Technology Behind the New 818

[Dave Smith]

Guys,

I can't help but crow about the technology behind the development of the 818. A lot of people brag about CAD stuff, but thanks to our very special relationship with Jeremy and the guys at SolidWorks, we have access to software and applications that no company our size has access to.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eymO56Gys1I

The 818 is benefitting tremendously from this relationship and with this car, I am pushing everyone here VERY hard to apply the latest technologies to accomplish the very ambitious goals of this car, both from a cost stand point and a "next level" engineering and quality level.

http://www.factoryfive.com/images/ffforum/spy1.jpg

http://www.factoryfive.com/images/ffforum/spy4.jpg

Here's a cool video of our SolidWorks partner Jeremy Luchini and his Let's Go Design program. We helped with the first stage of this project and have benefitted tremendously from the work.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCtDJGTv9EM

[Dave Smith]

We are going to try hard to animate the driver (with the new lowered seats) in the chassis once the body is selected and integrated to the chassis in CAD. I'm asking Jeremy if we can build a Wookie-sized guy for comparo.

[Mike N]

I'm asking Jeremy is we can build a Wookie-sized guy for comparo.

Easy, just scan Dave Hodgkins when he comes and visits :D

[Dave Smith]

Easy, just scan Dave Hodgkins when he comes and visits :D

PERFECT! Even better we can show him getting into one of the 1/4 scale models.... Hee hee..

[kach22i]

We are going to try hard to anuimate the driver (with the new lowered seats) in the chassis once the body is selected and integrated to the chassis in CAD. I'm asking Jeremy is we can build a Wookie-sized guy for comparo.

I went to the website mentioned in the first video.

http://www.3dscience.com/humanfactors/index.php

Says somewhere they can do a 5 to 95 percentile human figure. The 90% free cut-out I got elsewhere had the six foot guy just about sitting on the floor (seat bolted to the floor - no rails) using the same eye-level as the template.

Maybe some of the +6 foot guys can resort to a Gurney Bubble for their targa or coupe tops?

http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f152/saw-ford-gt-40-a-69347/
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Thanks for all of the updates, looks like you are on course.

[D2W]

Dave it must be great to build a product that is so much fun that people fall all over themselves to help you out with the latest and greatest. If you can't tell I'm just a little jealous:)

[D2W]

Dave. now that the seats have been lowered, has the rollbar been lowered too, or did it stay the same to accomadate the wookies?

[Dave Smith]

The roll bar is so dependent upon the body shape. As people know, we've been working concurrently (to the modeling) on an FFR version body to join the 1/4 scale model ranks for customer input/voting. The roll bar that was shown (tragically) in the Grassroots Motorsports magazine spy shot was only a mock-up for base dmensions against driver height, and has now been modeled using the above software. The point being that the roll bar may be a solo cage, a full width, a cowling matched unit with two humps, or somethign else dependent upon the body style selected. Hope that answers your questions as this process is being done in a deliberate and thoughful way with milestones and resulting nodes like roll bar/cage considerations at the proper time. The car HAS to be track capable (in the extreme) and that meant the chassis, no matter what body shape, must be adaptable to that requirement. Roll bar height is one of those really fine balancing acts because you have to serve two masters (at a minimum), safety and looks. We should be able to accomodate both without compromise.

[D2W]

Am I right to assume that there may be different rollbars for different bodies?

[Flamshackle]

Please just make it to fit me and my height blessed brothers! 6.4 for reference...

[Dave Smith]

One more thing... It is the job of a lifetime to be able to lead this group of very talented people and FUN in the extreme. I get a ton of satisfaction from watching the ideas and experience of this group come to bear on a project or goal and then seeing the integration of those skills, learned here hands-on over many years, combine with state-of-the-art tools, and empowered by a small company like no other... Watching that process is so much larger than myself or any one person. The 818 will be OUR greatest work to date and will bring the FFR experience to a whole new group of people, here in the U.S.A. and also around the world. In the end I have a secret plan with the car and FFR in general... The cars are simply the medium thru which this greater mission is accomplished. If you really pay close attention to everything I've written and said and done with FFR over the years, you'll find a constant there. If I'm lucky to die an old man, I will take great pride in the people who were brought together by way of these projects, cars, and lifestyles. We build projects, we build relationships, we build love and stoke and we turn metal and fiberglass into treasured time spent with a son or father... These things we make are not just things, they are the finely honed tools of the unknowing missionaries on the path of automotive performance salvation...

did you ask about roll bars? Dave Smith

[Dave Smith]

It is likely that different bodies will require different roll bars. I already see that happening in the scale models... How tall is Dave H.? I think he is on the Chewbacca side of 6'4" so we'll measure that wookie up tomorrow!

Wookie is a term of extreme endearment

[Oppenheimer]

...I have a secret plan with the car and FFR in general... The cars are simply the medium thru which this greater mission is accomplished. If you really pay close attention to everything I've written and said and done with FFR over the years, you'll find a constant there.

Wait, the multiple bodies/multiple drivetrains was NOT the secret plan? Well at least you successfully distracted us with the multiples stuff for a while.

The secret plan involves FFR in general, not just the 818? Let the wild speculation resume...

[D2W]

There was a statement made by your brother Mark in the first DVD that I got from FFR where he stated "Making a car or kit is the easy part, forging the relationships and friendships is what's really important" I'm paraphrasing of course but that statement told me everything I ever needed to know about Mark, Dave, and FFR.

[Rip Van Winkle]

Exactly D2W....I thought I found the secret 10 years ago, when I bought my Mark I. I almost missed it looking at other kits, but my wife encouraged me to go with FFR, because of one reason, the other owners. Now this statement, "I have a secret plan with the car and FFR in general", well I'm thinking what more? What you started, has accomplised much already Dave! But, heck...keep it coming....and I hope we all can keep up with you. LOL

[Draco-REX]

Please just make it to fit me and my height blessed brothers! 6.4 for reference...


It is likely that different bodies will require different roll bars. I already see that happening in the scale models... How tall is Dave H.? I think he is on the Chewbacca side of 6'4" so we'll measure that wookie up tomorrow!

Wookie is a term of extreme endearment
Good to know I won't need a sawzall when I build my 818. Us 6'4" guys need our space. ;)

[thebeerbaron]

Wookie is a term of extreme endearment

It's a warm & fuzzy term of endearment ;)

[Rockraven]

What about us Ewoks? (I'm 5'7"). :)

[David Hodgkins]

Ewoks? No worries!

The problem is on the other end of the spectrum:

http://ffroadster.com/images/Chewy/Episode_4_Han_Solo_and_Chewbacca_1.jpg

:D

EDIT: Actually, now that I look at him, Chewbacca is kinda wimpy. Wanna see a REAL wookie, in a setting we all can appreciate?

http://ffroadster.com/images/Chewy/ChewyAndHisCar-Med.jpg

Now THAT'S a Wookie!

:)

[Draco-REX]

When it comes to racing, us Wookies envy you Ewoks.

[Flamshackle]

I will take great pride in the people who were brought together by way of these projects, cars, and lifestyles. We build projects, we build relationships, we build love and stoke and we turn metal and fiberglass into treasured time spent with a son or father...

This is why I will build one... I have two boys (possibly more to come) can cant wait to teach them all I can while spending time together over a race project that is the 818 :D

Thanks for your unusual passion and ethos Dave Smith. Inspiring stuff!


When it comes to racing, us Wookies envy you Ewoks.

Not me! I am happy to be 6.4 and when Im running at my opposite playing rugby I thank the Lord for my size!

I feel confident after hearing all Dave/FFR's commitment to making the car a "world car" and to fit the blessed in height.

Embrace your height whatever it is! its the only skin we can wear.

[BrandonDrums]

My first child is on the way, a little girl due in Feb. She'll be involved with my build in some fashion. Hopefully she'll be too young to remember aka, I won't have to wait too long to get my kit.

You can add Wife/Daughter to the mix of relationship building with these things. My good friend had a good amount of help from his wife when he was building his Mk III and I intend to involve my wife and daughter on some level. My relationship with my wife will grow tremendously while I earn the WAF to start this project. All the chores I'm going to have to do for her, all the discussions about family planning and finances. But even once the project has begun, I hope to have my ladies there to help out with the build.

...Even if it's just getting me beer and telling me how good I am at doing all the work and how cool my friends are for wrenching with me ;-)

[Dave Smith]

http://ffroadster.com/images/Chewy/ChewyAndHisCar-Med.jpg
That's a Bad-A Wookie ride brother!

Seriously, the challenges of the 818 are many and I havent made it easier on the team by keeping the goals lofty and sticking by my philosophy "a man's reach should exceed his grasp"... But thanks for the constant questions, prodding, demands, requests, and attention to the design project. This time last year the 818 was discussed at SEMA as one of two ideas, with a small group of customers along with an extreme baja truck project. Now as we approach the SEMA show again, we are very close to and have made alot of progress on this idea-turned-car. I can honestly say that the planning, research, and execution of this project has been the best in the history of the company... We've done what we said we would do, we've kept the design goals clear and we've enlisted and taken advantage of the tremendous wealth of knowledge and expertise of the FFR community, suppliers, customers and leveraged our own 15+ years of experience (hows THAT for a run-on sentence!).

I am very close to the next node of body introduction, from which final prototype and pre-production of the first 818 model will happen. It has been less than a year and while we've kept the cards close to our chest, we will be going very fast very soon and a TON of work has taken place behind the scenes concurrently as the body design gets finalized and ready for you guys to take a say.

I should have mentioned more than fathers, and sons in these projects. Moms, wives, daughters (I have 3!) and friends, people whom we've lost along the way and this whole awesome community of people joined by the desire to build fast stuff and cars that aren't appliances!

[kach22i]

You can add Wife/Daughter to the mix of relationship building with these things.
Not exactly the same, but years later my wife still brags to people how she sewed two experimental hovercraft skirts for me. One skirt sewing was just the zipper connecting the side bag to the bow drape, but she is still very proud of her contribution several years later.

[16g-95gsx]

Did you say that the plan was to have a car on the ground for SEMA?

[BipDBo]

When it comes to racing, us Wookies envy you Ewoks.

For you Ewoks:

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[jimgood]

It is likely that different bodies will require different roll bars. I already see that happening in the scale models... How tall is Dave H.? I think he is on the Chewbacca side of 6'4" so we'll measure that wookie up tomorrow!

Wookie is a term of extreme endearment
I can see how you can still keep things modular before manufacturing by having the same basic frame with different rollbar configurations to weld to it. So, the "Swatch Watch" concept was really intended to apply pre-order, correct? I.E. the intent wasn't that a consumer could order one chassis with two bodies and apply whatever body he felt like driving on a particular day (week), right? Unless the rollbars are bolt-on.

[Dave Smith]

Honestly there are just too many variables to manage that would make a fully-changeable body shape work. The idea is the same chassis can serve four functions and so it's not a singular focused car like the GTM, but rather a platform that can serve multiple model purposing. so, yes, the specific model would be pre-order without the ability (perhaps one or two might be interchangable) to swap bodies fully.

[jimgood]

From a business perspective, I still think that serves FFR very well. Good on ya'. When are you guys going public? I wanna buy FFR stock! :p

[Twinspool]

From a business perspective, I still think that serves FFR very well. Good on ya'. When are you guys going public? I wanna buy FFR stock! :p
I don't want the products that are approved by a board of directors, those are everywhere. The focused visions of balls-out car nerds are what I need!

[Cooluser23]

Dave, thanks for listening, and posting these videos. I'd love to see more Solidworks coverage on the 818 build.

[NicksPapaw]

I think I am on to Dave's greater goal idea. Think about this: War is about to break out in some far off land. But wait, we can't kill those people. They are 818 builders like myself. I have chatted with them on this forum. Screw the war, let's have a car show instead! Clever man you are Dave! When you decide to run for office, give me a call. I will be in your camp 100%!!!

[jimgood]

I don't want the products that are approved by a board of directors, those are everywhere. The focused visions of balls-out car nerds are what I need!
Amen!

[Dave Smith]

Balls-out car nerds... :D

[Movieman]

Many years ago I heard this comment describing the differences between how GM and Ford did things:
" Committees are safe but they are seldom brilliant"
From what I've seen so far I'm impressed and a week from this saturday maybe I can sneak a peek at more..:D