SN95 donor

[canuck coupe]

Hi everyone,
Waiting for my coupe kit. Early September. Planning to drive down from Toronto to pick it up. Hopefully the border will be open!

I'm planning a donor build, 3-link. I already own a '95 GT. It has been heavily modified for open track racing, but I lost the need for speed some time ago as the years advanced and the testosterone waned. The GT has been in storage almost continually for about 8 years. I thought about selling it, but the demand for such a machine is low in Canada (it's nowhere near street legal), and it wouldn't fetch much. Decided to part it out. Since I'm now building a Type 65, I could be my own best customer!

I've looked around the forums to try to sort out why FFR specifies '87 to '93 donors. It seems the only reason is the Fox width rear axle. :confused:

Here's what I hope to use. Please comment on any issues I might have:

1) Engine and transmission: the '95 has a 347 and a TKO600. I probably won't use either of them. I'm rebuilding a 302/T5 combo. The T5 will get an S10 conversion. Either way, there shouldn't be any issues, right?
2) driveshaft, yoke, etc (obviously I'll have to shorten it)
3) brakes: the '95 has 6-piston Wilwood 13" up front and 11.65 Cobra in the rear
4) pedal box, clutch quadrant, clutch cable, cable adjuster. From what I've read, there is likely to be a clearance issue with the clutch pedal, but doable.
5) front spindles and hubs
6) power steering rack
7) fuel tank, filler neck
5) rear axle. This is the one that I don't think I fully understand. Please let me know if this is correct. Rear center section and axle tubes are the same for Fox and SN95, but the actual axles are longer (hence wider) by about 3/4" per side. 17 X 9 wheels will fit. 17 X 10.5 are too wide for the body. If I want 10.5, I can get 5-lug Fox width axles from Richard at North Racecars.

Thanks in advance for your advice!
Philip

[michael everson]

Actually your longer 94-95 axle is ideal in the coupe. Most people add spacers to the 87-93 width on the Daytona. Everything else you listed will work fine with the exception of line 4. Pretty sure the Daytona chassis was not set up to use the Mustang Pedal box.
Mike

[canuck coupe]

Thanks for the reply, Mike. Very helpful.
Good news about the axles. They're Moser upgrades. It would be nice to keep them.

I don't understand your second comment (Pretty sure the Daytona chassis was not set up to use the Mustang Pedal box). Do you mean specific years of Mustangs (Fox)?

[David Williamson]

The Gen 3 frame is designed to fit the Wilwood pedal box and I don't think the Mustang ones will work. The instruction book only shows the Wilwood box.
David W

[jwhit]

cant use the sn95 spindles on gen 3

[canuck coupe]

Thanks for your comments everyone.

Summarizing, everything I listed will work except

1) pedal box. Does anyone know the differences between the Wilwood and Mustang boxes? Any work-around possible?

2) maybe the spindles. I have now learned that this is a hotly debated topic on the Mustang forums (people doing 5-lug conversions). Some say the '94-'95 spindles measure the same as Fox, some say they increase track about 3mm a side and change camber (slightly toward positive). SN95 spindles from '96 and on were definitely wider. Mine are '95, so they are either going to be just fine or just a bit off. I'll give it a go. It's not a difficult job to swap them out later if they don't work.

[David Williamson]

I would not mess around with the old Mustang spindles get the new 2 piece ones from FFR they improve the front end geometry and the car will drive much better with them. And as jwhit said the Gen 3 frame does not have the second bolt location for the Mustang spindles.

David W

[Jacob McCrea]

"Does anyone know the differences between the Wilwood and Mustang boxes? Any work-around possible?"

The Wilwood box is a dual master cylinder & balance bar setup, allowing you to 1) have different size master cylinders front and back, to adjust for different brake setups and whatever other variables apply; and 2) a balance bar to fine tune how much pressure gets applied to front vs. back brakes. The consensus seems to be that the Wilwood setup is much better for a race car. I'm sure you could install the Mustang box with some cutting, etc. but I think most would say you are taking a step backwards in terms of adjustability and performance.

[edwardb]

Also the Wilwood pedal box (1) Is purpose made for a hydraulic clutch, e.g. bolt in another master cylinder and you're ready to go. Factory Five provides parts to convert it to cable. Just don't use that stuff if you go hydraulic. (2) The pedal height is adjustable, and also the pedal location is adjustable by where you bolt on the pads. (3) Is intended for no power boost, so the pedal ratio is appropriate. The donor boxes were all boosted, so ideally you should adjust the pedal ratio if used without boost. All around the Wilwood is a better setup IMO and understandable to me why Factory Five made it the standard. It does put the master cylinders inside the footbox which is "interesting" for maintenance and gives some concern about what happens if something starts leaking. But I think the general experience has been positive. I've done both. SN95 and Wilwood. I prefer the Wilwood by a wide margin.


I would not mess around with the old Mustang spindles get the new 2 piece ones from FFR they improve the front end geometry and the car will drive much better with them. And as jwhit said the Gen 3 frame does not have the second bolt location for the Mustang spindles.

David W

Strongly agree with this. I've had both and the 2-piece has the proper geometry to drive significantly better. Had SN95 spindles (the good ones...) on my Mk3 build. I thought it drove OK with "not too much" bump steer. Really wasn't terrible. But next build with the 2-piece FFR spindles proved it wasn't good at all. Drove like a different car. I realize with a limited budget and the donor spindles on hand, it's tempting to go that way. I'd sure figure out some savings somewhere else if you have to. There are other things you can change or add after the fact. This one not so easily.

[jwhit]

Thanks for your comments everyone.

Summarizing, everything I listed will work except

1) pedal box. Does anyone know the differences between the Wilwood and Mustang boxes? Any work-around possible?

2) maybe the spindles. I have now learned that this is a hotly debated topic on the Mustang forums (people doing 5-lug conversions). Some say the '94-'95 spindles measure the same as Fox, some say they increase track about 3mm a side and change camber (slightly toward positive). SN95 spindles from '96 and on were definitely wider. Mine are '95, so they are either going to be just fine or just a bit off. I'll give it a go. It's not a difficult job to swap them out later if they don't work.

the base kit includes pedal box so i would not consider changing it the work great

[canuck coupe]

Thanks for the explanations and advice everyone. I'm convinced on both counts. I'll get the Wilwood box and the FFR spindles.

The only reason this is even up for discussion is that the list of parts deleted from a Canadian kit is quite extensive, hence my list of donor parts. I might as well use what I already have if it fits. And I still have to get coilovers, control arms... :( If it was legal to do so, I would have imported a complete kit.

On a more positive note, I almost finished my T5 rebuild today. A month ago, the contents of that box were mysterious and totally intimidating. Now I've touched every gear and bearing and synchro. Very cool :cool: and a lot of fun learning and wrenching! (actually, there isn't much wrenching. It's mostly done with hammers and a shop press).

[canuck coupe]

And Paul, now you've got me researching hydraulic clutches!

[Alphamacaroon]

also the pedal location is adjustable by where you bolt on the pads.

Wow. I never even considered this, but by golly it makes sense. I may have to play around with mine. And yes, hydraulic clutches are the way to go— slightly more expensive, but so much easier to setup (and maintain).

[Jeff Kleiner]

I was about to comment then read further and see that you have decided against the donor spindles. Thank you, thank you, thank you! The Coupe was designed around the FFR proprietary spindles and does not offer an alternate UCA mounting point for use with the Mustang spindles. Using the tall Mustang spindle and adapter combination with the Coupe results in the wonky geometry shown here:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131793&d=1594730510

Can you imagine the ridiculous camber curve that will occur when this suspension moves through it's travel? Good decision Phillip :)

Jeff

131793

[Briansshop]

Good info in this thread.

On my recent order,I was charged extra for the Wilwood pedal assy and the FFR 2 piece spindles. Through a couple emails,I was able to get it straight, both are included in the base kit.