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179816&d=1676176020

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179817&d=1676176020

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179818&d=1676176020

Basically everything looks ok, the rotor and hub spin nicely with no wobble. Nothing looks bent or cracked.

I don't know what else to do except put it all back together when my new inner CV joint arrives.

Hobby Racer

02-12-2023, 07:41 AM

Is the rear rim bent? Something is causing that bad camber angle. Was it like that before?

Ajzride

02-12-2023, 09:38 AM

Is the rear rim bent? Something is causing that bad camber angle. Was it like that before?

Is it possible it's an optical illusion in the picture? The more I stare at it, the more it confuses me.

J R Jones

02-12-2023, 10:30 AM

Is the rear rim bent? Something is causing that bad camber angle. Was it like that before?

I agree with John, however if you rolled the car you would see wobble. With similar thinking in the last year, a track car broke the rear axle flange off due to the nut loosening and metal fatigue. Look for axle flange run-out too.
jim

Mark Eaton

02-12-2023, 01:06 PM

Is the rear rim bent? Something is causing that bad camber angle. Was it like that before?

I took the wheels to Les Schwab. The front rim was cracked, rear has a little chunk out of it but it's OK. i agree, it is bizarre but was not an optical illusion. I'll upload some more videos...

Mark Eaton

02-12-2023, 01:12 PM

I agree with John, however if you rolled the car you would see wobble. With similar thinking in the last year, a track car broke the rear axle flange off due to the nut loosening and metal fatigue. Look for axle flange run-out too.
jim

Thanks, this gives me a reason to purchase a dial indicator!

Mark Eaton

02-12-2023, 01:19 PM

This is a short video of the catywhampous left rear wheel now in the right front and is spinning pretty nicely

https://youtube.com/shorts/IN3dOIXzOVQ

Here is the rotor

https://youtube.com/shorts/XygCJ2Rrfgw

and the hub

https://youtu.be/SN43JpKJ_KY

Hobby Racer

02-12-2023, 04:47 PM

Videos are marked private so they can not be seen :(

J R Jones

02-12-2023, 10:54 PM

Mark, As John states the videos do not play here, but I assume they do not document a fault. In a worse case you may have frame damage and measuring for symmetry is a way to find it.
I suggest establishing the frame centerline based on the main rectangle (behind the cockpit) and similar structure at the front of the cockpit. Drop plumb bobs from the frame centers.
I like lasers and would project a beam aft from the frame references. Measure your lower link frame mounts right and left to the laser centerline.

If they are not the same, you may have twist as well as yaw displacement.
Project a horizontal laser plane under the car. Adjust the frame to be parallel to the beam at the bottom of the main rectangle.
Measure from the beam up to the lower link mounts left and right, again looking for symmetry.
jim

Mark Eaton

02-12-2023, 11:55 PM

Videos are marked private so they can not be seen :(

sorry, I just made them public

Mark Eaton

02-12-2023, 11:56 PM

Mark Eaton

02-13-2023, 10:53 PM

Jim, I did it. I dropped two plumb bobs from the front and rear frame centers of the cockpit. You can see them both lite up by the laser below.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179933&d=1676345929

I measured to the lower link frame mounts to the laser center. The rear rectangle is off by 3/32" and the front is off by 1/8". the interesting thing that in the rear it is shorter on the right side and the front is shorter on the left.:confused:

I then did the horizontal line and found no difference anywhere!

Lastly, I just measured from the roll bar mount back to the opposite further rear part of the chassis. No difference!!

Not sure what to make of all this, I think the frame is probably bent a little. My measuring technique is certainly is not perfect, however, I definitely got that laser spot on those plumb bobs as you can see in the photo.

Rob T

02-14-2023, 07:05 AM

J R Jones

02-14-2023, 10:53 AM

Mark, I am a bit confused by your reference to "rectangle". What I prefer is measuring from the inner link rod pivot bosses to the laser line. Measure from the holes not tubing.
Given interfering parts, you may have to drop plumb lines from the pivots to get straight measurements to the centerline.

Also look for the weak links in the chain of parts:
The FFR adapter at the top of the upright could be bent.
The through bolt at the lower pivot of the upright could be bent.
jim

J R Jones

02-14-2023, 11:04 AM

I am curious, as we have no "before" and "after", what would we expect the tolerance to be on a fabricated frame like this? What is our likely measurement error, even with the laser technique? This is a great technical challenge for a home shop and I am trying to learn....

The design document of an assembly like the frame has datum points like the centerline for reference.
Every data point is referenced to the datum and has a priority. Some are considered "critical" like suspension mounts. With cost and quality in mind, some tolerances like body mounts, are loose. Critical data points are identified on the document for "quality control" to pay particular attention too. If that happens..... I would consider plus or minus 0.020 for the mounts in question here but only FFR knows.
jim

Just puttering

02-14-2023, 01:27 PM

https://www.scca.com/pages/street-survival

Here is a school for young adults. If it’s not full you have one in April in Portland.

Shawn818c

02-14-2023, 06:17 PM

Highly unlikely the frame was square to begin with.

Mark Eaton

02-18-2023, 09:26 AM

I purchased a left front CV axle for a 2006 Impreza from Rock Auto because that was our donor car. I removed the inner CV joint but the CV joint tripod bearing shown below doesn't fit on the axle in the 818. See photo below, the lower bearing was the damaged one.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180112&d=1676729757

Unfortunately, CV axles and joints are vehicle specific. I can't figure out how to order a joint for the axle I have and as far as I know there is no OEM part for a FFR 818C. My kit came with two spare axles without joints.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180111&d=1676729757

The 80033 is the "fully assembled" axle from FFR which I am using. FFR tells me those are not currently available for purchase. The 80237 axles came with the kit and do not have joints.

Does anybody have any idea what OEM part I need for my CV joint for either of these axles?

Thanks,

mark

Hobby Racer

02-18-2023, 09:56 AM

Mark Eaton

02-18-2023, 10:01 AM

Unfortunately most aftermarket CV joints are NOT the same and not compatible with the OEM ones. They have the same spline configuration but not the same tri-lobe setup as you have found out. I had to go to my local NAPA store and physically look through ever Subaru Impreza CV joint to find one that was rebuilt using the green OEM CV cup and therefore had the correct tri-lobe.

Wow, that sounds difficult. It's hard to believe there is not an after market CV axle that fits. They look so similar...

Mark Eaton

02-18-2023, 10:14 AM

Unfortunately most aftermarket CV joints are NOT the same and not compatible with the OEM ones. They have the same spline configuration but not the same tri-lobe setup as you have found out. I had to go to my local NAPA store and physically look through ever Subaru Impreza CV joint to find one that was rebuilt using the green OEM CV cup and therefore had the correct tri-lobe.

So, if I get a true Subaru OEM inner CV joint it should fit? Or is that 80033 axle not a Subaru OEM axle? I ask because the 80033 and two spare 80237 axles have obvious different spline sizes.

J R Jones

02-18-2023, 11:50 AM

The current business model for auto parts is routine maintenance parts, OEM application catalogues and order your parts. OEM dealers are worse. Specifications and dimensions are hard to find for this kind of shopping.
Creative applications like this are a challenge and without FFR you are on your own. Hobby found an convenient solution with a NAPA dealer stocking inventory and was willing to go out of his routine-way.

In a similar custom driveshaft project I had to match a Dana 44 axle to a Lexus 5 speed manual transmission. My local driveshaft shop was willing to order his best guess yoke for a fitment check...it worked.
I suggest looking for a similar axle/driveshaft shop, take your parts with you. Alternatively a Subaru performance shop may understand what you need.
jim

lance corsi

02-18-2023, 12:31 PM

Maybe contact the good folks at the Driveshaft Shop?

Hobby Racer

02-18-2023, 01:48 PM

So, if I get a true Subaru OEM inner CV joint it should fit? Or is that 80033 axle not a Subaru OEM axle? I ask because the 80033 and two spare 80237 axles have obvious different spline sizes.

The axle is a custom one ordered by FFR as it mates the Subaru front inner and the rear outer CV's together on a common shaft. The shaft is not important, it's the splines, tri-lobe, and outer CV cup that are. If you have a Subaru tri-lobe, you need a Subaru cup. Conversely aftermarket units sometimes use re-manufactured Subaru parts and sometimes do not, that's why it's hard to mix and match.

The splines on the FFR shaft are sized for OEM Subaru tri-lobes so if you can't find one at a parts store you may need to order one from Subaru. It will be pricey if you get it from the dealer.

blomb11

02-18-2023, 06:25 PM

I learned this the hard way too from my donor parts. I went to my local Subaru wrecker to buy front and rear OEM axles to scavenge for parts rather than buying new axles from Subaru. If you have a wrecker nearby check them too.

J R Jones

02-19-2023, 01:52 PM

The axle is a custom one ordered by FFR as it mates the Subaru front inner and the rear outer CV's together on a common shaft. The shaft is not important, it's the splines, tri-lobe, and outer CV cup that are. If you have a Subaru tri-lobe, you need a Subaru cup. Conversely aftermarket units sometimes use re-manufactured Subaru parts and sometimes do not, that's why it's hard to mix and match.

The splines on the FFR shaft are sized for OEM Subaru tri-lobes so if you can't find one at a parts store you may need to order one from Subaru. It will be pricey if you get it from the dealer.

John, I have re-engineering of rear axles in my future, so I am not asking for a friend.
I assume that the OEM front axle assembly is more robust that the OEM rear axle assembly.
FFR used the inner parts of front axle and the outer parts of the rear axle creating a b-terd and sourcing issues like Mark's.
Is it physically possible (with axle bearing & hub?) to run all front axle components through the upright to the wheel hub?
It leads me to speculate about the choice to not run front uprights in the rear, eliminating this mix-complexity.
jim

aquillen

02-19-2023, 03:37 PM

No real reason to expect this info can help you - because you likely will need to do face to face tests at NAPA or the scrap yards - but FWIW below - at least you get some measurements to think about...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?22217-Axle-shaft-measurements-2-of-versions&highlight=80237

Bob_n_Cincy

02-19-2023, 08:23 PM

I assume that the OEM front axle assembly is more robust that the OEM rear axle assembly.

Jim,
The OEM front and rear axle are under the same load in the wrx and use equivalent strength axles and hubs.
The problem with the 818 is now all the torque goes through 2 wheels and not 4.
I believe the STI version 2006 and later had stronger axles and hubs. A few people have upgraded to sti rear hubs.
I had 2 failures as a result of autocross launches. Here are pictures.

180204 180205

Hobby Racer

02-19-2023, 09:30 PM

John, I have re-engineering of rear axles in my future, so I am not asking for a friend.
I assume that the OEM front axle assembly is more robust that the OEM rear axle assembly.
FFR used the inner parts of front axle and the outer parts of the rear axle creating a b-terd and sourcing issues like Mark's.
Is it physically possible (with axle bearing & hub?) to run all front axle components through the upright to the wheel hub?
It leads me to speculate about the choice to not run front uprights in the rear, eliminating this mix-complexity.
jim

The front uprights are very different than the rears. The need to accommodate turning being the biggest factor in their differences. It would be quite the challenge to run front uprights and hubs in the rear. Much easier to find the right mating parts for the CV joints. If axle strength is a concern the Drive Shaft Shop makes very stout and expensive axles for the 818.

J R Jones

02-19-2023, 10:19 PM

The front uprights are very different than the rears. The need to accommodate turning being the biggest factor in their differences. It would be quite the challenge to run front uprights and hubs in the rear. Much easier to find the right mating parts for the CV joints. If axle strength is a concern the Drive Shaft Shop makes very stout and expensive axles for the 818.

John, Bob,
I was not clear in my (and Mark's) concern for serviceability based on his original post, not finding replacement parts.
Reviewing my 2014 assembly manual it appears the 818 axle is FFR unique because of length?
The outer CV is the donor rear.
The inner CV is the donor front.
Service parts should follow that format, so what is the problem? Mark?

I assume Subaru could, but does not use a common CV for all axle locations (8). (economy of scale?
Some CVs must be cheaper than others, and not as robust, which brings me back to the speculation that the front axle ASSEMBLY is more robust than the rear axle ASSEMBLY.
So then why does FFR not use the most robust parts?
Bob's comment suggests the FFR axle is the weak link.

The front upright could be used in the rear with control arms and a lateral (anti)steer link (and bump steer) but not with drag links. I kinda prefer that.
jim

Bob_n_Cincy

02-20-2023, 01:15 AM

Adapting a front knuckle for use in the rear of the 818 would be tricky.
The 818 front has a coil over shock blocking the axle.
Lance used a corvette hub for his rear suspension.

180238

Hobby Racer

02-20-2023, 07:50 AM

John, Bob,
I was not clear in my (and Mark's) concern for serviceability based on his original post, not finding replacement parts.
Reviewing my 2014 assembly manual it appears the 818 axle is FFR unique because of length?
The outer CV is the donor rear.
The inner CV is the donor front.
Service parts should follow that format, so what is the problem? Mark?

Let me see if I can explain this better. The problem is that axle re-manufactures are free to use any shaft having any internal spline count so long as the tri-lobe matches because all they are concerned with is that the overall length of the entire axle assembly (CV joints + shafts) are close to the OEM length and that the external splines on the CV joints match both the transmission and hub. They often times use non OEM shafts, tri-lobes and CV cups when making re-manufactured axle assemblies.

The problem is that we as builders tear them down to get just the parts we need like the CV cup and tri-lobe and then try to mate them up to our custom FFR shafts to make our own custom axle assembly. If we are not starting with complete front and rear axle sets from Subaru, there is no guarantee that the internal bits will fit together.

I assume Subaru could, but does not use a common CV for all axle locations (8). (economy of scale?

Correct, the front outer and rear outer CV's are not the same.

Some CVs must be cheaper than others, and not as robust, which brings me back to the speculation that the front axle ASSEMBLY is more robust than the rear axle ASSEMBLY.
So then why does FFR not use the most robust parts?
Bob's comment suggests the FFR axle is the weak link.

The front upright could be used in the rear with control arms and a lateral (anti)steer link (and bump steer) but not with drag links. I kinda prefer that.
jim

Remember, FFR designed this kit to be built from a single donor car, therefore there are only one set of front hubs to work with. In FFR's defense, it's not always what will work best, but what will work given the product specifications and cost envelope.

J R Jones

02-20-2023, 10:01 AM

Adapting a front knuckle for use in the rear of the 818 would be tricky.
The 818 front has a coil over shock blocking the axle.
Lance used a corvette hub for his rear suspension.

180238

Bob, John, Mark, Thanks for your patience and insight.

Bob, I see that your photos show two distinct failures, the axle and the stub-axle which is clearly a load failure.
Lance mentioned Corvette suspension, in our discussion of front; obviously both. I am familiar with C4 suspension, I am building a Studebaker Avanti on my 102in WB frame with C4 suspensions and an LS/six speed.
Eventually I will find out why the Subaru OEM front axle assembly does not fit in the rear upright. Could it just be the (ball) bearing ID & OD?

John, Mark, I can see the problem servicing this custom axle assembly, it appears individual CVs are not available. I found Axles on the Subaru web page under "Suspensions and Brakes" but no trilobe parts.
I assume FFR made axle splines to fit each donor. Mixing donors adds to potential fitment issues. As you and Art have posted, one has to empirically match splines to the axle.

Mark's experience is influencing my build. With a Honda J series V6 & six speed, I am encouraged to replace the other Subaru bits with Honda. (back to the front upright concept).
jim

lance corsi

02-20-2023, 12:48 PM

J R Jones

02-20-2023, 03:28 PM

I used C-4 components for my car. Had to do a little cad work to place the front A-arms, on the rear I stayed with a trailing arm multiple link suspension. Again, I had to change shock mount points, add upper control arm and lower control arm, and a toe link on each side. I’m not running a sway bar due to packaging.

I built a truss frame at 102 in WB. I use the front crossmember, composite spring and stock shock mount.
I also used the rear stub, with all stock mounts and parts. I do not want serviceability or durability issues.
My engine mounts aft of Corvette proximity to the front. I thought about C5, but this is easier.
jim

180257

aquillen

02-20-2023, 04:53 PM

Regarding the axle spline/dia problems - note that when ordering an 818 from FFR they required you specify the donor you were going to use. Because Mark shows axles with FFR part numbers, and from my post of FFR part numbers it is clear that FFR had at least 3 different axles they might supply, depending on the expected donor. And we all know that the aftermarket also provided rebuilt axle/hubs with their own format of splne setups.

Add all this up and we are left with a lot of mix or match possibilities, no fault of any one source. Subaru definitely had multiple versions of axles over time - I had at least three versions end up in my scraps pile here during my project - and some were constructed way beefier than others.

During my waiting period of several months in 2016 for my kit to arrive, I read every build log posted here. There were several run-ins between builders and their axle/hub combinations that did not fit. Guys spent time getting and trying different parts from NAPA, RockAuto, the scrappers and FFR. I was surprised it took me only one try with FFR to get a different axle and it fit my 2008-2009 Legacy hub set which was JDM parts imported off a Japan sourced donor!

...another FWIW ...
You can also find WEB blab not related to FFR/818 at all, where people muse and guess about the axles and drive train parts in the OEM engineered drive train maybe being less than as strong as WE might want in a rear only drive setup. Translating those opinions suggests to me that with all wheel drive, the donor systems would have shared the torque amongst the axles so no single axle had as much stress as we might put on them in the 1/2 as many parts = twice the torque (sort of) in the 818. But then again, the newer Subarus (not sure where this happens at in model years) have more sophisticated power train management - which suggests to me at least - for such newer systems, a power train computer just might put a lot of torque out on one, two or three rather than all four wheels for some road condition... i.e. newer donors might have beefier parts.

Now in my case, running a '98 manual transaxle on the H6 3.0 motor, which was almost never sold world wide with a manual, (stories exist some Aussies got manuals if I have it right), I consider my car at high risk of snapping an FFR axle the first time I slip my foot sideways off that clutch pedal. I suspect getting axles from FFR is about as likely as ordering a new 818 kit today and getting in a week or two... The WEB blab on the 3.0 also presumes the reason the 3.0 wasn't shipped with a manual during it's early years (at the least) was the transaxle would not hold up to the torque. Why a turbo 4 wouldn't tear up the transaxle leaves one to wonder of course, although I think the 6 could dump more torque from an instantaneous clutch dump than the 4, even if at continuous output ratings the torques were similar.

Figuring out the mindset of any vehicle OEM regarding parts is pretty much impossible today - unless you are an insider on the project in question. We really are relegated to trial and error, at best sharing what we know with each other, and probably going to the aftermarket axle guys mentioned above.

Mark Eaton

02-20-2023, 05:04 PM

My donor was a 2006 NA Impreza. Not sure if I order that inner CV joint it will fit the 80033 or 80237 hubs. I think the only thing I need at this point is that Tripod bearing that fits the 80033 axle.

Mark Eaton

04-02-2023, 12:45 PM

Regarding our damaged CV axle I just sent my fourth CV axle back because the inner spline size was wrong. Good news is that I am learning a little more each time. I am at the point now of getting them from Salvage yards. Our local yards have plenty of Outbacks but not impreza like our donor.

We have begun fabricating an extra rear fire wall and side panels and powder coating them. Also, I found this sound deadening insulation I really like from Rockville Audio...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182422&d=1680456803

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182423&d=1680456803

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182425&d=1680457334

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182424&d=1680456803

Mark Eaton

04-02-2023, 12:47 PM

We also made this handy access port over the fuel sender/pump unit. The entire firewall piece will be removable so I don't know how useful this will be but I couldn't help myself.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182420&d=1680456803

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182421&d=1680456803

FFRWRX

04-02-2023, 02:10 PM

We also made this handy access port over the fuel sender/pump unit. The entire firewall piece will be removable so I don't know how useful this will be but I couldn't help myself.

Pretty sure you will never have to use that access port. But if you didn't add it in, then you would certainly need it at some point. ;)

Rick

Ajzride

04-02-2023, 08:10 PM

I like that powder coat color, do you have a code or link?

Mark Eaton

04-02-2023, 09:40 PM

It is this Eastwood HotCoat Flame Red Translucent Powder Coat

https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-hotcoat-flame-red-translucent-powder-59153.html

Mark Eaton

05-08-2023, 09:51 PM

Here it is:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184253&d=1683598933

Getting to this point has been a real pain in the neck. The above solution involves the 80237 Axle which came with my kit but I wasn't expecting to use, an outer CV joint from a "remanufactured" rear Axle from Rock Auto for my 2006 Impreza donor and front inner CV joint from a company called Febest. I got that part on Amazon, https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DMA2PWG?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

All in all I went through 8 CV axles from rock auto, Napa, my local salvage yard. My local Salvage yard has a 2006 Impreza in Eugene so they had to send the axle down. Unfortunately they kept sending the front and I needed the rear. so painful...

I have become really good at taking apart CV Axles and reassembling them. So, got the new axle in and it looks good. We messed with the alignment a bit, feeling positive

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184256&d=1683598933

and the engine won't start. Ugh,

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184255&d=1683598933

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184254&d=1683598933

this gave me heartburn, talked to some gearhead buddies, found two loose grounds, fixed them, and she started!!

Go karted 1.5 miles and she is stalling, acting like over heating. the right side coolant tube is hot, the left is ICE cold. I think I need to replace the thermostat.

that's where we are right now.

J R Jones

05-09-2023, 02:33 PM

Mark, After the "incident" you mentioned the extraordinary wheel camber and potentially frame damage at the suspension mounts.
Have you identified alignment affiliated damage or is the wheel camber OK?
jim

Mark Eaton

05-09-2023, 09:32 PM

J R Jones

05-10-2023, 10:35 AM

Jim,

Nick and I spent a couple hours reworking the alignment last Saturday and it seems to be ok. The engine definitely got knocked to the right side about 1/8" but we have good camber and toe and castor on the front wheels. I figure we'll go kart another 50 miles or so and check everything again.

Mark, Your speculation on 1/8 in displacement suggests that the vehicle "thrust angle" may be off. Thrust angle evaluates if the rear axle follows the front axle properly through measurement. Your laser experience may help you measure this, or get a professional.

https://www.tirereview.com/alignment-specs-thrust-angle-and-setback/#:~:text=The%20thrust%20angle%20is%20an,the%20vehi cle%20is%20the%20same.

https://www.capitalone.com/cars/learn/managing-your-money-wisely/twowheel-vs-fourwheel-alignment-whats-the-difference/1983

jim

Mark Eaton

05-14-2023, 03:35 PM

I have no movement of coolant through the pipes and she overheats at about 2 miles of easy driving. I replaced the thermostat hoping that was the problem but I think the real issue is that I haven't done a modification to purge air from the system. I have been reluctant to do the "mod" for this which many have mentioned and recommend, I guess because its not mentioned in the build manual. I was hoping "tipping" the car up and down to get the bubbles out would to the trick but no luck. So, I could use some help here. I guess I need to drill and tap a 1/8 NPT hole in the coolant outlet as shown? and screw in a brass barb?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184499&d=1684095180

A hose should go from the brass barb to the coolant expansion tank which my NA donor didn't have. So, my question is should I buy a OEM coolant expansion tank(for the turbo models) and hook it up? Or can I run that hose to the existing fore expansion tank which is shown here.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184500&d=1684095201

Can I just "T" into that hose?

I did install a "fill kit" as recommended in the build manual. Not sure if there's an option to use this to help purge?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184501&d=1684095216

Thanks for the help!

Bicyclops

05-14-2023, 06:03 PM

What worked for me was a 137 kPa cap on the radiator and a 108 kPa cap on the expansion tank. I capped the tube next to the radiator cap and ran a 5/16" hose all the way back to the expansion tank from the radiator breather pipe that was on the right side top of the rad. At the front of the engine I used something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Radiator-Attachment-Adapter-Coolant-Temperature/dp/B09V73MDP4/ref=sr_1_9?crid=2822XUYRV1RLI&keywords=radiator+temp+tee&qid=1684104251&sprefix=radiator+temp+tee%2Caps%2C178&sr=8-9

in lieu of the Wayne mod. I ran a hose from that to the expansion tank with a tee in it to pick up the hose coming from the radiator. The plastic overflow tank I put in the engine bay and ran the overflow from the expansion tank to in the top and down to the bottom so it will suck the coolant back into the ex. tank as it cools.

When I filled it all, I put the back of the car up on jackstands so the filler neck of the expansion tank was the highest point after filling the radiator and the side pipes as much as possible level on the floor. I used one of those filler funnels you can also get on Amazon. It all worked out really well. Thanks for ideas MRG Motorsports and others. I did throw a code for coolant sensor voltage high, but that went away after 50 miles or so. I think that was because I also put in a heater under the dash and it took a while to run the bubbles out. It always runs right in the middle of the temp gauge. I got the fan to come on for about 15 seconds after idling for 22 minutes and the front coolant pipes get hot in just a few minutes.

Reading your post again, yeah, I think you're gonna need an expansion tank to make it work right. The key I think is the high pressure cap up front and the lower pressure cap at the rear tank. Make any expansion and bubbles happen back there instead of at the front which is lower.

Ed

Mark Eaton

05-14-2023, 10:32 PM

Bicyclops

05-14-2023, 10:55 PM

Do without it then. If you fill the radiator with the car level or even with the front raised some and keep filling it until the side pipes are as full as you can get them, cap it and then lift the rear, and you shouldn't have any air in the rad. With an expansion tank the highest point, fill it until it bubbles no more and then start it up and keep filling it. With a bleed at the hot water exit from the engine (high point of the hot side), you should be able to get it all. The expansion tank is going to need a drain back to the water pump. The NA water pump might not have a fitting for that and you might have to tee into the "oil cooler" return or the heater loop return.

https://www.subaruparts.com/v-2002-subaru-impreza--wrx--2-0l-h4-gas/cooling-system--radiator-and-components
There's the expansion tank. It shows 2 radiator caps, #13. The round one is for the rad and the one with ears is for the expansion tank.

Ed

Ajzride

05-15-2023, 07:12 AM

These cars are brutal to bleed the cooling system on. At first I tried lifting the front end (I used an engine hoist and had it 60" off the ground), but that didn't work. Next I bought a vacuum fill system that is supposed to put the entire system under a vacuum and suck the coolant in, but that didn't work either. Finally I took Bob's advice and built a coolant bleeding loop in the car.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?31639-Aj-s-818S-in-Houston&p=412847&viewfull=1#post412847

Mark Eaton

05-24-2023, 10:39 PM

I ordered an after market coolant expansion tank and some other parts to hopefully fix my coolant-bleeding/burping problem. I think I may have a way to add another 5/16" blowoff hose to the radiator like on the turbo models. I figure now is the time to install my heater and route my heater hoses. Here is my heater. I completely copied TheHelixx's thread on this...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184885&d=1684985369

Here are the hose mock-ups

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184882&d=1684984984

Initially I was going to run the hoses over the engine like this:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184883&d=1684984984

But I'm thinking keeping them low to avoid air trapping and overheat problems is advisable. Like this???

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184884&d=1684984984

If anybody has any nifty ideas for the best way to route these hoses feel free to chime in.

Ajzride

05-25-2023, 08:08 AM

Mine are run like the second picture. Running them high will definitely make it harder to bleed the system.

Which heater core are you going to be running? I found that the stock water pump didn't make enough head at idle to push water through my Restomod Air unit to bleed it until I revved it up to about 1500RPM.

Mark Eaton

05-25-2023, 09:58 PM

Which heater core are you going to be running? .

Vintage Air Gen-II Heaters 506101

I bought it from Summit

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/VTA-506101

Mark Eaton

06-11-2023, 10:03 PM

So, I drilled and tapped for the "de-gas" burp valve on the coolant outlet of the engine. It is a 1/8 -27 NPT hose barb and ran the 5/16" hose up to an aftermarket coolant expansion tank I got on eBay.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185691&d=1686536178

I also got the 137kPA OEM radiator cap, and an adaptor to run a second "de-gas" burp hose from the radiator to the coolant expansion tank like the turbo models already have.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185693&d=1686536178

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185690&d=1686536178

On the lower 1/2" outlet on the coolant expansion tank I ran a 1/2" to the return line on the heater hoses (blue)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185692&d=1686536178

This set up seems to work after 10 miles. coolant was coming out of the 5/16" outlet next to the cap so I ran a hose from that to the overflow tank I had left over from my mk4 build (lower yellow arrow)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185694&d=1686536178

I have not drilled a hole in the thermostat. After another 10 miles I don't seem to have any coolant leaks and no overheating!

I bought an aftermarket

lance corsi

06-12-2023, 11:16 AM

Mark, I have a tri-lobed cv joint if you want it. Pay shipping from Cincinnati?

RPGs818SNA

06-12-2023, 11:52 AM

Sorry for the late chime in on the heater hose routing, Mark. The forward 35" or so of the side body piece fits tight against the side frame starting about 5 inches above the bottom of the frame. You may want to run the red and black hoses below or beside the coolant pipe. Way to go on getting the cooling working and not leaking!
RPG

Mark Eaton

06-13-2023, 12:40 AM

Mark, I have a tri-lobed cv joint if you want it. Pay shipping from Cincinnati?

I'll take it, send me a PM?

Mark Eaton

06-18-2023, 08:44 PM

So, we have driven another 30+ miles and our cooling system seems to be working, fingers crossed !!

We had upgraded to the fancy FFR shifter with our original order. I really like the way it looks. I went ahead and hooked it up as per the manual but had a negative attitude about the function of the 270* turns the cables need to make, and sure enough we weren't happy with the performance. There are multiple posts/threads on this issue. SO, we turned the shifter around and measured lengths. Multiple skilled and advanced builders have posted that they used an 84" push-pull cable but I measured and that didn't seem to pencil out...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185697&d=1686541491

With the shifter in a good position for use here are our measurements.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185698&d=1686541491

Here is what I wound up with

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185700&d=1686541491

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185699&d=1686541491

It works great!

Here is a link to my Youtube video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDqTAwI7AmY

Santiago

06-28-2023, 10:50 AM

We had upgraded to the fancy FFR shifter with our original order. I really like the way it looks.

Thanks for this Mark. Timely. I was looking at doing the same thing for the same reasons. At least this is a good heads up that some variation in length is to be expected. Not like we're building custom cars here or anything... =)

Personally, I think the FFR shifter looks even better in the reversed orientation. Nice work.

Mark Eaton

10-06-2023, 10:21 PM

My Brother in-law came into town a few weeks ago and we worked on the Exhaust. We welded in this Magnaflow muffler I got from Summit.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=190889&d=1696648276

Sounds great!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2ThRtHXZcQ

Nick and I wrapped it with titanium wrap last weekend.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=190890&d=1696648276

Mark Eaton

10-09-2023, 10:13 PM

With help from forum members I got the headlights, DRL, and blinkers functioning. Here's a video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkBU8YpLgVU

The Hella headlights wouldn't fit into these buckets so I did this modification which I think originated from Aquillen???

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=191001&d=1696906377

I made my own studs and epoxied them in place.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=191005&d=1696907007

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=191006&d=1696907007

I reinforced the bucket with extra brackets and am very happy with it overall.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=191002&d=1696906377

finally, installed studs on the inner fenders to hold the headlight assembly and allow easy removal. We epoxied one side and used High Strength filler on the other. Nick did all this work.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=191004&d=1696906377

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=191003&d=1696906377

My opinion is that the 3M filler is easier to work with and holds well. I used it on the MK4 and after over 5000 miles no problems

Mark Eaton

01-09-2024, 07:45 PM

Over the break Nick and I got in some good wrenching time. We noticed a leak in these lines. cold weather. I figured it was rigged enough and time for more permanent solution

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194284&d=1704846898

Here are the Gates PowerGrip hose clamps

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194285&d=1704846898

MSumners

01-09-2024, 08:51 PM

Nice work. Great to see build is still going and getting in time with your son.

Mark Eaton

01-10-2024, 09:00 PM

Thanks Mike, Yeah we're still at it. Nick is a senior and more engaged in the build than ever. I am determined to finish this thing before he graduates. Including paint. My MK4 still isn't painted.:rolleyes:

Nick wanted to use this photo for his senior photo. I told him he needs to put on a tie. At least he managed to cut his hair, sort of, lol...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194286&d=1704847137

Mark Eaton

01-14-2024, 11:48 PM

An outstanding sound system is an absolute must in all of my vehicles.

I found a great deal at Crutchfield on this head unit with a back up camera.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194342&d=1705029242

I also got a powered subwoofer which will fit behind the passenger seat.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194303&d=1704939269

I'm using the speakers from the donor which were after market upgrades and seem to be in good condition. If they don't perform I will upgrade further.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194302&d=1704939269

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194304&d=1704939269

I fabricated a bracket for the head unit. It is a little intrusive on the passenger side but oh well...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194534&d=1705293459

Mark Eaton

02-19-2024, 01:35 PM

Nick and I have been chipping away at the body work for a while. i have enjoyed it because he can come in on days I'm not there and get work done.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194305&d=1704939837

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195794&d=1708367311

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195795&d=1708367398

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195791&d=1708367215

It's coming together better than I thought it would. I need to figure out some sort of "tab under the panels system" to close these gaps.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195792&d=1708367215

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195793&d=1708367215

Mark Eaton

02-19-2024, 01:41 PM

For time sake I don't want to go crazy with the doors. Just need them functional with functioning windows. However, I am thinking of plugging in to the actuators

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195796&d=1708367935

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195797&d=1708367935

Santiago

02-26-2024, 11:29 AM

Have you considered camloc fittings as a "tab under the panels" solution?

I'm a huge fan of them. They are not cheap, but they are small and man do they hold strong (the 2600 & 2700 series are fine for most applications, but if you need a really strong hold the 4002 series are very robust). If you aren't familiar with them, it can take a bit of time to get a sense of how they work. You also need either (a) a wide range of stud sizes, or (b) pretty precise measurement of your combined panel thickness.

Mark Eaton

03-03-2024, 12:34 AM

Have you considered camloc fittings as a "tab under the panels" solution?

I have not but you have my interest. Is there a thread that used them I can look at?

Mark Eaton

03-03-2024, 12:46 AM

It seems to me the critical part of the door has to do with the frame alignment being as accurate as possible. The door skin appears to be a wobbly amorphous exostructure which needs to be one paint stick away from the body. I figured I would try to set up the door frame to be 2 paint sticks from the body and as even as possible.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196373&d=1709443531

I had to raise the top a little and pull it forward slightly on the driver side.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196375&d=1709443531

Not sure yet how it will affect the interaction with the fenders

Bob_n_Cincy

03-03-2024, 02:10 AM

MG]

Not sure yet how it will affect the interaction with the fenders

It is important that you install fenders and hood before the doors.
I use a straight edge about half way up my door to verify flushness with side sail and fender.
Notice that the exposed door sill get wider toward the front of the door.
Click on images below to enlarge.

196384 196385

Mark Eaton

03-03-2024, 11:20 AM

It is important that you install fenders and hood before the doors.
I use a straight edge about half way up my door to verify flushness with side sail and fender.

thanks for the tip, I had to take the fenders off to get the height and length of the top correct. I'm trying hard not to cut anything away and make it all fit by "massaging" it together.

Fman

03-03-2024, 11:23 AM

Fun to watch you and your sons project, what a great experience for him. Looking forward to seeing it all painted up! Will this be his daily driver? What color are you going with?

lance corsi

03-03-2024, 02:32 PM

McCam, I spent at least 40 hrs on each door getting the windows operating to my satisfaction. They’re a real fiasco. Body fitment was no picnic either. I think most probably give up on having properly operating windows. It’s near impossible to get the car water tight. Good luck with yours.

Mark Eaton

03-03-2024, 04:49 PM

Fun to watch you and your sons project, what a great experience for him. Looking forward to seeing it all painted up! Will this be his daily driver? What color are you going with?

Thanks Fman, I appreciate your comments! Definitely not his daily driver, I just don't think it will be waterproof or very reliable. This project has been about the journey and not the end result. We have had countless hours together over the last few years working away on it. If it was to blow up tomorrow it was easily worth the 18 odd thousand I have spent on it because it has been such a positive experience in both of our lives.

Nick has decided to go to college in New Mexico next fall, my alma mater. When he comes to visit us for breaks he can toodle around town in it, or autocross. He and I also have this goal of some day taking it to the Oregon Raceway and racing like a real race car!

Right now we are planning on Anthracite Gray Metallic with a flat matte satin finish.

Mark Eaton

03-27-2024, 08:28 AM

So, we have the front end body fitted about as well as we can at this point. There is still some gaposis at the fender/A-pillar/door/hood interface but we will live with it for now. Driver side seems to have come together better than the passenger side.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=197297&d=1711402401

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=197296&d=1711402401

The doors open and close nicely and I think the gaps are ok. I did use the slotted spring pin technique someone had recommended which will help when removing the doors multiple times.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=197362&d=1711545585

Mark Eaton

03-27-2024, 08:33 AM

Scott Meyer

03-27-2024, 09:12 AM

Mark,
We are using these wheels and the recommended tires, and they do not rub. They have the proper offset versus the OEM wheels, so as long as you have tucked away the coolant hoses, and followed the "rough alignment specs" for the UCA's it should be fine. Now...we are having rubbing problems with the left rear tire after final assembly...and paint. Still working on that one.

Hobby Racer

03-28-2024, 08:55 AM

I have the FFR upgrade wheels and am wondering if anybody used something different for tire size than the FFR recommended, 215/40/17 Front and
255/35/18 Rear . I have a feeling that front tire is going to rub. The OEM wheels and tires were rubbing while we were go-karting...

The fronts are particularly difficult as you need a relatively short tire < 24" tall. The rears are much more forgiving. I have used 215/40/17's and 225/40/17 Hoosier's on the front with no rubbing. On the rear I have used all the way up to 275/35/18's, although those are very tight!

No matter what tires you run you will need to use steering restrictors to limit the total lock to lock travel as the tire will rub on the inside splash shield at the limits of travel if not.

Mark Eaton

03-28-2024, 10:20 AM

Thanks for the advice guys, I'll start looking for tires and steering rack restriction device.

Dave 53

03-28-2024, 12:11 PM

These are track car observations that probably don't apply to a street driven car. Not sure where an autocross car fits in.

I have 215 in front with no rubbing issues other than lock to lock. I don't have rack spacers. I just know how far I can turn the wheel. The only time I get understeer is in the rain, so I see no reason to go wider because I try to avoid the rain in my open top car.

I have 255 in rear. With the FFR wheels, I needed 10mm of spacers to keep them from rubbing the lower control arms. I have Powerflex Black bushings. Rubbing was worst with the OEM bushings. I can't see going any wider without changing out the control arms. While I don't think wider front tries would improve the car's balance, I do thing wider rears would. Maybe someday I'll change out the control arms. Mostly because then I could try out some slicks that don't come in 255 sizes.

A note on using wheel spacers - make sure you can get at least 9.5 turns on the lug nuts.

A note on FFR wheels - they are a visual upgrade over OEM Subaru wheels, but not as strong. I have demoted my FFR wheels to street use only because while they still balance, they are easily bent pounding track curbs. A car destined for more than an occasional "gentle" track day needs wheels better suited for the track.

Mark Eaton

03-29-2024, 08:17 AM

I've decided to take my best shot at power window modifications and replicate what FFRWRX did. Here's my initial mock up.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=197435&d=1711717780

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=197436&d=1711717780

I'm making these out of 1-2/2" x 3/4" metal stick, I think its .08" thickness.

I have a ways to go...

FFRWRX

03-29-2024, 08:56 AM

It is a lot of work making the window frames, but to me at least, worth it. It makes for very nicely working windows that will seal and are fully supported anywhere along the travel. It will also make you realize just how bad the window design is. You can't have a window that goes up and down in tracks that has a different curve on the front and back. So even the added tracks are a bit of a compromise design.

Rick

Dave 53

03-29-2024, 12:58 PM

I've decided to take my best shot at power window modifications and replicate what FFRWRX did. Here's my initial mock up.

I'm making these out of 1-2/2" x 3/4" metal stick, I think its .08" thickness.

I have a ways to go...

Maybe look into a "tube roller". I used one to make this bike and it seems like it would work for your window frame project.

197439

lance corsi

03-29-2024, 01:49 PM

I’m gonna pop some popcorn! Keep us posted. I wouldn’t count on the roof curvature alone as a template. But a fully guided window mechanism is the only way to seal the side windows. I wish you luck.

Ajzride

03-29-2024, 05:21 PM

Since I gave up on my 3D printed targa top and bought the FFR top, I have the same plan for windows. Thankfully I get to watch you do it first :)

Mark Eaton

03-30-2024, 09:57 AM

Maybe look into a "tube roller". I used one to make this bike and it seems like it would work for your window frame project.

197439

Wow!!

FFRWRX

03-30-2024, 07:20 PM

Maybe look into a "tube roller". I used one to make this bike and it seems like it would work for your window frame project.
The issue with trying to roll/bend channel is that if you bend it one way the side walls want to go out (excess material). So you hammer that back in and it bends another way. I thought of making some sort of rolling bender specifically for channel. It would have to be capable of rolling in various directions for the window frame. I thought it would be a huge effort for something that may or may not have worked.

Rick

Ajzride

03-30-2024, 09:20 PM

My current plan was just pie wedge cutting them. Is that what you guys did?

RPGs818SNA

03-30-2024, 09:40 PM

Would it be useful to try using styrene U-channel and heat form it around the window edges? Once cooled, it should at least fit the window curvature in 2 dimensions. For example:
1/4 in. D x 3/8 in. W x 48 in. L Black Styrene Plastic U-Channel from Home Depot
If I had a coupe rather than a roadster, I’d try it before suggesting it. :)

FFRWRX

03-31-2024, 09:02 AM

My current plan was just pie wedge cutting them. Is that what you guys did?

That's what I did. Ended up with something like 60 welds on each one. The window frame isn't flat, so you have to do it in 3 dimensions.

Mark Eaton

04-02-2024, 10:29 PM

Here's where I am after the weekend. This is challenging...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=197654&d=1712114821

There is a significant difference in the curvature between the DS and PS glass. PS glass is more curved .

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=197655&d=1712114821

Ajzride

04-03-2024, 08:56 AM

There is a significant difference in the curvature between the DS and PS glass. PS glass is more

197662

Mark Eaton

04-12-2024, 09:47 PM

Here's where I am so far.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=198214&d=1712975864

It slides pretty easily by hand...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=198217&d=1712975864

Still have a ways to go but feeling pretty good about the DS side. Here is my problem.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=198215&d=1712975864

That PS window has 1-1/4" more curvature than the DS. This may be hard to fit in the door. I reached out to FFR to see if I could purchase another window but they said they don't have any, I should have one custom made.

BigDanSubaru

04-16-2024, 06:55 AM

Is it possible to have a shop adjust the window using heat or something to flatten it out more? I am not sure if glass can warp. Now you have me nervous and wanting to measure mine. Maybe you could make a Lexan version? Lighter and easier to work with. If you have a window track, then the Lexan window should just ride and curve to that. Good luck to you. I am curious as to how you are going to solve this one.

Mark Eaton

01-05-2025, 11:57 PM

So, a lot of life has gotten in the way since I last posted. My son, Nick, left for college last August. I toyed with the idea of selling the whole project which is what my brother suggested but I have persisted. I had read other builders say that the doors and power window made them want to give up on their 818C and I understand why. Here is what I have accomplished: First off the FFR driver side lock/handle is not workable. I spent way too much time trying to make it work. I bent it, made calipers, reversed it direction, read other posts. I got it to sort of work but it is absolute garbage. Here's a photo, the yellow arrow points to the problem part.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208639&d=1736137495

So I scrapped that mechanism and wired in the OEM keyless entry with this:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208640&d=1736137543

$17 on Amazon and has two remotes and a blinking indicator light. It works great. I kept the inside release lever but it is questionable and easy to "bend" accidentally. I added a "pull" wire that I can use to unlock the car if the battery is dead.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208646&d=1736137587

I also reinforced the upper sill with 1-1/2" aluminum square which I mounted with a combination of epoxy, rivets, and fiberglass

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208641&d=1736137543

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HB5M5R2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Mark Eaton

01-06-2025, 12:11 AM

The excessive curvature of the passenger window was very difficult. I had to stop its travel short because it would collide with the lock mechanism:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=205004&d=1728264572

another view:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208647&d=1736137587

The driver side isn't as bad but does have some limited travel. It won't go down all the way for the same reason. Here they are all the way down.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208648&d=1736137587

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208649&d=1736137842

The good news is that the motors seem to be strong and go up and down nicely. Also, I was pleasantly surprised with the quality of the inner liner.

I did minimal modifications to the doors to try to make things fit a little better but I don't really enjoy working with fiberglass so I settled for "good enough"

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208642&d=1736137543

Mark Eaton

01-06-2025, 12:15 AM

The doors open and close very well and they feel solid especially with the steel window tracts. I was a lot of effort but I think worth it. :)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208650&d=1736137842

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208651&d=1736137842

On to the quick release steering wheel!

MSumners

01-06-2025, 06:46 AM

Awesome. Great to see the updates !

FFRWRX

01-06-2025, 10:04 AM

The excessive curvature of the passenger window was very difficult. I had to stop its travel short because it would collide with the lock mechanism...

Nice job there Mark. Makes you appreciate the quality of the F5 product, doesn't it? :)

A heck of a lot of work, but it really improves one of the areas that is real weak point in the design.

Rick

Mark Eaton

01-06-2025, 11:06 PM

Nice job there Mark. Makes you appreciate the quality of the F5 product, doesn't it? :)

A heck of a lot of work, but it really improves one of the areas that is real weak point in the design.

Rick

I 100% agree, a lot of work but very happy i did it. And thank goodness it was a metal working/welding thing, I can weld all day long. I hate fiberglass work.

Mark Eaton

02-02-2025, 09:23 PM

I installed a quick release steering wheel and was able to maintain the horn and self cancelling turn signal. I owe a debt of gratitude to Mike Camera as I completely copied his build thread on this one! This is an NRG steering wheel and assembly:

I drilled and tapped the black cylinder on the back of the NRG hub and installed the plastic OEM part which cancels the turn signal. I did wrap some tape around the NRG cylinder hub to make the fit more snug

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=210014&d=1738547581

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=210015&d=1738547581

I fabricated a connection to allow the horn to functionl

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=210016&d=1738547581

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=210017&d=1738547581

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=210019&d=1738547813

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=210018&d=1738547581

mcamera

02-03-2025, 11:47 AM

Looking good Mark! I took several notes from AZpete and I'm happy to report that I've had no issues in 3 years.

Mark Eaton

06-12-2025, 06:11 PM

I've never done body work or painted a car. I figure this will be the test run for my Mk4 which I have been driving in gel coat for 5 years! I built this body buck/rack thing to help. I believe first step is scuff it all up with 80 grit? Then fill in the holes and try to smooth the curves with Rage Gold. Then Platinum Plus filler to "smooth" it some more? Then Polyester High build before beginning the painting process? Then block sand with 150 grit.

I welcome any advice

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=214945&d=1749769264

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=214946&d=1749769264

Mark Eaton

09-22-2025, 06:07 PM

Three coats of High Build Primer...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=219212&d=1758582185

Ajzride

09-24-2025, 07:58 AM

I'm almost finished redoing all the paint on my first project (65 mustang) trying to rectify 15 year old sins. I'm still an amauter, but my best advice is don't be afraid of of the lower grit sandpapers. I was always worried about not getting the sanding scratches out, and I tried to get things flat and straight with 220 grit paper, and it just doesn't work. Use the 120 grit and get everthing the shape you want it. Then you can hit the whole thing with some featherfill G2, and it will cover all those scratches. You can then come through with your higher grit papers and smooth it as much as you want.

Bicyclops

09-24-2025, 03:09 PM

I don't even want to start. Aside from the fiberglass being so rough and ill fitting, I'm just having too much fun driving around

Ed

Mark Eaton

09-24-2025, 10:26 PM