HELP PLEASE--Cannot title nor register in Florida

[Jeff's First FFR]

Hi all--hope everyone is healthy,
The rules have changed in Florida this year. I cannot get a tilte nor register my Mk4 in Florida. In order to title a repllica the manufacturer must me registered in Florida. Factory Five Racing, FFR, F5R etc is not registered with Tallahassie (government). I have talked with several kit people and no one has been successful in geting a title or registration in this year 2020 since the law changed. Florida has many catagories for "different" cars in Florida:
Antique: more than 25 years old with a VIN...for show use only
Custom: modified car with a VIN---for show use only
Street Rod---created from parts with VIN---for show use only
Kit Car: a kit body on a frame with a VIN
Assembled from parts...titled as a 2020 not a 1965 (when going to another state it will have to have 2020 equipment.
Replica: manufacturer must be registered---VIN assigned and titled as year it resembles, a 1965.

I cant get a title until I have a VIN. I can't get a VIN because FFR is not registered.

Anyone have any ideas? I really would like to drive it.

BTW, i checked the rules before I bought in 2018 and REPLICA was valid then. No fair; but then whoever said life is fair?

Jeff

[emac]

If you dont find a work around maybe register it in another state, then transfer title to FL. Maybe sell it to a friend or relative in another state then buy it back. SC was pretty easy to register mine....in 2012!

[wallace18]

You can title it, just not as a 1965 replica at this time. Some have had success at certain DMV's with replica title. Most not. The law change in 2019. Dave Smith is aware and has contacted SEMA for help. Not sure of time frame for any of that to change anything. Assembled from parts will work as a title for now. It will be listed as the year you bought the kit.

[jlfernan]

I went to a local COUNTY run DMV and initially had the same trouble. In the drop down menu on their computer FFR does not appear as a valid vehicle manufacturer. They ended up entering it manually and it went through. When they run his VIN, the serial number assigned by FFR, they receive an error message on their end, but in their opinion, as long as it goes through you're good. He walked out with a title, registration and tag. If you need more explanation, PM your number and I'll call you.

[Jeff's First FFR]

Hi there,
Yeah, thought of another state. My sons still live in California. Senate Bill 100 lets 500 people a year register anything thy want as any year, just need inspection for safety. Shoulda stayed there.
Anyway, supposedly one can title a car in Vermont even if not live there. Have to pay VT taxes. Then go to F and change tit.e/registration. Sounds risky. Sometimes FL doesn't accept out of state title for "kit" car.
I'll keep trying.
Jeff

[Jeff's First FFR]

Hi,
I talked to you on the phone the other day. Thanks again for your help.
Jeff
BTW who paints your cars?

[wallace18]

Hi,
I talked to you on the phone the other day. Thanks again for your help.
Jeff
BTW who paints your cars?

Who are you asking this?

[Papa]

Sounds like the Assembled from Parts option should work. Colorado does the same thing, and my title reflects "Assembled Vehicle". It's titled as a 2017, the year of manufacture on the certificate of origin provided by FFR. This cost me a pretty penny when I titled it two-plus years later and had to pay the registration fees for each of those years in addition to the current year. Every state seems to struggle with these in one way or another, and you need to be prepared to "help" your DMV understand the laws as they only may see one or two a year at most in some offices.

[mcwho]

I am in Floida I agree with some prio comments, it depends a lot on which DMV you use. I did my Title back in 2011 or so when I was still building. Did some false starts like Hillsboro was worthless. Finally got it done at he DMV in Sanfod Florida. I wonder if the missing category is an oversight?

I like what jlfernan said, I would find out whgich DMV he used. I also had bette luck with the full svc county one in Sanfod.

Bob

[CraigS]

I would concentrate on getting it titled as a 65 if any way possible. I bought my MkII in Georgia where it was titled as a 2005 and brought it to Md. The 2005 vs my previous 1965 MkI caused a $150 bump in my insurance. The state titled it as a 2005 which wasn't a problem until I moved to Va. Their computer system saw the 2005 and kicked out a requirement for an emissions test. No way around that. It took me over a month to go high enough up the DMV org chart to get to someone who could change the title to a 1965. That was specific to VA at that time (2014) but comments here over the years make it apparent that a 65 title is a big advantage in many states.

[Jeff's First FFR]

Thank you,
Yes, there is a huge advantage to keeping it a 1065. Especially if I were to go to another state. I intend to get it titled as a 1965 one way or another!
Dave Smith said that he and SEMA are working on the issue. Don't know how many years or $$ it will take.
Jeff

[Badfish]

Amazing what the state governments do to prevent and limit these cars, considering the small quantity compared to production cars. Mixed results in Connecticut on registering as a 1965, although the DMV provisions now allow for it since ~2009.

I've voiced my pain and concern here on Connecticut as well. Here they also levy a vehicle properly tax annually, and increased my tax 1800% in 2019! Since my car is registered as a 2004 and not 1965, the assessor decided last year, out of the blue with no substantiation, to financially abuse me on a 17 year old kit. Do your best to get it registered in the year of the body style. Good Luck!

I need Dave and SEMA's help too: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?32888-CT-Owners-Beware-Motor-Vehicle-Assessment-Tax-Increases!

[Desert Cobra]

Know anyone in Oregon? They may be able to title there. I have done a number of high value cars and RVs there for flat fee (no tax) far below my resident state.

[RBachman]

If you dont find a work around maybe register it in another state, then transfer title to FL. Maybe sell it to a friend or relative in another state then buy it back. SC was pretty easy to register mine....in 2012!
Dittos. I'm also in SC and it's not that difficult. SC tends to be a bit more reasonable. But I'm not sure on out of state applications? You may need a SC address to get a VIN and then transfer to Fl.

Edited to include this:
emac, so happy there's not a big orange cat paw painted on the hood. I know how the upstate likes those big orange paws, 😂

[RBachman]

Thank you,
Yes, there is a huge advantage to keeping it a 1065. Especially if I were to go to another state. I intend to get it titled as a 1965 one way or another!
Dave Smith said that he and SEMA are working on the issue. Don't know how many years or $$ it will take.
Jeff


Jeff, I'm pretty sure SC will title it as a '65.

[Just puttering]

The hard part of using a western state is getting the car moved, Oregon will want to see the car to check the vin, they did on mine.

[davekp]

The hard part of using a western state is getting the car moved, Oregon will want to see the car to check the vin, they did on mine.

Not necessarily.
I just sold a car (I'm in Florida) to a buyer in Oregon. Oregon accepted a VIN verification be a Florida LEO while the car was still in Florida, and issued a registration to the buyer.

[JOE A]

I recently (Feb. of this year) completed my title and registration in Florida (West Palm Beach area) for my Daytona. Until FFR gets it's act together with the state of Florida (not SEMA), you will not be able to register as a Replica. It is classified "Assembled from Parts". and the year is the year you bring it in. Bring all the paper work including receipts for major items and a weight slip, to your local "Motorist Services" office. They will review the paper work and schedule a time to bring the car. The car is there only for the inspector to apply the VIN number to the car. There is no inspection of the vehicle (I have no wipers). They then seal the paperwork for you to then bring to a DMV office for issuing the title and registration.

[broku518]

I live in Florida, but moved here from Illinois. The transfer was very easy and no pain.
Have it registered as 1965 and pay $45 every 2 years.

[broku518]

I recently (Feb. of this year) completed my title and registration in Florida (West Palm Beach area) for my Daytona. Until FFR gets it's act together with the state of Florida (not SEMA), you will not be able to register as a Replica. It is classified "Assembled from Parts". and the year is the year you bring it in. Bring all the paper work including receipts for major items and a weight slip, to your local "Motorist Services" office. They will review the paper work and schedule a time to bring the car. The car is there only for the inspector to apply the VIN number to the car. There is no inspection of the vehicle (I have no wipers). They then seal the paperwork for you to then bring to a DMV office for issuing the title and registration.

Hello, are you in Jupiter? I am here as well :)

[wallace18]

Here is link to Florida TL48

https://www3.flhsmv.gov/dmv/Proc/tl/tl-48.pdf

Hopefully something with SEMA or FFR can do something about this. SEMA has more political clout than FFR being a small business in MA. IMO.

[JOE A]

broku518 - I live in Tequesta in TCC area.

[Just puttering]

Not necessarily.
I just sold a car (I'm in Florida) to a buyer in Oregon. Oregon accepted a VIN verification be a Florida LEO while the car was still in Florida, and issued a registration to the buyer.

In that case, you can go ahead and use my oregon address, no smog required!

[mcwho]

Mine is titled as a 65/FFR this was done in 2012 as I was building it.

[Jeff's First FFR]

UPDATE
Dave Smith and two folks at SEMA are working on it. They want to keep REPLICA for the low volume manufacturer of complete cars not kits. However, at this time I don't hold much hope. Assembled from Parts (ASPT) doesn't work for me. CUSTOM and STREET ROD are for show and parade only. Only REPLICA fits. There ins not category for homemade cars; however there is a category for home BOATS. Go figure.
Jeff

[Turbo]

got a Kentucky title transferred to florida yesterday. the vin number is a ffr # F5R--------HR. the make is listed as FACT. and the best part is 1933. odometer status is listed as EXEMPT. they had to do some work to find the vehicle weight which is listed as 2,200. now waiting for grundy to send policy info to get a antique license plate and off we go. thanks FFR for a great product.

[Badfish]

Jeff - do you know the contacts at SEMA? I have the generic email addresses on from their website.

I may need to gain their help in flighting the Composite car property tax here in CT. Thanks.


UPDATE
Dave Smith and two folks at SEMA are working on it. They want to keep REPLICA for the low volume manufacturer of complete cars not kits. However, at this time I don't hold much hope. Assembled from Parts (ASPT) doesn't work for me. CUSTOM and STREET ROD are for show and parade only. Only REPLICA fits. There ins not category for homemade cars; however there is a category for home BOATS. Go figure.
Jeff

[Papa]

I've been following this and can't get past a couple of things. Other than "wanting" to title the car as a 1965, which is evidently no longer an option in your state, what is the issue with following your state's process that looks like the Assembled From Parts option is all you have? Thinking about impacts of moving to another state wouldn't be my first concern. I brought a car to Colorado from California many years ago. The car had a salvage title in California and Colorado titled it clean. Every state has pros and cons. My FFR is registered as a "Kit Car" in Colorado and titled as an assembled vehicle, which exempts me from emissions testing. It also means higher taxes, etc., but that's what Colorado allows. Colorado wouldn't call it a "roadster" unless it was a single seat, so mine is listed as a convertible. I really don't care as long as I can put a plate on it and drive it. If I move to another state, I'll follow whatever that state's process is. I think I'd focus on getting it titled and drive it and worry about the rest when/if it ever becomes a real issue. Sorry if I'm coming across as a jerk, it's not my intent. I just wouldn't expend effort and get frustrated over something that I likely can't change.

[Joel Hauser]

Have you seen APPLICATION FOR CERTIFICATE OF TITLE FOR A MOTOR VEHICLE OR MOTORCYCLE ASSEMBLED WITH A MOTOR VEHICLE KIT, TL-41? It is dated 3/6/2020.

https://www3.flhsmv.gov/dmv/Proc/tl/tl-41.pdf

Near the end is Exhibit 3, which [I think] says you can register a kit car if you include an affidavit in which you affirm the car will not be driven daily:

"The following is only required if the motor vehicle kit is also a replica: An affidavit stating the motor vehicle meets state equipment and safety requirements that were in effect in Florida the year the vehicle was built to reassemble; the vehicle will not be used for general daily transportation, but will be maintained for occasional transportation, exhibitions, club activities, parades, tours, and other functions of public interest or similar uses."

Why can't you simply write an affidavit which reads, "I affirm that the motor vehicle meets state equipment and safety requirements that were in effect in Florida the year the vehicle was built to reassemble; the vehicle will not be used for general daily transportation, but will be maintained for occasional transportation, exhibitions, club activities, parades, tours, and other functions of public interest or similar uses."

Note that they use the phrase "built to reassemble" which makes no sense at all. I am assuming it is a typo, and should read "built to resemble". Our cars were built to resemble a 1965 shelby cobra, weren't they?

Good luck
Joel

[Big Blocker]

Sorry but I have to agree with Papa here (post #28), you are putting too much emphasis on it being registered as a '65 Cobra - it's not. It's a replica of a '65 Cobra, "Assembled From Parts". Sounds to me as if they have that catagory . . .

When I got my car registered in Nevada back in 2003, there were no "Replica laws" on the books. I had to get it registered as a 2003 "Assembled Vehicle" to be legal for the street. That wasn't a big deal to me at all, as I just wanted to get it out there and enjoy it as much as possible. Two years later, Nevada adopted the SEMA Replica recommendations and I re-registered it as a 2003 / '65 Cobra Roadster that was exempt from smog laws - their designation, not mine. FWIW, I never had to have it smog tested anyway, the DMV decided that my engine was from a '65 model FORD (289 block) and was exempt anyway. The Replica designation only made that easier as I no longer had to take it in every year for a safety inspection. Now it's all done on-line for $45.

Just my 2¢

Doc

[Badfish]

I didn't care what year mine was registered as, until the property tax assessor decided in 2019 that my 2004 'composite' should be levied a $1150 annual property bill, an 1800% increase after 14 years. A 1965 would qualify for historic plates and a fixed, low assessment. I've been unsuccessful challenging and appealing the assessment.

In 2009, CT DMV did revise their provision to align with 'year the body style most closely resembles', however not sure all have been successful in getting 1965 at inspection. I'm trying to get mine retitled, but not successful to date. Maybe SEMA can assist, cuz I'm not sure I can break the CT tax corruption ring.