View Full Version : Illinois Registration Process - Transfer of Ownership
nuhale
06-15-2020, 10:05 AM
I haven't been able to find a clear documented process on this site with experience in Illinois so thought I would do so to help anyone else having to go thru this. Closest has been EdwardB in Michigan.
To start there are still many unknowns so I will update as I progress.
Background: Purchased my 2010 MK4 June 2019 on eBay. The build was barely a rolling chassis and still had most the parts in original delivered FFR boxes. Received all parts (not much missing) and documentation from original owner. All his research, purchases, original FFR invoice and certificate of origin. Where this gets a little grey is that I did not buy or interact from this individual. My understanding is he traded this kit for another car project and signed over the certificate of origin. I bought from the person that acquired the kit in a trade. I have no documentation of this exchange. Starting to have a small amount of panic as the folks I bought from are not answering my emails about getting in touch with original owner in case I need any verification that this is not a sketchy situation.
I do have all documentation from my sale on eBay. This includes eBay auction information, certified check receipt and bill of sale from the seller.
At the time I did not think much about this as all paperwork was present and didn't think this would be issue as it's just some steel, panels and car part boxes. I purchased engine, trans, etc and with a year under me know I have prob 60+% of total cost outside of the eBay purchase. WRONG!
I reached out to the Illinois Secretary of State office and spoke with an individual that specializes in titling/registration of these vehicles. The phone number is 217-558-2406. If you buy direct from FFR and certificate of origin in your name the process is pretty straight forward.
TAXES: I have seen many conflicting messages with taxes. I didn't want to be penalized for not paying taxes so I did so for the eBay purchase and engine/trans using a ST-44. More to come on this specifically as I got the impression using the ST-44 process was not correct.
TITLE: In Illinois if the certificate of origin is NOT in your name for any reason you will need to title "obtained by bond". This requires a surety bond that is 1.5x the appraised value the FINISHED vehicle. In my case I own the engine/trans etc but still have to engage in this as completed vehicle. No grey areas in Illinois. There are several sources to obtain a appraisal including officer of antique vehicle club/assoc, price guides or insurance agent. I plan to use Midwest Classic. Robbin has been very helpful in this process. I then have to engage with a surety bonding source as my insurance company does not offer (Allstate). More to come on this process.
Sounds like you covered most of your bases. My first thought was you need to talk to the SOS office, but you did that. You might also want to connect with the IL Dept of Revenue about taxes. You have something on the order of 90 days to pay taxes on a vehicle you bring into the state, but even if you paid via ebay, it might be worth your while to give the tax people a call. RUT-25 is their form.
Robodent
06-15-2020, 04:07 PM
I’m kinda going thru the same deal here in Illinois. I bought a kit from a widow in Michigan I have a bill of sale and a certificate of origin in her late husbands name. Long story short I have to go thru a bonded title process here in Illinois.
I found a very nice lady at a title co. To help me get it all put together. I just sent my paperwork in last week. It’s a long story I will pm you with my cell #
Rob
nuhale
06-15-2020, 09:43 PM
Thanks for the feedback! I'll update once the process unfolds on taxes. I did pay taxes on the eBay purchase (less than original sale with FFR in 2010) and the Engine/Trans etc I bought from Mike Forte. I used the ST-44 forms online. Actually got a bill for late penalty and paid that as well as they require taxes paid within 30 days of sale. Again as stated in the post start I'm getting the impression that this was not 100% correct as the SOS office sent me a RUT-50 form (Private party vehicle use tax transaction). The person I spoke live with said something about paying taxes once build is complete. Not sure this is established yet as tons of posts about others in Illinois getting penalties on taxes because they didn't pay once receiving the kit or engine, etc.
More to come...
Thanks for the feedback! I'll update once the process unfolds on taxes. I did pay taxes on the eBay purchase (less than original sale with FFR in 2010) and the Engine/Trans etc I bought from Mike Forte. I used the ST-44 forms online. Actually got a bill for late penalty and paid that as well as they require taxes paid within 30 days of sale. Again as stated in the post start I'm getting the impression that this was not 100% correct as the SOS office sent me a RUT-50 form (Private party vehicle use tax transaction). The person I spoke live with said something about paying taxes once build is complete. Not sure this is established yet as tons of posts about others in Illinois getting penalties on taxes because they didn't pay once receiving the kit or engine, etc.
More to come...
Not sure who told you to pay tax after the build is complete, but that approach resulted in a penalty for me. They want you to pay at time of purchase or when you bring the vehicle/parts into the state. My tax guy recommended I write a letter requesting that they remove the penalty, but it didn't work.
FLPBFoot
06-16-2020, 05:19 PM
I too didn’t pay taxes right away on the kit purchase. I saw a couple posts on the forum and the paid about 6 months after delivery. Got a nice penalty and interest charge to boot. Learned my lesson on the engine from Blue Print. Paid the taxes right away. BE SURE TO KEEP COPIES OF ALL YOUR PAPERWORK, ST-44 FORMS SUBMITTED AND YOUR CANCELLED CHECKS! IL failed to credit my payment on the motor and held up my registration. I had to prove to the IL IRS that I paid and they then had to send notice to the Sec of State to release the tax hold on the registration. That delayed the whole process by over a month......uggghh!
nuhale
07-15-2020, 07:38 PM
Update 7-15-20
First big thanks to Rob (Robodent) in pointing me in some really helpful directions. He too is going thru this Illinois surety bond BS so I imagine we won't be the last.
The bonding process still is a royal pain but Rob put me in touch with a person that specializes in these types of things (mostly salvage titles but similar process). Her name is Mary Radzik 847-878-2006. Also put me in touch with an appraiser that was very willing to work with me on the appraised value. In this case the lower the better as Illinois requires 1.5x the appraised value in surety bond so I was actually smiling at the $21K apprasal. This bond costs $20 per $1K so I'll be happy eating the $600.
Mary will handle all the paperwork and do the legwork on the surety bond. I had to laugh a little as the insurance company was talking about how this was a big bond (guessing they typically deal in salvage situations). Imagine if I got the real appraisal value of $50k or so...
The appraiser is Ronn Pittman Telephone 630-879-7393. Nice guy and specializes in custom vehicles. He knows the program here in Illinois so knew I was looking for low number. As I said.. "willing to work with you". He does these out of state so anyone else in this situation outside of Illinois I highly recommend.
Today I sent in photocopy of DL, Illinois forms, appraisal and some other documents showing the purchase of the vehicle including the original certificate of origin. I'm hopeful that this is all and that this issue quickly goes away. Already heard back from insurance company on bond requesting some further info but should be "no problem". Was told that the paperwork in Illinois is moving about 6-8 weeks lead time. Guessing the visit from state police to inspect and rivet VIN on is separate so fingers crossed I will have 7275 on the road in September.
nuhale
07-15-2020, 07:42 PM
TAXES
I guess this one is a little tricky. They are telling me that it is by year of car and as this will be titled as a 65 I only had to pay half of what I did. Wondering if I'll get to claim overpayment to Illinois for state taxes next year.
phileas_fogg
07-16-2020, 09:13 PM
TAXES
I guess this one is a little tricky. They are telling me that it is by year of car and as this will be titled as a 65 I only had to pay half of what I did. Wondering if I'll get to claim overpayment to Illinois for state taxes next year.
I'd let that sleeping dog lie. The last time I challenged a state tax assessment (1988 MA state income tax), they found another $100 I owed. As a GS-07, that was a full month's discretionary income! :mad:
John
nuhale
08-03-2020, 11:47 AM
Update: 8/3
All paperwork was submitted 7/28 to the state. Now a waiting game but welcomed as I have to FINISH the build. Expecting a call from the state police on scheduling inspection in the coming weeks. I'm in the home stretch so shouldn't be a problem. The paperwork didn't look to be all that complicated but identifying the right documents to use, what to input to and where to send it was the problem and having the power of attorney that knows this was worth the fee. Mary is highly recommended for a bonded title situation.
Update: 8/3
All paperwork was submitted 7/28 to the state. Now a waiting game but welcomed as I have to FINISH the build. Expecting a call from the state police on scheduling inspection in the coming weeks. I'm in the home stretch so shouldn't be a problem. The paperwork didn't look to be all that complicated but identifying the right documents to use, what to input to and where to send it was the problem and having the power of attorney that knows this was worth the fee. Mary is highly recommended for a bonded title situation.
Good news! ILPBFoot and I each waited about 10 weeks, which isn't so good; perhaps you'll fare better!
nuhale
08-03-2020, 05:40 PM
10 weeks... ouch.. Lets hope not. The person I used said they are running about 6weeks for inspection the another 2 for state paperwork with the salvage vehicles she does. Maybe she has some special voodoo with the state. One of the bigger benefits of using this person is that she has friendly relationship with Springfield. I didn't make such a good impression with them on my first phone calls so maybe it gets done next year. :mad:
nuhale
08-19-2020, 01:29 PM
Got the call late afternoon yesterday that state police had appointment for today 8/19 11:30am. Jumped on it. Had some work to do to get the car in inspection "shape" so was a late night. Officer was super nice and even called to give me notice that is 10min away. I have heard some talk about tough inspections but my experience was quite easy. Didn't really check anything. Just wanted to know where to put the tag. He didn't like my choice and ended up putting in on the upper cross member where the FFR frame serial number is... actually... OVER IT. O'well. I have a picture and have the other plate I plan to rivet in the engine bay.
Next step is to wait for title paperwork to clear which should take a week or 2 then 7275 will be road approved!
I'm shocked that I got thru this step a little over 3 weeks from when paperwork was submitted.
Gumball
08-19-2020, 01:35 PM
Congratulations!!!!
I was really amazed that, in this day and age, the government actually lets us build these rockets and put them on the road, but I'm certainly not going to second guess them on their decision!!!!
nuhale
08-19-2020, 01:46 PM
Officer wasn't even a car guy... Said NICE PORSCHE!!!! I simply said thanks as not to upset the "man". :)
Wouldn't know as the car is now registered as a 1965 "Factory Five MKIV Roadster" Just happy I got the 1965 designation as to avoid emissions testing.
Jeff Kleiner
08-19-2020, 02:49 PM
Congrats! Happy to hear that you got through that SNAFU :)
Jeff
Got the call late afternoon yesterday that state police had appointment for today 8/19 11:30am. Jumped on it. Had some work to do to get the car in inspection "shape" so was a late night. Officer was super nice and even called to give me notice that is 10min away. I have heard some talk about tough inspections but my experience was quite easy. Didn't really check anything. Just wanted to know where to put the tag. He didn't like my choice and ended up putting in on the upper cross member where the FFR frame serial number is... actually... OVER IT. O'well. I have a picture and have the other plate I plan to rivet in the engine bay.
Next step is to wait for title paperwork to clear which should take a week or 2 then 7275 will be road approved!
I'm shocked that I got thru this step a little over 3 weeks from when paperwork was submitted.
One of the many benefits of virtuous living! :)
nuhale
08-20-2020, 02:58 PM
Taxes Update:
This one is very strange. With many folks talking about taxes & penalties I bit the bullet last year and paid taxes on my eBay purchase & engine. Both legit things to do. Given the bonding process the state is not looking for sales tax?? Just a general fee based on year of car, which again is a bit unclear given that it is labeled as 65' but... not..
They took my taxes paid and just applied it to my application as "lets call it even" so I guess I overpaid??? Wonder what happens when I claim tax overpayment in my state filing next year! In the end I don't think this solves the great mystery of taxes when buying a partial build in Illinois as I'm guessing Springfield doesn't know how to deal with it.
nuhale
08-26-2020, 01:53 PM
Recieved my temp tags just a bit ago. Closing this thread for now as the process appears to be complete.
All in all was not such a pain once I was put in touch with Mary as she pretty much handled the whole thing. I was very surprised at the speed. I was expecting 8-10 weeks from paperwork submission given others experience with just the ol' regular process. Figured my unique situation would tack on some weeks. Turns out it was 3 weeks to inspection and another to get title and registration complete.
I'm done typing... time to DRIVE.
#7275 is finally street legal (maybe not 100% road worthy yet) after 10 years.