some questions on build cost and donor car

[The Riddler]

I'm new here and I have been mulling over building one of these coupes for a few years, but I have some questions. If a person were to buy a complete kit, and had a donor car, what is total build cost and what things aren't included? I have a 77K original mile 91 Mustang LX with a vortech S trim. This is the car I would use, I'd like to know what unexpected costs I can expect to incure.

Thanks in adance

Brian "the Riddler"

PS the Riddler in a 78 Mustang II monroe handler

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll93/amigrad/rallycar.jpg

[John Dol]

If you are going to use everything off your Mustang as is:

-wheels and tires
-paint and body work
-new fluids
-budget for some miscelleaneous stuff.

Others can chime in on my oversights, but those are the major things I think.

Now the more you hang out here, will increase your build cost. Don't think your manly man resistance will hold up against the temptations found here. I too thought I could stand tall......in vain!

John

[skullandbones]

So true!!! You will spend and spend and spend the more you get brain washed.

But seriously: are you really going to sacrifice that car. It's sharp! Believe me, the donor route will not save you enough to justify doing it that way. I think more and more people are realizing that now (if you really want to get it just right). The original donor concept by FFR was a good one but you have to stick to that idea very strictly to reap the savings. One example of slipping down that slippery slope is the J-pipes. The 4 into 4 headers are so much better looking, performing, etc that pretty soon you can rationalize the upgrade. And it really is worth it. The only problem is you didn't stick to the program. If you can afford it go for the complete kit. IMO. WEK.

[riptide motorsport]

Do your own paint aNd pick up used rubber, you'll finish under $25,000. HTH Steven

[xlr8or]

If you buy the complete kit you really aren't maximizing the value of having a donor so you might as well go non-donor. If you buy the basic kit there are lots of things you will use and some you will want to upgrade.

[The Riddler]

So if I understand correctly, I could buy the basic kit and use the donor? seems to me alot of stuff would NOT be used from a donor fox if I buy the complete kit.

[Jacob McCrea]

Brian,
Your post (#6) is completely correct. Buying a complete kit and cutting apart a donor would result in a lot of wasted time, duplicative parts, and perhaps wasted money.

To answer your original question, trying to itemize the hidden costs is really difficult as there are many variables. The biggest variables or questions, in my mind, are 1) how many tools you already own; 2) how much of the work you must pay someone else to do; 3) how far you would like to deviate from the basic build plan; 4) do you care whether the car will pass tech under the SCCA, NASA or other sanctioning bodies' rules; 5) what options do you want, e.g., heat, air conditioning; and 6) what does your state or other government require for the car to be legal, e.g., emissions controls, catalytic converters, etc.

For my part, the "unexpected costs" have mostly been a by-product of modifications that I decided to do. I've bought a lot of tools that I did not own (better mig welder, tubing notcher, tubing bender, chop saw, angle finder, cam degreeing kit), but needed for chassis mods and engine building. There will surely be more. Granted, I could have borrowed some of this from friends, but I want to save my favors for when I really need them.

Setting aside the fabrication and engine building tools, and just looking at what's needed to build the kit as designed, I foresee buying a flaring tool, a better rivet gun, an engine leveler for reinstalling the engine, and who knows what else. I just paid $145 to have a driveshaft shortened and new u-joins installed. There is the cost of sound deadener, if you want that. I was surprised, although not irked, to learn that my kit (base) did not come with the wiper assembly.

There are some good, recent posts on the GTM forum, in a thread about a competitor to the GTM, that do a great job of laying out the costs of materials. Posts 10-19 are pretty instructive, and I would add that if you are refurbishing donor parts, the cost of paint cans, grinding wheels, POR-15, solvents, etc. can add up quickly.

If you have a nice Mustang, I would not part it out, especially if you also buy the complete kit. I think it would be a bad move financially given the ease of finding donor parts or just buying them new. For example, right now on Craigslist Pittsburgh, between a few sellers, I can buy the majority of the donor parts used (long block ($400-$600), intake with throttle body ($250-$350), transmission/bellhousing ($400-$600), driveshaft ($20-$50), pedal box ($50), differential ($150-$250). If you live near a major city and are patient you should be able to get everything you need for $2,000-$4,000, and not cut up a nice Fox Mustang. Granted, buying used parts has some risk, but it sounds like you know what you're looking at. Many others have pointed out the upside of just buying a rebuilt long block, as opposed to a donor engine.
I hope this helps. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[Richard Oben]

If budget is part of the equation use the donor concept. Get the bones right, lower end of the motor, 3 link, 5 lug and then go from there. If you do a nice job and do it ALL, and I mean ALL of it yourself you can get by for $35K, it will be very tough to do that. I really doubt you can do under 30 (sorry Steve). We have a local customer who built a nice roadster for $30k and only had $1,200 in the paint, but he did all the important stuff right. We have been involved in about 100 cars and costs vary by who is doing what, the largest factor is outside labor, if you keep that down it can be done reasonably. HTH, Richard.

[John Card]

Short answer: How good are you at resisting temptation?
You'll see other stuff, want to "upgrade" here and there, and before you know it, the budget you had is gone. It reallys depends on what you want the finished product to be and how much of it you can do yourself.

[The Riddler]

Thank you gentlemen for all the answers. I'll tel you what I want to do, and you all can tell me if it is something I can do. My thought process was, if I can stick to an "out of the box" stock build, down the road I can upgrade as I have funds. I have several friends who work on fox mustangs and know them inside and out. I was assuming that the cars would handle and ride much like a stock 5 litre mustang if you built it as it comes with no additional upgrades.

[dsblk93gt]

I do not own one of these cars "yet" but have owned 15+ foxbodys and still own one. Having bought and sold a lot of them for myself and others plus parting cars out I can't see the reason for using a good complete car with that low of miles. Especially with the prices on foxbodys going up if anything. Prices for foxbodys in clean shape are the same or more than they were back in the 90's which says something. There are so many wrecked or totalled I'd just get the stuff needed and you will save $$ and time. It's a pain to sit and part out a whole car, been there and done that. Or sell the foxbody you have and buy all the stuff to do it. If it is rusty or a POS then I'd say go for it. I got a COMPLETE wrecked 5.0 GT for $350 before that ran and drove. There are tons of cars like this out there...

[John Dol]

As a reference:

I bought a $3300 Mustang GT. It had several extra's. Gutted it out and sold parts for about $2900.
Left me with all the parts you need including rear axle, engine, tranny, front spindles, all disk brakes with 5 lug etc. for about $400.
It can be done for under $30K in my opinion, but then mine is not finished yet!:p
Side note, I have since gotten the SN 95 spindles and different front and rear brakes, like I said stay away from this forum!!!!!

John

[John Card]

It depends on your donor and its cost, but to me, the complete kit is a darned good deal considering you are getting all new parts.

[riptide motorsport]

THe car will not run or handle like a stock Mustang GT, the car will handle like its on rails and be significantly quicker.......you'll be very pleasantly surprised!!!.Steven

[firechicken]

I am leaning more and more towards not buying a complete donor. there are some vey nice built engines out there for cheap. Unfinshed projects seem to be a great resource. I want new breaks, used tranny, an engine with performance parts for cheap. the front suspenion parts are the only thing I have not seen on craigslist but I bet I could go to a junkyard and find them in decent shape.
Anyone have thoughts on this?,,, gone this route?

[Hankl]

the front suspenion parts are the only thing I have not seen on craigslist but I bet I could go to a junkyard and find them in decent shape.


For the new MKII Coupe, using the FFR spindles is the best way to go, They have the correct geometry for SAI, so you'd be better off going with FFR on those, that will tend to blow a hole in the JunkYard parts part of the "Donor" direction on front suspension.

Hank :cool:

[The Riddler]

I'd really like to look at one before I make any kind of purchase, can you tour the factory on a Sat. or is it something you have to do during the week?

[John Dol]

Yes you can. Only in the morning and call ahead for an app.
You can also contact other members to see their ride. On the "other" forum there's a coupe owners map.
Where are you at?

John

[The Riddler]

I am in Bernville PA...North of Reading and halfway between Philly and Harrisburg.

[Mark Dougherty]

Riddler
you are only about an hour from me in hershey by the giant stadium

[The Riddler]

Riddler
you are only about an hour from me in hershey by the giant stadium

Oh hell I used to live by there. The small town of Union Deposit (between Hershey and Hummelsown)