Coyote Code Help

[Straversi]

Looking for some help with a code I'm getting periodically. Car runs perfectly and comes up to temperature normally. Every once in a while the MIL come on and I get this code and information from my reader.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134705&d=1599154468
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134706&d=1599154478
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134707&d=1599154488
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134708&d=1599154498
Any thoughts or know who I should call?

Thanks
-Steve

[edwardb]

That's a false positive with early Gen 2's that Ford Performance fixed with an updated calibration on the PCM. Initially (several years ago) they would send a device for you to load the updated tune. Now they require you to send in the PCM. They used to give one day turnaround, so wasn't terrible. Hopefully that's still the case. Also assuming you're still running the stock tune? Wouldn't be an option if you're running a custom tune.

[Straversi]

That's a false positive with early Gen 2's that Ford Performance fixed with an updated calibration on the PCM. Initially (several years ago) they would send a device for you to load the updated tune. Now they require you to send in the PCM. They used to give one day turnaround, so wasn't terrible. Hopefully that's still the case. Also assuming you're still running the stock tune? Wouldn't be an option if you're running a custom tune.

Thanks Paul,
Do you consider your Lund tunes to be custom? I had my car tuned but didn't ask for any customization, just wanted to account for the headers and side pipes.

-Steve

[edwardb]

Thanks Paul,
Do you consider your Lund tunes to be custom? I had my car tuned but didn't ask for any customization, just wanted to account for the headers and side pipes.

-Steve

Yes, I consider the Lund tunes to be custom tunes. When you load the tunes from Lund, it first saves the stock tune to a separate file, then flashes the PCM with the new tune. If you have anything other than a base Ford tune, I'd talk to the tuner first before talking to Ford or sending it to them. Likely anything Ford does would overwrite your current setup.

BTW, I remembered someone posting a technical description of what needs to change in the tune to eliminate the bogus P0116 code. Found it here.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?24441-2015-Coyote-Tune&p=279513&viewfull=1#post279513.

"I've been working with Jon over at Lund racing and am very pleased with my tune thus far. We've worked through about 2 dozen data logging sessions to get everything right, including having to send the PCM back to Ford for to fix the P0116 code issue, then having Lund take the fix, go into the binary code and update his tune to replicate the Ford fix. From my notes, something to do with setting ECT_DELTA to 254 and DSDN_CMD_CH and DSDN_DMD_SL to 4095."

Not something most of us mortal builders can use. But maybe helpful for whoever is doing your tune.

[shark92651]

Yes, I consider the Lund tunes to be custom tunes. When you load the tunes from Lund, it first saves the stock tune to a separate file, then flashes the PCM with the new tune. If you have anything other than a base Ford tune, I'd talk to the tuner first before talking to Ford or sending it to them. Likely anything Ford does would overwrite your current setup.

BTW, I remembered someone posting a technical description of what needs to change in the tune to eliminate the bogus P0116 code. Found it here.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?24441-2015-Coyote-Tune&p=279513&viewfull=1#post279513.

"I've been working with Jon over at Lund racing and am very pleased with my tune thus far. We've worked through about 2 dozen data logging sessions to get everything right, including having to send the PCM back to Ford for to fix the P0116 code issue, then having Lund take the fix, go into the binary code and update his tune to replicate the Ford fix. From my notes, something to do with setting ECT_DELTA to 254 and DSDN_CMD_CH and DSDN_DMD_SL to 4095."

Not something most of us mortal builders can use. But maybe helpful for whoever is doing your tune.

I am reading this P0116 code now and have a "cold start" issue where the RPM will drop suddenly after start and then recover. It only happens once and it only happens on a cold start, never warm. I wonder if I am getting the "false positive" or if I have an actual issue and perhaps need to replace the thermostat. Any thoughts?

[edwardb]

I am reading this P0116 code now and have a "cold start" issue where the RPM will drop suddenly after start and then recover. It only happens once and it only happens on a cold start, never warm. I wonder if I am getting the "false positive" or if I have an actual issue and perhaps need to replace the thermostat. Any thoughts?

My experience with the P0116 code never showed any actual symptoms. Just the code itself. So I can't say the P0116 code is related to what you're seeing. But then I honestly don't know for sure. Both Coyotes I've had start at a somewhat high RPM (>1K) then settle down to 700 - 800 in maybe 15-30 seconds. Also with kind of a different sound, which I always interpreted as the cams phasing. I kind of doubt your thermostat has anything to do with what might be happening shortly after a cold start. It takes a while for it to do anything.

[lee82]

My experience with the P0116 code never showed any actual symptoms. Just the code itself. So I can't say the P0116 code is related to what you're seeing. But then I honestly don't know for sure. Both Coyotes I've had start at a somewhat high RPM (>1K) then settle down to 700 - 800 in maybe 15-30 seconds. Also with kind of a different sound, which I always interpreted as the cams phasing. I kind of doubt your thermostat has anything to do with what might be happening shortly after a cold start. It takes a while for it to do anything.

Do you have any data logs by chance? I have the same code pop up from time to time and I just clear it, but I noticed something strange going on in the logs. I noticed that my spark advance will go from say +15 at idle to -5 to 0 degrees and get louder. Almost like the engine is slightly lugged down, and idle RPM stays around 900 or so until I touch the throttle. If I just touch the throttle a tiny bit and let off the idle will go back to 750ish and be very quiet, but within a few seconds go back to the 900 rpm and extra noise, with 0 or even negative advance. I know there are tables in HP Tuners that show the software can modify idle RPM and timing advance based on ECT, so I can't help but wonder if maybe the software glitch is more than just a false positive?

[edwardb]

Do you have any data logs by chance? I have the same code pop up from time to time and I just clear it, but I noticed something strange going on in the logs. I noticed that my spark advance will go from say +15 at idle to -5 to 0 degrees and get louder. Almost like the engine is slightly lugged down, and idle RPM stays around 900 or so until I touch the throttle. If I just touch the throttle a tiny bit and let off the idle will go back to 750ish and be very quiet, but within a few seconds go back to the 900 rpm and extra noise, with 0 or even negative advance. I know there are tables in HP Tuners that show the software can modify idle RPM and timing advance based on ECT, so I can't help but wonder if maybe the software glitch is more than just a false positive?

The P0116 code as a false positive only occurred in early Gen 2 Coyote crate motors using the Ford Performance control pack. I had my PCM reflashed with their updated calibration and it was fixed. All control packs sold not long after that were also updated. So that particular false positive was about five years ago and I haven't heard of any recurrences on Gen 2's or Gen 3's. If you're getting the code in a later version PCM (e.g. after the initial Ford Performance fix) perhaps it is a valid code. But I honestly don't know and haven't seen it in several thousand miles of driving the Gen 2 in a Roadster and the Gen 3 in my current Coupe. Yes I think I have the log files for my Gen 2 tuning with Lund Racing, completed well after the P0116 code issue was resolved. I frankly don't see how they would really help in your situation. They are just parameters of the engine performance with no codes ever logged when they were collected.

[lee82]

The P0116 code as a false positive only occurred in early Gen 2 Coyote crate motors using the Ford Performance control pack. I had my PCM reflashed with their updated calibration and it was fixed. All control packs sold not long after that were also updated. So that particular false positive was about five years ago and I haven't heard of any recurrences on Gen 2's or Gen 3's. If you're getting the code in a later version PCM (e.g. after the initial Ford Performance fix) perhaps it is a valid code. But I honestly don't know and haven't seen it in several thousand miles of driving the Gen 2 in a Roadster and the Gen 3 in my current Coupe. Yes I think I have the log files for my Gen 2 tuning with Lund Racing, completed well after the P0116 code issue was resolved. I frankly don't see how they would really help in your situation. They are just parameters of the engine performance with no codes ever logged when they were collected.

Well, I'm using a 2016 donor motor with the controls pack and still intermittently get that code. It looks like changing the ECT_delta variable to 254, for all intents and purposes, disables the algorithm from being able to throw the code altogether. Not really a "fix", just a workaround so it will never throw the code again. I know for sure my ECT sensor is operating properly, I've logged it several times at this point...

It's like Ford Performance recommending just unplugging the wiring harness connector from the alternator so it stops producing 15.2v constantly. The problem is in the battery temp tables on the ECU, and the fact that the controls pack wiring harness doesn't include a battery temp input, so why leave the tables set up like it does, and why include the connection and logic in place for the alternator? It's just kinda goofy to me...

[edwardb]

It's like Ford Performance recommending just unplugging the wiring harness connector from the alternator so it stops producing 15.2v constantly. The problem is in the battery temp tables on the ECU, and the fact that the controls pack wiring harness doesn't include a battery temp input, so why leave the tables set up like it does, and why include the connection and logic in place for the alternator? It's just kinda goofy to me...

I've heard that recommendation before and it's been discussed at some length in multiple threads. I've done two Coyote builds with the control pack (Gen 2 and Gen 3) and always plug in the alternator control cable for the reasons you mention. I've never had any problem. Voltage typically shows 14.5 or so. Seems high but it's not been a problem in thousands of miles in each. 15.2 in your case is higher than I've experienced. Positive about the accuracy of the gauge? Many others also say they run theirs with the cable plugged in. But some leave it out to, and say it works OK. Your choice. But I'd prefer going with the engineers and the research and testing they've done. Versus the tech answering the support line. Just saying.

[lee82]

I've heard that recommendation before and it's been discussed at some length in multiple threads. I've done two Coyote builds with the control pack (Gen 2 and Gen 3) and always plug in the alternator control cable for the reasons you mention. I've never had any problem. Voltage typically shows 14.5 or so. Seems high but it's not been a problem in thousands of miles in each. 15.2 in your case is higher than I've experienced. Positive about the accuracy of the gauge? Many others also say they run theirs with the cable plugged in. But some leave it out to, and say it works OK. Your choice. But I'd prefer going with the engineers and the research and testing they've done. Versus the tech answering the support line. Just saying.

Yea, it was 15.2v for sure, I double checked it with a voltmeter. I'm about to flash it with these changes:

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