Electric power rack and pinion

[Bad Moose]

My MK3.1 is moving down to Ft Meyers FL to be with its rightful owner the original builder. :D:D:D

But he has requested that it come with power steering, he is too old to handle the manual steering he built it with. It has the FFR 15:1 manual rack and pinion that it came with, but the original reason he sold me the car was the fact the steering was too twitchy at speed.

So I'm thinking 2fold and possibly over thinking this also. But I'm probably going to end up changing the rack and pinion along with adding electric assist. So, my thoughts are that instead of doing two things at once and still ending up at the same cost why not go with a electric power rack and pinion.

A. Is this possible?
B. Is it going to be the same cost wise?
C. Where do I look to purchase one?
D. I'm not against this option, should I just do Hydraulic?
E. What ration should I be looking at?

I have done some searching but most of the threads are 4 years old and older. There have been alot of advancements in 4 years with these cars, so I'm hoping this has advanced also to something simple.

Car has no ECU just a Roush 427r carb, so power fuel and go.

Your thoughts.....

[Bob Cowan]

I have not seen it done. Yet. And, AFAIK, there are no aftermarket units available.

[CraigS]

For me, unless you really like a challenge, I'd do normal hydraulic PS. All the parts are available, they are known fitment, and not expensive. The old Mustang pumps are a bit of a problem some times. Wearing out and becoming noisy. Another solution is a 99 Explorer pump. I believe it is the GM style and mine used a remote reservoir. I think there may be reservoir included versions but haven't looked into that.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50232294246_1c7429a49f_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jwRD1J)20200216_074516 (https://flic.kr/p/2jwRD1J) by craig stuard (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152454123@N04/), on Flickr
#6406 is the Autozone # for the 3.0 turns rack.

[swwebb]

You can just add electric power steering to the manual steering rack - you don't have to change it. That's what I did, and it works great.

I got my electric power steering unit through epowersteering.com. They have a special Factory Five Roadster kit. Just contact them.

One big advantage of power steering is that you can increase the caster significantly, which makes the car track much better at higher speeds.

[Bad Moose]

swwebb, do you think the cast will affect the twitchiness significantly, or more of a bandaid? To a new rack?

[Bad Moose]

Craig, The engine set up is a pulley not serpentine. Do you think I'll still need to change the water pump?

[CraigS]

Unfortunately I don't know. I have serpentine so never looked into a pulley for a V belt. I would search that first because I am pretty sure that by 1999 Ford had been using serpentines for several years and probably never made a V belt pulley for that pump. Do some searching for 'GM syle' or 'Saginaw style' PS pumps. There are a lot of them out there but be sure to check on pressures as I believe I have read that GM generally runs a higher pressure system than Ford. That would be the last thing you want. Although the effort was close enough in stock form to be drivable, I have trimmed the pressure spring in my Explorer pump to reduce pressure slightly.

[Walt]

I also installed the kit from epowersteering.com , it works great, i like that you can adjust it from off to full on or inbetween.

[Planecrazy1976]

Hey Guys, we sell the epowersteeriing system if you have a manual rack already all you have to do is add the system to the current car. With this system you can adjust on the fly how much assist you want with the simple turn of a dial in the cockpit. If you have any questions please feel free to call me at 520-800-6006 or check out the website WWW.520Speedworks.com

Thanks,

Greg Allan

[swwebb]

swwebb, do you think the cast will affect the twitchiness significantly, or more of a bandaid? To a new rack?

Yes - adding more caster makes it less twitchy.

A lot of people have added electric power steering. They should chime in as well.

[Bad Moose]

I'm hoping some others chime in with their honest experience from doing both, before I make my final decision. I'm amazed that not much has changed in 4 years.

Planecrazy1976 expect a call soon.

I don't mind being the first on some things...... What's your thoughts on this option: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-3200-epas NonDOT concerns me a little.

[rich grsc]

You have the computer to control it?

[Planecrazy1976]

Hey Rich System I sell comes with everything. Module, Motor, Sensitivity Control Dial, Bracket, and wiring. https://520speedworks.com/shop/ols/products/electric-power-steering

[mike223]

What's your thoughts on this option: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-3200-epas NonDOT concerns me a little.


You have the computer to control it?

Good point -FPP answer from the Summit Q & A:

"this unit would be controlled by speed input and Ignition signal through the can system"

[rich grsc]

Hey Rich System I sell comes with everything. Module, Motor, Sensitivity Control Dial, Bracket, and wiring. https://520speedworks.com/shop/ols/products/electric-power-steering
My question was in regards to the Summit electric rack. I have old fashion hydraulic PS.;)

[frankb]

Moose: I installed the epowersteering system in FFR 8317, and am very happy with it. I keep the power assist at the minimum level and it provides just the right amount of assistance. I'm getting too old and weak to fight manual steering with fat tires! :rolleyes: 133845

[Bob Cowan]

I don't mind being the first on some things...... What's your thoughts on this option: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-3200-epas NonDOT concerns me a little.

A lot of modern cars have electric racks like this one. Even my truck has it. The problem is that no one has managed to develop a stand alone computer to control it.

The other issue is that the mounting set up is completely different than anything before it. If you're handy with a welder, you can fix that.

[JohnK]

EPAS Performance makes an electric power R&P. I've not tried it personally, so no idea how it works or how it would fit in our cars, but it does look like a more conventional mounting style and does come with its own computer, FWIW.

https://epasperformance.com/products/electric-rack-pinion

[Planecrazy1976]

Guy,
The e power rack i sell has the computer module and all the necessary things to install on our cars brackets and all. Comes with a module that allows up to ten different sensitivity settings from the twist of a knob located in the cockpit. System is easy to install, but there is some welding involved. If you are not a welder the components can be taken to a shop and they can simply follow the instruction. Please if you have any questions let me know. Greg 520-800-6006. I am in the process of becoming a vendor on the forum. Please check out our website www.520Speedworks.com

[swwebb]

Guy,
The e power rack i sell has the computer module and all the necessary things to install on our cars brackets and all. Comes with a module that allows up to ten different sensitivity settings from the twist of a knob located in the cockpit. System is easy to install, but there is some welding involved. If you are not a welder the components can be taken to a shop and they can simply follow the instruction. Please if you have any questions let me know. Greg 520-800-6006. I am in the process of becoming a vendor on the forum. Please check out our website www.520Speedworks.com

FYI - that is the epowersteering system.

[Bob Cowan]

EPAS Performance makes an electric power R&P. I've not tried it personally, so no idea how it works or how it would fit in our cars, but it does look like a more conventional mounting style and does come with its own computer, FWIW.

https://epasperformance.com/products/electric-rack-pinion

This is intriguing. I like that the rack and the motor are on piece. That makes installation and packaging so much easier. I sent them an e-mail asking for specs. Maybe this will be my winter project?

[Jammer369]

Guy,
The e power rack i sell has the computer module and all the necessary things to install on our cars brackets and all. Comes with a module that allows up to ten different sensitivity settings from the twist of a knob located in the cockpit. System is easy to install, but there is some welding involved. If you are not a welder the components can be taken to a shop and they can simply follow the instruction. Please if you have any questions let me know. Greg 520-800-6006. I am in the process of becoming a vendor on the forum. Please check out our website www.520Speedworks.com

Planecrazy, will that fit in a MKIV w/Coyote?

[Planecrazy1976]

It will Fit, it will be snug because of the way the bottom radiator hose is positioned on the motor. With maybe a 90 deg or some creative hosing it is absolutely do able.

[Mastertech5]

Planet crazy, Do you have one that will fit the FFR 33 Hot Rod and do you need any shafts or joints more than what is in the car?

[Planecrazy1976]

Mastertech5, I just bought and downloaded the 33 hot rod manual and there are instructions on how to mount an electric option. It appears to be the same motor unit we use on the Roadster. I can work with you on getting the right stuff you need so that i can put a kit together for other members.

[Mastertech5]

I haven't even ordered my kit yet but am trying to research all my options. I think the FFR unit is by Unisteer if i remember correctly. Thanks and I'll definitely get back to you about it before I order, shooting for Feb.

[Bad Moose]

This is intriguing. I like that the rack and the motor are on piece. That makes installation and packaging so much easier. I sent them an e-mail asking for specs. Maybe this will be my winter project?


Intrigued also.

Welding is not an issue for me. Fab is not an issue either. I just want simple and correct the first time. The one thing I have learned is to ask alot of questions and research online. When you do you will find the right solution the first time. Hence, it costs less and you are totally happy with what you got and not wishing for something else.

Planecrazy you're still on the list to call as I want to visit with you on this. Right now I've got five things going on at the same time along with this project. Next week this should start settling down. Then I can get my full attention on this.

All keep the input coming. There is a lot of good discussion and thoughts, and I DEEPLY THANK YOU FOR THIS!!! This will not only help me but others as well.

[Mastertech5]

Mastertech5, I just bought and downloaded the 33 hot rod manual and there are instructions on how to mount an electric option. It appears to be the same motor unit we use on the Roadster. I can work with you on getting the right stuff you need so that i can put a kit together for other members.

Planecrazy, sending you a PM. Mastertech5. If I can figure out how.

[Planecrazy1976]

Call me any time, 520-800-6006

Greg

[Planecrazy1976]

Mastertech5 Email me at Greg@520Speedworks.com or call me at 520-800-6006

[Bad Moose]

This is intriguing. I like that the rack and the motor are on piece. That makes installation and packaging so much easier. I sent them an e-mail asking for specs. Maybe this will be my winter project?

Have they responded yet? I just sent an inquiry also for pricing, installation and fitment.

[Bob Cowan]

Haven't heard from them yet. I'll post here an y info I get from them. If I get anything.

[Bad Moose]

Thanks. I will post up also.

[Bob Cowan]

Haven't heard from them yet. I'll post here an y info I get from them. If I get anything.

Still haven't heard from them. Sent them another request today.

[Bad Moose]

Thanks for the update! Neither have I. But I also haven't had any time to think about the Cobra right now either. Hopefully soon, I'll be puttering around with it.

[BadAsp427]

I have the Elect power steering with the manual rack. You will have the alignment setting that are used for the power steering setup. This will add additional Caster and should improve your "twitchiness" you described. Here is a LINK (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?29472-Carl-s-20th-Anniversary-8690-10-000-miles-With-Jeff-Kleiner&p=345511&viewfull=1#post345511) to my build and information for the EPAS

[Bad Moose]

Ok, I finally had a little time to work on this a little bit today.

Stop to stop, it takes 2.5 turns of the steering wheel. This is with the wheels off the ground and replicated several times counting the bottom spoke of the steering wheel.


What are your thoughts on my current ratio?

When doing this conversion, what are most your readings on the stop to stop turns of the wheel?


I also heard from EPAS today. Unfortunately I did not have much time to discuss the car with Geoff. But they have two options for the electric powered rack 2.8 turns or 3.2 turns. The rack fits up to the Mustang II, tied rods ends he stated were usually a cut and weld type of thing. I didn't dig into it to understand what he meant. We ended the call with me calling him back when I was under the car. Nice guy and seemed knowledgeable.

I still have to call Planecrazy for his input also. Hopefully that will happen tomorrow.

[Bad Moose]

Bump on

Stop to stop readings other guys have on their power steering setups?

Thoughts between 2.5 and 3 ratios.

[Bob Cowan]

I have sent multiple e-mails to EPAS. Tried to call them, but phone number appears to be disconnected. Sent a message through face book. I still can't get a hold them. All I wanted was information about their product. It may be a fine product, but I'm not sure this is a company I want to deal with. Customer service after the sale is very important to me.

I guess I'll look at other options for power steering.

[Bad Moose]

I went with Greg at 520 Speedworks. Great guy and knowledgeable plus he picked up the phone......

I'll let you know how the install goes.

[Bob Cowan]

Soon after I posted the above, I got a phone call. Then I received a e-mail with the drawings as requested. As soon as I get time, I'll get under the car and take some measurements. He said they had been working with BDR to make a kit. But they were too difficult to work with, and the project died.

[Bad Moose]

Mock up is going well. Will have to tweak the motor mounting bracket but all is good.