New Project 818C, need some advice please!

[Mark Eaton]

I have completed my FFR MK4 ( with exception of body work and paint!) and have 2500 miles on it, I love that vehicle! My 14yo son asked me a few days ago if we could restore an old car for him to drive when he turns 16. I was surprised and excited because he and his older brother had completely lost interest in the MK4 build early on. We discussed some options and I showed him the 818C which he immediately latched on to! I downloaded the PDF build manual for both of us and we are reading through it and well as build threads.

So…. I need some advice.

First, the windshield wiper situation is not clear to me. The manual says to save the assembly if you want wipers but I can’t find instructions for them. FFR offers a monowiper kit as does Forma Cars. Is this my only option? And which is the better kit?

Second, definitely need a heater. Can I use the donor system? I’m guessing the answer will lie in contact vintage air, however, I saw in AZPete’s thread he came up with some hybrid system.

Third, he will need somewhere to put his backpack on the way to school so what about the FFR trunk kit. I have read that it doesn’t fit the 818C but that may have been an old post. Is this still true? I can always fabricate something.

Fourth, I have read that the top leaks water. Does anyone have a good way to prevent that?

Finally, The donor will surely have ABS system and I figure I will try to install. Also, Wilwood (which I really like in the MK4) seem like overkill for this car which should be fine with the OEM brakes. thoughts??

Thanks,

Mark

[Hojo]

You can use the wiper motor and gear from your WRX per the many pages of instructions in the manual. FFR’s wiper kit is now the Formacar’s. I bought the FFR kit and the instructions are still from Formacar. It went in very easily with a little bending of the wiper arm. The difference in speeds between high and low isn’t as significant as it is in a regular car. I’m in Massachusetts so I have to have a washer too. I bought a pump and reservoir on Amazon and the squirter nozzle that goes on a Mercedes Sprinter. It clips onto the wiper arm so the plumbing is short and direct.

[FFRWRX]

Third, he will need somewhere to put his backpack on the way to school so what about the FFR trunk kit. I have read that it doesn’t fit the 818C but that may have been an old post. Is this still true? I can always fabricate something.



I have not completed my car, but I have put the trunk pieces into my 818C for a test fit and they seem to fit fine. I've read the same things as you about them not fitting, buy maybe something has been updated?

When I read your post the first thing that came to mind was, maybe unfairly, "of course his son is going to lose interest in this one too once the build starts and it seems that so much time is put into details that don't make a finished car in a couple weeks". I know you aren't asking about this, but are you going to be OK with building it without help or interest if it comes to that?

[07FIREBLADE]

I have not completed my car, but I have put the trunk pieces into my 818C for a test fit and they seem to fit fine. I've read the same things as you about them not fitting, buy maybe something has been updated?

When I read your post the first thing that came to mind was, maybe unfairly, "of course his son is going to lose interest in this one too once the build starts and it seems that so much time is put into details that don't make a finished car in a couple weeks". I know you aren't asking about this, but are you going to be OK with building it without help or interest if it comes to that?

How far along in the build are you? For the C the trunk usable space is pretty limited due to the hatch design. The trunk piece was originally designed with the S in mind. The engine cover is different and allows full usage of the FFR.trunk design.

[FFRWRX]

This is with the trunk liner set in place and the roof also set in place. Looks like most of it is usable to me. The rear and maybe the sides are overlapped a bit by the body panels, but not as much as I thought from reading about people saying it isn't usable.

132844

Rick

[AZPete]

Mark, I agree with all the guys above. I made the OE wiper motor work with a single wiper arm but that was before FRR or Forma invented theirs. The FFR wiper had you cut the hood but now that it has morphed into Forma, perhaps that's not an issue. The OE wiper is "free" from your donor and can be plugged into the OE stalk wiring to get 3 speeds and even a washer, with a cheap Amazon system, like Hojo said.

Re leaks in the C hardtop, I don't have the constant (!!) rain like Oregon, but drove in several downpours. The only leak I had was around the windshield that I easily fixed with a dab of sealant. If you have patience to get the side windows to fit right, you'll have no leaks there.

I used the donor ABS system and it worked well. I agree that the donor brakes are plenty to stop a street car but it took a little practice to get used to non-power brakes compared to modern daily drivers. A couple of guys on this forum are working on adding a vacuum booster so follow them.

As you know from the roadster forum, it's a lot of fun to upgrade to "better" components but for reliability in a street car I think it's good to stick closely to the donor systems, where you can. Hundreds of Subaru engineers planned, discussed, argued and designed reliable systems for steering, braking, wiping, etc.

Do it! For V-8 guys it's a fun build because you'll be learning about a flat-four engine, a transaxle, and maybe a turbo, plus a modern body design.

[Mark Eaton]

I
When I read your post the first thing that came to mind was, maybe unfairly, "of course his son is going to lose interest in this one too once the build starts and it seems that so much time is put into details that don't make a finished car in a couple weeks". I know you aren't asking about this, but are you going to be OK with building it without help or interest if it comes to that?

We talked this through, we'll see but I think he's committed. He has shown tenacity before, like getting his black belt in karate at a young age. Also, the idea came from him and not me. We'll see... And thanks for your info on the trunk

[Mark Eaton]

Thanks for the input guys!

Another question: So far all the donor cars I can find seem to be fairly high mileage 120,000 to 218,000mi. It looks like I can buy used engines with 50-70K for under $700. So, I'm thinking about buying a 2007 high mileage donor and a used engine with 50K for about $700. I know some have talked about just replacing the head gaskets and timing belt but what if the rings are bad etc.?

As much as I'd like to put in a turbo engine better judgement tells me that for a 16 yo the more mild 2.5L SOHC engine may be a better choice.

Thoughts on both question??

Thanks

Mark

[Ajzride]

There is a guy on the Facebook page who used a 2014 WRX motor, not sure about the suspension. That is another route to consider.

[Hobby Racer]

As much as I'd like to put in a turbo engine better judgement tells me that for a 16 yo the more mild 2.5L SOHC engine may be a better choice.
Mark

You were reading my mind. Combing a super light car with no airbags or modern safety features AND a turbo motor with a 16 year old first time driver would keep me up at night with worry.

Just my $0.02

[lsfourwheeler]

FYI, the Forma wiper and the FFR wiper are the same thing. FFR just sells the Forma product after discontinuing their own design. I have it am I'm very happy with the setup. Super easy to install.

[Sgt.Gator]

You were reading my mind. Combing a super light car with no airbags or modern safety features AND a turbo motor with a 16 year old first time driver would keep me up at night with worry.

Just my $0.02

I agree 100%. These cars are not crash tested except by us! In another thread it was observed that an 818 should be considered as a grade above a motorcycle, but far below an oem automaker, in safety.

IMHO your son would be better off with a relatively modern car and rebuild the engine in it. One with airbags, ABS, side door guard beams, NHTSA tested crumple zones. 2006+ Mustang, Camaro, WRX, any Acura/Honda, Toyota...just a few that come to mind.
Or if you really have to go "vintage" a Fox body Mustang or earlier......

But if you really want to build an 818, yes an SOHC Subaru will be plenty fast enough! And far less complex to build and maintain than a turbo engine.

And if you want to drive an 818, I have my 818R in Bend. It has a license plate, but it would be better to meet at Oregon Raceway Park. I'm an instructor there. You're welcome to bring your MK4 to one of our Club Track days, have a blast driving it, and also test drive my 818R.
:cool:

[Mechie3]

Bobncincy use the original OEM wiper and made his own kit work too I believe. He probably has photos in his build thread.

Just today someone posted photos of their orange 818 and the effect of cold tires and going over a hill. Wipe out and hit a pole. I'd stick with lower power for a younger guy myself.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bobncincy use the original OEM wiper and made his own kit work too I believe. He probably has photos in his build thread.

Just today someone posted photos of their orange 818 and the effect of cold tires and going over a hill. Wipe out and hit a pole. I'd stick with lower power for a younger guy myself.

Here is a video of my wiper. 2 speed with automatic park. Marine motor. No hood trimming necessary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-HMdbagCuE

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Another wiper video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zujofXw4b5Q

[Mark Eaton]

And if you want to drive an 818, I have my 818R in Bend. It has a license plate, but it would be better to meet at Oregon Raceway Park. I'm an instructor there. You're welcome to bring your MK4 to one of our Club Track days, have a blast driving it, and also test drive my 818R.
:cool:

Sgt Gator, You are ON!!! Nick and I would LOVE to bring my MK4 to one of your Club Tack days and drive around and test drive your 818R! I will send you a PM.

Thank you so much!

Mark

[Mark Eaton]

OK, I'm getting anxiety about the door situation on this 818C project, mainly the window situation or lack there of. Apparently it is one of the most irritating parts of the build and FFR does not have a functioning window??? I have been reading threads about doing a mod and installing side windows. Its not clear to me are you guys using the windows from the donor Subaru? Lance Corsi made the comment in some post that the 2003 S-10 window track works well. Not sure where to find one of those...

I live in Oregon, I need side windows that close.

[Ajzride]

The side windows work as well as any other FFR side windows work :(

It can be made to work, just takes some effort. I would suggest looking at this GTM solution, I think it would work for the 818 as well:

https://www.ffcars.com/threads/window-treatments-gtm-327.415705/