Mk4 Complete Kit Purchased yesterday!

[hineas]

I have been dreaming about building a Factory Five Roadster for about 10 years. I have been seriously stalking this forum and scouring everything I can to figure out what I want in the vehicle for about 5 years.

About 3 years ago I was at my brother's house and he mentioned that he wanted to build one as well. Come to find out, he had been researching it for a few years as well. That day we decided we should build it together. Due to him starting a business, we decided to postpone the build. I, on the other hand, just couldn't wait. I was planning on just purchasing the kit and building the car and letting him come help when he could. I have been figuring out all the small details for about a month with the plan of buying the kit within the 6 months to a year. However, a few days ago my brother texted me and said, "Let's do it!"

Needless to say, from the moment he said that to ordering the kit was less than 48 hours.

We have had a lot of long discussions in the past 48 hours (and off and on for the past year). Do we want chrome or do we black it out? Do we want a more modern look or do we want a more classic look? Do we want a 302, 347, 351w or 427? Do we want power steering or manual steering? Or do we do an electric assist for the steering? Do we want a heater? If we do a heater do we want to try to fit a glove box?

The big question we haven't answered is gearing. I have read many forum posts on the topic and still don't know what we are going to do. We are going with the BluePrint 347 with TKO-600. The issue is that where I live and if I want to drive anywhere it is 80 mph speed limits. With the TKO-600 and the 0.82 5th gear with 3.55 rear end, the engine will be at 3050 rpms going 80 mph. If I get the 0.64 5th gear (or whatever ratio it is these days) it will drop the rpms to just under 2400, but then I have a huge gap between 4th and 5th and I think that would be unnatural.

So my next option is to change the gearing to 3.27 or 3.08. This makes cruising at 80 mph better (2800 and 2600 rpms respectively), but I worry it will make around town driving not as comfortable. I've been talking with Johnny from BluePrint and David from Factory Five as well as PMing some members here. I think the general consensus with most people I talk with is to try the 3.55s with the 0.82 5th gear. Then, if we decide that we are cruising at 80mph enough and we don't like the higher RPMs, then regear to lower it some.

Part of me still wants to switch the rear end to 3.27 and get the middle ground and just call it good. I can order the 8.8 with the 3.27 if I want. Honestly, though, I think it really doesn't matter.

So, that is enough of my musings... Here is the build we decided. Just so you know, we are NOT going to be doing any racing, we don't care about a super fast 0-60, etc. We want a street vehicle that is just fun.

Engine/Transmission: BluePrint 347 with EFI and TKO-600 with 0.82 5th gear and hydraulic clutch. We thought about the 427, but we aren't racing or pushing it and this is just a casual street driver. As such we considered the 302, but I wanted fuel injection (especially since I live in Colorado and will be driving it above 10,000 ft at times). The BluePrint 306 with EFI was only $800 cheaper than the 347, so we settled on the 347.

Complete Kit:
Chassis: Powder Coated
Exhaust: 302 headers and polished stainless pipes
Clutch: Hydraulic clutch master cylinder and the throw-out bearing comes with the TKO-600
Driveshaft: 31 spline for 302 and TKO-600
Body: Body cut-outs
Seats: Vintage leather seats
Steering: Manual steering. We have discussed power steering vs the manual rack for a few years. Luckily, I had the opportunity to actually drive a Mk3 with a 427 and manual steering. I spent about 45 minutes behind the wheel. I liked the road feedback and tightness of the steering when driving. Granted, parking required more muscle, but it didn't bother me. The cable actuated clutch, on the otherhand, bothered me more and made me want to do the hydraulic clutch. It makes me wonder if he had it adjusted right. My arms weren't tired after driving but my left leg was...
Suspension Configuration: Standard width and stock shocks
Rear End: 3-link solid axle. We thought long and hard on this but decided that since we are just going to drive on the street and aren't going to push it, we didn't need the IRS.
Gauges: Vintage GPS
Wheels: 17" Halibrand Replicas
Bumpers: Just the over riders
Roll bar: Driver and Passenger Chrome with grommets
Wipers: Yes
Brake Duct Wire Mesh: Yes
Heater/Defroster: Yes. I live in the desert. We don't get much snow. BUT it is often below freezing. I want the soft top and heater since I will drive it year round. I have an old 1964 CJ3b Willys and drive that during the winter and it doesn't have a heater or a top--it is miserable but I love it.
Floor Mats: Yes
Brakes: Standard. We aren't upgrading since this is a casual road driver.

I also think I will do the drop trunk modification and move the battery to the front. I will also get the premium soft top. Outside of that, we aren't going to do any modifications. The 10 year plan is that my brother and I want to build two of these and trade every 2 months. The next one (if it happens), after we learn a thing or two, will likely have more modifications.

I am more than excited. Completion/shipping date is set for end of January. Now I just wait and wait and wait...

[AtlantaCobra]

Congrats my man! You're going to love it. Welcome to the club! Look forward to seeing the progress.
-Greg

[GoDadGo]

Welcome Aboard & Congratulations!

..Check out Edwardb's two (2) build threads for his two MK-4's.

..His build threads really supplement the heck out of the manual.

[Blitzboy54]

Congrats, I just purchased one a couple weeks ago. This board is an incredible resource.


what's your complete date?

[hineas]

Welcome Aboard & Congratulations!

..Check out Edwardb's two (2) build threads for his two MK-4's.

..His build threads really supplement the heck out of the manual.

I have already read them through and plan on doing it again! Great suggestion!

[hineas]

Congrats, I just purchased one a couple weeks ago. This board is an incredible resource.


what's your complete date?

Complete date is 1/23/21. I am going to get it shipped with Stewart.

[hineas]

I plan on doing a build thread so you can follow the progress. As you can see from my initial post, I'm pretty verbose so I think that the build thread will be long and involved.

[miller7448]

Maybe you should consider the T56 Mag.

[CFranks]

Congrats! Nice build choices, I have the 3-link and no complaints on the ride. Get ready for people to try to talk you out of manual steering! (that's my passive aggressive way of doing the same). It limits how aggressive of an alignment you can put on it, the pros on here won't build without. I converted after 1000 miles.

Have fun!

[hineas]

Congrats! Nice build choices, I have the 3-link and no complaints on the ride. Get ready for people to try to talk you out of manual steering! (that's my passive aggressive way of doing the same). It limits how aggressive of an alignment you can put on it, the pros on here won't build without. I converted after 1000 miles.

Have fun!

And so it begins... :)

Honestly, though, I will discuss it more and maybe I'll switch.

I did really enjoy the driving experience with the manual rack, so I think I would be happy either way. The question is, which way would I be happiER?

[hineas]

Maybe you should consider the T56 Mag.

Oooo, I haven't looked at that transmission. I really like that gearing with the 3.55. I am seriously looking into that instead of the TKO-600.

I wonder how much work it is to connect it to the engine? I have never paired a transmission to an engine before.

[TMartinLVNV]

"The big question we haven't answered is gearing. I have read many forum posts on the topic and still don't know what we are going to do. We are going with the BluePrint 347 with TKO-600. The issue is that where I live and if I want to drive anywhere it is 80 mph speed limits. With the TKO-600 and the 0.82 5th gear with 3.55 rear end, the engine will be at 3050 rpms going 80 mph. If I get the 0.64 5th gear (or whatever ratio it is these days) it will drop the rpms to just under 2400, but then I have a huge gap between 4th and 5th and I think that would be unnatural."

Congratulations on your order. I remember being overwhelmed with 1000 decisions that needed to be made. I have a 347, 3.55 gears, and the .64 TKO 600. Yes, there is a big gap between 4th and 5th gears. I don't put it into 5th until above 60 mph. There is so much torque in your motor choice, and with such a light car, that it is not an issue. With the .64, driving at interstate speeds is a dream. The motor just loafs along and because of the torque, there has never been a hill big enough to cause me to downshift when going 70 mph.

[edwardb]

Congrats on your kit purchase. You're in for an exciting adventure. Several comments: I think you're making a mistake with the .082 TKO and 3.55 diff. With the 80 mph limit you have, you're going to get real tired of the higher RPM IMO. I tried the .082/3.27 combination on my #7750 build. Also with a 347 so similar to what you're doing. I was never a huge fan. Yes the cruise RPM's were a little more manageable, but it felt "soft" to me compared to the 3.55's I had before and since. I'd highly recommend the .64 TKO with the 3.55. It's a great combination and the most popular for a reason. Yes, it's a pretty big gap between 4th and 5th. But I don't think it's as big a deal as you're maybe thinking it is. These are cars a light enough and have enough power that you accelerate through 4th and drop into 5th and it just isn't bad. Way less of an issue than listening constantly to your engine at 3000 RPM or whatever while cruising. Yes, you could go T-56. I have one in my Coupe and having both overdrive ratios is very nice. But will only fit in a Roadster with IRS, and especially with a SBF which sits a little further back than a Coyote. Plus a couple of minor mods. So based on what you've described it wouldn't work for you. For power steering, you've fallen into the usual trap of only thinking about effort. They just plain drive better and are more fun with the increased caster the power steering provides. Been there done both, and won't go back. I get that you don't want it overboosted. There are ways to manage that depending on what setup you use. Good luck and have fun!

[ggunter]

Congratulations, with the exception of dual roll bars and no power steering my car is almost identical to yours. I live on the east coast at almost sea level so I went old school with a carb. I did opt for the power steering because of the extra caster of 7 degrees will make the car less twitchy at speed. With the exception of a couple issues, like the heater and glove box, you have to pick one or the other otherwise you will have a glove box door only if you go with the heater. If you got the padded dash it does not fit the contour of the dash hoop so attach it at the top of the hoop in the center of the dash and the sides will rise above the hoop to the left and right of center. Other than that the car is an excellent kit and goes together very easily. Be prepared for a shortage of parts. There are back order items I've ben waiting three months for. But maybe by the time your car is ready some of those items will be back in stock. Good luck and lots of pictures.

[Hoooper]

Oooo, I haven't looked at that transmission. I really like that gearing with the 3.55. I am seriously looking into that instead of the TKO-600.

I wonder how much work it is to connect it to the engine? I have never paired a transmission to an engine before.

Blueprint should put it together for you. The t56 mag has a lot of benefits over the tk0600, the only negative really is size and a little weight. But it fits, so size isnt an issue, and it doesnt sound like you are out to build the lightest roadster you can so weight is also not such an issue.

[RBachman]

Welcome and congratulations!!

[Jeff Kleiner]

Congrats on your kit purchase. You're in for an exciting adventure. Several comments: I think you're making a mistake with the .082 TKO and 3.55 diff. With the 80 mph limit you have, you're going to get real tired of the higher RPM IMO. I tried the .082/3.27 combination on my #7750 build. Also with a 347 so similar to what you're doing. I was never a huge fan. Yes the cruise RPM's were a little more manageable, but it felt "soft" to me compared to the 3.55's I had before and since. I'd highly recommend the .64 TKO with the 3.55. It's a great combination and the most popular for a reason. Yes, it's a pretty big gap between 4th and 5th. But I don't think it's as big a deal as you're maybe thinking it is. These are cars a light enough and have enough power that you accelerate through 4th and drop into 5th and it just isn't bad. Way less of an issue than listening constantly to your engine at 3000 RPM or whatever while cruising. Yes, you could go T-56. I have one in my Coupe and having both overdrive ratios is very nice. But will only fit in a Roadster with IRS, and especially with a SBF which sits a little further back than a Coyote. Plus a couple of minor mods. So based on what you've described it wouldn't work for you. For power steering, you've fallen into the usual trap of only thinking about effort. They just plain drive better and are more fun with the increased caster the power steering provides. Been there done both, and won't go back. I get that you don't want it overboosted. There are ways to manage that depending on what setup you use. Good luck and have fun!

And for the second time in less than a half hour Paul (edwardb) has saved me from having to do a bunch of typing! I agree 100% with his comments on gearing and power steering. Thanks Paul :cool:

Congrats on your order hineas!

Jeff

[swwebb]

Regarding power steering - I have electric power steering that is adjustable. You can always turn it way down so it is off, so you'll have manual steering. The issue is then what alignment do you get - manual or power steering? The caster is different.

[miller7448]

Oooo, I haven't looked at that transmission. I really like that gearing with the 3.55. I am seriously looking into that instead of the TKO-600.

I wonder how much work it is to connect it to the engine? I have never paired a transmission to an engine before.

Bought mine paired with a 427 from Forte. Be away it does require minor modifications to the frame, parking brake handle mounting, and likely a custom drive shaft. That said I'm very pleased with mine.

[hineas]

So, you are all bad influences on me during work. I'd rather be reading your responses than doing my job! Luckily I get down time so I can skim through...

Here is the update to my build. I emailed FFR and asked them to add on power steering. We were teetering back and forth so it didn't take a big push. The increase in caster and handling is the biggest reason my decision tipped. I might have to look at reducing the boost if I think it is too much, but we will deal with that later. So thanks for the feedback.

After reading your responses (and a thousand other threads on the same topic), I am looking like I am going to go with the 347 and TKO-600 with the 0.64 overdrive. The comments from those that have the exact same setup was exactly what I needed. I am having BluePrint set up the order for the 347 and 0.64 overdrive.

I know this has been said a countless times, but this forum is great. I belong to many forums and I'm impressed with this one. Thank you!

[David Hodgkins]

...and from the other side of the isle...

Love my manual, and like the raw feeling of the road better than my brother's power steering. My car is a pure manual. Steering, brakes, transmission.

The way I like it. Not trying to talk you out of power steering, but know there are folks out there who enjoy a manual setup.

:)

[hineas]

...and from the other side of the isle...

Love my manual, and like the raw feeling of the road better than my brother's power steering. My car is a pure manual. Steering, brakes, transmission.

The way I like it. Not trying to talk you out of power steering, but know there are folks out there who enjoy a manual setup.

:)

Always two sides to every decision!

Basically, I was leaning toward power steering already and we switched to manual at the last minute.

[hineas]

I also just did the order for the engine and transmission. 347 with fuel injection and the TKO-600 with 0.64 overdrive.

Thank you all for your help!

[Jay-rod427]

Blueprint can upgrade to the T56 for about $1,000. I confirmed that a few weeks ago. Still comes complete ready to bolt in package.

[txboiler]

Congrats. Our builds are remarkably similar; with the exception of soft top and wipers. I too planned on the 302 from blue print but after talking to Johnny I am trying to decide on the 347 or spend that $800 Elsewhere.

My completion is end of December. So I too am waiting...waiting...waiting...

[hineas]

Congrats. Our builds are remarkably similar; with the exception of soft top and wipers. I too planned on the 302 from blue print but after talking to Johnny I am trying to decide on the 347 or spend that $800 Elsewhere.

My completion is end of December. So I too am waiting...waiting...waiting...

We can wait together!

Johnny has been such a huge help.

[Straversi]

Congratulations. Look forward to seeing the progress and how it influences the second build. My brother and I have discussed to possibility of building a second FFR and swapping every 6 months. Keep us in the loop
-Steve

[hineas]

Congratulations. Look forward to seeing the progress and how it influences the second build. My brother and I have discussed to possibility of building a second FFR and swapping every 6 months. Keep us in the loop
-Steve

Yes, that is the dream!

Currently we are going to swap the roadster fairly frequently, probably every month or two (still figuring that out, but we have plenty of time to hash out the details). Part of me is actually excited to do the swapping back and forth. He lives a few hundred miles away, so that means we won't just "stop by" to take the car out. However, what this means is when it is my turn to have the car at my house I will be really excited to drive it. You know the whole "absence makes the heart grow fonder." It will be like getting a new car every few months!

[nucjd19]

Congrats man! I have almost the exact same build ( 347BPETKO600, power steering, 3 link, 17" wheels ) and am scheduled for build finish 11/14. I can't wait to see how your builds go and to compare notes. I will be building mine with my bro and dad so I totally get the family connection.

[CraigS]

You made the right decision on rear gear and 5th ratio and PS. If one track races an FFR (actual races not HPDEs etc) that tall 5th w/ the big gap may not be right. But as said already, it's not big deal on the street. What I noticed more than anything was I had to wait until I could use 5th in regular driving because I felt like I was lugging the engine below 50 mph which meant 1200rpm or so in 5th. But the other side of the coin, the about (working from 10yr memory here since I had a 355) 2100 @ 70mph was so, so nice.

[hineas]

Congrats man! I have almost the exact same build ( 347BPETKO600, power steering, 3 link, 17" wheels ) and am scheduled for build finish 11/14. I can't wait to see how your builds go and to compare notes. I will be building mine with my bro and dad so I totally get the family connection.

Our vehicles are almost twins! I will watch your build too!

[jiriza84641]

Congrats and welcome to the madness, you'll have tons of questions even when you see other builds. I know I did and still do.

[Jtune11@its.jnj.com]

Congratulations. I just ordered mine last week. Did IPR suspension and wilwood upgrades. Ordered 427 power train. Looking forward to learning from everyone and seeing projects develop

[nelsond003]

Always two sides to every decision!

Basically, I was leaning toward power steering already and we switched to manual at the last minute.

Power steering is a must in my book. Good choice.

[Mark Reynolds]

Just want to point out that I love my 3.27 gears with .68 overdrive T5 with the Ford Racing 302 340hp.
Comment above about 2000 RPM at 70mph being so so nice - and at least around here the typical highway speed is 75+ so that is where the .68 is even better. I have done the 3.55 too and it is quite snappy, but really not necessary - you can start out in 3rd and call it a 3 speed.

[hineas]

Just want to point out that I love my 3.27 gears with .68 overdrive T5 with the Ford Racing 302 340hp.
Comment above about 2000 RPM at 70mph being so so nice - and at least around here the typical highway speed is 75+ so that is where the .68 is even better. I have done the 3.55 too and it is quite snappy, but really not necessary - you can start out in 3rd and call it a 3 speed.

That is good to know. Thanks!

I'm glad I went with the 0.64 for the over drive. We will see what I think of the 3.55 with it but I suspect that will be good. At 65 mph it will be at roughly 1930 and 70 mph will be 2080 rpm assuming my calculations are correct.

Boy, this wait has been hard. I think I have read the build manual cover to cover at least 3 times, and I still have 2-3 months before delivery!

[nelsond003]

I am at 1800rpm at 80 mph. 3.55s in my IRS.

[Kmcallahan]

I did not see it covered in this post but rear tire height will make a difference also. So keep that in mind.