Just the Basics Build (Brake lines)

[rthomas98]

Htu

[Jeff Kleiner]

That's an excellent combination! Use a 3.55 in the rear along with a 2.95 first gear in that T5 and it'll be a hoot :)

Jeff

[bldr.rob]

Congratulations and welcome! Lots of great folks here to help answer any questions.

[Jeff Kleiner]

That is the plan. Glad to hear it will still be fun. Was a little worried because I see everyone building these fire breathing monsters.

You want to hear the ugly truth (which will get some panties in a knot)...lots of guys find out that once you get past bragging rights at the cruise in some of those "fire breathers" can be kind of hard to live with and aren't so much fun afterall ;)

Jeff

[Presto51]

You want to hear the ugly truth (which will get some panties in a knot)...lots of guys find out that once you get past bragging rights at the cruise in some of those "fire breathers" can be kind of hard to live with and aren't so much fun afterall ;)

Jeff

But, But It goes to 11! Next you'll tell us less cowbells :cool:

Ron

[GoDadGo]

You want to hear the ugly truth (which will get some panties in a knot)...lots of guys find out that once you get past bragging rights at the cruise in some of those "fire breathers" can be kind of hard to live with and aren't so much fun afterall ;)

Jeff

I don't have a fire-breather, more like a fire-burper (450-Plus HP) so I've got the rev-limiter set at 4,500 which settles the car quickly.
Wheelspin with the rev-limiter at 6,500 occurs in the first four gears so my goal is to learn how to drive the car 300-400 RPMs at a time.

https://youtu.be/9WEe6-wdNtA

Horsepower to weight is what you need to look at so even a 300-HP 302 will equate 7.5 Lbs for every 1.0 HP.
In 1st gear you will be able to smoke the tires while still getting some serious wheel spin in 2nd gear too.

Welcome Aboard!

[cnutting]

Nice combo. I'm running a hair over 340hp on my little 289, and quite happy with it. Very well behaved around town and goes fast when I want it to.

[Traveller]

Hello from the Grand Rapids area and congrats on the pending arrival of a new adventure! Where in michigan are you?

[JB in NOVA]

Sounds like a great plan. I also had the goal of keeping things simple (especially since this is my first build). But I keep adding things along the way . . . Anyway, I look forward to your build.

[Kodiak]

Hello from Pinckney my completion date is the 23rd so hopefully both cars will be on the same truck.

[TMartinLVNV]

So got it out of the box and on jack stands. 134084

One of these works really well for being able to move it around the garage until you are able to install it. The pumpkin fits nicely in the middle and is very stable.

https://www.amazon.com/WEN-721830-1000-Pound-Capacity-30-Inch/dp/B07DB3XB21/ref=lp_256347011_1_4?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1598163498&sr=1-4

[GoDadGo]

If you want and/or find you need additional pinion adjustment, then this upgrade may be of interest to you.

https://www.spohn.net/shop/Factory-Five-Racing-MK3-MK4-Roadster/Adjustable-Rear-Lower-Control-Arms-with-Del-Sphere-Pivot-Joints.html

These will improve articulation while allowing you to really dial in the rear end location and pinion angle adjustment.

NOTE:... I had the folks at Spohn build me set of shortened fixed units since I didn't want and/or need additional adjustment and am happy with the results.
.............I did this to better center the wheels within the wheel arches and to aid a bit my pinion adjustment.
.............This wasn't a big deal since I was had to get a custom driveshaft made anyway.

[FFinisher]

You want to hear the ugly truth (which will get some panties in a knot)...lots of guys find out that once you get past bragging rights at the cruise in some of those "fire breathers" can be kind of hard to live with and aren't so much fun afterall ;)

Jeff
Exactly correct- I have 42000 miles on my old pushrod 302- t5 with 355’s.

Not many of these “fire breathers” have many miles on them.

Only thing I may suggest if you are
Going with standard size brakes is to go with power brakes.

It will be blast to drive and super civilized.

And yes, I do love Coyotes if the budget allows. But I do not consider it a “fire breather”😎

[Papa]

The axle has arrived. Hope I uploaded the image right first time doing this.

134041

I'll get it out of the crate and on stands tomorrow.

Hey, that looks just like the first part of my build to arrive a couple of years ago! As Jeff said, you don't need mega horsepower to have fun in these cars, and I have the most fun just cruising and soaking in all the waves, shouts, thumbs-up, and even the dumb questions along the way.

Your pictures will have more impact in your build thread if they are posted following these instructions rather than as an attachment that people have to click on to enlarge:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18962-How-to-use-the-Image-Gallery-to-embed-pictures-in-posts

Here is your image posted this way:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134094&d=1598194250

Dave

[Big Blocker]

Welcome to the family. Your build plan sounds perfect. I have to agree with Jeff above in post #5 (that's a no-brainer, we always agree on stuff), most of the "fire breathing monsters" that I've ridden in and/or had the chance to drive aren't that much fun if you have to be throttling back all the time just to drive.

My little 302 powered MK-II Cobra has seen a lot of time on the road and I wouldn't change anything about it manners on the highway or city streets. I built my car with the idea that I was going to be doing a lot of cruising, more than the few miles down to the local car show on the weekends . . . I built it so I could go 500 miles a day and not be beaten to death by the ride - creature comfort was important, reliability was important, being able to stop at ANY auto parts store if something did brake was important. Nothing "exotic" in my engine, standard T5. The car is a dream to drive . . .

Just my 2¢

Doc

[nucjd19]

You want to hear the ugly truth (which will get some panties in a knot)...lots of guys find out that once you get past bragging rights at the cruise in some of those "fire breathers" can be kind of hard to live with and aren't so much fun afterall ;)

Jeff

This quote can not be any more true! My wife and I import and breed jumper horses from France and Germany, and one of our trainers says " All of the horses you breed can't be fire breathing dragons...... They can be hard to ride and live with"...

And to quote another one of our horse trainers " You want a horse you have to kick to the edge of the cliff, not one that will take you there freely..." I think that quote fits well with these monsters. I think the 347 I am going to be installing will be more than I ever want to handle.

[mark jones]

I'm hoping to start one of these MK4 kits, but my preference is to have a removable hard top. Has anyone gone this route? Any ideas?

[mark jones]

that sounds close to what I want to build with the exception of a 5.0 engine used. also, IR rear axle etc.
what do you figure your time to complete would be? Curious

[mark jones]

the luxury of having the time to enjoy the project minus the constraints of time is a blessing. I can afford to do it but since I am now a renter without a garage to build one is rather frustrating.
I saw a post yesterday with photos of a MK4 delivery and the frame seemed to have all the, or most of the sheet metal panels already installed. Wonder if thats common

[JB in NOVA]

Congrats! You are starting an incredible adventure, and it's great that your daughter gets to participate. I look forward to following your build.

[460.465USMC]

An exciting day, indeed! Glad to see you have a helper to keep you on the right track. :p

My complete kit is about three weeks out from delivery...can't wait.

Chris

[edwardb]

Question for the group though is it better to put the F-panels on now or wait until the front suspension is built up? I see some areas where it looks like it would be easier to install stuff without it, but I also see once that stuff is there might not be the easiest to install it itself. Just looking for some thought.

Hello from Lake Orion. Congrats on your kit order and delivery! You're in for an excellent adventure. For the F-panels, you'll get different opinions on this. Like many choices, "better" is in the eye of the builder. Not absolute. The Factory Five manual shows installing them first, e.g. before the front suspension components. That's what I've typically done. But you can also install them afterwards if that's your choice. Just be very careful about rivet placement. Especially on the lower bar under the UCA mount. Easy to locate them where they're inaccessible with the suspension in place.

[Papa]

Hello Paul, Thanks for the feedback. I was leaning towards putting them on after the lower control arms went on. Looks like the only thing that the F panel really gets in the way of when looking at the manual.

Great way to look a couple of steps ahead. Thinking like this will save you a lot of grief as you progress in your build. Now for the part where I try to help you spend your money. Before you get too far into building up the front suspension, consider spending $10 on a set of Energy Suspension ball joint dust boots (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CN9AQU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and toss the upper ball joint boots that came with the kit.

Here are a couple of pictures to help convince you.

Kit supplied upper ball joint boots:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136208&d=1602452358

Energy Suspension boots installed:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136430&d=1602892574

[Papa]

Here is where I got them. You may find them locally as well:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CN9AQU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Energy Suspension 5.13102G Ball Joint Dust Boot for Chrysler

They come as a set of four (upper and lower), but I only did the uppers (the smaller size in the set).

[Papa]

I'd simply persuade (a couple of taps with the BFH) the tab over a bit to close that small gap.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Torque it. And remember that you want to close the frame tabs on the bushing's inner sleeve, not the poly.

Jeff

[Papa]

So my passenger side suspension is almost complete minus brakes. I am currently stopped on the driver side.

The passenger side. FYI when this pic was taken was before spindle nut was tightened. It is now tightened needed to borrow a torque wrench for it. Mine maxed out at 150 ft/lb
136809
Currently stopped and awaiting Factory Five direction. I think I got two passenger side control arms. Unless I was supposed to install one upside down?
136810

Are you referring to the upper control arms? You may need to reassemble them in the correct configuration for our cars. I recall mine came assembled incorrectly and I had to flip the rear bar. Also, the ball joint mounts will look opposite on either side of the car. Keep going, this project will cure you of your OCD eventually!

[Papa]

Here are a couple of pics from my build. Note that the welded side of the ball joint mount is toward the front on the driver's side and the bolt-on is toward the front on the passenger side.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136812&d=1603823865

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136811&d=1603823858

[Papa]

It really doesn't matter where the bolt vs. weld are, but only that the tall side of the angled ball joint mount is properly oriented to cant the ball joint outward vs. inward.

[JB in NOVA]

I'm just a newbie here, so take my comments at face value. But since you mention that you will be installing power steering, keep in mind that many forum members have recommended trimming the upper control arm sleeves to allow for adequate room to achieve the required high caster for PS. Here is my experience (but full disclosure, I have not yet completed my front-end alignment):


So I’m continuing to make progress . . . slowly but surely. I spent a few hours today finishing the front suspension. With everything fastened but not torqued to spec, I attempted to adjust the upper control arms to match the rough alignment recommended in the manual for power steering (high caster):

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128440&d=1589599399

As many others have reported in this forum, I was not able to get the rear arm adjusted down to 7.375 inches, measured from the center of the pivot bolt to the center of the ball joint. On the passenger’s side, I could only get to 7.75 inches (although there was probably still another ¼ inch of thread left to play with if I re-centered the adjustment sleeve). On the driver’s side, I could only get to 7.4375 inches:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128441&d=1589599416 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128442&d=1589599433

Based on the recommendation of others on this forum, I decided to trim the rear adjustment sleeves to allow more leeway for this alignment. I used a hacksaw to trim about 3/8 inches from one end of each sleeve, and a Dremel sanding tool to clean up the cut:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128443&d=1589599452 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128444&d=1589599468

I used a Dremel cutting wheel to cut the bolts the same amount. On the PS, I found I needed to cut both bolts about 3/8 inches. Once I did this, I was able to get both UCAs into the recommended rough alignment for power steering.

After this, there was just one last thing I needed to get everything in the front suspension torqued to spec. Having struck out trying to rent a large torque wrench from Auto Zone, Sun Belt Rentals, etc., I finally gave in and bought a big-azz torque wrench and a 36mm socket for the hub nuts. With these, I was able to get the hub nuts torqued to 225-250 ft-lbs without too much trouble at all:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128445&d=1589599487

It’s amazing what a long lever arm can do! I now have a fully assembled and properly torqued front suspension.

[Papa]

I did not cut mine and the alignment is good. I think they were able to get a bit more than 7 degrees of caster. The car centers well and is very stable at all speeds.

[Jeff Kleiner]

For power steering set the forward leg to approximately XX from the center of the ball joint grease fitting to the cross bar pivot grease fitting. Set the rear leg to approximately XX fitting to fitting. I did this to Papa Dave’s car when I had it and I think he’ll confirm that it’ll get you pretty darn close ;)

Jeff

CORRECTION I realized that I transposed my numbers above. The rear leg needs to be approximately 8.5" and the forward leg should be 9.25"

Sorry for the confusion.

[Papa]

For power steering set the forward leg to approximately 8.5” from the center of the ball joint grease fitting to the cross bar pivot grease fitting. Set the rear leg to approximately 9.25” fitting to fitting. I did this to Papa Dave’s car when I had it and I think he’ll confirm that it’ll get you pretty darn close ;)

Jeff

Exactly! When I shipped my car to Jeff, it was way off of where it needed to be and after discussing it with Jeff, he agreed to "get it close". When I got my car back and took it to an alignment shop, it was nearly perfect. The shop was surprised that it was that good with no computer alignment. It took just about fifteen minutes on the rack and it was done.

[JB in NOVA]

Is this the part of the initiation "Can we get him to cut something". :) I will check I believe I achieved the numbers, but if there is a chance the back will need to be shortened further I will cut it. Thank you for the insight. Do you know if this the same whether it is a FF5 supplied ps rack or is this an issue if you use a mustang one. I know cutting is involved if using the mustang one.

Ha ha! I've had similar thoughts during this process. As FMan says, "Trust but verify." As I noted, I have not yet personally confirmed that cutting the sleeves is necessary. I will report back when I find out for sure.

[Jeff Kleiner]

...Thank you for the insight. Do you know if this the same whether it is a FF5 supplied ps rack or is this an issue if you use a mustang one...

The rack has no bearing on the upper control arms. Only the rear adjuster sleeve is affected; with FFR spindles and control arms with the angled ball joint plate it usually needs to be shortened about 1/4” to achieve 8 degrees positive caster and >.5 degree negative camber. I’ve done “a few” ;)

Jeff

[Jeff Kleiner]

Ok Just to make sure I got the measurement correct. The below is the recommended. Want to make sure I am going proper point to point as you described above.


See the correction in post #59 above.

Jeff

[Jeff Kleiner]

Whoa! MY MISTAKE! I transposed the dimensions in post #59 The rear leg is the shorter one and needs to be 8.5" and the forward leg needs to be 9.25"

I have corrected it in the earlier posts. Sorry for the confusion.

Jeff

[Papa]

quick question for the group. I am installing the power steering rack and there is bushings and sleeves already installed. Do I use these or do I press them out and switch for the sleeve and bushing that came with the kit?

137129137130

I think the answer is to press them out and switch but just want to make sure.

Yes, you need to swap out the soft rubber ones for the hard bushings that came with the rest of the steering parts.

[Papa]

Make sure your steering arms are not upside down! The bore is tapered and should fit the tapered ball stud.

[Hoooper]

I assumed the machined side was what went down, powder coated side up. Do I have that backwards?

Check the taper. From the drivers side picture it looks upside down to me.

[Papa]

Welp. I checked it. They are upside down got to flip sides and flip them over. Thank you all again for saving me from myself. :)

At least you didn't try to torque the bolts on ... many before you have and it's a real challenge to get the parts separated.

[GBarrow]

I'm at the same point in my build and yes, I screwed up the control arms too. The good news is that it will give me the chance to change out the upper control arm dust boots, per Papa's rec. I have all the castle nuts loose, but am having trouble getting the upper control arm separated from the spindle assembly. I don't want to damage anything, as I already have the rotors and calipers on. Any suggestions?
Thanks so much for this thread! I am getting lots of good intel and really appreciate all the awesome folks that are weighing in with advice! I need all the help I can get!

[nuhale]

pick up a pickle fork... works like a charm

https://www.harborfreight.com/16-in-ball-joint-separator-63420.html

[Papa]

You could try something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/BTSHUB-Supporting-Puller-Separator-Trucks/dp/B08GG4B82M/ref=sr_1_53?dchild=1&keywords=ball+joint+separator&qid=1605220416&sr=8-53

I have an air hammer with a couple of different pickle fork attachments that does the job, but it almost always destroys the boots. If you aren't worried about them anyway, see if you can get one from your local auto parts store on loan.

https://www.amazon.com/Ingersoll-Rand-116-Standard-Hammer/dp/B000E23HM2/ref=sr_1_9?crid=19RBO8BSD2749&dchild=1&keywords=pneumatic+hammer&qid=1605220618&sprefix=pneumatic+h%2Caps%2C198&sr=8-9

https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-41400-Stepped-Pickle-Fork/dp/B002LU6DPI/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=pneumatic+hammer+pickle+fork&qid=1605220805&sr=8-2

[Hoooper]

Yeah if you are replacing the boots just bust it with a pickle fork. Oriellys rents them free, same probably for autozone and others.

[Papa]

Two things:

1. The pedal shouldn't be hitting the frame at rest. If it is, you likely need to shorten the MC push rod just a bit.
2. Make sure the switch mounting tab is mounted properly. You may need to move the tab to the opposite side of brace it's mounted to so that the tab is on the pedal side of the brace vs. the side away from the pedal.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84491&d=1524418342


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JKTn6t6aoU

Dave

[Papa]

It's really hard to see in your pictures, but is there anything you can do with the switch to get it further toward the pedal? Perhaps remove the nut on the the switch-side of the tab and let the switch butt directly up to the tab? Also, it doesn't take much to trigger the switch. Here is how mine is adjusted:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137865&d=1605621995

[Papa]

Thank you for the picture. I tried butting it up against the tab the issue is it is really wobbly when I do that and I have concern of cracking the switch case over time.
Do you see an issue in putting a shim behind the bracket to the pedal box to bring it further forward? I am thinking of doing this but not sure if that will create an issue or not.

Adding a shim/spacer should not be an issue. There isn't any real force being applied to the switch when properly adjusted. You may want to wait and revisit this until after you have the MCs installed and the pedals configured in their final positions.

[Hoooper]

How close is it? Mine was similar but I tightened the rear nut enough to get it to work. You could also bend the mounting tab a little bit to get the sensor closer to the pedal

[John Ibele]

Hey, looking good. You asked some questions you didn't get answers to.

Set screw for the go pedal. Not sure of the set screw size, but I would just take the part to your local hardware store and find one to fit if that's an option. Always easier than ordering / waiting / shipping cost if its an option.

For the steering column, I've got some surface oxidation on the steering column, with similar climate to you here in MN. I hand sanded it with some super fine grit and then wiped with WD-40 for now; it's been through a summer now and doesn't look like a problem. I'm pretty sure others have prepped it and shot it with some rattle can clear enamel but it all depends on how much polish you want to put on the car. I don't need that many detours in my build, it's taking long enough :). Plus it fits with the look I'm after.

For the steering column, I was trying to tell from your photo if the pillow block through the DS footbox is entirely on the outside. Regardless of inside / outside, it's important to have it be entirely on one side of the footbox or the other. Some have problems getting the shaft onto the steering rack when the rack is mounted, and the solution is to put the pillow block entirely on the inside of the footbox instead. That works fine and that's what I did.

As for which hole in the accelerator to use ... don't make any decisions earlier than you need to, this one's easy to decide later, when your carb / EFI will tell you how much travel you need.

One more thing, since I saw the photo of your clutch pedal setup. This is a point where the cable can fray over time if its not precisely on track with the clutch quadrant as it comes through the footbox & adjuster. Check that - you may want to do some filing to round the inside edges of the groove in the quadrant so it 'encourages' the cable down into the groove if its not precisely aligned, without causing undue wear.

Cheers,

-- John

[John Ibele]

Some folks don't like how the bolts wander away from vertical and lead to non-90-degree angles, and end up using spacers to get things straight. But that's cosmetic - what you have looks fine.

[GTBradley]

For those lost setscrews, bolts, nuts, etc I found the thread checker to be very handy:
140221 Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003FJW0GK/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_4Wj8FbBZSYSVP?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1)

[460.465USMC]

Times two on GTBradley's recommend! I just got the same set he shows using a Christmas gift card from my mother-in-law. Nice set!

[460.465USMC]

Hi RJ. My fuel tank has the same "feature" as yours on the PS front corner. Hard to imagine two different tanks could get damaged the same, but I can't figure why this corner of the tank is bent upward. Weird. Maybe I'm missing something that will become obvious later in the build? My best guess is this tank fits other applications where this corner needs to be lifted to clear an obstruction. It doesn't appear it will affect fuel delivery function, so I will leave as is until I have a reason to bend it down.

[Fman]

I think that tank being bent in the corner is standard, mine has the same. It did nothing to affect installation or functionality of the tank that I can see.

[egchewy79]

I feel like an in tank pump with a return line would be the easiest...maybe not the cheapest, however.

[richtersand]

I think that tank being bent in the corner is standard, mine has the same. It did nothing to affect installation or functionality of the tank that I can see.

I can confirm that the bend is supposed to be there. Dave B @ FFR told me.

[John Ibele]

The only bad news I can deliver is that I think your 'giant mistake' comment is way overstating the problem ;). There are way, way bigger mistakes.

I don't think you're in bad shape at all. Provided you're going carbureted, which I think you are, you'll just need a spot for your external fuel pump before your filter. But you should be able to use your hard line to the front.

I used this search in my search bar: "fuel filter location pump carburetor roadster site:thefactoryfiveforum.com"

Here's a post that looked helpful: Fuel pump and filter (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?10636-Fuel-Filter-Install&p=105793&viewfull=1#post105793). But, I didn't search much, I'm sure there's more on the forum.

One more (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?8871-Electric-Fuel-Pump-Location&p=90101&viewfull=1#post90101) with images of possible pump location, good luck!

[BadAsp427]

Curious and you may have stated it and I missed it, why not run an in tank fuel pump? Also, I'm running the BluePrint 347 with Carb and used the 5/16 line and have never had a fuel starvation problem. I have the pump in the tank and the filter is in the same place that you seem to have your. I know that BPE usually sends a Holley Red pump with the engines that do not have the ability to handle the engine mounted mechanical pump but that does not mean you have to use it. Either way, the build is looking very nice.

[BadAsp427]

Hey, Sorry, I did not see your question here. I do not have a return line, I run this in-tank pump, it is low pressure. You may want to put a regulator on and perhaps put a gauge on it as well. I do not have either, I run a line straight from the tank, through the filter, to the carb. I've never had any kind of starvation problem or for that matter, a fuel bowl overfilling, etc. CLICK HERE (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008M4R69E)

a photo of where I have my Fuel filter mounted.
If you do this, just be sure the clamp has the screw head pointed down. It is easily reached from under the car in this position.
141181