Header bolt recommendations

[tbl100]

Hi, I'm looking for new header bolts. I'm not real comfortable with the hardware store ones FF supplied. I have a Gen 2 Coyote with full length headers. I hear Stage 8's are very hard to install and uninstall so I'll steer clear of those. Pro's and Con's of different head types would be nice to know. I'm still learning. Thank you.

-Tim

[65 Cobra Dude]

Tim,

Stage 8 are a pia to install but worth the effort because they never come loose.

My $.02,

Henry

[tbl100]

Tim,

Stage 8 are a pia to install but worth the effort because they never come loose.

My $.02,

Henry

Yeah that's definitely a plus. I won't rule them out just yet. Thank you.

[Papa]

X2 for Stage 8 header bolts. Install them with a dab of anti-seize torqued to 20 ft. lbs. without the locking tabs. Heat cycle them a couple of times and re-torque. Repeat one more time and install tabs after re-torque and you're done messing with the header bolts.

[NAZ]

Stage-8 work well on small tube headers where there is room for them. For tighter spots I use ARP 12-point. But be advised that the gasket makes a huge difference in heat cycle loosening of the fasteners. I use Flatout gaskets and don't have to worry about locking fasteners.

[rich grsc]

Plain old 6-point ARP bolts, no gasket, only the copper high temp RTV, plus a small smear on the bolt threads. Almost 9000 miles none have loosened.

[Derald Rice]

Another stage 8 user. Have them on 3 motors, with zero failures. It's a fail safe system.

Easier to install stage 8's once and then have the confidence that I won't have to worry about it again.

[Bobby Doug]

X ? Stage 8. You cannot go wrong with them. Not as hard to use as you think. Forget the gaskets and use Ultra Copper instead. Over 5K miles and zero problems with header bolts or leaks.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I agree, Stage 8 work but are kind of fiddly and a pain to work with. I used to use them but several years ago started using Percy's/Taylor Vibe Lock header bolts and have been 100% satisfied. Install them, run through a few heat & cool cycles snugging them after each then engage the lock with a turn of an allen wrench and you're done.

https://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/xlarge/php-310001_xl.jpg?rep=False

https://www.summitracing.com/search/product-line/taylor-cable-vibe-lock-header-fasteners/part-type/header-fasteners?fr=part-type

Cheers,
Jeff

[cgundermann]

Agree with Jeff, I used Percy's/Taylor Vibe Lock header bolts and they are much easier to install than Stage 8 and I have not had them loosen up.

Chris

[Jim1855]

The Vibe Lock look interesting. $100 isn't cheap but often minimizing trouble is worth it. They look easy to use which is a plus.

I don't fully understand how they lock up and work but then I don't really understand color TV either. Yup, I'm challenged.

Jim

[tbl100]

I agree, Stage 8 work but are kind of fiddly and a pain to work with. I used to use them but several years ago started using Percy's/Taylor Vibe Lock header bolts and have been 100% satisfied. Install them, run through a few heat & cool cycles snugging them after each then engage the lock with a turn of an allen wrench and you're done.

https://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/xlarge/php-310001_xl.jpg?rep=False

https://www.summitracing.com/search/product-line/taylor-cable-vibe-lock-header-fasteners/part-type/header-fasteners?fr=part-type

Cheers,
Jeff

Interesting. Thanks.

[Jim Stabe]

I've used both the 12 point and 6 point. One advantage to the 6 point is you can use an open end wrench in places that don't have enough room to allow you to slip a socket or box end over the head.

[Bob Brandle]

Has anyone used or been able to obtain the Taylor-Percy's Vibe-Lock Header Bolts for a Gen 2 Coyote? I can't seem to locate anywhere the needed 10mm 1.25 or 10mm 1.5 sized bolts.
Bob

[edwardb]

Has anyone used or been able to obtain the Taylor-Percy's Vibe-Lock Header Bolts for a Gen 2 Coyote? I can't seem to locate anywhere the needed 10mm 1.25 or 10mm 1.5 sized bolts.
Bob

I've used both the Stage 8 and Vibe-Lock style header bolts in the past for small block builds. Did what they were supposed to do. But agreed I couldn't find either that were a good fit for the Gen 2 Coyote in my my 20th Anniversary Roadster build. Proper size Percy's or Stage 8 weren't available. Mr. Gasket serrated head available, but only 25mm long. I used McMaster 96144A261 Metric Class 12.9 Socket Head Cap Screw M10 thread, 30mm long, 1.25mm pitch. Put a dab of Ultra Copper silicone on the threads for locking and anti-seize and used Remflex 3069 gaskets. In its fourth season approaching 7K miles. Haven't touched anything and all is good. For my Gen 3 Coupe build with a Gen 3 Coyote, used similar bolts that came with the Gas-N headers and the same Ultra Copper silicone and Remflex gaskets. Early, but all good so far and expect it to be fine.

[rich grsc]

I've used both the Stage 8 and Vibe-Lock style header bolts in the past for small block builds. Did what they were supposed to do. But agreed I couldn't find either that were a good fit for the Gen 2 Coyote in my my 20th Anniversary Roadster build. Proper size Percy's or Stage 8 weren't available. Mr. Gasket serrated head available, but only 25mm long. I used McMaster 96144A261 Metric Class 12.9 Socket Head Cap Screw M10 thread, 30mm long, 1.25mm pitch. Put a dab of Ultra Copper silicone on the threads for locking and anti-seize and used Remflex 3069 gaskets. In its fourth season approaching 7K miles. Haven't touched anything and all is good. For my Gen 3 Coupe build with a Gen 3 Coyote, used similar bolts that came with the Gas-N headers and the same Ultra Copper silicone and Remflex gaskets. Early, but all good so far and expect it to be fine.
That's what I suggested, no need for $80 special bolts.

[edwardb]

That's what I suggested, no need for $80 special bolts.

Yup. I was agreeing with you. Just with more words. :o

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Reused the studs & nuts that came with the crate engine along with whatever gasket came with it (can't remember brand) believe they were FORD parts. 5 full years & 12600+ miles with no leaks or lose nuts. Car is driven almost daily year round.

[65 Cobra Dude]

Kevin,

Except for the nut behind the wheel! Sorry, couldn’t resist. Now back to your regularly scheduled program!

Henry

[edwardb]

Reused the studs & nuts that came with the crate engine along with whatever gasket came with it (can't remember brand) believe they were FORD parts. 5 full years & 12600+ miles with no leaks or lose nuts. Car is driven almost daily year round.

I agree the OE studs and nuts work well with little danger of coming loose. The challenge -- which will vary from build to build and model to model -- is getting the header over the studs and then access to tighten. Definitely something to check before dropping the engine in. Some use the studs but cut the length of the offending ones. Lots of ways to skin this thing.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

The Coyote with the shorty headers will drop in with the headers attached making that part easier.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130448&d=1593020196

Long tube headers are a different matter & agree have to be treated by application.

[tbl100]

I've used both the Stage 8 and Vibe-Lock style header bolts in the past for small block builds. Did what they were supposed to do. But agreed I couldn't find either that were a good fit for the Gen 2 Coyote in my my 20th Anniversary Roadster build. Proper size Percy's or Stage 8 weren't available. Mr. Gasket serrated head available, but only 25mm long. I used McMaster 96144A261 Metric Class 12.9 Socket Head Cap Screw M10 thread, 30mm long, 1.25mm pitch. Put a dab of Ultra Copper silicone on the threads for locking and anti-seize and used Remflex 3069 gaskets. In its fourth season approaching 7K miles. Haven't touched anything and all is good. For my Gen 3 Coupe build with a Gen 3 Coyote, used similar bolts that came with the Gas-N headers and the same Ultra Copper silicone and Remflex gaskets. Early, but all good so far and expect it to be fine.

The M10 grade 10.8 hex head bolts I got from FF are only 25mm long. The engine was purchased from FF as well and did not come with studs and nuts which it sound like normally comes on a crate engine. Anyway, should I be looking for 30mm length? I have Ford gaskets. Thank you.

[edwardb]

The M10 grade 10.8 hex head bolts I got from FF are only 25mm long. The engine was purchased from FF as well and did not come with studs and nuts which it sound like normally comes on a crate engine. Anyway, should I be looking for 30mm length? I have Ford gaskets. Thank you.

Your 25mm bolts should be fine. Since I had to buy new anyway, I went with the slightly longer ones since I had a choice and they fit. But you should still get plenty of thread engagement with the just over 1/8" shorter ones. As long as the gasket isn't crazy thick. I do really like Remflex though. I'm not alone.

[tbl100]

I've used both the Stage 8 and Vibe-Lock style header bolts in the past for small block builds. Did what they were supposed to do. But agreed I couldn't find either that were a good fit for the Gen 2 Coyote in my my 20th Anniversary Roadster build. Proper size Percy's or Stage 8 weren't available. Mr. Gasket serrated head available, but only 25mm long. I used McMaster 96144A261 Metric Class 12.9 Socket Head Cap Screw M10 thread, 30mm long, 1.25mm pitch. Put a dab of Ultra Copper silicone on the threads for locking and anti-seize and used Remflex 3069 gaskets. In its fourth season approaching 7K miles. Haven't touched anything and all is good. For my Gen 3 Coupe build with a Gen 3 Coyote, used similar bolts that came with the Gas-N headers and the same Ultra Copper silicone and Remflex gaskets. Early, but all good so far and expect it to be fine.

Did you use any kind of washers under the bolt heads? Thanks, Tim

[edwardb]

Did you use any kind of washers under the bolt heads? Thanks, Tim

No. Stage 8, Vibe-Lock and the bolts I received with my Gas-N headers were all flange head. So basically integral washers. The socket head cap screws referenced had large heads and no washers needed IMO. No OE engine I've ever worked on had washers. I don't think they're normally used on exhaust headers. Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong.

[rich grsc]

No. Stage 8, Vibe-Lock and the bolts I received with my Gas-N headers were all flange head. So basically integral washers. The socket head cap screws referenced had large heads and no washers needed IMO. No OE engine I've ever worked on had washers. I don't think they're normally used on exhaust headers. Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong.

Correct don't use washers on exhaust headers.

[tbl100]

No. Stage 8, Vibe-Lock and the bolts I received with my Gas-N headers were all flange head. So basically integral washers. The socket head cap screws referenced had large heads and no washers needed IMO. No OE engine I've ever worked on had washers. I don't think they're normally used on exhaust headers. Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong.

Ok, great. Thank you.

[tbl100]

Correct don't use washers on exhaust headers.

Thank you for the confirmation.