Ghost in my Gen 2 Coyote

[nuhale]

Wondering if anyone has had a similar experience and has a solve. Have a gen 2 coyote (last revision 2017). I followed EdwardB and others wiring and have run into a issue.

During my first start 2 months ago started right up. Came back to it a few hours later, turned the ignition, NOTHING. This is where it gets strange. My first attempt was checking wires for issues and found nothing. Checked the coyote harness pigtail and looks good. Put a meter on it and am getting a voltage signal when key is turned. Checked all fuses, wires, GROUNDS (figure this was the culprit). I even pulled the coyote pack out again (not easy with engine in) and inspected all the wires, grounds, connections etc. All looks good. I got it all back together, turned the key, NOTHING! I was wiggling areas and turning the key trying to located the area. Pulled the clutch safety switch wires, checked the switch all good. Back together and BOOM start. I turned the cutoff switch doing some other work and when attempt to start again after.. nothing. Back to the wiggle move. I wiggled the harness into the alternator, turned key and BOOM start. This happened a couple of times here and there over that week. I pulled the connection off the alternator, cleaned it up reconnected and it started. For the last month no issue and have not touched the master shut off. Messing around I turned the master off when doing sound proofing. Thought this was all behind me but now not starting again. Getting a ignition signal so whatever is going on is not behind the dash. I checked all grounds again. All fine.

Is my Coyote pack haunted?? What the hell is going on? I'm starting to think my computer is defective. HELP!

[nuhale]

Yes... battery is charged...

;)

[GTBradley]

I can say for certain you’re not introducing a problem by using the the electrical master switch. I have one on my car with a gen 2 Coyote and it is a true kill switch. It makes no difference to the engine in my case if I use it, though I have heard it clears the adaptive fuel memory, whatever that is. If I were you I would short the clutch wires for a bit to make sure the clutch switch doesn’t have intermittent connection issues.

[nuhale]

I don't think it's the electrical switch itself. Something funny happens when the system loses power and in my case when I throw the switch. I followed this wiring diagram

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130212&d=1592596110

[GTBradley]

So you have fuel pump and gauges, but no start, correct?

Have you read about bad Coyote harnesses? I just talked to a guy (toddhack) who went deep into it just to find out Ford hand sent him a bad harness.

This thread (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?29332-Coyote-starting-issues) didn’t resolve the issue, but there are some good basic troubleshooting steps by edwardb there.

[nuhale]

Everything seems to be in order. Good fuel pump, throttle, gauges, everything. Just no start when key turn. I'm gonna dig into the relay here in a bit to see if its there. The strange think is once It goes (for whatever reason is the cause) it does so every time no issue until I disconnect battery or throw the master switch. I may have to get Ford on the line as I have checked everything over. Just was hoping someone else had a similar experience.

[edwardb]

X2 on a deeper dive on the clutch interlock switch. Connecting the wires together and bypassing the switch and see if the problem repeats is a good idea. Two other things I'd check are (1) the Coyote pigtail SMR connection and confirm the RF blue wire has +12V when the ignition is in the start position. Could be the ignition switch. (2) Put a VOM on the small terminal on the starter solenoid and see whether you're getting +12V when in the start position. Obviously when it starts. But what about when it doesn't start? Maybe something going on with the starter.

[nuhale]

I checked the continuity of the clutch safety switch and it works fine. I did bypass this on a prior occasion and didn't do the trick. I did order a new switch just in case (only a $10 part) but meter telling me its functioning. Checked both pigtail lines for ignition and start (blue/green). Getting 12v on ignition on and 12v send when key to start position. Getting this regardless if the clutch switch is engaged or not.

Not getting 12v to starter on key turn. I thought too that it was a bad starter so went and picked up a replacement and it was not the problem (returned it). At this point I'm guessing this has something to do with a relay and the clutch switch in the PCB. Plan to give Ford Performance a call on Monday to see if they can help. At the point where I think I have a bad PCB as again spent 2 hours this AM checking all the leads and grounds. All appear to be in order.

[edwardb]

I checked the continuity of the clutch safety switch and it works fine. I did bypass this on a prior occasion and didn't do the trick. I did order a new switch just in case (only a $10 part) but meter telling me its functioning. Checked both pigtail lines for ignition and start (blue/green). Getting 12v on ignition on and 12v send when key to start position. Getting this regardless if the clutch switch is engaged or not.

Not getting 12v to starter on key turn. I thought too that it was a bad starter so went and picked up a replacement and it was not the problem (returned it). At this point I'm guessing this has something to do with a relay and the clutch switch in the PCB. Plan to give Ford Performance a call on Monday to see if they can help. At the point where I think I have a bad PCB as again spent 2 hours this AM checking all the leads and grounds. All appear to be in order.

That would be correct. RF system is going to send the +12V to the SMR wire in all cases. It doesn't know about the clutch switch. But the Coyote PCM does, and unless the clutch switch is closed won't energize the starter solenoid. Everything sounds normal to me. Good luck with Ford Performance help line. I've heard they aren't manning the phones. Only text or email I believe.

[nuhale]

Just went through the Ford control pack instructions again and everything is wired per spec. I checked all the relevant fuses and relays in the PDB and found something. The relay that controls the start is not getting a 12v signal when key turn. The switch lead has 12v from the battery so that's good. This has to be due to some kind of fault in the safety switch line. The switch is fine itself as tested it and also jumped it. At this point I'm gonna have to take the harness out and pull it apart again (did some surgery to the harness for best fit). I'm guessing something loose or severed which has my head spinning as I double checked everything before it went in.

Serenity NOW!

[nuhale]

Perseverance and TIME... PROBLEM SOLVED!!!

GD100 Eyelet Ground (J) which is the ground for the clutch safety switch was somehow not completing a circuit. BAD Eyelet connection mount by FORD. Removed, replaced and patched up quick for test and BOOM START.

It's only 2:30pm here and I'm declaring it MILLER TIME! Will clean up and reinstall tomorrow knowing I have it pegged. On to the next...

Thanks all for the suggestions!

[edwardb]

Way to go. Not happy for the defect you found in the Ford harness. But great to hear you found it. Amazing how many wiring issues trace back to ground problems.

[Nigel Allen]

I thoroughly agree. I reckon the ground faults are more memorable, as they are often the trickiest to track down. Grounds often require the constructor to engineer the connection, as opposed to a pin to pin connector that has a ton of engineering and testing behind it. Also, most ground connections are exposed to moisture and sometimes vibration. Regardless, it is a great find in this case.

Cheers, Nigel in South Oz