Jamo's Gen 3 Coupe Complete Kit Build

[jamo]

INTRO
Well the time has finally come and I am getting to embark on the journey of building my first car. I have been wanting to do this as long as I can remember. I've been reading forums and trying to gather every bit of knowledge I can in preparation. I'd like to start by saying thank you to everyone on this forum for documenting their builds and sharing their experiences, you have given me the confidence I needed that I am ready to do this. I will do my best to document my journey as well in hopes that it helps someone else. Probably wont be anything close to edwardb's build in knowledge expertise or thoroughness, but I sure got a lot of good ideas from there.

I grew up fixing cars here and there with my father and grandfather, but most of these were just small projects or general maintenance type tasks. The rest of my mechanical knowledge comes from when I was a Crew Chief (Mechanic) on the F-16 in the Air Force, not that thoes skills will necessarily help me here. I am by no means an expert, and if I start posting about something you feel is the incorrect way to do something or you know a better way, please please please let me know. I will take all the help I can get and will in no way be offended.

PREPERATION
I want to use a gen 2 Coyote motor for the build, and I know that a few other pieces off the 2015+ Mustang GT fit the build. I had planned to wait until I had the Coupe 65 before buying or dismantling a Mustang, but I found a wrecked 2017 Mustang GT that was too good of an offer to pass up. I purchased it a few months ago and wasn't ready to order the Coupe 65. Bored and cooped up at home during COVID-19 I've now completely dismantled the Mustang and sold off any parts I didn't think were useful. So my plan is to use as many of these parts as I can or as makes sense, I am buying the complete kit so no need to keep the Mustang frame. I've already sold enough parts that if I only use the motor I'm still in the green, so no hard feelings if the masses agree to not use some of the parts I planned on. Below are most of the parts I kept, not that I plan to use them all, but just what I have to pull from if necessary or just sell off later:

Coyote 5.0 Engine 26k miles
6r80 Automatic Transmission
Driveshaft
Electric Power Steering
Steering wheel w/column
IRS w/entire rear end
Front suspension
Front and rear swaybar
All 4 disk brakes and hubs
All ABS parts
Brake pedal and brake booster
A/C heater defroster
Electric gas pedal
Shifter
Hand Brake
Window wipers w/motor
Windshield washer system
Whole dash with instruments and controls
Every wiring harness and computer/PCM
Headliner
Rear View mirror
Horn

Aside from the mustang I have been trying to purchase all the tools I didn't already have, or that I think I will need. I'd much rather buy the right tool than struggle with the wrong ones, suggestions welcome. I'd say I have a good start, but I'm sure there will be specialty tools on the way. Unfortunately a lift is not in this build budget, so 4 floor stands it is.

THE PLAN......
Well every project has to have a plan to start so that it can get wildly off track right? Before placing the order the plan was to go out to FFR, get a tour, see the options, sit in the car, and ask a bunch of questions. Unfortunately there are no tours during the current world situation, but once again bored at home I just can't stand to wait any longer. So scratch step 1. Maybe before my kit comes I will get the opportunity to go out there.

As I mentioned before I plan to use a Gen 2 Coyote with the 6r80 transmission. Don't hate me for using an auto, I really struggled with the decision, but I do plan to do some racing so ultimately decided it was faster this way. I do plan on having a way to manually control the gears, just no clutch.

I'm not in a huge rush to complete this build, I plan to take it slow, learn a lot, have fun, and build a quality/safe car. I hope this will be the first of many builds, hopefully some with my son when he gets older. I'm shooting to complete the build in a year, but with all this time at home it may be sooner.

ORDER
Below is what I intend to order, I have added some questions I have with them. If you know the answer please respond, otherwise I'll post an update when I figure it out. My biggest question is what all I already have or if I can choose no option. (You should be able to delete options when ordering with FFR)

Kit

Type 65 Coupe Complete Kit
Is the Coupe-R street legal? (Short answer is yes, no guarantee, check with your state)

Powder Coat

60362 - Powder coated chassis
After reading the below comments decided to have FFR Powder coat it

Gauge Package

"Delete" - No selection, I'm planning on a digital dash

Engine/transmission mount

15440 - 5.0L Coyote Mounts with transmission mount plate

Exhaust system

16811 - Headers: 5.0L Coyote stainless steel 4-port full length

Clutch package

"Delete" - No selection, 6R80 is an automatic

Driveshaft

"Delete" - No selection, this will need to be custom for the 6R80

Body cut-out option

12070 - Body with cut-outs of side pipes, body mounts, lighting accessories, gas cap, and side openings

Seat package

"Delete" - No selection, Planning on the Corbeau Sportline Evolution X 64901FBS w/ heated seat (thanks edwardb)

Steering system

16473 - 5.0L Coyote power steering kit
Will the electric steering from the 2017 Mustang GT work in this car? (Not without heavy fabrication, wrong width and space constraints)

Front suspension configuration

12066 - Standard Width Tubular Front Lower Control Arms

Rear suspension configuration

60737 - 2015 Mustang-based Independent Rear Suspension Kit with KONI coil-overs, tubular control arms, and CV axles
I already have the 2017 Mustang GT IRS do any of these parts work? (The center section and hubs can be used)

Options

60378 - A/C - Heater-Defroster for 5.0L Coyote (the Mustangs one is to large, this is something different)
Will my Windshield wipers work?
60364- Coupe Interior Black Carpet Package, pre-cut
60760 - Brushed Aluminum Interior Door Handles
12453 - Battery Cutoff Switch
Do I need the Ford Style EFI Harness or Fuel system? (No because of the non FFR fuel parts I plan on)
Will my swaybars work? (No)
16116 - Front Swaybar
2015 IRS Rear Swaybar
60372 - Aero Vents, 1 Off-Set Hood Scoop & 2 Small Footbox Vents
Do I need the Coyote Installation Kit or do I already have everything from the Mustang? (there are a few parts you will need, but they can be purchased elsewhere as needed)
15996 - Upgrade: Double Adjustable KONI Front and Rear IRS Shocks (set of 4)
I believe I already have 16668 - 2018 Mustang IRS 3.55 Center Section, Spindles, and Hubs

Wilwood Brake Upgrades

15370 - 12.88” Front Wilwood Brakes, Red Calipers, Drilled & Slotted
12.88” 201215 IRS Wilwood Brakes, Red Calipers, Drilled & Slotted

Pickup or delivery

Stewart Transportation

Engine and transmission source

Donor Vehicle Engine/Transmission Parts

When do you want your kit?

ASAP


Non FFR Parts
These are most all from edwardb's build, much thanks. You seem like you know far better than I do, and it can't hurt to try.

Moog ES2150RL tie rod ends
Energy Suspension 9.13101G tie rod dust boots
Howe Racing 22320S upper ball joints
Suspension 5.13102G boots on the upper ball joints
Fan Shroud
Pro-M Racing High Flow Fuel Pump Hanger for 1986 – 1997 Mustangs
Breeze big bore vent-check valve
Corbeau Sportline Evolution X 64901FBS w/ heated seat + Seat mount 1" tall
Headlights - Hella H4 Vision Plus lenses with LED replacement bulbs & GTR Lighting Ultra Series 3rd Generation LED H4 bulbs
Fog lights - KC HiLiTES 493 4" Gravity LED fog lights
Gen 2 Coyote - Moroso pan and pickup for clearance (is this required? Yes, for clearance)
Rrigid stainless tubing for fuel and brake lines
Trick Flow TFS-23006 fuel filter

[edwardb]

Congrats on your kit order and upcoming build! Lots of possible comments from your post. Here are a few.

- You should be able to get the R chassis street legal. You just have to decide if it’s really required for your intended use. The big drawback, at least for me, is it makes an already somewhat difficult entry and exit even harder with the added bars through the door openings. If you’re young and flexible (I’m 0 for 2 on that count) maybe you’ll be OK with it. It will definitely affect who wants to ride with you, including maybe your significant other.

- Frankly I doubt many of the parts you have from your Mustang donor will fit or be useable. Once you have the Coyote in place, plus the design of the frame, your available space is somewhat limited. That includes your heat/A-C, wipers, steering column, sway bars, likely others.

- More power to you getting the 6R80 automatic installed. I have zero knowledge or experience with that. I don’t mind shifting. But the newer modern transmissions certainly work well. I have no idea if it fits into the transmission tunnel space. Issues to address IMO: You don’t need the hydraulic clutch option you list, likely the rear mount will be different, I know the driveshaft will take some work as it doesn't have the slip yoke commonly used on Tremec transmissions, and you’ll also have some work to do integrating the electronics control. I don’t know if Ford Performance supports this package. Or perhaps there’s an aftermarket option.

- I don’t believe your front Mustang steering rack will work. Wrong width. Probably won’t fit in the frame. The electronic controls required are part of the overall Mustang package and not easily retrofitted as I understand. Sure would recommend doing the Coyote power steering option. The KRC setup (sold by Factory Five or available separately) is top notch and you’ll never regret adding it. With the quality of build you’re planning, would be a shame not having power steering from the start.

- For the rear suspension, you’ll only use the center section and the knuckles/hubs. The rest of the Mustang suspension (control arms, shocks, sub-frame, etc.) isn't usable. The rear brakes might be. I know some are and some aren’t. Sorry I don’t know details on that one. But you list the Wilwood brake options so looks like a moot point.

- With the complete kit, you’ll get the Ron Francis body harness. I’d highly recommend the Ford Performance control pack for the electronics side of your Coyote installation. Others have tried using the Mustang harness with their Coyote. Several have indicated they gave up. Depends on your knowledge, experience, and patience. Better off IMO using the crate motor package from Ford. Gives you the proper calibration in the PCM and all the necessary wiring. A proven approach. Only wildcard is the automatic transmission control mentioned previously.

- You list the Pro-M fuel pump hangar, Trick Flow filter, rigid fuel lines, etc. All have worked well for me in several builds. You don't need the Factory Five EFI kit. You also don't need the EFI harness.

- You mention using the uncoated frame and then powder coating after holes are drilled and everything fitted. Unless you’re planning frame modifications (cutting, welding, etc.) or you want a different color coating, not sure about that plan. The price Factory Five charges is quite reasonable. And you’ll be drilling all those holes again to clear powder coat if you do it afterwards. So not sure what you’re gaining there. Fitting, at least with the standard parts and layout, isn’t affected by the powder coat.

Hope those comments are helpful. Not one way to approach all of this. That’s part of the fun. Planning and making it your own. Good luck and welcome aboard!

[Logan]

First off, welcome! Lots of info there.

1. You’ve kept more parts from the S550 donor than you will need, but that’s okay. You can sell what doesn’t get used
2. If using a digital dash (AiM, Motec, Racepak, etc) then you can have FFR “delete” the gauges from your order, or keep them on your order and sell them yourself
3. The Coupe-R is not marketed as a street vehicle. FFR makes no promises that you’d be able to register it for street use in your state. Some states take issue with the tubes in the front windshield for example. And climbing into a street chassis is hard enough, let alone the extra door bars. But if you don’t mind climbing in and out, and your state will register it, it could be done.
4. If using an automatic transmission, you don’t need the hydraulic clutch master cylinder
5. Delete the FFR supplied driveshaft from your order, and take the credit they give you for it. You’ll have to get a custom driveshaft made locally or from an online service (based on your measurements) and shipped to you.
6. The S550 Mustang EPAS (Electric Power Assist Steering) will not work in the FFR, unless you just like doing heavy fabrication. The front end is designed to fit the standard steering rack, and since you’re ordering a complete kit it already comes with everything you need.
7. Make sure you order the $2,500 IRS option when ordering your kit, if you plan to use the IRS differential and knuckles from your donor. Then your frame will be setup to receive those parts, and will come with control arms and axles to complete the rear suspension.
8. S550 AC/Heater components will not fit the FFR. Unfortunately not much does, even the FFR option is tight and it’s nearly the smallest unit on the matket.
9. You don’t need the FFR “Ford EFI harness”. What you DO need is the Ford Performance Control Pack for your Coyote. Available from many places online, around $1,600 give or take. This won’t control a transmission either, so be prepared to account for that as well.
10. S550 swaybars will not fit
11. You can get the Coyote install kit from FFR if you want, but IMHO it is overpriced and not really needed. You can source the missing items easily enough as you find what you need. Small things like sensor adapters, and some hose plugs.
12. Yes the Moroso pan and pickup are required, the engine is low in the chassis, and the stock Mustang pan will not clear.

There is a lot more detail I could get into on all of the above, such as the “Why” many of the items you referenced won’t work. But this is a lot to start with, so my first pass is high level overview. Time to refine the plan. You’re off to a good start already.

[jamo]

Wow, thanks for the quick responses guys!

After talking my wife, we have agreed that we would like to avoid the added difficulty getting in and out, as well as we don’t want bars in the window blocking the view. Going to stick with the non R version. While I may be flexible and somewhat young now, 33, I plan to be driving this car until I pass it on to my kids, and don’t want it to be a limiting factor down the road. I’m constantly reminding myself I’m not building a racecar, just a car that may occasionally go down a drag strip.

I updated the original post to alleviate any confusion as to the order after taking your advice, and answered the questions there in case someone later has the same questions.

I had read that the 6R80 requires some modifications to the trans tunnel but can be done. Ill try to find where I read that. But this modification was a big part of leaving the frame uncoated. I’ll start calling around for quotes, I’m in Jackson MS if anyone has a suggestion but the car scene isn’t big here. I’ll probably end up bringing it to Memphis or New Orleans to get done. The other option would be to see if FFR would powder coat it without whatever parts are my issue, then I could just bolt on whatever modification I need and powder coat it separately. Not sure how flexible they are on things like this.

Just left a message with Factory Five to place the order. Eagerly awaiting their call back.

[Logan]

FFR powdercoating is VERY reasonably priced. I’d recommend just having it coated. The modifications you do on the chassis will not be visible on a completed car, so any cutting/welding/grinding/painting you need to do to make the automatic transmission fit can be done easily enough on an already-coated frame. Besides, seeing how much room is around the T56 Magnum in the Gen3 Coupe chassis, it might not take much modification to fit anyway. If any.

[Gordon Levy]

6R80 fits fine but needs trans mount mods. We have one in a R coupe here

[jamo]

Its great to hear that the 6R80 fits without extensive modifications. With that in mind I'm going with the powder coat option from Factory Five. Thank you Logan and Gordon Levy!

I don't know if anyone knows but I doubt the R coupe's trans tunnel is any different size wise than the non-R version.

Placed my order and it sounds like late Dec I should expect it. Can't wait! Now to figure out what to do in the interim.

[jamo]

6R80 fits fine but needs trans mount mods. We have one in a R coupe here

Is this something I will modify myself, or is it something I can buy?

[Gordon Levy]

You can do it yourself. We basically made a trans mount that went between the FFR flat bracket and the trans.

[jamo]

You can do it yourself. We basically made a trans mount that went between the FFR flat bracket and the trans.

Awesome, thanks for the input!

[Chris @ Forma]

Welcome to the community. A couple of additional comments:
Tunnel on the R is the same we have one in our shop right now.
We have developed an HVAC system for the coupe that packages quite well. We are putting into one of our builds currently. We haven't priced it yet as I don't have a cost roll up just yet. It should be in the neighborhood of a ResoMod system. We should have it available by the end of the year.
We have developed an electric power steering solution that uses a pump from an Mini and a standard FFR PS rack. It will be a bit less expensive than a front loader. Front loader will not work with a supercharger.
Once again welcome to the community,

[Alan_C]

Nice to see someone else using the 6R80 in their build. In my case, a 70 Mach 1 restomod. I am a few years into my build and have learned a couple of things about the 6R80. The controls pack supports the sport shift function, however you have to add three wires to the shifter. I am using the sport shifter from Lokar for the 6R80. The shifter can be placed in sport mode and the up and down shifts are controlled by bumping the shift up and down. So the paddle function is moved to the Lokar shifter.
I have info from Ford Performance for the controls pack harness and the sport shift wiring. Power By The Hour sells the pins with pigtails attached for the controls pack (body harness) PCM connector. You are left with the job of extending those wires up to your shifter.
I too bought a wrecked 2017 GT at auction a few years ago. An advantage of going this route is you get the OEM accessory drive, AC compressor, and Alternator.
Note, Total Control Products makes a transmission support that fits the back of the 6R80 perfectly. Not too expensive for those who do not want to fabricate from scratch. Maybe something to look at and see if you can modify it to fit the FF frame. The trans mount kit is not fixed, you have components you fit and weld up as needed.

[PhilO]

Not to hijack the thread, but the Ford control pack controls the 6R80? Their website says manual transmission only and you will need an external controller.

[jamo]

I'm not sure about Ford, but Power By the Hour makes a harness for the 6R80. The Ford control pack just takes care of the engine.

We will see how much of the OEM stuff I end up using. I have actually been talking to PBH about my swap and they have been quite helpful. Also have been talking to Lund Racing for getting it tuned when its all done. Trying to do as much research ahead of time as I can.

[Alan_C]

There are two version of the controls pack, one for manual and one for use with the 6R80. I have the AT versions of the controls pack and the instruction sheet clearly state it works with the 6R80.

By the way, who is "their" website. The controls pack instruction sheet M-6017-M50A /504V says on the front cover 5.0L Controls Pack Installation Manual/Automatic.

In this case I am speaking of the 2nd Gen Coyote years 2015-2017. Not sure about the 1st gen and, I believe, the 3rd Gen has support for the 10R80.

[Alan_C]

There are two versions of the Ford Coyote engine harness. The one for the AT has the extension harness connecting to the 6R80. My engine and transmission are a take out from a wrecked 2017 GT, so I have the engine harness supporting the 6R80. I have requested harness info from Ford Performance for the engine harness, but no reply in a week. I may have to buy a service manual for the electrical system to get that data.

BTW, there is a guy here who has the 2nd Gen Coyote and 6R80 in his 33 hot rod and he has driven the vehicle. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?24427-1002-SVTFreaks-build&highlight=6R80

[PhilO]

Yep your right, maybe I was looking at some old instructions or got it confused with the eco boost. Good to know.

[Snowman]

There are two versions of the Ford Coyote engine harness. The one for the AT has the extension harness connecting to the 6R80...

Very true statement for the Gen 2 (no clue on the Gen 1). Not that the OP is using it, but the Gen 3 only has one harness on the Mustang Coyote, it works for both AT and MT. The Gen 3 F-150 harness is a different story altogether.

[jamo]

Nice to see someone else using the 6R80 in their build. In my case, a 70 Mach 1 restomod. I am a few years into my build and have learned a couple of things about the 6R80. The controls pack supports the sport shift function, however you have to add three wires to the shifter. I am using the sport shifter from Lokar for the 6R80. The shifter can be placed in sport mode and the up and down shifts are controlled by bumping the shift up and down. So the paddle function is moved to the Lokar shifter.
I have info from Ford Performance for the controls pack harness and the sport shift wiring. Power By The Hour sells the pins with pigtails attached for the controls pack (body harness) PCM connector. You are left with the job of extending those wires up to your shifter.
I too bought a wrecked 2017 GT at auction a few years ago. An advantage of going this route is you get the OEM accessory drive, AC compressor, and Alternator.
Note, Total Control Products makes a transmission support that fits the back of the 6R80 perfectly. Not too expensive for those who do not want to fabricate from scratch. Maybe something to look at and see if you can modify it to fit the FF frame. The trans mount kit is not fixed, you have components you fit and weld up as needed.

I have been looking into a bump shifter option and have also looked at the Lokar shifter, the newer version comes with the added "S" to then slide over for the bump shifting making it more like the stock. I haven't decided if I will attempt to use the harness from the donor car or if I will buy a control pack from PBH. If I understand it correctly the control pack wont run the Coyote compressor correctly so I would need to change more if I go that route. It will depend on how overwhelmed I get trying to wire it all up.

[jamo]

Figured Id post some pictures from my progress. Here is the mustang I started with.
135947
Got it home after my pregnant wife saved the day by getting an airline ticket, flying to Georgia where she got a rental car to drive from Atlanta, rented a uHaul truck and trailer then picked it up from Copart, returned the truck and sat with the Mustang. I was on the road to get there with my truck but had somehow screwed up my time zones and was going to be late by 2 hours and didn't have another day I could wait as I was leaving out with the Air Force the next day.
135948
Got the Mustang home, and to my horror it didn't start, it didn't even turn on dash lights after charging the battery over night. I really wanted to make sure it ran before pulling it out, putting it in the Coupe with a million new variables and then trying to diagnose. I went out and bought a battery and it started right up. However, it ran like total garbage. Thought it must be in a limp mode or maybe had ingested something in the crash. I had been borrowing code readers from friends or taking my cars to AutoZone to read codes and decided I should invest in one for myself to track down the codes it was throwing. After a bunch of research I ended up buying a scan tool from BlueDriver. It allowed me to monitor live data, read all the error codes including TPMS and SRS and reset them as well as save all the codes to my phone all wirelessly with Bluetooth. The app also shows common fixes and even links to Amazon to common parts. Anyway enough about the tool. A few codes stuck out that wouldn't clear P0122 and P0223, both are for the throttle/Pedal Position Sensor, switch A (low) & B (high) respectively. After looking all over I found that a connector was damaged right below the intake manifold inlet and wasn't fully seated. Plugged it in all the way and it ran like a champ. May have done a burnout in the driveway....
135949
I then began disassembly of the Mustang. What I had planned on taking me 6 months to do ended up only taking a few weeks. My father and uncle were eager to help and taking apart a newer car without all the rust and time holding everything together turned out to be a breeze.
135950
135951
135952
To remove the engine I bought a Ford Coyote 5.0 Engine Lift Plate from Motion Raceworks. Requires taking off the intake and using the same bolts to attach the bracket. Took a little doing, but I may be removing all that anyway if I end up putting a supercharger or upgrading to a ported 2018 Intake manifold. I was able to remove the engine and transmission with only draining the radiator fluid, all other fluids and hoses were left connected.
135953
135954
135955
With my workshop now covered in parts I began selling off the pieces I didn't need and actually recovered much more of the cost of the Mustang than I had anticipated.
135956
The shell was sold and from what I understand is now a drag car. Now, much sooner than anticipated I began feverishly researching the 65 Coupe and trying to read through as many forums as I could gathering information.

[jamo]

I reached out to Power By the Hour with some questions and Travis Deane quickly got back to me. Here is my interaction in case anyone else has these questions.

(My Message) I have most every part of the running gear, every wiring harness, computer, PCM... I do not plan to add turbos or a supercharger at this time, but want the flexibility to do so in the future. One last note is that the kit wont be delivered to me until Dec so I'm just gathering information now. I do have the motor and trans to begin doing anything I need to get it ready however (swap the oil pan and pickup, etc).

1. Should I even make an attempt to use the wiring harness I pulled from the car or should I just go ahead and buy a Ford Performance control pack for the Motor and Trans. I have yet to determine what all else I will be able to use, such as if I can make the ABS or traction control work. The car will have power steering, AC, radio, and a digital dash.

1-A. It depends on how much time, money, and headache you want to invest. To make the abs/tc work, you're going to need to use all the components from the donor car so the PCM still thinks it's in the donor car. Easiest way to do the swap is the control pack plus your engine/trans harness, assuming you're going to be using the trans from the GT. PS and AC is easy, but with a control pack it won't run the Coyote compressor correctly. That's why we use the 96-10 GT compressor, or in tight engine bays and retro swaps we use the Sanden SD7 7176 compressor. Our bracket kits can accommodate either, so long as it's specified. We also use the PS pump from the 96-10 GT. There's also someone making a "universal" TC/ABS system based on the BMW e46, but the name escapes me. I don't know how well it works either.

2. Can you guys design an intake, create and place an intake, or just verify that what I'm planning isn't bad or dumb. I've watched the video where there was a discussion on diameter, and mass airflow sensor placement, as well as concerns on intake temperatures from the engine bay. I understand that I will probably need to get the car to you guys to do some or all of this.

2-A. We actually have a universal air intake kit we use with broncos, lincolns, mustangs, f100s, etc. It will very likely fit your setup and includes a MAF housing of the same diameter as the stock unit, so if the piping and couplers we provide don't work in your setup, you'll still have the critical component to place how you want.

3. Will a tune from someone like Lund Racing take care of all the sensors I will no longer have? The car will not have a catalytic converter for starters. Or will I need to purchase pieces from you guys that will trick the computer? I plan to get a tune from Lund Racing or someone similar regardless.

3-A. Tuning can fix a lot of things, and optimize the performance of the combo. The control pack actually does most of the work when it comes to the different modules an actual stock vehicle has that a swap vehicle won't have. It's also a lot less bulky of a harness.

4. I will need a custom length driveshaft. I don't know the length yet, but it will be to attach the stock 6r80 to the stock rear end. I know there are some specific things that are important when it comes to this from the 6r80 side, do you guys sell this or know where I can order it?

4-A. Once you have everything mounted/positioned, and the vehicle is load bearing on it's wheels/tires (like it would be cruising down the road) you should be able to grab a flange to flange measurement and call Drive Shaft Shop to get a driveshaft made. You'll just want to specify it's a 6r80 and what year, so they can use the proper front flange, and then tell them what rear flange you need.

5. Lastly, was just curious if you recommend anything else that I should be tracking when doing a swap? The motor and trans have 26,000 miles on them, didn't know if while it was all out and accessible if you recommend upgrading injectors or any bits and pieces to make it more robust or better. Or, if thoes type things would be better to wait on until I decide to put in turbos or a supercharger, likely years away from that.

5-A. For NA, there's nothing really needed to upgrade. If you are planning ahead and may have a supercharger in mind, you'll want to upgrade the oil pump gear and crank sprocket while the engine is out of the vehicle. Just follow the cam timing instructions step for step. Injectors should be fine and stepping them up in size will depend on how much more power you want to make down the road. It's just not worth spending the money up front though since we don't really know what things will be like in a couple years. As far as what fuels are available, what's included in different forced induction kits, etc.


I then reached out to Lund Racing Jon Lund got back to me right away.

(My Message) When I do get the car all up and running, I plan to have you guys tune it, but I wanted to make sure that I didn't do anything to compromise that. For starters would you recommend not using the factory wiring harnesses, computers, and PCM? Didn't know if this gave me less tunability so to speak, or if it made things like deleting the sensors I won't have harder (no catalytic converters on the new car). Second, I'm trying to do a digital dash and didn't know if you guys recommend one over another or if you don't work with certain ones. I had looked at going with the Holly EFI dash, but thought a friend told me you guys didn't tune on that.

(Reply) The ECU will need ePATs Deleted or you will need to setup the harness like a Ford Racing unit so we can flash with the Gen 2 Crate Auto File. No issues tuning them.

[jamo]

I have begun trying to find and price all the parts that I plan to get from sources other than Factory Five. I've run into a few questions with the Moroso oil pan. In looking around the forums it appears that some of you are using Part #20570 and some might be using Part #20573. It appears that they are different heights. Does anyone know if there is a better choice than another? I called Moroso but they only knew about the Cobra not the Coupe.

[Logan]

Moroso 20570 is the oil pan you need. It’s made of steel, and if you wanted to upgrade they make the exact same pan from aluminum also (PN 20569).

Oil pickup available from Moroso as well, part numbers as follows:

PN 24570 = Gen 2 Coyote (bolt-in connection at oil pump)
PN 24577 = Gen 3 Coyote/GT350 (slip-in connection at oil pump)

[jamo]

Moroso 20570 is the oil pan you need. It’s made of steel, and if you wanted to upgrade they make the exact same pan from aluminum also (PN 20569).

Oil pickup available from Moroso as well, part numbers as follows:

PN 24570 = Gen 2 Coyote (bolt-in connection at oil pump)
PN 24577 = Gen 3 Coyote/GT350 (slip-in connection at oil pump)

Thanks Logan! Wasn't able to order straight from Moroso because they were sold out, but found it and the pickup on Amazon for about the same price.

Also did a bunch of looking around for the oil pump gear and crank sprocket. MMR makes a version that they have put far more horsepower to than I ever plan, plus it has a lifetime warrantee. I ordered "MMR Billet Oil Pump Gears and Crank Sprocket Combo (2015-2020 Mustang GT 2015-2020 Shelby GT350) - GEARSPROCKETCOMBO1518 (https://www.lethalperformance.com/mmr-billet-oil-pump-gears-and-crank-sprocket-combo-2015-2019-mustang-gt-2015-2018-shelby-gt350.html)" from Lethal Performance. They had a fair price, added the option for a new OEM crank bolt and waterpump O-ring, and had free shipping.

Now to wait for shipping to have something to do while I attempt to patiently wait for my kit. I'm sure by now my wife is sick of me giddily talking about it all the time.

[jamo]

Ok so I've done a ton of learning and research today, figured I'd try to share it to the best of my ability.

First I ordered my Radiator Fan Shroud from Breeze Automotive (https://www.breezeautomotive.com/shop/radiator-fan-shroud/), it used to be part #32204 but has been updated and is now #70772. It's the same as the mk4 for the coupe it just goes in upside down as the radiators are tilted opposite directions. Mark at Breeze Automotive answered my call right away and was super helpful, thanks edwardb for the advice.

Second I began trying to address a transmission cooler and lines for the 6r80. I don't believe that the stock cooler will fit in front of the radiator, and even if it did I think it would detract from the look. I found a kit with an electric fan (https://pbhperformance.com/product/transmission-cooler-kit/) that I plan to mount in the rear of the car somewhere from Power By the Hour(PBH), I also bought a fitting kit to tie it all into the trans nicely.

I also purchased a 5.0L Coyote Evap Delete Plate from PBH (https://pbhperformance.com/product/5-0l-coyote-evap-delete-plate/?attribute_select-your-material=CNC+machined+Aluminum) as I wont be using the Evap system. There are cheaper and easier ways to do this but I liked the look and wanted it to be clean.

Finally I started looking into my digital dash. This led me down a few rabbit holes and taught me a little bit of how much I really don't know about the wiring or computers. I am by no means knowledgeable here so feel free to correct me as I go astray. My plan was to use the Holley EFI 12.3" Standalone Pro Dash, it has multiple screens depending on the application (daily driver vs race), can show tons of data, and also has virtual switches I could utilize to try to keep the dash very clean. However, I ran into a few problems. After talking to a representative at Holley I found out it will not communicate with the stock CAN bus. Didn't know what that was did some research and its basically what gives the screen all the sensor data from the computers. You can however find each sensor wire and wire it up individually. I believe this means that I would not have nearly the monitoring capability compared to something that actually used the CAN bus. To fix this I could buy one of several other kits from Holley (TerminatorX, HP, Dominator), but then I'm basically replacing all the computers and harnesses. Holley actually had a great video of all this being connected with the TerminatorX to a 2015-2015 Coyote, wow there are way more connections than I realized. Not the end of the world, just starts getting into a lot more cost very quickly, and while at times I've already blown up my budget, I'm trying to pull back the reins. I could also change to a different digital dash such as the AEM CD-7 which actually uses the CAN bus. Not as high tech looking, but may end up going this route.

In researching the Holley route I learned that some other companies setups will not utilize the Variable Cam Timing (VCT) the Coyote motors have. Not sure about the Ron Francis body harness, but I don't imagine it controls the VCT, maybe I'm totally mistaken and that's a totally different part. I have also been reading that if you buy a control pack that certain things like the AC compressor wont work, I'm not sure if this is important to me as I added the kit from the order form. My brain is now maxed with options, variables, questions, and pros and cons about my wiring situation. My plan is to continue with the hopes that I can conquer my factory harnesses and look for a new digital dash option. Has anyone else come across any digital dashes in the form of a screen that are worth mentioning?

[edwardb]

Can't help you with the digital dash because I don't have any experience with that. But for sure I'd find something that uses the existing Coyote CAN bus. The Coyote has a bunch of sensors, and wiring up each one and starting to change out parts like you're describing isn't just a rabbit hole. That's a canyon. Two other points where I can give you a definitive answer: The Ron Francis chassis harness has nothing to do with the Coyote variable cam timing. VCT is completely controlled by the Coyote PCM and harness. As you found, some aftermarket setups don't even support the Coyote VCT, which would be a huge mistake IMO. Also, if you're using the Factory Five heat-A/C setup, there's no issue with controlling the A/C with the Coyote. They provide an 05-14 Mustang compressor that doesn't need any computer controls. Their kit has everything you need and it works fine. Mine was in use all summer.

[edwardb]

Remembered that Erik Treves has a digital dash in his Gen 3 Coupe with a Coyote. AiM brand. The famous Hawk Coupe. Shown here. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?22540-Gen-3-quot-Blackhawk-quot-Coupe-Build&p=275363&viewfull=1#post275363. You could PM him for more info.

[Snowman]

I'm planning to use the AEM CD-7 for my build. I did a lot of research on digital dashes and theirs stood out to me as the most attractive based on how it is programed and the fact that there are a ton of templates that can be used as it or modified. You can even take a picture of some vintage gauges or anything you like set that as the background image and then start laying all your data on top of it, needles/pointers, bars, strip charts, you name it. Quite the versatile piece.

Couple gotcha's with it. To use the fuel gage function you'll need another module that converts this from analog to digital data and for the speedo signal you can do either GPS (just like with the speed hut gauge) or another module to get that signal onto the CAN bus. Outside of those everything else on the car can be integrated, turn signals, high beam indicator.

You can also program all of your own cautions and warnings. They can say what ever you want them to and come on with whatever parameter/conditions you set. The software interface is a little engineer-y, but they have a good support network and video series to get you started. If I get to mine before you start/make a decision on how you want to go, I'll share the experience with you.

[Chris @ Forma]

We have also used the the AEM digital dash on a couple of builds and it is fantastic. We didn't use a Ford controller but as I recall it collects all the data off Canbus so it should be quite easy with the Ford Control Pack.

[jamo]

Great feedback! I looked into Aim and AEM further. I hadn't herd of Aim before. I would like to log data, and the GPS speed is nice. I spoke with a representative at AEM about what I was looking for and ended up with the following.

1. 30-5701 - AEM CD-7L Carbon Digital Dash Display (Logging) - CD-7L logging race dash, CAN input only, 7-inch diagonal screen, carbon fiber enclosure, wiring harness included
2. 30-2217 - AEM CD Dash Plug & Play Adapter Harness for OBDII CAN (2008-Up Vehicles)
3. 30-2226 – 6 Channel CAN Sensor Module
4. 30-2206 - AEM Vehicle Dynamics Module (VDM)

I didn't choose the unit with the GPS as #4 has a GPS antenna with added capabilities for monitoring additional things, as well as letting you set lap timers and other whatnot. #3 was required to get the fuel level signal to the unit.

I will be looking into Aim more tomorrow and will let you guys know what I find out.

[jamo]

Spoke with Aim today and although nothing on their website says that they support 2015+ Mustangs the technician assured me they do. He's working on finding the documentation/install instructions and said he would email me when he had it. Here is what looks like will match the AEM setup.

1. MXG 1.2 - Street Icons / CAN Harness
2. GPS08 Module

Aim also allows the option to add a rear camera if that's something your interested in. Thought I had heard that the 65 Coupe is a little hard to see behind, but not sure that warrants a camera.

Also learned that using the ODBII connection can limit the amount of data that can be read/displayed/logged at the same time. Aim recommended connecting directly to the high and low CAN bus signal from the ECU. I am admittedly intimidated by doing that and not sure that I will reap any benefits. Overall both options seem nice, I think that the Aim looks better but I feel like its maybe not as friendly to hook up. The AEM version seems to have videos and is dumbed down enough for me to feel comfortable installing. I have some time to ponder the two before making a decision, and both are relatively close in price. Can anyone else speak to the Aim install? I know Erik Treves did it but he seemed like a bit of an electrical mastermind, that shifter... WOW.

[Logan]

I am using the AiM MXP Strada in my Coupe-R.

There are two wires (twisted pair) coming from the FPCP harness (Ford Performance Control Pack) which output CAN data. Then on the AiM unit, there are two wires for CAN input. So you simply connect the two wires along with power/ground and the hardware side is complete. The software side really boils down to what protocol you choose. AiM has a catalog of hundreds of protocols, and you choose the one that matches your PCM/CANBUS. This is what tells the AiM unit how to decode all the signals, what means what, etc.

In my case, there isn’t a specific protocol for the 2018+ (Gen3 Coyote) FPCP. So I used the protocol from the Gen2 Coyote. Probably 75% of the parameters are the same. I have RPM, throttle position, coolant temp, air temp, among other things. I haven’t gotten around to programming the other streams yet but the capability is there. Can add external analog inputs for stuff you want to display that is NOT on the PCM/CANBUS, like a fuel level sender from your fuel tank.

I had a friend 3D print an enclosure for it and I built it into my custom dash. Pics in my build thread, linked in sig.

[jamo]

I am using the AiM MXP Strada in my Coupe-R.

There are two wires (twisted pair) coming from the FPCP harness (Ford Performance Control Pack) which output CAN data. Then on the AiM unit, there are two wires for CAN input. So you simply connect the two wires along with power/ground and the hardware side is complete. The software side really boils down to what protocol you choose. AiM has a catalog of hundreds of protocols, and you choose the one that matches your PCM/CANBUS. This is what tells the AiM unit how to decode all the signals, what means what, etc.

In my case, there isn’t a specific protocol for the 2018+ (Gen3 Coyote) FPCP. So I used the protocol from the Gen2 Coyote. Probably 75% of the parameters are the same. I have RPM, throttle position, coolant temp, air temp, among other things. I haven’t gotten around to programming the other streams yet but the capability is there. Can add external analog inputs for stuff you want to display that is NOT on the PCM/CANBUS, like a fuel level sender from your fuel tank.

I had a friend 3D print an enclosure for it and I built it into my custom dash. Pics in my build thread, linked in sig.

Well that sounds way easier than I had envisioned. Thanks for the info. I hope to get the harness out and start getting a little more familiar here soon. I was looking at the aim PDM08 possibly as it comes with an option for a 10" screen. But still need to get smarter before pulling that trigger.

[bspaulsen]

Excited to see how the 6R80 install goes. Really glad I reread this thread - knowing that the FP Control Pack (M-6017-M50A) runs the Coyote Gen 2 w/ a 6R80 seamlessly AND supports manual/sport shifting with some simple Pin-Out wiring (https://pbhperformance.com/product/select-shift-pin-out-kit/) greatly simplifies my plans. Are you still sticking with the Lokar shifter? After reviewing the documentation they provide, I noticed it states:

The Lokar Electronic Sport Mode Shifter is designed and intended to be used with an aftermarket Transmission Control Unit (TCU). You will need to follow the instructions for your particular TCU in order to connect the shifter wiring. The Lokar Electronic Sport Mode Shifter may also be used with a factory Powertrain Control Module (PCM), but there are too many different combinations and too many variables for these instructions to cover those possibilities. If you are going to use the Lokar Electronic Sport Mode Shifter with a factory PCM, you will likely need aftermarket tuning software to create a custom program for the PCM, and you will need to create a custom wiring harness to connect the Shifter to your PCM

Have you put any thought into which aftermarket transmission controller you'd use? Or do you plan to finagle the factory PCM?

[Alan_C]

I wish I had seen this thread sooner, good to see another 6R80 user here. There are a few of us using the 6R80. I am a former MK4 owner and continue my presence here on the Factory Five Forums as the Coyote gets more use here than on the Vintage Mustang Forum. For my build, I am retomoding a 70 Mach 1, so a bit different than your Coupe build, however, many of the challenges are the same. Here are a couple ideas to consider.
1. Driveshaft - I had a 3.5" Aluminum driveshaft custom fabricated by Dennys Driveshaft. If you are interested, I can provide pictures and an invoice number so that you can start with a known solution. Length is about the only thing you should have to change.
2. I am using the Ford Performance Controls pack for the 2nd Gen Coyote with the 6R80. PBH sells a wiring kit so that you can hook up to the PCM and use the sport shift function. I am using this together with the Lokar Sport Shifter for the 6R80. A three wire connection to the sport shifter is all that is required. I like the Lokar shifter as it has a manual shifter look but also has the manual shift mode integrated into it.

Good luck with your build, I will be following with interest.

Alan

[jamo]

Excited to see how the 6R80 install goes. Really glad I reread this thread - knowing that the FP Control Pack (M-6017-M50A) runs the Coyote Gen 2 w/ a 6R80 seamlessly AND supports manual/sport shifting with some simple Pin-Out wiring (https://pbhperformance.com/product/select-shift-pin-out-kit/) greatly simplifies my plans. Are you still sticking with the Lokar shifter? After reviewing the documentation they provide, I noticed it states:

The Lokar Electronic Sport Mode Shifter is designed and intended to be used with an aftermarket Transmission Control Unit (TCU). You will need to follow the instructions for your particular TCU in order to connect the shifter wiring. The Lokar Electronic Sport Mode Shifter may also be used with a factory Powertrain Control Module (PCM), but there are too many different combinations and too many variables for these instructions to cover those possibilities. If you are going to use the Lokar Electronic Sport Mode Shifter with a factory PCM, you will likely need aftermarket tuning software to create a custom program for the PCM, and you will need to create a custom wiring harness to connect the Shifter to your PCM

Have you put any thought into which aftermarket transmission controller you'd use? Or do you plan to finagle the factory PCM?

I have done very little research on the shifter to be honest, but that's the plan for now. I have every wiring harness and PCM from the Mustang, so my plan is to use them unless I absolutely cant for now.

[jamo]

I wish I had seen this thread sooner, good to see another 6R80 user here. There are a few of us using the 6R80. I am a former MK4 owner and continue my presence here on the Factory Five Forums as the Coyote gets more use here than on the Vintage Mustang Forum. For my build, I am retomoding a 70 Mach 1, so a bit different than your Coupe build, however, many of the challenges are the same. Here are a couple ideas to consider.
1. Driveshaft - I had a 3.5" Aluminum driveshaft custom fabricated by Dennys Driveshaft. If you are interested, I can provide pictures and an invoice number so that you can start with a known solution. Length is about the only thing you should have to change.
2. I am using the Ford Performance Controls pack for the 2nd Gen Coyote with the 6R80. PBH sells a wiring kit so that you can hook up to the PCM and use the sport shift function. I am using this together with the Lokar Sport Shifter for the 6R80. A three wire connection to the sport shifter is all that is required. I like the Lokar shifter as it has a manual shifter look but also has the manual shift mode integrated into it.

Good luck with your build, I will be following with interest.

Alan

I would be interested in getting the information to begin discussing the driveshaft. Not sure if there is anyone local to me that could do it. I was also going to look into having someone modify my one from the mustang.

[Alan_C]

Here are some pictures of the drive shaft I had Dennys Driveshaft make up for me. If you have have a DS made from the Mustang components, that would likely be cheaper.

https://i.imgur.com/vWYYjzRl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/mUfLoZtl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Ii56cVYl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/phu3na2l.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/PneP76Ml.jpg

The most difficult part of working with Dennys was they were busy. Once I got through and make up the worksheet, it was just about time and money to get it done. The driveshaft manufacturing quality is top notch and fit perfectly.