Newbie saying hi & a question

[33fromSD]

Hi From SD

I ordered my 33 Hot Rod kit yesterday. Also talked with Blue Print Engines and think I have my engine / tranny combo picked out (just need to order it) and I also called Stewart Transportation so I have the low down on that process. Excited yet reserved.

I'm used to doing unibody rotisserie restorations on classic mustangs and 70s challenger and I am currently working on a frame off restoration of a 55 Ford F100 including all my own panel fitting / prep & paint so I'm assuming I will not have too many issues on this kit but I do have a few questions for the masses on this forum since you all have walked the walk (or are walking it currently) and have the experience.

My questions are as follows:

1) Given hindsight if you had to do it all over again what is the one or two things you wish you would have asked up front before starting your build, or one or two things you wished you understood better about this kit before starting?

2) What are some of the gotchas you were not expecting building your cars?

3) How responsive is FFR tech support?

Thanks All....I'm not expecting my kit until Sept / Oct so I have a few months to wait yet but I still have my 55 Ford to complete so I have plenty to do. I'll be hanging around here studying the build process / learning from you all in the meantime.

[Ernie67]

Hey 33,
Yes, this is a very exciting time. I built a MkIV Roadster, but these are things that are pretty general that you should know.
1. Find someone near you that has one or is doing one also. The manual can't possibly tell you everything you would like to know ahead of time, and is rather short on verbiage most of the time. A reliable Buddy can snap a pic for you or let you come over and taking a close look at how he got there is worth a million words and another manual.
2. You will find that as you follow the steps, at some point you will be taking it apart to install something that wasn't mentioned earlier in the manual. Don't let this get to you, walk away for a bit then re-focus. Also, expect to spend more money as you find neat things you want to do or add.
3. I think it depends on the day they are having. Sometimes they seems defensive and other times they are like "we'll send it free of charge-later Dude"-and the part shows up. I had this happen with a steering column (for another car) was sent with my kit. I could not get it to fit-like 2" too long- I talked to them for about 10 minutes while I was at the car and it seemed like they knew I had the wrong one. Just remember, they are getting bombed with questions from folks all over.

[33fromSD]

Sounds great Ernie67...good input.

On #2...Fully understand, doing years of restorations, I'm used to putting together / taking apart when you find something you missed or forgot. Heck on my 55 Ford F100 I'm coverting the 65 year old suspension to modern day suspension and I think I have installed / uninstalled parts on that at least 1/2 dozen times already and that is just during mock up. I still need to strip it off again once I'm done with mock up to sand blast / paint the frame only to reassemble everything again.

I guess my view on that is if you go into one of these kits thinking everything will be perfect and it will be a breeze to assemble, you're starting off with the wrong expectations.

Thanks again.

[NAZ]

With your experience you will breeze through the build, but as I'm sure you already know, the farther off the reservation you take your build the more time and $$ it will take. Most build their cars as FFR designed them while adding some personal touches. If that's your intent expect things to go pretty smoothly with only some minor hiccups to work through. You will also enjoy not having to deal with dirty, rusty, greasy parts -- that was a major plus for me. But you still have a ton of bodywork and unlike steel, you'll be dealing with body panels and body parts that aren't even close to symmetrical -- good thing you can only look at one side at a time as these cars are not straight.

In my case, FFR support has been good. I've really only needed their support on status of back ordered parts and returning parts not needed but they were very accommodating each time I called or emailed them. And I really couldn't expect them to be much help since I modified much of their design during my build.

Good luck with your hot rod.

[RoadRacer]

If you can, order full kit, not in stages. Stages was the only way I could afford, but it sucks - there are parts in stage 2 that logically should be in stage 1. You'll be go-karting sitting on garden cushions without seat belts or a steering wheel.:D

Read a lot of build threads. Everyone does things differently! Think hard about your option decisions. heater or AC. power steering or not. which seats. some of these you don't want to change if you can help it. will you want to modify the chassis? order without coating. I went for 3 link after a lot of reading. but you can spend as much as you want on go-faster bits!!! IRS, crate motors, fancy paint.. so plan a budget first and try to stick to it. I'm as cheap as I can be, and I still spent $5k more than planned. I bought junkyard rear, craigslist motor/wheels, and won't be painting yet still barely under $35k.

Everyone here is the most helpful, no *********s here, so you really can ask anything.

[33fromSD]

With your experience you will breeze through the build, but as I'm sure you already know, the farther off the reservation you take your build the more time and $$ it will take. Most build their cars as FFR designed them while adding some personal touches. If that's your intent expect things to go pretty smoothly with only some minor hiccups to work through. You will also enjoy not having to deal with dirty, rusty, greasy parts -- that was a major plus for me. But you still have a ton of bodywork and unlike steel, you'll be dealing with body panels and body parts that aren't even close to symmetrical -- good thing you can only look at one side at a time as these cars are not straight.

In my case, FFR support has been good. I've really only needed their support on status of back ordered parts and returning parts not needed but they were very accommodating each time I called or emailed them. And I really couldn't expect them to be much help since I modified much of their design during my build.

Good luck with your hot rod.

Thanks Naz

[33fromSD]

If you can, order full kit, not in stages. Stages was the only way I could afford, but it sucks - there are parts in stage 2 that logically should be in stage 1. You'll be go-karting sitting on garden cushions without seat belts or a steering wheel.:D

Read a lot of build threads. Everyone does things differently! Think hard about your option decisions. heater or AC. power steering or not. which seats. some of these you don't want to change if you can help it. will you want to modify the chassis? order without coating. I went for 3 link after a lot of reading. but you can spend as much as you want on go-faster bits!!! IRS, crate motors, fancy paint.. so plan a budget first and try to stick to it. I'm as cheap as I can be, and I still spent $5k more than planned. I bought junkyard rear, craigslist motor/wheels, and won't be painting yet still barely under $35k.

Everyone here is the most helpful, no *********s here, so you really can ask anything.

Thanks RoadRacer.... yes, my intention is to order the whole kit at once.... I have a couple garages for storage so it make sense just to get everything at once.

[FF33rod]

Congrats and welcome to the family - and it is pretty much a family/community just as Dave Smith suggests.
Everyone comes at this from a different place and has a somewhat different goal. Have you thought a bit about what your objective is - something to do? show car? if you explain a bit more of that you may get some additional responses.

As to your questions:
FFR makes mistakes but I'd say they are good at correcting them, once they realize they made a mistake. My take is that they get a ton of calls about problems and they've seen some very common issues that builders make so at the start of discussing an issue they tend to make assumptions as to what your problem is. Once you get past that, things move quickly to resolution :) They don't hesitate to replace parts if necessary.
The one thing I'd do differently is make bodywork a priority. Build just enough of the chassis to be able to do that body work - basic panel fitting and operation of doors, hood, etc. Leave panel gaps to the end though. This gets the messy and sometimes frustrating part of the build out of the way while your enthusiasm is the highest! ;)

Cheers and have fun! We look forward to watching your build and helping where we can
Steve

[33fromSD]

Congrats and welcome to the family - and it is pretty much a family/community just as Dave Smith suggests.
Everyone comes at this from a different place and has a somewhat different goal. Have you thought a bit about what your objective is - something to do? show car? if you explain a bit more of that you may get some additional responses.

As to your questions:
FFR makes mistakes but I'd say they are good at correcting them, once they realize they made a mistake. My take is that they get a ton of calls about problems and they've seen some very common issues that builders make so at the start of discussing an issue they tend to make assumptions as to what your problem is. Once you get past that, things move quickly to resolution :) They don't hesitate to replace parts if necessary.
The one thing I'd do differently is make bodywork a priority. Build just enough of the chassis to be able to do that body work - basic panel fitting and operation of doors, hood, etc. Leave panel gaps to the end though. This gets the messy and sometimes frustrating part of the build out of the way while your enthusiasm is the highest! ;)

Cheers and have fun! We look forward to watching your build and helping where we can
Steve

Thanks Steve....goog advice

Long winded response, but my intentions for this build are several:

1) Just looking for a fun build and to get out of the same old same old. I've done rotisserie restorations on 6 classic mustang, a 70 Challenger, a 69 Austin Healy, and now starting the frame off restoration on a 55 F100...as some one noted above I'm just looking forward to a unique build without dealing with tons of rust, grease, broken parts, etc. where I need to spend months / years getting to the point of having a clean slate. Don't get me wrong, I still love doing those restorations and will do other cars again, but I'm just looking forward to the experience of a "clean slate" in the sense of no rust, grease, etc.

2) I have 5 kids...4 boys & 1 girl and my youngest son (16) and my daughter (14) got into helping me with cars a few years back so I'm looking forward to them helping when ever they want. I love working with the kids and teaching them stuff about cars... they are to the age where Mom & Dad really don't know a lot but when we work on cars together it's different somehow, they actually hear what I am telling them and they absorb it. Kind of a special father / kids thing.

3) I looking for a unique vehicle to run round town that turns heads. My classic cars turn heads but lets face it, classic mustangs are a dime a dozen and driving the 70 challenger around just attracts the yahoos with newer challengers, vettes and mustangs who only want to race verses appreciate a classic. I've done the car show thing, again, nothing wrong car shows, but just not my thing. I want to build this thing in a fashion where if I choose to show it, it would get looks, but I'm not looking to trick it out to a point where I'm afraid to drive it.

4) Finally, I want something fun to drive, it doesn't need to be a monster, I just want a nice cruiser. I have too many cars to drive as much as I should now giving the short season in SD, so I'm not going to stick the best of the best power train into it since it will be wasted only being driven a few hundred miles a year, but I was a nice driver that looks good.

Thanks again

[peterh226]

Hi newbie - but you dont really sound like one! I did some basic bodywork to understand how it would all fit together before getting the go-cart ready to go. Now, as I fit the body on, I already know a lot of the areas to think about. Everything has been on and off lots of times. The instruction book provides guidelines - not rules! The instructions for assembling the parking brake are several pages. Some of the suspension felt like "Install rear axle assembly". The forums are a great help - but you need to choose the opinions that align with your goals. Check everything. I had some rear axle issues that required a new rear axle (handled for free and well done) as well as some better understanding of how the as-installed plan was set up (Pinion flange at about vertical at ride height as a starting point). The cascade of interactions is both fascinating and will drive you crazy. Drivetrain angle affects the exhaust clearance on the passenger side for example.
The folks on the forum are here to help and welcome anyone working to make one of these fun vehicles.

[33fromSD]

Thanks for the welcomes and all the advanced advise everyone, I appreciate it.

So I got my "required date" which happens to be my birthday (...how cool is that?). Per Stewart Transportation, it sounds like by mid-Sept the kit should be in my garage.

One question for the experts here...I see in the various forums people referencing build #'s (example Build #1132). When will I know that number? My sales guy said I'll get a welcome kit soon in the mail, will that kit have the build number. If not, where do I get that?

My configuration for my Gen2 Kit is this:
* Powder Coated Frame
* 302/T5 Blue Print Engines combo (ordered Friday)
* Manual Trans Pedal Box Components
* 28 spline 35.25" driveshaft
* Black Leather Bucket Seat Upgrade
* 4-Link suspension
* Gen2 Nose/engine cover kit
* FFR gauge cluster (interestingly enough these Dakota Digital gauge clusters are build in my town in SoDak)
* Paintable Tilt Steering Column
* Brushed Aluminum Hood or Trunk Handles
* Brushed Aluminum interior handles / cables
* Full Fender Kit w/ Running boards
* FFR Carpeted Floor Mats
* Gen2 HR 11.65 Rear Disc Brake Kit
* Mosier 8.8" 4-Link Rear End Assembly
* 18"x9 & 20"x11 Gray Bonneville Wheel / Tire Kit
* Sound Insulation Kit
* Spread Rear Exit Exhaust System
* Power Window Motor / Track Assembly
* Power Window kit
* Hot Rod Black Soft Top (w/ zippered curtains)

My thought process on powder coat frame is that I'm currently doing this 55 Ford F100 and I'm working on the chassis right now. I am to the point in the mock up where I about to strip off all the new suspension parts and sandblast the frame and send it for powder coat. It's going to cost approx $800 (+/- $100) to get it done and that does not factor in my time for prep (sandblast, body fill, deliver / pickup) so $499 for the FFR powder coated frame is a bargain and I don't have to do the prep work. :)

[RoadRacer]

If you have a date, you can probably call for the chassis number.

[JimLev]

Welcome 33fromSD, building the chassis was the best and easiest part. Cutting, fitting, and fixing the fiberglass is the hardest part, however you have more experience than most of us.
I think I spent more time on the roof than it took to build the chassis.
Your chassis number will be stamped on the frame tube just above where the steering column goes thru the firewall.
Good decision to have F5 do the powder coating.

[33fromSD]

100% real now....Just left the bank after doing wire transfers for both Factory Five and BluePrint Engines.....I'm the proud owner of a kit car and engine/tranny combo both of which that don't exist yet at this point. :confused:

Guess I'll kick off a build thread once I get closer to late Aug / early Sept timeframe.

[RoadRacer]

100% real now....Just left the bank after doing wire transfers for both Factory Five and BluePrint Engines.....I'm the proud owner of a kit car and engine/tranny combo both of which that don't exist yet at this point. :confused:

Guess I'll kick off a build thread once I get closer to late Aug / early Sept timeframe.

Yes, congrats! Build threads seem to traditionally start with a pic of a big fancy semi parked outside your house!

[33fromSD]

Yes, congrats! Build threads seem to traditionally start with a pic of a big fancy semi parked outside your house!

Very true... looking forward to that day.....but until then, there is no shortage of things to do.

[JOP33]

Welcome aboard! You will enjoy the fun-stration of your build. I don't know that this would apply to you (based off your experience), but I found knowing my limitations proved to be extremely beneficial to me throughout the build - and a little costly in some areas where I didn't recognize them. As others have mentioned, accept the manual for what it is - a guide. I was a little frustrated by it in the beginning...with some of the general interpretations or vagueness, but as the build progressed and I made changes, I finally understood how crazy it would be for anyone to expect FFR to outline a step by step manual of a vehicle that will be built in sooooo many different ways. Keeping YOUR goal and vision of the vehicle is paramount, no matter whether you are reaching out to a builder, FFR or a third party vendor - listen to all they have to say and then apply it as best as you can to your vehicle. Read other builders post and recognize their goals for their builds as well - it will give you a frame of reference when they offer you input. I like to pride myself on planning...I thought I had everything laid out for my build, what I found out was that because of my lack of experience in building a car, I spent unnecessarily on items at times that I could have waited on - I could have held off on my engine purchase for another three months or so. If I were to build my car all over again, knowing what I know now...It would have a 302, automatic transmission, no hard-top, no AC, no door pops and I would Line-X or Raptor the entire body for paint. I will end on this...it was (and will be) a BLAST! You will experience every emotion imaginable - sadness, anger, frustration, joy, hopelessness, excitement, regret, poverty (and yes that is an emotion) and will likely second-guess every choice you make (several times)...but the day you hear that engine start for the first time, is like walking on water! Just have fun and good luck!

[33fromSD]

Welcome aboard! You will enjoy the fun-stration of your build. I don't know that this would apply to you (based off your experience), but I found knowing my limitations proved to be extremely beneficial to me throughout the build - and a little costly in some areas where I didn't recognize them. As others have mentioned, accept the manual for what it is - a guide. I was a little frustrated by it in the beginning...with some of the general interpretations or vagueness, but as the build progressed and I made changes, I finally understood how crazy it would be for anyone to expect FFR to outline a step by step manual of a vehicle that will be built in sooooo many different ways. Keeping YOUR goal and vision of the vehicle is paramount, no matter whether you are reaching out to a builder, FFR or a third party vendor - listen to all they have to say and then apply it as best as you can to your vehicle. Read other builders post and recognize their goals for their builds as well - it will give you a frame of reference when they offer you input. I like to pride myself on planning...I thought I had everything laid out for my build, what I found out was that because of my lack of experience in building a car, I spent unnecessarily on items at times that I could have waited on - I could have held off on my engine purchase for another three months or so. If I were to build my car all over again, knowing what I know now...It would have a 302, automatic transmission, no hard-top, no AC, no door pops and I would Line-X or Raptor the entire body for paint. I will end on this...it was (and will be) a BLAST! You will experience every emotion imaginable - sadness, anger, frustration, joy, hopelessness, excitement, regret, poverty (and yes that is an emotion) and will likely second-guess every choice you make (several times)...but the day you hear that engine start for the first time, is like walking on water! Just have fun and good luck!

Thanks JOP33.....the good news is I pretty much do this all (including seeking help / listening to others) on my other restoration projects so for the 33 Hot Rod I'm sure I'll be asking a lot (since the day I know everything is the day I'm dead), sharing some of my own experiences, reading / digesting a ton from this forum and just feeling my way through the build.

[Svtfreak]

Thanks for the welcomes and all the advanced advise everyone, I appreciate it.

So I got my "required date" which happens to be my birthday (...how cool is that?). Per Stewart Transportation, it sounds like by mid-Sept the kit should be in my garage.

One question for the experts here...I see in the various forums people referencing build #'s (example Build #1132). When will I know that number? My sales guy said I'll get a welcome kit soon in the mail, will that kit have the build number. If not, where do I get that?

My configuration for my Gen2 Kit is this:
* Powder Coated Frame
* 302/T5 Blue Print Engines combo (ordered Friday)
* Manual Trans Pedal Box Components
* 28 spline 35.25" driveshaft
* Black Leather Bucket Seat Upgrade
* 4-Link suspension
* Gen2 Nose/engine cover kit
* FFR gauge cluster (interestingly enough these Dakota Digital gauge clusters are build in my town in SoDak)
* Paintable Tilt Steering Column
* Brushed Aluminum Hood or Trunk Handles
* Brushed Aluminum interior handles / cables
* Full Fender Kit w/ Running boards
* FFR Carpeted Floor Mats
* Gen2 HR 11.65 Rear Disc Brake Kit
* Mosier 8.8" 4-Link Rear End Assembly
* 18"x9 & 20"x11 Gray Bonneville Wheel / Tire Kit
* Sound Insulation Kit
* Spread Rear Exit Exhaust System
* Power Window Motor / Track Assembly
* Power Window kit
* Hot Rod Black Soft Top (w/ zippered curtains)

My thought process on powder coat frame is that I'm currently doing this 55 Ford F100 and I'm working on the chassis right now. I am to the point in the mock up where I about to strip off all the new suspension parts and sandblast the frame and send it for powder coat. It's going to cost approx $800 (+/- $100) to get it done and that does not factor in my time for prep (sandblast, body fill, deliver / pickup) so $499 for the FFR powder coated frame is a bargain and I don't have to do the prep work. :)

Welcome!

I see on your list that you have the power windows but no hard top. I think you should know that the power windows won’t fit up to the soft top. They are are made to fit to the hard top which the a pillar area is completely different than with the roadster windshield and the soft top.

[33fromSD]

Welcome!

I see on your list that you have the power windows but no hard top. I think you should know that the power windows won’t fit up to the soft top. They are are made to fit to the hard top which the a pillar area is completely different than with the roadster windshield and the soft top.

Thanks Svtfreak...yes, I learned that the other day after talking to Rod Tops so I called FFR yesterday, we canceled the power windows option and added the zippered side curtains for the soft top. Talked to Rod Tops directly after that, they confirmed they already saw the side curtains on their end too so we should be good.

I definitely appreciate you looking out for me though.

[33fromSD]

Got a surprising call today from a local transportation company. My Mosier 8.8" 4-Link rear end is arriving to my house tomorrow. I was not expecting that until mid-August.

It's cool some parts will start to ship, but I guess I better clean out a corner in the garage now so that I can use it to store parts as they arrive until my kit shows up early Sept.

If others ordered the Mosier rear end for your configuration too, did it show up sooner than you were expecting it?

[peterh226]

Mine showed up really quick as I'm only a few hours away from Moser!

[33fromSD]

Mine showed up really quick as I'm only a few hours away from Moser!

Thanks for the confirmation

[russwaggs]

A few things that I've run into that took either more effort than I expected or my own fabrication (Kit arrived right before COVID-19 shutdown in March):
- Make sure you utilize the supplemental instructions available at Factory Five Parts for any special configs not covered in the book.
- Take the time to complete a full, very thorough job of your parts list. Send any questions to FFR to make sure you get the right parts for your kit.
- Gas tank didn't fit. The back right bracket need to be cut off and I created my own bracket. FFR acknowledged that they have had that problem. Not sure if it's still and issue.
- I ordered the 32 grill and hood, which changes the front radiator to the truck radiator - which does NOT have a transmission cooler. That's a problem if you're running an automatic transmission, which I am. Still working to figure out the best mounting location - likely in the rear. Won't be a problem for you, but make sure you use those supplemental instructions.

All of my other issues / suggestions are related to my configuration with IRS, Coyote and 4R70 transmission.

[33fromSD]

A few things that I've run into that took either more effort than I expected or my own fabrication (Kit arrived right before COVID-19 shutdown in March):
- Make sure you utilize the supplemental instructions available at Factory Five Parts for any special configs not covered in the book.
- Take the time to complete a full, very thorough job of your parts list. Send any questions to FFR to make sure you get the right parts for your kit.
- Gas tank didn't fit. The back right bracket need to be cut off and I created my own bracket. FFR acknowledged that they have had that problem. Not sure if it's still and issue.
- I ordered the 32 grill and hood, which changes the front radiator to the truck radiator - which does NOT have a transmission cooler. That's a problem if you're running an automatic transmission, which I am. Still working to figure out the best mounting location - likely in the rear. Won't be a problem for you, but make sure you use those supplemental instructions.

All of my other issues / suggestions are related to my configuration with IRS, Coyote and 4R70 transmission.

Thanks for the tidbits russwaggs ...very much appreciated, and very helpful.

On the supplemental instruction available at FFR, i assume you mean on their web-site?.... or where would one find the supplemental info?

Thanks again

[TxMike64]

I believe russwaggs is referring to this: factoryfiveparts.com/instructions/ (http://www.factoryfiveparts.com/instructions/)

[33fromSD]

I believe russwaggs is referring to this: factoryfiveparts.com/instructions/ (http://www.factoryfiveparts.com/instructions/)

Ah... I see...Thanks