DDR Miami GT4 and GT8.... GTM competitor?

[shinn497]

Hello all,

I was looking for alternatives to the GTM and this one came up. It is called the Miami GT8 and it is made by DDR motorsport. It is interesting how similiar it is to the GTM. Both are tube frame, mid engine, LS powered cars with porsche transaxles. Both are made by american companies. Both are also 20k. Perhaps the largest difference is the look. The GTM evokes the Ford GT40 and the GT8 the Mclaren-F1 or the Coenigsseg CCR. In truth, I actually like the GT8's stylings better, but I wish that god awful hood scoop was more than optional.

There is also one big difference between kits. It is implied that the DDR GT8 can be constructed with a Corvette donor, but the kit does NOT come with aftermarket shocks (as opposed to the GTM which has conis) . I think this is a big difference. Indeed I don't kow how much faith I would put in a corvette for handling.

I think this company is newer to the scene. They have been around for 10 years, but the previous models were prototypes. I don't know if they were sold or not. In addition I don't see DDR motorsports getting the kind of praise that FFR has been. No magazine articles, TV shows, or even youtube videos. Unproven if anything. If I had the money to shop for a 20k kit supercar I would pic the GTM as it is a more proven platform. However I can't help but wonder what sort of potential the GT8 has and what that could mean.

Your thoughts?


BTW linkage http://www.ddrmotorsport.com/sp8.php

update: article with more pics

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/ddr-motorsport/2012-miami-gt-by-ddr-motorsport-ar112212/picture407982.html

I will say that I do like her bum more than a GTM and the access is super exotic looking, but that is all in how you paint it...

[crash]

Actually it really doesn't look comparable at all. There is a TON of stuff that FFR provides in their $20k kit that is not provided in THAT "kit".

You sure you aren't just advertising for these guys?

[shinn497]

I'm totally not advertising!!!!!!!!

Actually that is what I'm wondering. Which kit seems complete? The big thing I'm wondering is which kit would have a higher/lower cost to complete. Though FFR still mistakenly theirs at a possible 30,000$..... Which I do find farfetched given the cost of the transaxle plus donor...

[crash]

Seems pretty clear to me which one is more complete when you go and look at "What you need" on the link you posted. Yeah some things will be sourced from the "donor" Vette, if that's how that thing is supposed to be built. I don't know as it didn't really say how to put it together. Anyway, there are many things on that list that won't work from the donor, so it appears that the GTM is MUCH more complete. Frame looks pretty cheese ball also.

[VD2021]

There is not enough information on that site along with my overall perception for me (If I were trying to decide which to by) to send them my hard earned money.

Have you found many/any that have built it?

I hope it has AC (can't tell from the site) because I don't think the lexan goes up and down. Maybe you can take it off and throw it behind the seat.

You can only make a guess at what you'd spend building one of those. Maybe it will go together like a model kit, but I doubt it.

Are you sure you're not advertising? It just doesn't add up.

With the one exception of you're building a race car only, that kit doesn't compare to the GTM because it's still in the minors.

[beeman]

The GTM evokes the Ford GT40 and the GT8 the Mclaren-F1
Um, yeah, if "evokes" means "copies"... hold on, let me find my Webster's...

http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/jpg/201107/2011-miami-gt-by-ddr-moto-15w.jpg
http://img2.netcarshow.com/McLaren-F1_1993_1024x768_wallpaper_05.jpg

[skullandbones]

Why don't you wait until the "818" comes out and compare the GT8 to that? I think the 818 would win on style points if the sneak peaks are any indication. IMO. WEK.

[beeman]

I like this pic! Look how fast the rear end of that jet is moving! I mean, in comparison to the car, and of course, the front end of that jet!
Ok, I DO like the styling of this car, it's the first I've heard of it...
http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/jpg/201107/2011-miami-gt-by-ddr-moto-19w.jpg

[psycho]

good styling on it but iv got to stick to the GTM. unless its been tested and backs upwhat it can do then switching isnt much of an option. nw owning both is possible if its still around after my GTM gets built. might even have to use the same bored/stroked 3.6L V6 twin turbo setup on it and see which is better

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Probably the easiest way to determine if this kit is for you or not is to call DDR and talk to the owner. I had a customer who was interested in having one of these cars built for him. That was about 4 years ago. A phone call can be very enlightening.

[Stage7]

Probably the easiest way to determine if this kit is for you or not is to call DDR and talk to the owner. I had a customer who was interested in having one of these cars built for him. That was about 4 years ago. A phone call can be very enlightening.

Exactly. I called them numerous times and sent them a bunch of emails a long time ago. Vaporware. It does look interesting though...

[Kalstar]

I'm totally not advertising!!!!!!!!

Actually that is what I'm wondering. Which kit seems complete? The big thing I'm wondering is which kit would have a higher/lower cost to complete. Though FFR still mistakenly theirs at a possible 30,000$..... Which I do find farfetched given the cost of the transaxle plus donor...

Trust me the 30K can be done.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Trust me the 30K can be done.

While it might be possible, honestly, it's not realistic for 99.9% of the population. Unless you're lucky enough to find and buy a donor car locallly for an unbelievable low price that has every single item you need intact (including wheels & tires), and are able to sell off the unused parts for top dollar so that you make a significant profit off the donor......and buy a cheap used transaxle and clutch (and use both as-is)......and you do all of the body and paint yourself using very cheap paint and either don't use a paint booth, or have a friend that owns a body shop that will let you use his for free (and also lets you use all of the masking tape and paper you need for free)......no heat or AC option.....live next door to FFR so you don't have to pay for gas to pick it up or have a delivery fee.....do not use any heat or sound insulation at all.....have free access to all of the nuts, bolts, wire loom, heat shrink, solder, fluids, adhesives (windshield, carpet, suede, headliner, mesh install) you need......

Realistically now, consider this. If I order up a GTM kit with AC option, that is $20k kit + $1350 AC option + $1300 delivery = $22650. $30k - $22650 = $7350. That $7350 is your entire budget to buy transaxle, clutch, CV's Starter, engine oil, trans fluid, coolant, brake fluid, windshield adhesive, windshield primer, spray adhesive for carpet & suede, contact adhesive, silicone, wire loom, heat shrink, connectors/terminal ends, solder, electrical tape, nuts, bolts, rivets, washers, body filler, lacquer thinner, wax & grease remover, paint filters, sand paper, masking tape, masking paper, primer, sealer, paint, clear coat, zip ties, R134a & PAG oil if you're using AC, hose clamps, drill bits, etc, etc, etc.

Might sound like nickels and dimes until you actually pull out your wallet and have to buy all this stuff. By the time you buy the windshield primer and adhesive, you'll be out about $80. Buy enough spray adhesive to do all of the carpet, suede and headliner and you'll be out another $100 at minimum. Last I checked, a gallon of good clear-coat was over $400. I just received my order yesterday from McMaster Carr for absolutely nothing but bolts, washers and rivets. $180. The materials (no labor) for the last paint job (everything from masking tape & sandpaper to clear-coat) was $2400. Can you see that $7350 evaporating yet?

[flotowngtm]

Way to break it down Shane!!! People dont think about the small stuff.

[Jeff Collins]

good post Shane

[Kalstar]

While it might be possible, honestly, it's not realistic for 99.9% of the population. Unless you're lucky enough to find and buy a donor car locallly for an unbelievable low price that has every single item you need intact (including wheels & tires), and are able to sell off the unused parts for top dollar so that you make a significant profit off the donor......and buy a cheap used transaxle and clutch (and use both as-is)......and you do all of the body and paint yourself using very cheap paint and either don't use a paint booth, or have a friend that owns a body shop that will let you use his for free (and also lets you use all of the masking tape and paper you need for free)......no heat or AC option.....live next door to FFR so you don't have to pay for gas to pick it up or have a delivery fee.....do not use any heat or sound insulation at all.....have free access to all of the nuts, bolts, wire loom, heat shrink, solder, fluids, adhesives (windshield, carpet, suede, headliner, mesh install) you need......

Realistically now, consider this. If I order up a GTM kit with AC option, that is $20k kit + $1350 AC option + $1300 delivery = $22650. $30k - $22650 = $7350. That $7350 is your entire budget to buy transaxle, clutch, CV's Starter, engine oil, trans fluid, coolant, brake fluid, windshield adhesive, windshield primer, spray adhesive for carpet & suede, contact adhesive, silicone, wire loom, heat shrink, connectors/terminal ends, solder, electrical tape, nuts, bolts, rivets, washers, body filler, lacquer thinner, wax & grease remover, paint filters, sand paper, masking tape, masking paper, primer, sealer, paint, clear coat, zip ties, R134a & PAG oil if you're using AC, hose clamps, drill bits, etc, etc, etc.

Might sound like nickels and dimes until you actually pull out your wallet and have to buy all this stuff. By the time you buy the windshield primer and adhesive, you'll be out about $80. Buy enough spray adhesive to do all of the carpet, suede and headliner and you'll be out another $100 at minimum. Last I checked, a gallon of good clear-coat was over $400. I just received my order yesterday from McMaster Carr for absolutely nothing but bolts, washers and rivets. $180. The materials (no labor) for the last paint job (everything from masking tape & sandpaper to clear-coat) was $2400. Can you see that $7350 evaporating yet?

I agree Shane, and very good well thought out response. I also agree that for 99.9% of Joe public it is not realistic to assume 30K or even 40K for a well sorted car. For most, a home built GTM will be mid 50's. That said with extremely well outlined and thought out planning the GTM can be built at the number I spoke of. It all comes down to fanatical planning and bargain shopping.

Used kit (with a/c), used trans (with new clutch), the right donor and penny pinching can get you there. My build has been 4 years in the works, so if you don't mind waiting and have the time to scour for deals, anything is possible.

[skullandbones]

The professionals track cost accurately to protect the bottom line. We first time builders usually don't have a clue how much is spent besides the big ticket items. I am spenting $280 for sound and heat dampening. Didn't even cross my mind when I was calculating the cost of the build. So I am keeping all my receipts in a box and going back at the end to add them and create a modifier or "fudge factor" that will be added to every subsequent project. I'm betting to myself, it will be around 15 to 18%. In my particular case, I have wasted some money due to some sub par donor items (non donor would have saved). But the incidentals are the real culprits in this equation. Shane sort of itemized the pain for you. FFR does give you the best estimate of what is supplied by them that I have ever seen. Now that they have the complete kit options (ater #6046), it should be even better. WEK.

[crash]

Ok, alright...but back to the original topic...

I believe the GTM is a WAY more complete kit, with a WAY better proven track record, and a WAY better service and support community...which will translate to a much bigger "bang for your buck" by going with a GTM.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

I agree Shane, and very good well thought out response. I also agree that for 99.9% of Joe public it is not realistic to assume 30K or even 40K for a well sorted car. For most, a home built GTM will be mid 50's. That said with extremely well outlined and thought out planning the GTM can be built at the number I spoke of. It all comes down to fanatical planning and bargain shopping.

Used kit (with a/c), used trans (with new clutch), the right donor and penny pinching can get you there. My build has been 4 years in the works, so if you don't mind waiting and have the time to scour for deals, anything is possible.

Well put.....and what anyone who is planning an ultra-low budget GTM should keep in mind. The best way to accomplish your goal is to trade your money spent for lots and lots of time and patience spent scouring for the ultimate in deals on everything you buy......

[Kalstar]

Ok, alright...but back to the original topic...

I believe the GTM is a WAY more complete kit, with a WAY better proven track record, and a WAY better service and support community...which will translate to a much bigger "bang for your buck" by going with a GTM.

and it's ugly too.

[psycho]

my thing about the miami GT 8 is they cant even give u a rough estimate of what it will do. what the wieght of the car is, or even anything about the body styling of the car. how do you design and build a car to market when u cant tell your desired customers what thier buying?

[Movieman]

There's a couple points that haven't been brought up.
When you buy a FFR car you know exactly what your getting.
You've seen many builds and their outcome.
Then there's the people that constitute the company.
Speaking just for myself after reading 100's of threads, watching numerous videos, what comes across is charachter and the desire to build the best product they can.
I'm making a trip down to FFR in a couple weeks and yes, I want to see the cars but more than that I want to meet the people there that have won my respect.