View Full Version : Moving Ahead
So, thanks to SJDave, my build is back on track. He came up again today to help me get the engine timed, since I haven't used a timing light since 1968, and I wasn't sure what I needed to be looking for anyway. So we got the engine timed, it idles better, and runs well. At this point I don't know what I'd be doing if he wasn't willing to make the drive up here to help! Unfortunately, I guess from when I replaced the oil pan, there is a minor oil drip that's a bit more than I'd like to see, so it's back up on jack stands once it cools down, and try to determine where the oil is coming from. I just seem to keep chasing leaks! Anyhow, I ran the engine up to operating temp to check to make sure the fan was coming on, (it does at 190), and to burp the system and run the heater to get coolant in the lines. Where I was having the temps go crazy on me before, it ran up to 180, stayed there until I opened the heater valve, then it went to 190 at which point the fan did come on. Yeah! The temperature stabilized and didn't go over 190. Oil pressure around 50lbs., volts at 14, and the idle is around 1,000. So other than the minor oil leak I'm happy!
Now I'm looking to install a remote brake fluid reservoir, but I'm doing things a little different. I got a stock Ford reservoir that normally mounts on top of the master cylinder, because I want to retain the low fluid sensor that I currently have with my current reservoir. Dave is going to mill a bracket to mount the new reservoir to that can be mounted just inside the 3/4 tube, but we were trying to figure the holes where the reservoir presses in with the rubber grommet. I don't know what the opening on a master cylinder looks like, and was wondering if anyone had any idea if it is just a straight bored hole that the grommet pressure fits into, or if it has a lip inside that catches the grommet to keep it from pulling out. If anyone knows, or has a Ford MC handy that they could get a picture of those ports that the reservoir presses into, I'd really appreciate it. I need to re-route the flexible brake lines at the wheels to get the lines out of harms way, and I'd like to get this new brake fluid reservoir in place and just have to bleed the system once.
Thanks for any info.
Norm B
07-18-2020, 10:39 PM
Rick, like you I wanted the low fluid warning that is incorporated into the stock master cylinder because it is one of the items required for registration in the province we plan to retire in. I checked my pictures from when I did my power brake upgrade but, can’t find any of the ports in the master cylinder. I googled and took a screen shot of one similar to mine. I also added some pictures of the bracket I made to hold the reservoir and the fittings I modified to fit in the master cylinder. There are direct fit couplings that go into the master cylinder to allow for a remote reservoir. I tried a search now and couldn’t find them. My computer skills are lacking a bit. I made my own fittings to go from the master cylinder to the brake reservoir. I used two pex 3/4 to 1/2 elbows like the one pictured. The 3/4 side goes into the master cylinder grommet. I filed off the upper two ridges in the fitting and polished that area. When you pull the reservoir out off the master cylinder you can see the shape of fitting you need to get/make by looking at it.
HTH
Norm
Norm,
That picture of the MC is about the closest I could find also. Dave is actually trying to make a new piece that the new reservoir will mount on. I purchased the Lodestone Billetworks pieces that they make to fit into the existing MC, so that part is covered. We're just not sure what the bore, where the rubber grommets are in the MC in the picture you posted, is, and how it's shaped. Is it just a straight bore that the grommet is force fit into, or does it have a lip at the top edge to retain the grommet? I've never had a bare MC in my hands that I could reference. I may just go down to the auto parts, ask for a bare MC just to look at how the bore is shaped. It may be the only way to confirm how they should be shaped. I probably need to pick up a couple of new grommets to replace the existing ones in the MC as well.
Thanks for the effort! Like I said, I have no clue what they look like inside!
Norm B
07-19-2020, 01:33 AM
Rick, now I understand what you are trying to do. You want to make a copy of the master cylinder and grommet connection to attach the reservoir. I went a different route but, I went through my Mustang shop manual and found a few grainy black and white photos that I took pictures of. The master cylinder opening has a ridge part way down that fits into a groove in the grommet.
HTH
Norm
Nigel Allen
07-19-2020, 06:25 AM
I had a similar style reservoir. I was able to run a npt tap up the bore of the plastic spigot outlets of the reservoir. I then screwed in brass right angled fitting that had matching npt thread on one end and barbed tail at other end to suit flexible hose. Wasn't sure what to use to seal the thread against brake fluid so used a thin smear of Araldite. 7 years later and no problemo.
Cheers, Nigel.
Norm that was what I was looking for. I would need to find out the specifics on the rib inside the port on the MC.
Nigel, that's pure genius! I'm going to talk to Dave about whether this would be doable.
Got the car off the skates, and decided to take it on it's first go-kart.
https://live.staticflickr.com/31337/50131302193_90b5d07372_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jnW2Ar)P1010157 (https://flic.kr/p/2jnW2Ar) by Rick Paul (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156322842@N02/), on Flickr
Click on the picture and it'll take you to the video in Flickr.
Thanks
OttawaFFRer
07-20-2020, 12:09 PM
Can't view the video, flickr says I don't have permission after logging in.
OttawaFFRer, Thanks for letting me know what's happening. I'm going to have to check the settings in Flickr to see what's going on.
OK, So I changed the access to Public on this video. If someone could let me know if they can see it now, I'd appreciate it.
OttawaFFRer
07-20-2020, 01:11 PM
Yes sir, all good.
OttawaFFRer
07-20-2020, 01:12 PM
looks and sounds great!
Mark K
07-20-2020, 01:15 PM
Congrats on the first go-kart! I like the vintage editing to the video, too.
Thanks guys. It's been a long time coming!
Railroad
07-20-2020, 02:12 PM
Engine sounds great and those stacks are head turners. Great car!
OttawaFFRer
07-20-2020, 03:18 PM
If I had seen those 8 stacks running sooner I may have been swayed.
Railroad, thanks it's taken what seems like forever. Now to just finish it!
OttawaFFRer, I'm not sure I'd steer you in that direction without some extreme research. If I had known that FF was going to offer an FIA kit, I would have waited. If I had waited, I might be done by now!
AC Bill
07-20-2020, 07:24 PM
Anyhow, I ran the engine up to operating temp to check to make sure the fan was coming on, (it does at 190), and to burp the system and run the heater to get coolant in the lines. Where I was having the temps go crazy on me before, it ran up to 180, stayed there until I opened the heater valve, then it went to 190 at which point the fan did come on. Yeah! The temperature stabilized and didn't go over 190.
Good that you burped the system, with the heater valve already open. If not that can lead to air still trapped in the system.
Very nice of SJ Dave to help you out. Kudos to him for that..!
Bill, Yeah, once in awhile I actually retain some bit of knowledge when I'm researching things I need to do on the car! SJDave has been a fantastic amount of help. Actually got me back, and focused on working on the car again.
So, I took it out again yesterday, couldn't resist. Plus I needed to check my adjustment on the shift linkage. On my first go kart I couldn't get it into second gear. It wouldn't pull all the way in. Adjusted the stops just a bit, and it now shifts really sweet! Surprising seeing as how I know the idiot that used this as his first transmission rebuild! Anyhow, it exposed another issue that needed addressing. The throttle was acting like an on/off switch. Impossible to feather at all. So I spent the entire afternoon trying a bunch of ideas to make the Fortes mechanical linkage operate better. It's not the linkage, again, it's the guy who installed it. Man the learning curve is steep when you don't have a clue! So I'll take it out again tomorrow, annoy some more neighbors, and see if my fix works. I'd have been done years ago if I didn't have to go back and redo just about everything at least once, but three times is usually required! Oh, and wait till you see the work on the new brake reservoir that SJDave did, holy crap! Using Nigel's suggestion to tap and glue the fittings in the ports on the plastic reservoir, Dave got it milled on his equipment, and made the sweetest bracket to mount it, like I told him, it's going to look out of place on my car! I'll try to get some pictures posted when it's done.
Rick,
It is awesome to see you making progress on your build. I'm really happy you stuck with it!
Dave
OttawaFFRer
07-22-2020, 09:34 PM
Agreed. Since rejoining the forum I've followed your posts in anticipation of picking up my 289. Good to see you found the comradery of the ffr community. Might be the best part of the experience.
rich grsc
07-22-2020, 09:44 PM
So, I took it out again yesterday, couldn't resist. Plus I needed to check my adjustment on the shift linkage. On my first go kart I couldn't get it into second gear. It wouldn't pull all the way in. Adjusted the stops just a bit, and it now shifts really sweet! Surprising seeing as how I know the idiot that used this as his first transmission rebuild! Anyhow, it exposed another issue that needed addressing. The throttle was acting like an on/off switch. Impossible to feather at all. So I spent the entire afternoon trying a bunch of ideas to make the Fortes mechanical linkage operate better. It's not the linkage, again, it's the guy who installed it. Man the learning curve is steep when you don't have a clue! So I'll take it out again tomorrow, annoy some more neighbors, and see if my fix works. I'd have been done years ago if I didn't have to go back and redo just about everything at least once, but three times is usually required! Oh, and wait till you see the work on the new brake reservoir that SJDave did, holy crap! Using Nigel's suggestion to tap and glue the fittings in the ports on the plastic reservoir, Dave got it milled on his equipment, and made the sweetest bracket to mount it, like I told him, it's going to look out of place on my car! I'll try to get some pictures posted when it's done.
That was one of the issues I had with mine. :(
Thanks Dave. It's guys like you on the forum, that help people out when they hit a wall, that make it possible.
OttawaFFRer, I think you'll have a little different experience that I've had. The FFR FIA kit brings everything together for you. Just don't shoot yourself in the foot with too many mods, I speak from experience!
Rich, I'm hoping that I may have figured where the problems were. At least I'll find out tomorrow if my fix worked. There seems to be a lot more pedal travel from idle to full throttle. I hope that allows for more feathering capability. I'll let you know.
rich grsc
07-23-2020, 05:44 AM
Rick, true you need to really slow down the throttle movement at the stacks by having more pedal movement. I had to play with ratio movement to help smooth things out. It's not like a carb where you only have to two throttle shafts and 4 butterflies, with stacks when you crack the throttle you have 8 openings and butteries ready to dump a lot of air and fuel quickly. On a carb, most of the time you are only use two opening and butterflies, so they need to open wide to feed fuel and air mix to the engine, on stacks a little opening in each makes a lot of difference quickly.
Yeah, I discovered it's going to take some time to get used to. I tried to make it have as much pedal travel from stop to OH S**T! as I could. Got some things I have to do this morning, but I hope to get it out this afternoon, and see if it made a difference.
Blue Viking
07-23-2020, 03:31 PM
Some throttle bodies have an asymmetrical disc pulled by wire that allows for much less movement at the beginning of movement. Going to look into that, but I'd rather keep the solid tube from the linkage if I can. Did you have to get a longer shaft for along the Firewall, or was the Forte supplied shaft long enough?
Norm B
07-23-2020, 04:03 PM
Rick, great to see you go carting. Progress will happen quickly now.
Some throttle bodies have an asymmetrical disc pulled by wire that allows for much less movement at the beginning of movement. Going to look into that, but I'd rather keep the solid tube from the linkage if I can. Did you have to get a longer shaft for along the Firewall, or was the Forte supplied shaft long enough?
I am looking at the possibly of doing an EFI throttle body cable disc/pulley mod for my Sniper. Right now the initial throttle tip in is more like an on off switch. Partly due to the problem Rick mentioned, 4 butterflies opening at once versus 2 on a carb and partially due to the geometry of the cable setup now.
Norm
Oystein, Everything that came in the kit from Fortes worked. Didn't need a longer shaft along the firewall. It could actually have been a touch shorter. Also, on the Speedmaster setup, it does have an asymmetrical disc pulled by a wire that connects to the shaft along the firewall using one of the lever arms. You would hope that this would make it easier to feather the throttle, but...no!
Norm, Thanks, it's good to feel like I'm actually making progress. I continue to try to solve the throttle issues.
So, yesterday I spent the entire afternoon trying to lengthen the throws on the throttle linkage to try to make the progression smoother, especially on take off in first gear. I also bent the throttle arm on the RT pedal to provide a bit more room between the throttle and the brake. I checked with Russ and he confirmed that it is bendable. I improved the geometry of the rod coming off the top of the pedal up to the main shaft along the firewall. Then I moved the connection out almost all the way to the end of the lever arm there. That effectively cut my throttle movement at the throttle bodies in half, so I had to remove the stop that I had put under the pedal to avoid pulling the cable too taught at full throttle. That gave me more pedal movement, and allowed the TB's to be opened up full. There's a spring in the asymmetrical cable pull on the manifold, but just to make sure, I added a return spring on the pedal as well. I couldn't ask for the mechanics of this to operate any smoother. So, I took it out for a quick kart this afternoon to test out my fix. I think I made the situation worse! I couldn't believe it when I'd try to take off in 1st. The car takes off and then just bucks like a bronco, not the 4 wheel drive kind, until you shift into 2nd. But trying to level out the speed in 2nd causes the same "bucking" problem to occur. Right now it's virtually undriveable. I'm going to have to do some more research to figure what is causing the problem. Based on everything else that I've done, just two or three more tries and I should have it figured out!
phileas_fogg
07-24-2020, 09:30 AM
Forgive me if I'm telling you something you already know, but you can slow the throttle response down by moving the attachment points to the lever arms in their slots. Move the attachment point for the pedal up as high in the slot as possible, as shown in the picture below. Move the attachment point for the throttle body down as low in the slot as possible, close to the pivot rod.
Hope this helps,
John
https://live.staticflickr.com/4329/35896130350_27f9aac11e_4k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/WG23X9)IMG_3593 (https://flic.kr/p/WG23X9) by jhsitton (https://www.flickr.com/photos/91016165@N07/), on Flickr
John, Always go with the idea that I don't have a clue, and you'll be right about 99% of the time! When I realigned my linkage arms I moved the one from the pedal to as high up in the slot as I could. I'll have to check, but I think from the throttle bodies it is also as high up in the slot as possible. I'm going to take a look at it today, and see if by using that combination of high and low I can get the throttle under control. My only concern is that by doing that I'm not going to have enough travel in the linkage to reach the full throttle distance. Thanks for the info!
OK, so I checked, and the leg from the throttle bodies was connected high up in the slot, probably the very end. The only way I could place it further down in the slot was to make a new piece for the end of the cable linkage coming from the throttle bodies. Not a big deal, just some time. Anyway, put it back together with the leg from the pedal in the very end of the slot, and from the TB's about in the middle of the slot. The problem is I now don't have enough movement in the lever arm coming from the TB's to pull the cable linkage through it's full travel. In other words, it's only opening to about half throttle. I know I've got to be looking and thinking about this wrong.
Does anyone see what it is that I don't?
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50149124006_174f805a08_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jpvnp5)20200724_134449 (https://flic.kr/p/2jpvnp5) by Rick Paul (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156322842@N02/), on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50148580388_4e5fa81454_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jpszNm)20200724_134430 (https://flic.kr/p/2jpszNm) by Rick Paul (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156322842@N02/), on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50148580338_07e17ce963_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jpszMu)20200724_134352 (https://flic.kr/p/2jpszMu) by Rick Paul (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156322842@N02/), on Flickr
Railroad
07-24-2020, 05:07 PM
Try taking up all the threads on the heim joint opposite the cable, loosen the bell crank that the heim joint attaches too.
Let the bell crank go forward until the throttle blades close. Tighten the bell crank back down on the shaft.
rich grsc
07-24-2020, 05:41 PM
I know it may not make much sense, but the first bell crank needs to be almost straight up, not leaning to the front of the car. You may need a longer threaded shaft:( Or better yet, flip both bell cranks 180*. I have mine facing down, not up.
Railroad, So shorten the cable leg by taking up all the threads? I'm not sure that will increase the distance of movement on that leg to get to full throttle travel at the TB's. I made a new piece to make the cable to the heim joint longer so that it could be connected lower in the slot. It just made the TB's only open 1/2 way with full travel of the peddle. The more I look at the setup, I'm thinking that I need to lengthen the top of the throttle pedal arm to get more distance of movement on that leg which will move the TB leg further. That would make the increments of travel of the TB's shorter with a longer input at the pedal leg. Man, I'm even confusing myself! I hope that makes sense.
Rich, you must have posted while I was typing. Putting the bell crank in the footbox straight up won't change the distance of throw based on the input from the pedal. I could turn the bell crank in the footbox 180*, but the one on the firewall would sit too low for a straight pull from the bell crank on the manifold. I need to find a way to get more travel at the pedal end corresponding to less travel at the TB end, but still achieve full travel for the TB's. I'll take a look to see if turning both of them is even possible, and see if it makes a difference. Who knows, certainly not me!
SJDave
07-24-2020, 06:15 PM
I think Rich has found the problem Rick, seems like all the bellcranks should start 30 degrees before the linkage and bellcranks arm are perfectly 90 degrees to each other. Then as you push the pedal you get maximum movement of the linkage at 30 degrees of rotation and movement continues for another 30 degrees. Or you could start at 45 degrees for less movement initially, and a softer pedal response, but it seems like all bellcranks should be sweeping through TOP DEAD CENTER if you will, you are starting after TDC and decreasing linkage travel as rotation continues.
I can help you work on this Sunday morning also after we get the reservoir mounted and exhaust hangers done.
I hope the EZ EFI is not another problem, as Rich and others have not had luck with it due to the entirely different Volumetric Efficiency of a stack system versus throttle body or a carburetor. Bucking is usually a sign you're running a bit lean, but maybe it's just your foot bouncing off the accelerator pedal.
Railroad
07-24-2020, 06:19 PM
If the pedal is bottoming out on the floor and neither of the bell cranks are fully rotated or bottomed out, you will have to change the ratio on the bell cranks. That will involve the slots on the bell cranks.
If the pedal arm has a slot above the pivot pin, moving the heim away from the pivot will increase travel.
Since Rich has a similar set up, you might save time with his advise. I am just working off your pictures. Still glad to help if I can.
rich grsc
07-24-2020, 06:31 PM
I think Rich has found the problem Rick, seems like all the bellcranks should start 30 degrees before the linkage and bellcranks arm are perfectly 90 degrees to each other. Then as you push the pedal you get maximum movement of the linkage at 30 degrees of rotation and movement continues for another 30 degrees. Or you could start at 45 degrees for less movement initially, and a softer pedal response, but it seems like all bellcranks should be sweeping through TOP DEAD CENTER if you will, you are starting after TDC and decreasing linkage travel as rotation continues.
I can help you work on this Sunday morning also after we get the reservoir mounted and exhaust hangers done.
I hope the EZ EFI is not another problem, as Rich and others have not had luck with it due to the entirely different Volumetric Efficiency of a stack system versus throttle body or a carburetor. Bucking is usually a sign you're running a bit lean, but maybe it's just your foot bouncing off the accelerator pedal.
Thanks Dave, you described why I think the arm needs repositioning. I often know what needs doing, but not exactly how to explain why.
I hope his system works with the EZ 2. It appears the injectors are below the throttle blades, the Borla system has them injecting fuel above the blades. The EZ 2 will NOT work with Borla, it acted just as his is now, like a light switch, it was on or off. When it came on it was so sudden your foot would jerk the foot throttle and it just got worse from there, stab the clutch and try again. And that didn't even account for how stinking rich it was.:mad:
I think I'm starting to see what you guys are talking about. I just can't process the why. Rich, if you could snap a picture of your setup I might start to see it better in my mind. The one thing I watched for once I got the engine running was it running "pig rich", based on what I had read. The one thing that I haven't had to deal with is fuel smell when it's running or after it gets shut down. I hope that a good sign. What's odd is that when you first take off from a stop, it starts accelerating smoothly, and then it starts that surging which makes it impossible. Thanks Dave. Maybe it would be easier if I trailered the car to your house! It would save you some travel time!
Thanks guys.
rich grsc
07-24-2020, 10:39 PM
I think I'm starting to see what you guys are talking about. I just can't process the why. Rich, if you could snap a picture of your setup I might start to see it better in my mind. The one thing I watched for once I got the engine running was it running "pig rich", based on what I had read. The one thing that I haven't had to deal with is fuel smell when it's running or after it gets shut down. I hope that a good sign. What's odd is that when you first take off from a stop, it starts accelerating smoothly, and then it starts that surging which makes it impossible. Thanks Dave. Maybe it would be easier if I trailered the car to your house! It would save you some travel time!
Thanks guys.
Fuel/exhaust smell isn't really a good indicator of how rich it's running. I'm out tomorrow(Saturday) with the club. I'll try to get some pictures, not the easiest now that's it's finished. I thought I had taken pictures of the linkage but I can't find them.:confused:
When I first got my car running I had similar issues. I resolved it by adjusting the timing table such that the timing advances very smoothly and just a few degrees until around 2000 rpm(Holley HP ecu). Unfortunately the EZ efi doesn't have that kind of tunability. I think you can only set idle, and wot timing and it interpolates between them. Seems like there is a vacuum advance setting too. If it's enabled it could be complicating things. You could try raising the rpm when wot timing comes in and that would slow down the advance curve. I know you can't data log that efi, but if you could have someone watch what the timing is doing on the handheld you may be able to see if that might be part of the problem.
Bob
Thanks Rich. Whatever you can do to give a bit of a visual. That always helps me get the idea better.
Bobl, thanks for that info. I'm a bit out of my league in this stuff. I wish I understood it better.
Thanks Rich. Whatever you can do to give a bit of a visual. That always helps me get the idea better.
Bobl, thanks for that info. I'm a bit out of my league in this stuff. I wish I understood it better.
If correcting the linkage doesn't sort it out I'd be glad to help walk you through things. It may also just need some driving to get the air/fuel adjusted. The base tune may be pretty far off. Perhaps have someone video the handheld dash and post that. Maybe we can see what is happening.
Bob
Thanks Bob. I'll try to make some adjustments to the linkage, and see how that goes. If it doesn't correct it I'll try to get a video of the hand held, and post it
phileas_fogg
07-25-2020, 03:57 PM
You may need to adjust the angular position of the throttle pedal level arm to get the travel you need. On my car I’ve got that lever set so that it hits the firewall just as the pedal hits the floor bracket.
John
rich grsc
07-25-2020, 04:29 PM
You can just barely see inside the foot box on the last picture. Don't know if they'll help, couldn't find a better shot inside the foot box.
As Bobl said, look at your basic setup, make sure everything is correct on your parameters. If it is running very rich, go back into setup, and change the injector size, increase the size by 10% then test drive to see if it leans out. Example, if it comes with 45# injectors, program the computer with 50#, that will lean it out.
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John, thanks, I'll take a look at that.
Rich, Thanks, the pictures do help. I noticed that your center pull on the manifold is similar to mine, and you figured out how to run a solid arm from the firewall out to it. I couldn't tell from the pictures how you made the connection. Anything specific that's necessary? A solid link at that point would definitely help make the movement smoother. Also, does that last leg to the center pull or push from the firewall?
rich grsc
07-25-2020, 09:05 PM
It pulls towards the firewall. I drilled a hole in the center pivot and just bolted a rod end through the hole. Enlarge the first picture and you can see the rod end through the circular pivot, comes up from underneath, a nut on the top side.
I going to have to revisit that and see if I can do something similar. Thanks.
Blue Viking
07-26-2020, 03:23 AM
You can just barely see inside the foot box on the last picture. Don't know if they'll help, couldn't find a better shot inside the foot box.
As Bobl said, look at your basic setup, make sure everything is correct on your parameters. If it is running very rich, go back into setup, and change the injector size, increase the size by 10% then test drive to see if it leans out. Example, if it comes with 45# injectors, program the computer with 50#, that will lean it out.
132451132452132453
I did mine yesterday, ans that's pretty much exactly the way I did it myself. Everything moves smoothly, but I feel the gas pedal is a bit heavy, so a little more adjustment to do I guess. Thinking of making a bracket to the central manifold pivot to lessen the force required, those springs are rather stiff.
Blue Viking
07-26-2020, 03:25 AM
I going to have to revisit that and see if I can do something similar. Thanks.
I did mine yesterday. It s bit more in the open than in Rich's finished car, I'll see if I can get some pictures too.
rich grsc
07-26-2020, 06:12 AM
I did mine yesterday, ans that's pretty much exactly the way I did it myself. Everything moves smoothly, but I feel the gas pedal is a bit heavy, so a little more adjustment to do I guess. Thinking of making a bracket to the central manifold pivot to lessen the force required, those springs are rather stiff.
I added extra springs so that it wasn't so sensitive, otherwise the throttle would 'blip' just hitting a bump because your foot would move.
Oystein, If you can get a picture that would be great.
Rich, Yeah, I added a spring to pull the pedal back to an idle position because it felt too easy to move and caused just what you're talking about.
Hopefully I can figure some things out today. I really want to put this behind me.
Blue Viking
07-26-2020, 11:47 AM
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Here are some pictures. I realize they may not provide any more info than Rich's pictures, but here they are nonetheless. With regards to pedal force, my issue is not a light pedal, but a slightly heavy one.
rich grsc
07-26-2020, 12:09 PM
Yep, thats almost exactly how I did my center pull..:D I would possible rethink mounting the pressure regulator directly to the stacks on the engine. My gut says engine vibration won't be a friend to it.
Blue Viking
07-26-2020, 12:20 PM
Yep, thats almost exactly how I did my center pull..:D I would possible rethink mounting the pressure regulator directly to the stacks on the engine. My gut says engine vibration won't be a friend to it.
The regulator came like that already mounted from the manufacturer, so I think I'll leave it like that, although you may have a valid point there.
Oystein, Thanks for those pictures. It does reinforce what Rich said..
Rich, Dave and I worked on the throttle linkage after getting the remote brake reservoir installed. As usual, it took my brain a bit to understand the "Why" when it comes to how the lever arms should be adjusted, but I finally came to an understanding as to why it took different positions in the slotted lever arms to get more or less throw. Seriously, I'm that dense! Anyhow, we repositioned the arms pointing down, and you are correct, it works better. We got it adjusted, but I didn't start it to see what the throttle response was like. I'm hopeful that it helps. We also looked at putting a solid link from the center pull to the firewall, and since I had an entire length left over from the original, I have enough to make that leg. I have to determine if there is enough clearance under the center pull to miss the mounting bracket, but that's for another day. Thanks for your help on this issue. I'll try to get some pictures to show what we did.
Thanks again guys!
rich grsc
07-27-2020, 07:10 AM
Good to hear, hope repositioning the arms help. You're really lucky to have Dave close enough to give you a hand. He helped me with understanding the Fast Sportsman system I use.
Man you are correct there! I don't see how there are enough hours in the day for him to do everything, and help all the people that he does. The guy is tireless, and I don't mean on his car!
Looks and sounds great! Hey, I'm only a week late in viewing this (out of town...). Aren't you glad you kept at it! (I'm glad you kept at it...)
Hey Al, thanks. I was lucky to have a whole lot of great people providing encouragement, and offers of help. I wouldn't have made it this far without this community.
Well, I was side tracked this morning, so when I got back to the shop, I didn't want to get started on the brake line reposition, and bleeding of the system, so I decided to see if I could make the solid leg to replace the cable that I had been using for the last leg to the throttle bodies on the linkage. Figured where the pivot point would need to be on the center pull, and drilled a 1/4" hole. The solid leg would not line up with the slotted pivot at the firewall, it was binding on the bracket that the center pull sits on. Made a small piece out of 1/8" aluminum stock to move the mount point out past the outer edge of the center pull. That helped, but there was still some binding. This is when I should have quit, but noooo! I thought, "you know if I bend this rod it will miss all of the interference, and I'll be golden!". Unfortunately this just made what was not working turn into a, well let's just say it was a mess. So I trashed half of the last piece of stock I had for this leg. I think the remaining piece is maybe 3/4" shorter, but I think it will still work with some adjustment. I going to look at moving the mount points for the center pull to eliminate the interference points. I just need to check that I won't screw up the spring load in the pull. Man I wish I knew when to quit when things aren't coming together. I know I'll figure it out tomorrow, just need to come at it from a different angle. At least I got the body flipped over on the body buck so I can do some things I've been needing to do.
Well, back at it today with a clearer head, and a good nights sleep. Realized that I had tried to mount the link from the firewall too far around the center pull, and it caused everything to bid, rub, and just create havoc. Took a closer look, re-drilled into the center pull, made a new extension tab for the mounting point, and "presto chango" I actually got the linkage to work with no binding, rubbing, and with full throttle range. It's a lot smoother without the cable in that last run, and it looks amazingly cleaner. Now I just wait for the collar clamps which arrive tomorrow, and other than moving the pedal stop, which is now out of position, I think I have won this little battle! I should know by now that it's a minimum of three attempts and configurations before anything is going to work on this car. So now it's on to re-positioning the banjo bolts and the flex lines on the front brakes, moving the flex lines on the rear brakes, bleeding the entire system, and I hope the brake will be complete. I do believe this is the third incarnation of my hose routing, so I'm hoping this time will fix it! Oh, and I'm also going to give Rich's e-brake adjustment method a try.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50164322218_200974fce2_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jqRgid)20200728_174541 (https://flic.kr/p/2jqRgid) by Rick Paul (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156322842@N02/), on Flickr
SJDave
07-29-2020, 09:45 AM
That is much cleaner than then cable arrangement for sure, well done Rick!
Thanks Dave. I wish I hadn't ended up drilling two holes in the center pull, but I made a slight miscalculation!
Blue Viking
07-29-2020, 11:33 AM
Thanks Dave. I wish I hadn't ended up drilling two holes in the center pull, but I made a slight miscalculation!
Don't worry. I did the same for the exact same reason. No one will notice, all they'll see are the stacks.👍
Oystein, That's what I'm hoping. Worst case scenario, I'll cut a machine screw down to about a 1/4" long, and epoxy glue it into the hole. If anyone notices they'll think it's actually there for a reason!
SJDave
07-29-2020, 05:40 PM
Rick I finished cutting and rewelding your exhaust hanger brackets to move them down 2" to align to the your sidepipes.
I think we're all set to install the RivNuts in the bottom of the 2" frame rail for the adjuster bracket to slide in and out.
Here's a pic of what it will look like after installation.
That looks fantastic! I look forward to getting them mounted and hooking them to the side pipes. It'll be interesting to see how much adjustment can be made to get the pipes parallel to the side rails. Thanks again!
Well, after a number of years where I knew that the flexible brake lines to the calipers needed to be re-routed, I finally got around to it today. I figured since Dave had made the bracket for the new remote reservoir, and we got that installed, I had no excuses for not fixing these lines, and getting the system bled. I had put some 90* fittings where it connects to the hard lines at all four wheels. No matter what I did the lines were always interfering somewhere, so I finally decided to remove all four. Everything works, and does not pinch, rub, or have any other problem. Unfortunately, in the process of trying to determine how to route the lines, the front PS line got pinched against the lower "A" arm, and I think I may have damaged it. So it looks like I'll be replacing that line. This has become a theme on my build, redo stuff, damage stuff while redoing, replace damaged stuff. I think I may have to put in the steering limiters that I purchased from Breeze. Wasn't sure I'd need them, but I don't want the front turning too far and pinching that flex line again! Now to get some things fixed on the body, get it back on the frame, and adjust the side pipes to see if I'm going to need any wedges from Breeze to get them to line up correctly. I'm going to seriously try to not continue with the previous theme of my build, and try to not damage anything else.
Hope everyone is staying safe!
So, I hadn't been able to work on the car much this past week. Had some work call in. Man, this work stuff really messes with my completion of projects on the car! Oh well, I guess it does help pay for stuff. Anyhow, I checked the flexible lines to see if there was any fluid leaking, and realized that when I was re-routing the lines the suspension was at full droop. Now with it back on it's wheels I decided to check the issues of the lines pinching again, and guess what, it doesn't come even close to the suspension parts! Yeah for me! I may have dodged a bullet here. Worst case, if I did damage these lines, I can go to banjo bolt fittings that have a 3AN or 4AN attachment point on them, and just use pre-made lines with AN fittings on each end. Thanks to NAZ, I didn't even know these existed. I thought that the flex lines always had the banjo fitting mounted permanently on one end.
Haven't got any work done on the car that I need. The garage has been about 100* every day, or I've had other things to take care of. Someone decided to punch the side mirror on my wife's MKX, and broke the attachment inside, so the mirror was useless, and nearly fell out of the housing. I ordered a replacement entire unit, but it won't be here for at least a week, so I decided to see if I could fix this one. As they say, even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile, I got it back together, and it actually works!
So tomorrow it's back to work on #7939. I'm closer than I ever thought I would be.