TheMole's Gen 3 Coupe Build

[TheMole]

Well, we are almost through the Engine and the kit is to be here soon, so I think it's time to start this. Here's a listing of what I ordered for the kit:

Type 65 complete kit (Gen 3)
Uncoated chassis (I think I want to drill holes in the frame first, then try to powder coat frame and panels in one shot)
Body cut outs and tracings
GPS Gauges
Coyote Eng. trans Mount
P/S
Front Lower C. Arms -Std Width
Gen 3 A/C
Gen 3 Black Carpet
Side window components
Leather Steering Whl (But I'll check out some quick release options later)
EFI In-Tank Fuel System
Gen 3 Coyote Install kit
12.88 Front and rear Wilwoods (Red calipers)
Battery Cutoff (Inside Vehicle install)
Front and Rear Swaybars
IRS
31 spline 2015 IRS 9.75 Driveshaft
3.55 Center Section
15 IRS Koni Double Adj. Shocks

Some more details about the plan (I've been spying on other builds to gain knowledge here---you know who you are!):

I bought and converted a "slightly used" F150 Coyote -upgraded notable failure points (Oil Pump gear, crank gear), took it down to the crankshaft and examined everything thoroughly. Had it ported and strapped on a 2018 Ported Intake. Should be enough power I think (450-470hp?).

Bought a T56 Magnum from Mike Forte and related components (Ace Flywheel, Clutch, Throw out bearing, QuickTime Bell housing). Mike gave me great advice!
Ordered Gas-N headers and side pipes (polished Stainless) from a nice gentleman named "Georgie". Although they cost more they are handmade and in the pictures they look outstanding.
Going to order Corbeau 64901FBS seats (as soon as they come off backorder -October?).
Specialty Power aftermarket wiper kit with a Cole-Hersee switch (read a build thread and am trying to follow it)
American Racing VN407 polished wheels with spinners (a contact at WheelPros actually pushed through this new part number for my order)
For color I'm thinking Traditional Blue or Charcoal Grey at this point (Edwardb's candy apple red, however, looks awesome!).

Who am I and what do I blame this mid-life crisis on?

I have been working in an office for a long time. Did some wrenching from my late teens into my 20s but that all stopped when I got out of college. Always wanted to find a project to return to this because it challenged me and gave me a feeling of self-reliance. I also felt a sense of accomplishment when I was able to put everything back together and get the car running again. But a kit car would be a major step up as far as a commitment in three areas (time, $, expertise). Frankly, I wasn't sure I had the kahones to jump into this abyss...

Then I found myself struggling with the COVID "social isolation" situation. My wife and I were used to getting out on the weekends and now we couldn't really go anywhere. This was making me stir-crazy. Where I live (California) the lock-down started fairly early and is just now flirting with being reduced. I needed something to get me creating, thinking, solving again. I also am lucky to have a very good friend who has been restoring classic cars for a long time professionally who was similarly interested and agreed to help build it (my "backyard" mechanic experience as noted above is pretty dated). His involvement also made sense from both build quality and speed perspectives (I've seen builds that could have been done better and others that take f-o-r-e-v-e-r). I then started following some build threads and became familiar with how close this FFR "club" is. It's seems ok to ask naive questions (as long as you can take a steer to educate yourself and "go read this thread"), and the expectation seems to be to share what you find. This culture of discovering new ways to solve problems and learn from each other is pretty strong. So I mustered enough confidence (maybe just enough!) to start this and with my buddy there for the more complex mechanical and fabrication needs I was in. I searched for and found a slightly used F150 engine, started scheming about what I wanted in my kit after reading lots of build threads and watched a lot of Engine builds on youtube.

Bon voyage!



Stuff I learned by using an F150 engine

1. Do a lot of research and be specific. There are plenty of "experts" out there that really don't know the nuances of your build. Try to only listen to those that have actually done exactly what you are trying to do (speculation will cost you!).
2. Somewhat related: Don't rely on folks that work for companies that sell you parts. Rely more on the guys that have actually done the work. I was misled several times by employees of Ford Dealers and Ford Performance. I take the blame for this because I did not emphasize(and re-emphasize) the specifics of my build and calibrate their level of knowledge.
3. Test to see if the "Mustang" parts are really different. For my engine, the "Mustang" valve springs turned out to be the same as the F150 valve springs, even though my internet search indicated otherwise.
4. Take your time and have fun! Remember that this isn't a sprint, it's a marathon!

Here are the main differences I found between the F150 and Mustang versions of the 2015 Coyote engine (as well as some judgements I made):

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140259&d=1609650039
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https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143709&d=1614833204 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143720&d=1614833904 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143721&d=1614834284 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143722&d=1614834544

[Player 2]

Good Luck with the build! Look forward to seeing how your F-150 coyote swap goes as I'm in a similar boat.

[Straversi]

Congratulations and welcome. Sounds like you are off to a good start. Thanks for posting.
-Steve

[Logan]

Welcome! I’m building a Gen3 Coupe-R and know the meaning of “Sprint vs. Marathon”. I’m not building the car with a deadline, so that ensures things are done right at each step. But does take longer to complete. I’m over halfway now, but haven’t touched the car for a couple weeks due to other projects. That’s okay, it’ll be there when I turn my focus back to it.

Lots of people will be watching your F150 solutions, as they are a cheaper donor engine, and making them work could be a cost savings in many cases. Good luck!

[TheMole]

Dyno or no Dyno
While I wait for the engine to be finished I thought I'd think ahead. I'm thinking that a Dyno session might be a good (but not necessarily inexpensive) idea. Here's my reasoning:

1. Want to make sure we can maximize our chances of optimizing engine performance.
2. We haven't run this engine yet and have changed some internal parts (and only have "hand cranked" it to help ensure we were correct with our timing set up-probably a small concern at this point since we could hear and feel the compression as we cranked it).
3. I think I want to see about running an E85 tune as well as a pump gas tune (could the dyno shop assist with getting this right?).
4. Just curious as to what this config. will produce from a HP and Torque perspective.

Did some research and ordered higher flow injectors (part #M-9593-LU47). I watched lots of YouTube vids about the Lund E85 tune and this looks like a winner. I'm also thinking that since stock 2015 Mustangs appear to be able to run E85, the FFR Fuel pump (255LPH Walbro) pumps at the same rate should be sufficient (I guess we will find out!).

Also, I did find and order the oil pickup for the Moroso pan. Moroso offers one for gen1 and gen2s (part# 24570). Since I have a Gen2 this should fit. I first looked at Edwardb's build (he has a gen3 Coyote that has a different pan config) and thought I would have to fab one.

Kit Delivery
..Still waiting for enough "West Coast" orders to justify Stewart to transport the kit out to me..not a big deal since I'm also waiting on the engine build, seats, and the wheels.

[edwardb]

Also, I did find and order the oil pickup for the Moroso pan. Moroso offers one for gen1 and gen2s (part# 24570). I first looked at Edwardb's build (he has a gen3 Coyote that has a different pan config) and thought I would have to fab one.

I'm assuming (hoping) this is the one you ordered for your Gen 3 Coyote: https://www.moroso.com/oil-pump-pick-up-ford-coyote-gen-3-gt350-for-kit-car24577/. It's listed in the Factory Five Gen 3 Coyote instructions. https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Coyote-Gen-3-Fitment-roadster-rev-1B.pdf. That part wasn't available when I did my Gen 3 Coyote build. I was too early. Ended up custom like you saw in my build thread. But no longer necessary.

[TheMole]

I'm assuming (hoping) this is the one you ordered for your Gen 3 Coyote: https://www.moroso.com/oil-pump-pick-up-ford-coyote-gen-3-gt350-for-kit-car24577/. It's listed in the Factory Five Gen 3 Coyote instructions. https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Coyote-Gen-3-Fitment-roadster-rev-1B.pdf. That part wasn't available when I did my Gen 3 Coyote build. I was too early. Ended up custom like you saw in my build thread. But no longer necessary.

I have a Gen2 engine and so I think it takes the earlier intake tube (24570). By the way, nice job on the thinking and set up for your Gen 3's intake!!!

[edwardb]

I have a Gen2 engine and so I think it takes the earlier intake tube (24570). By the way, nice job on the thinking and set up for your Gen 3's intake!!!

Thanks. Sorry, I mis-read your initial post describing your build. Then later you describe the F150 engine. So my mistake. Both Gen 1 and Gen 2 used the same Moroso 24570 oil pan pickup. You should be OK.

[Snowman]

Kit Delivery
..Still waiting for enough "West Coast" orders to justify Stewart to transport the kit out to me..not a big deal since I'm also waiting on the engine build, seats, and the wheels.

I recently ordered a kit. The completion date is probably a little too far out to help your situation, but glad to hear another West Coast build will be in progress soon!

I'm also planning to do an F-150 engine, but I'm going to try the Gen 3 F-150 motor. I'm looking forward to the challenge!

Cheers,
Patrick

[TheMole]

I recently ordered a kit. The completion date is probably a little too far out to help your situation, but glad to hear another West Coast build will be in progress soon!

I'm also planning to do an F-150 engine, but I'm going to try the Gen 3 F-150 motor. I'm looking forward to the challenge!

Cheers,
Patrick

Great! I bought my F150 Gen 2 in May. At that time you could get one with low miles for about 3k. I would have opted for the Gen 3 if I could have found one for a similar price. Let's share notes during our builds!

[TheMole]

Just received the wheels I ordered. A contact at Wheelpros was able to land me some VN407 American Racing Wheels with the proper offset that were completely polished. They look great! Did some research on tires and decided to go with the Yokohama Advan AO52s. These should really stick to the road.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143723&d=1614834811 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143724&d=1614835068

[David Ferguson]

Dyno or no Dyno
While I wait for the engine to be finished I thought I'd think ahead. I'm thinking that a Dyno session might be a good (but not necessarily inexpensive) idea. Here's my reasoning:

1. Want to make sure we can maximize our chances of optimizing engine performance.
2. We haven't run this engine yet and have changed some internal parts (and only have "hand cranked" it to help ensure we were correct with our timing set up-probably a small concern at this point since we could hear and feel the compression as we cranked it).
3. I think I want to see about running an E85 tune as well as a pump gas tune (could the dyno shop assist with getting this right?).
4. Just curious as to what this config. will produce from a HP and Torque perspective.

Did some research and ordered higher flow injectors (part #M-9593-LU47). I watched lots of YouTube vids about the Lund E85 tune and this looks like a winner. I'm also thinking that since stock 2015 Mustangs appear to be able to run E85, the FFR Fuel pump (255LPH Walbro) pumps at the same rate should be sufficient (I guess we will find out!).

I don't know where you are located, but I have a Dynapack hub dyno in Paso Robles and could certainly run the car, and maybe assist with the tuning.

[TheMole]

Hi David,

I won't have the engine in the car for a few months (minimum) so I was looking for just an engine dyno.

Funny I was just up there a couple of weeks ago wine tasting!

[David Ferguson]

Well, when you are ready, it can certainly be tuned in the car, with the exhaust you are actually using.

[TheMole]

Well, when you are ready, it can certainly be tuned in the car, with the exhaust you are actually using.

Got it. I grew up in Los Osos and have fond memories of the Central Coast.

[TheMole]

Kit arrived last Monday. Went through the parts boxes...Whew! That was daunting as in most cases I had to identify parts from only a long description list and Part number on the POL. David B. at Factory five was more than helpful (as well as contributors on another thread) and we mocked up the Engine and Tranny over last weekend. Not much has happened yet as we await the first post- delivery shipment, but I have included pictures of:

-My friend Carlos building the shed where the build is taking place
136545

-The engine sitting in the car (fits but not with a lot of room on the sides)

136546


-The Trans mount fitted (as I read from other builds, this required minor grinding but wasn't too hard)

136547

-The Bell Housing hanging below the oil Pan (no bueno as this will definitely catch on driveways and speedbumps. Got to trim this). I'm also contemplating fabbing a skid plate.

136548

I also included a picture of my first passenger. She supervises our work and her labor rate is reasonable.




136549

Next steps include fitting the Rear end to the Tranny (waiting for the part to get here on Friday), taking the rear part of the shell off, removing all the panels (after tracing them) and sending the frame and identified pieces to get Powdercoated. By the way, the Corbeaus look phenomenal and fit perfectly (Thanks Edwardb!).

[Logan]

Looking good Mole! Can you please post what you wheel and tire specs are? Size, offset, etc?

[TheMole]

Looking good Mole! Can you please post what you wheel and tire specs are? Size, offset, etc?

Tire Sizes: Frt -275/35/18
Rear -315/30/18

Wheels and offsets: Frt: 18X9 Offset: ET24
Rear: 18X11 Offset ET 24

Note: I haven't mounted them yet (hoping to get the suspension and brakes done soon) and got the offsets from the Wilwood brake diagrams...

[TheMole]

Well, we got the body off the car.


136632

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Now the question is: Since I didn't opt for frame powdercoating on the kit order and I know that many of the panels can be fitted with the body off the car, does it make sense to try to fit and powdercoat these (panels that I can fit powdercoated now along with frame and other pieces) now, or, should I Powdercoat the Frame and other needed pieces first, then take my time putting all the panels on the car and powdercoat as I go (in batches)?

PS -I am wearing my "non-FFR frame powdercoat" duncecap with pride!!!

Thanks.

[edwardb]

Now the question is: Since I didn't opt for frame powdercoating on the kit order and I know that many of the panels can be fitted with the body off the car, does it make sense to try to fit and powdercoat these (panels that I can fit powdercoated now along with frame and other pieces) now, or, should I Powdercoat the Frame and other needed pieces first, then take my time putting all the panels on the car and powdercoat as I go (in batches)?

If you're not planning on making any mods to the frame (one of the reasons people do their own powder coating) I'd recommend getting it done now. Would be a good time to go over the frame and knock off the splatter and generally clean things up. Something Factory Five doesn't always do 100%. Once back, then starting fitting and drilling your panels. Then have them powder coated before finally installing. The Coupe also has a bunch of metal fabricated parts that you may want to powder coat. Door frames and hinges, hood hinges, hatch hinges, transmission mount, body mounts, etc. Make the batches as big as possible. Helps the cost a lot. I did my whole build with basically two batches.

[TheMole]

With Edwardb's guidance, here is powdercoat batch 1! I used p43 in the assembly manual as an initial guide. However, in my manual there are still parts listed there from previous generations of the Coupe (so you wont find part numbers in your kit for some of these). 136641

I'll strip the panels from the coupe, look for welding splatter to clear off and get this stuff Powdercoated. Thinking either black or gun metal grey.[URL="https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140247&d=1609648500"]

[TheMole]

So we attempted to label, then remove all the panels...Only cut myself once... sheet metal is thin (and sharp) and we are now joking that there is no way the cockpit won't be a giant echo chamber! Panel diagram on p49 of assembly manual is helpful. Remembering which panel is on top and how they fit will be key. Took some photos to assist reassembly (hope I took the right ones). Now on to choosing which rivets, which seam prep (silicone or other), and then just waiting for the door frames to get here so we can send out for the first Powdercoat batch as the Corbeaus sit outside seeming to be waiting anxiously.




136792

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136795

136796

[TheMole]

Removed the Engine and Tranny last night. Car is on Quickjacks. Those are very easy to use and give you lots of room to work. Initial examination of the welds and splatter on frame (need to be removed to improve quality of powdercoat and fit) revealed a pretty good job at Factory Five. No major issues to be dealt with observed (but we will look at it more closely in the light of day).

With Engine and tranny mocked (and having fit the tranny mounting plate on the frame) the next stop on this journey is powdercoating!

Pre Engine/Tranny Removal-Front view
136856


Bare Frame -Rear view (panels piled on top)
136857

Side View:
136858

Engine out now (Whew!)
136859

[TheMole]

Went out yesterday morning trying to find a powdercoater. Did some calls before but for them "seeing is believing" I guess. Went to two relatively small shops who stated over the phone that they could handle the frame(had a big enough oven).. Upon measuring and inspecting the frame the first two provided very high estimates...like up to 6 times the FFR price. Then I called a larger firm that had experience with large jobs like the frame. Gave me a great quote over the phone and did it in one day!

Preloading of trailer:
137150

Trailer loaded and ready to go:
137151

Fresh out of powdercoat (drying in the sun):
137152

Box of smaller items -prior to:
137335

Box of smaller items after (including two additional pieces removed from the rear of the frame):
137334

[TheMole]

Upgraded to Moog tie rod ends (Part # ES2150RL)and Howe Racing Ball Joints (Part # 22320S). Both great quality products (Following Edwardb's lead here)! Brakes ready to go but waiting for shocks to arrive to complete both sides. "GasN" Headers came in and look great!


Front wheel area pics w/o brakes and shocks:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140255&d=1609649108 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140254&d=1609649107



Header pics:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140252&d=1609649095 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140253&d=1609649102


138162

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Moog and Howe with Energy Suspension Boots:

138169

138170

[TheMole]

Being a California car, I don't expect to have a lot of concerns about rust. However, since I opted for Black Powdercoat for the frame if it's not too much trouble I want to make parts color match if possible. The Rear End came in black and looks to be well protected, but the knuckles and hubs are very "light" in contrast and the hubs are metal so they will rust eventually (Knuckles being aluminum). Watched a couple of videos as to how to apply POR 15 and gave it a whirl. Four step process including the top coat (which aids against discoloring due to UV exposure). It looks great, and if it is as tough on these parts as it was on my hands (I briefly took the gloves off to touch up a couple of areas-Not recommended!) it will be there a loooong time! This stuff once it sets has to wear off, so you will be hiding your hands for at least 4 days if you don't wear gloves the entire time (Good thing COVID has suppressed the handshake ritual). Paint is thin and little spots fly.

Knuckle with POR 15
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140251&d=1609649095


Knuckle, Hubs and Driveshaft with POR
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140249&d=1609648532

Rear Hubs
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140247&d=1609648500

CV Axles
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140250&d=1609649066

The "No Gloves Look" (keep your gloves on!)
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140248&d=1609648528

[coup in australia]

Hey
My kit arrives January so I am following you to avoid mistakes ;) keep up the great posts

[TheMole]

Hey
My kit arrives January so I am following you to avoid mistakes ;) keep up the great posts

There are some great builds on this site. I am just reading and stumbling along! Good luck with your upcoming build!

[TheMole]

Looks like some adjustment is needed here!!! This is the FFR accel pedal with the Wilwood pedals..

Question: has anyone else run into this? If so, what did you do to get better alignment?


Thanks

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140261&d=1609652485

[Bob Brandle]

Mole,
There are many posts and discussions in this forum about the Coyote accelerator pedal location in the Gen 3 Coupe with many repositioning solutions. Suggest you do some searching for the posts.

Just one suggestion among many is mine:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=113987&d=1567997308



https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=113986&d=1567997308

[TheMole]

Thanks Bob!

Your's looks like an easy and nice looking solution.

I also was directed to the Coyote Install Instructions where it has a good solution as well.


As my (adult) son would tell me: RTFM Dad!

[TheMole]

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=142906&d=1613680413


Here's the winner of the "Canister - style and in-stock Fuel Filter" contest!!! I liked the look of the Trick Flow better but this one was in stock (and it's going to be hidden from view anyway)..almost exactly the same size and function. This is the Aeromotive SS Series AEI-12317.

Still waiting on parts...getting a little antsy with the rear wheel to frame distance (but can't tell if this will be a problem until we get the shocks mounted)...

[TheMole]

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143506&d=1614482350


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=142907&d=1613680476

Purchased Brock Racing side mirrors as I just didn't like the ones with the kit, the Russ Thompson turn signal kit (thanks Russ!), and an NRG quick release. Bottom pic shows the driver's end of the Thompson Kit and also has the NRG (part SRK-400BK) quick release unboxed.

Just got panels for the front back from powdercoating so I should have some good progress pics soon.

[jdm65]

Nice work!

How do you think your wheels will fit against the body of the car? I have the same width but a much more aggressive offset and by my calculations will still need a bit of a spacer.

[TheMole]

Nice work!

How do you think your wheels will fit against the body of the car? I have the same width but a much more aggressive offset and by my calculations will still need a bit of a spacer.

I'm not sure. I need to get my shocks installed and see if there is a problem with vertical travel first (do the rear tires hit the frame under maximum depression?). If this is ok, then it looks like I will be fine. If not, then I'll have to move them out a little (and then all bets are off regarding fit against the body). I might opt for flaring the rear fiberglass a little to provide adequate space. I really like my wheels so I don't want to replace these...but this is how it goes right? Make one decision and then you are forced into others...

UPDATE: Shocks came in and are now installed. The top of the tire when fully compressed is within a hair of the frame...therefore, I ordered some 1" Eibach spacers...

[jdm65]

I see! Definitely looking forward to seeing how they look on the car - that polish looks great!

Like you I also have an F150 motor for my Coupe (though mine is a Gen1) so I'm really looking forward to following this haha!

Great work!!

[TheMole]

I see! Definitely looking forward to seeing how they look on the car - that polish looks great!

Like you I also have an F150 motor for my Coupe (though mine is a Gen1) so I'm really looking forward to following this haha!

Great work!!

With a Gen 1 Coyote I don't think you need to change out the cams or the harness...I think the firing order is the same..if so lucky you!!!!

I'll be watching your build. good luck!!

[TheMole]

Here's a video of the build as of now:

https://www.facebook.com/614039641/videos/10159243955794642/


Just got the shocks today! I will have a roller soon!

[TheMole]

Here's a picture:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=145769&d=1617760900


I came across one of these online and they are very nice looking (my kid said "Bada$$"). You can get them in a few styles -one style looks very close to Webers and (at least theoretically) should be much less temperamental and easier to drive when not flooring it. They aren't inexpensive, but the look is awesome! I have traded messages with a vendor who is a Borla dealer and it looks like it could really dress up the Coyote and could increase HP some. However, I also did some reading on the other forum and it sounds like some folks had some difficulty tuning these.

Since it's a significant investment I thought I would ask around to see if anyone else has experience with this setup and can offer advice. Key questions:

1. How "driveable" is this set up?
2. How easy are they to tune?
3. Any other advice, comments?


Thanks!

[Bluemont]

I'll drop in an answer for number 3, hopefully it is helpful...

I haven't used the Borla setup. But I have used other aftermarket EFI setups. I have found that they usually have some kind of quirk you have to live with. Usually you can get it pretty close. I had a MSD setup that ran great except for a slight flat spot right off of idle. I could never quite get that to go away. So I would say no matter what, if you go for an aftermarket setup, prepare yourself to potentially live with a strange quirk somewhere (or worse). If you're ok with that, go for it because it is bada$$. If not, you might want to enjoy it as is for a while first.

[Snowman]

I have "fantasy" built a Coyote in my head with the Borla setup. Bada$$ is simply the only way to describe it.

I also have dreams of doing a 427 FE with the Borla setup, now that would be really something to shoehorn in either a coupe or cobra!!

[TheMole]

I have "fantasy" built a Coyote in my head with the Borla setup. Bada$$ is simply the only way to describe it.

I also have dreams of doing a 427 FE with the Borla setup, now that would be really something to shoehorn in either a coupe or cobra!!

You bring up another point: Depending upon the setup (with air cleaner), I might have to alter the hood a little...orrrrr...

146642


This one will fit!

[TheMole]

Getting the Corbeau in the right place on the driver's side is taking some adjustment. I'd like the steering wheel directly in line with the center of my chest (and not on my chest), so we are moving the steering column in and fiddling with the alignment to get it as close to "on center" as possible. Here's where we are now with the seat almost at the farthest left to still fit inside, and the steering column about two inches or so off center.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=148157&d=1621485838 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=148155&d=1621485776"] https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=148156&d=1621485807"]


We also tilted the seat back a bit which added needed space and comfort. Carlos is fabbing a piece to slide under the seat adj. slider to make this permanent while hoping to keep some adjustment available.

In other "news", the Borla induction unit is out of ceracoating and looks fabulous. Should go well with the black powdercoated engine panels and coil covers:


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=148154&d=1621485300"]

[jdm65]

Oh! I actually have experience with ITB setups!

1) The drivability of ITBs is directly related to how well they are tuned. The setup alone isn't going to be a hassle, as an example, the E92 M3 is also an ITB'd V8!
2) Its really crucial to use a very specific method of tuning to get the tune correct. Most aftermarket systems rely on manifold pressure to act as their load source, but with ITBs, this just isn't viable - the readings the ECU will get from even a common plenum chamber like the Borla system isn't reliable enough. The way to do this is with a combined Alpha-N (throttle position vs RPM) and Speed Density (manifold pressure) system that uses SD on the low end and AN on the top end. It's a bit confusing to understand, but it would probably be best to find a tuner familiar with this kinda setup.
3) they sound great, enjoy!! One thing I wanted to add is that the length of the velocity stacks have an impact on the overall power curve of the engine - longer stacks produce more bottom end torque, and shorter stacks will flow better at high RPM.

I want to mention I am by no means an expert or anything - far far from that, I've just had experience street tuning my own ITB setups myself. All of this should be discussed with a well-versed tuner. But I will say that ITB's and drivability, reliability, and overall enjoyment rely 100% on the proper setup of the system and most of all, the tune.

I'm really looking forward to your build though! The quad webers were originally a must for me when planning the car out due to the raw sound, but I've settled for an ITB Coyote like you as a middle ground haha.

edit: just wanted to add a bit more information as well: Mixed "ITB mode" alpha N/speed density maps are relatively uncommon, so not a lot of ECU's/EFI systems support this. I haven't looked into the Holley system, but I don't think you'll be able to run the Ford Performance Controls pack. I'm running a Link G4+ Thunder on my setup which does support this! I believe AEM Infinity, ecumaster, or any of the more modern standalone systems will work, but for pretty much all of them you're gonna have to have a custom harness made.

Also, I have been told the Borla setup fits in a Gen3 without issues. Have no idea how true that is haha. You'll also need an airbox (if you'd like) - Pipercross and ITG in the UK make really great ITB or "eight stack" setups.

Hope that helps!! I'm a massive fan of ITBs overall, and I have plans to ITB every single one of my cars, so I'm more than happy to talk about them haha. I'm also putting together a Gen3 with an F150 Coyote with ITBs!

[TheMole]

Thanks for the info Jdm. I did some research regarding my setup as well. I was originally a little hesitant to go this route having read a lot of unsatisfied comments about ITBs (even Dave S. warned against using them). So I called Borla and was referred to a couple of folks that they recommend, and chose one of them. The referral told me that there are 3 failure points for these, and making the wrong move with any of them will "deep-six" this method: 1. You have to get a quality ITB. 2. You have to get an ECU that is built for it. 3. You have to get it tuned by someone who really knows what they are doing.... I will research the ECU I have on back-order and see if it conforms to your guidance and switch out if necessary. As for the controls pack, I sold that a couple of weeks ago (the ECU kits I have reviewed come with what you need here-as well as the engine harness)..

I am following your very ingenious build-looks like you are having a blast!

[jdm65]

Oh, that's a great way to go about doing it haha! Sounds like you're well sorted already, fantastic!

I think we both have the "quality ITB setup" part down - it's why I opted for an OEM setup instead of the very inexpensive speedmaster setup haha.

Which ECU did you go with? When I was shopping it was very hard to find the combination of VCT control AND "ITB Mode"

Also - off topic but, when you lifted your body up, were those points strong enough? Thinking about storing my body hanging above the other stall and wanted to make sure it was rigid enough haha.

[TheMole]

Oh, that's a great way to go about doing it haha! Sounds like you're well sorted already, fantastic!

I think we both have the "quality ITB setup" part down - it's why I opted for an OEM setup instead of the very inexpensive speedmaster setup haha.

Which ECU did you go with? When I was shopping it was very hard to find the combination of VCT control AND "ITB Mode"

Also - off topic but, when you lifted your body up, were those points strong enough? Thinking about storing my body hanging above the other stall and wanted to make sure it was rigid enough haha.


Just got off the phone with Holley. With the Dominator series they can adjust both Alpha N and Speed Density. I currently have part number 550-625N ordered (not a Dominator, but Alpha N is still adjustable) but that could change after I discuss with the tuner....

As to your "off the topic" question, the body was hung by using rope as supports. It worked fine. (If that doesn't answer your question, please clarify what you mean by "points")...

[q4stix]

146642
This one will fit!

I know I've been cryptic in my build thread at times, but I sure missed you already bought an ITB setup haha. That's awesome! I'll be interested to hear your impressions of it all and how the tuning goes too.

[jdm65]

Awesome!! That's really nice as the plug and play harness saves a lot of headache haha.

I just meant the pressure points on the roof where it's being lifted from. I have to store mine overhead for an extended period of time and I just don't want to crack it.

[TheMole]

Awesome!! That's really nice as the plug and play harness saves a lot of headache haha.

I just meant the pressure points on the roof where it's being lifted from. I have to store mine overhead for an extended period of time and I just don't want to crack it.

I'll take a picture of the body when it is hanging again, but in reality it is pretty light so we are not anticipating any cracking issues (just use at least a few contact points). I also talked to an expert on Holley EFIs for Borlas...he said that the one I ordered can indeed be tweaked for both sources if needed but the advanced oxygen sensor in the "N" Holleys should allow for a good, accurate tune...in his opinion...

[TheMole]

I know I've been cryptic in my build thread at times, but I sure missed you already bought an ITB setup haha. That's awesome! I'll be interested to hear your impressions of it all and how the tuning goes too.

I'll let you know. The guy I ended up buying the ITBs from said that he only trusts 2 people in California to do it right...just so happens that one of them is five miles from the build so I got lucky. Probably a month or so away from this but I'll update after. Prestige Motors in North Carolina has a video about adjusting the ITBs and claims it can be "set it and forget it"...we'll see!

[TheMole]

Idle hands....While waiting for the ECU to arrive I found a funny shift-knob with the correct pattern for the T56 Magnum...



https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=148683&d=1622317925

[Skuzzy]

That's funny! :)

[TheMole]

Initial fitment of wheels ended in very concerning proximity to frame. That is a very thin yellow strip there...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=148836&d=1622488381



So we measured the distances btw the wheels and the fenders and thought that I could add 1 inch spacers...then put the body on to ensure everything was kosher...Now it looks like this!!



https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=148832&d=1622487627 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=148829&d=1622487627


Toe-in adjustment definiitely needed, but even with that, the ruler when held flat against the wheel looks to be outside the fenderl....I'm hoping that fixing the toe-in will help...but probably looking at cutting the spacers a bit, or I'll be flaring the fenders...

[Logan]

18x11" +24 offset rear should fit perfectly fine with the right spacer. Is your current fitment issue the same on both sides? Make sure the body is centered left to right.

The FFR Halibrand wheels are 18x11" +12 offset and it is common to use a 1" to 1.25" spacer with them. This results in an effective offset of -13.4 to -19.75mm. For your wheels to get to that offset range, you'd need a LARGER spacer than the 1" one you currently have, not a smaller one. (1.5" to 1.75" spacer roughly).

Also, adjusting the toe will not change the amount of poke (wheel/tire outside the fenders). Camber will have a much more direct affect on poke.... as you increase negative camber, the top of the tire will lean in towards the center of the car, thus making the top of the tire move further under the fender. I suggest leaving your wheels installed with the current spacers and having a full alignment done.

[TheMole]

18x11" +24 offset rear should fit perfectly fine with the right spacer. Is your current fitment issue the same on both sides? Make sure the body is centered left to right.

The FFR Halibrand wheels are 18x11" +12 offset and it is common to use a 1" to 1.25" spacer with them. This results in an effective offset of -13.4 to -19.75mm. For your wheels to get to that offset range, you'd need a LARGER spacer than the 1" one you currently have, not a smaller one. (1.5" to 1.75" spacer roughly).

Also, adjusting the toe will not change the amount of poke (wheel/tire outside the fenders). Camber will have a much more direct affect on poke.... as you increase negative camber, the top of the tire will lean in towards the center of the car, thus making the top of the tire move further under the fender. I suggest leaving your wheels installed with the current spacers and having a full alignment done.

Thanks for the info and suggestions. We mounted the tires and compressed the shocks in the first pic..so I am thinking that the 1 inch spacers should provide the additional level of safety needed (but I could be wrong here). I'm thinking the toe adj.will align the wheel with the side of the body...as of now there is a lot of toe-in (RHS rear wheel appears to be turning left) and this is making the rear of the tire "way" outside the fender, although the front of the wheels are much closer. Negative camber will definitely help fit at the top ("poke" as you put it)...I don't know how much I can get away with....But to address your first point..gonna put on the left rear tire to ensure the body is centered (I have the tires stored inside on the third floor and they are bagged-so I'll get schlepping!)...and good idea to put everything on and get an alignment..measure twice :cool:

[Logan]

Hey Mole, did you ever get your wheel fitment solved?

[TheMole]

Nope. Not yet.

The car has been moved to a new location and is now awaiting the construction of a large garage....so it's just sitting there right now with not enough space to work on it...total bummer for me but it's probably going to be there until March with no further work until then.