When to order the engine/ trans

[bldr.rob]

Good morning!

We've ordered our roadster complete kit and have a completion date of 6/20! I have not ordered the other parts yet that are needed to complete the build but wanted to see what you folks think is the best time to order the engine/ trans? We are looking at going with the Blueprint 427 and Tremec 500? Any thoughts, ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I'll be working on this with my son after work and on weekends to give you an idea of our time we will be putting in. We are also going to the build school 6/12-6/14.

Thanks

Rob

[rsw81]

I'm so jealous you are going to the build school; wish I could have before starting mine. Depending on your timeline, you can certainly wait on the engine/trans purchase. I purchased a complete kit last summer and like you am only working on it at night and the occasional weekend with my two young sons. It's been slow for me as my sons are only 5 & 7, so I do a lot of prep at night for them to do some basics during the daytime with me. How old is your son?

I have yet to purchase the engine/trans and don't intend to for quite a while. It seems there is plenty of work to do before hand, so I've been plenty busy. I'm going with a Coyote engine, so less of a big deal to not have the gas pedal set up before hand as it's throttle by wire instead of cable.

Rob

[BradCraig]

Once you get into the build you'll get an idea of when you'll need it, work back from there and order it. Warranty period is something to consider, although some suppliers have done a warranty start date delay to remove that concern. I was in no hurry so I waited until I needed it to order it.

[FLPBFoot]

Timing is related to how fast you plan to build. Also consider the build time for the engine. I have a Blue Print 427 with TKO 600 and at the time the build time was 5 to 6 weeks and the special trans I ordered, 0.64 OD, took another week or so for them to get. I think these are a more common item for them so less of an issue now. As for warranty, they started it after my first start and go cart. They are pretty flexible. They have also gone to a 36 month warranty so less of an issue as long as your are building at a reasonable pace. Mine sat around for about 3 weeks until I was sure I had everything done before installing it. Things get very tight once the motor goes in.

Are you planning on carb or EFI?

[Jim1855]

As others have mentioned, waiting to order the engine & trans until a bit further along is a good idea. Same for tires, they age w/o using and you want them as fresh as possible.

I'd also bump to the TKO-600 as it has a higher torque rating. I don't think the price increase is anything major.

Most of the rear gears are in the 3.73 range. After a bunch of miles in previous cars I like 3.27/3.31 gears and have the 600 with the .64 OD. I would recommend spending time with the gearing calculators and making an educated decision.

Jim

[Ducky2009]

The Tremec 500 and 600 are the same price, but the 600 has a higher capacity rating. Not sure why you want a 500.

Also carefully consider 5 gear overdrive ratio. Your choices are overdrive of .64 or .82. You could be turning a lot more RPMs at highway speed.
Assuming a 3.55 rear end ratio and a 25" tall tire.
70 MPH with a .82 means you'll be turning approx 2,740 RPM
70 MPH with a .64 means you'll be turning approx 2,140 RPM

[bldr.rob]

I'm so jealous you are going to the build school; wish I could have before starting mine. Depending on your timeline, you can certainly wait on the engine/trans purchase. I purchased a complete kit last summer and like you am only working on it at night and the occasional weekend with my two young sons. It's been slow for me as my sons are only 5 & 7, so I do a lot of prep at night for them to do some basics during the daytime with me. How old is your son?

I have yet to purchase the engine/trans and don't intend to for quite a while. It seems there is plenty of work to do before hand, so I've been plenty busy. I'm going with a Coyote engine, so less of a big deal to not have the gas pedal set up before hand as it's throttle by wire instead of cable.

Rob


Thanks for the quick response! I spoke to the build school this morning and they are going to open back up on 6/8 (provided things don't get locked down again). My son will be 18 in a couple of weeks. We were hoping to get this back in May so we could have the whole summer to work on it before he goes off to college but Covid....... My thoughts were to wait as well but wasn't sure what most did. I haven't talked to Blueprint yet but will call them to see what build times are looking like as well

Rob

[bldr.rob]

Once you get into the build you'll get an idea of when you'll need it, work back from there and order it. Warranty period is something to consider, although some suppliers have done a warranty start date delay to remove that concern. I was in no hurry so I waited until I needed it to order it.

Thanks! Good point to consider the warranty period. Hadn't thought about that. I'll be sure to ask when I talk to them.

[bldr.rob]

Timing is related to how fast you plan to build. Also consider the build time for the engine. I have a Blue Print 427 with TKO 600 and at the time the build time was 5 to 6 weeks and the special trans I ordered, 0.64 OD, took another week or so for them to get. I think these are a more common item for them so less of an issue now. As for warranty, they started it after my first start and go cart. They are pretty flexible. They have also gone to a 36 month warranty so less of an issue as long as your are building at a reasonable pace. Mine sat around for about 3 weeks until I was sure I had everything done before installing it. Things get very tight once the motor goes in.

Are you planning on carb or EFI?


Thanks for the info. I wasn't sure how long it would take them to build and ship. I'll be sure to ask. I also didn't realize ther was much to thnk about with the OD.

I'm planning on carb

Thanks!!

Rob

[bldr.rob]

@Jim1855 and @Ducky2009

Thanks for your responses! Sounds like common consensus is to wait on the purchase of the engine/ trans and to go with the 600. Also, thanks for the information on the gearing and OD. I hadn't even thought about that stuff. Noob here. We are actually going to drive up to the build school, from Austin, so we'll have plenty of windshield time to research our options. We did order the Standard 8.8 rear axle from FFR so, not sure what those gears are yet.

Rob

[KDubU]

I think someone already mentioned this but check with them on availability as many vendors of any product seem to be short or delayed on shipping product not sure whether drivetrains are experiencing the same.

[FLPBFoot]

Thanks for the info. I wasn't sure how long it would take them to build and ship. I'll be sure to ask. I also didn't realize ther was much to thnk about with the OD.

I'm planning on carb

Thanks!!

Rob

Rob,

Not sure if you have seen Dave Smith's YouTube videos? There is an early one about engines in the Roadsters. He talks about the Blue Print 427 and how they put an 850 double pumper on it to get high dyno numbers. He goes on to say he has set up two for his friends and has pulled off the 850 and gone with a 750 with vacuum secondaries to improve drivability. This is exactly what I did with mine. The 850 is too much carb for that engine and drivability was an issue. I love the engine with the 750 and it actually made about 5 more rear wheel horse power going down to the smaller carb. The dyno guys tried to use the 850 and went down 8 jet sizes and still couldn't get it lean enough. Also BP puts on the 22 inch oval Cobra 1 inch high filter. That filter will only flow around 500 cfm....very restrictive. I went with a round K&N Xstream filter top and 3 inch filter. It flows well over 850 cfm so little to no restriction. I really like the look of the large oval Cobra filter but not at that huge restriction on air and power reduction. FYI, they dyno'd it with the oval and had 340 rear wheel hp. With the K&N it produced 404 RWHP...a huge improvement. 128593

Other than that the Blue Print motor has been great.

Steve

[Avalanche325]

I agree with everyone else. Find out the current lead time. You don't need the engine for quite a while. Go for a 600.

A far as the air cleaner goes. If you do a Cobra oval, immediately throw the 1" filter away and get a taller one. https://www.sbfilters.com/ makes a taller one that fits the oval and is cleanable / reusable like a K&N. Check with the 351 based guys on how much space you have.

From testing that I have seen, the absolute best filter for power is the filter top like ILPBFoot shows. In the test, they did a run where they taped off the round filter and just pulled through the top. No change. It's all about the air coming straight in. That was an episode of Engine Masters.

Welcome to the fun!

[bldr.rob]

@ILPBFoot and @Avalanche325

Thanks for the responses! I'll be sure to put on my list the info about the 750cfm carb w/ vacuum secondaries and the air filter. Interesting how just an air filter could make such a difference.

[bldr.rob]

Rob,

Not sure if you have seen Dave Smith's YouTube videos? There is an early one about engines in the Roadsters. He talks about the Blue Print 427 and how they put an 850 double pumper on it to get high dyno numbers. He goes on to say he has set up two for his friends and has pulled off the 850 and gone with a 750 with vacuum secondaries to improve drivability. This is exactly what I did with mine. The 850 is too much carb for that engine and drivability was an issue. I love the engine with the 750 and it actually made about 5 more rear wheel horse power going down to the smaller carb. The dyno guys tried to use the 850 and went down 8 jet sizes and still couldn't get it lean enough. Also BP puts on the 22 inch oval Cobra 1 inch high filter. That filter will only flow around 500 cfm....very restrictive. I went with a round K&N Xstream filter top and 3 inch filter. It flows well over 850 cfm so little to no restriction. I really like the look of the large oval Cobra filter but not at that huge restriction on air and power reduction. FYI, they dyno'd it with the oval and had 340 rear wheel hp. With the K&N it produced 404 RWHP...a huge improvement. 128593

Other than that the Blue Print motor has been great.

Steve

Steve,

Thanks for the info. Good to know about the carb. I would have assumed, and we know what happens then, that bigger is always better. So much to learn!

That's incredible how the air filter made that much of a difference. I really like the look of the oval filter as well but completely agree, not at the expense of that much horsepower. Will definitely check that out as well!

I have seen some of Dave's video's but not that one. I'll look for it.

Thank you all again for guiding a newbie. It's refreshing to receive actual helpful information and from knowledgeable experiences and not a bunch of smarta$$ remarks.

Rob

[bldr.rob]

I agree with everyone else. Find out the current lead time. You don't need the engine for quite a while. Go for a 600.

A far as the air cleaner goes. If you do a Cobra oval, immediately throw the 1" filter away and get a taller one. https://www.sbfilters.com/ makes a taller one that fits the oval and is cleanable / reusable like a K&N. Check with the 351 based guys on how much space you have.

From testing that I have seen, the absolute best filter for power is the filter top like ILPBFoot shows. In the test, they did a run where they taped off the round filter and just pulled through the top. No change. It's all about the air coming straight in. That was an episode of Engine Masters.

Welcome to the fun!


Thanks! Appreciate the info on the air filter! Can't wait to get started!

Rob

[FLPBFoot]

I agree with everyone else. Find out the current lead time. You don't need the engine for quite a while. Go for a 600.

A far as the air cleaner goes. If you do a Cobra oval, immediately throw the 1" filter away and get a taller one. https://www.sbfilters.com/ makes a taller one that fits the oval and is cleanable / reusable like a K&N. Check with the 351 based guys on how much space you have.

From testing that I have seen, the absolute best filter for power is the filter top like ILPBFoot shows. In the test, they did a run where they taped off the round filter and just pulled through the top. No change. It's all about the air coming straight in. That was an episode of Engine Masters.

Welcome to the fun!

Avalanche325,

My oval Cobra filter with the 1 inch element was hitting the underside of the hood. On my BP 427 they have a Weiand Stealth intake so nothing too high. I was looking to lower the Cobra oval but could only go down to the top of the distributor. It would fit but just barely, so a larger oval filter element would not work unless I pulled out the FFR motor mounts and went with solid mounts that would lower the motor. The best of both worlds was the K&N XStream and a 1 1/4 inch drop base. Now the top plate filter element is right under the hood scoop with a bit over an inch of clearance.

I'll go look for the Engine Masters episode. I like watching their stuff.

Steve

[Avalanche325]

@ILPBFoot and @Avalanche325

Thanks for the responses! I'll be sure to put on my list the info about the 750cfm carb w/ vacuum secondaries and the air filter. Interesting how just an air filter could make such a difference.

General consensus is that most people use mechanical secondaries on these cars. The fact that they are lightweight makes mechanical a good choice. There are also some guys using vacuum, but probably the minority.

[bldr.rob]

General consensus is that most people use mechanical secondaries on these cars. The fact that they are lightweight makes mechanical a good choice. There are also some guys using vacuum, but probably the minority.

Ok, thanks. Appreciate that.

[NiceGuyEddie]

I don't agree with the comments above regarding how soon you will need your engine. You will need it sooner than you think. There are loads and loads of things to know such as fuel lines, wiring, and throttle linkage.

How and where does the fuel come into the engine bay? Does the engine have a mechanical fuel pump? Is the coil mounted to the engine or will you have it on the firewall? Will you be using a control box? Are you running mechanical throttle linkage? Are you running your own brake lines? If so, you are going to want to drop the engine and dry-fit the headers. Where and how does the starter motor wire to the battery? Speaking of battery, will it be in the engine bay? Will it fit if you have a 427?

Depending on other options, you might need to know how to run your heater hoses and power steering lines.

If it's a budgeting issue than by all means, wait and do what you want to do. But would you rather have it and not need it, or need it and not have it?

[swwebb]

A far as the air cleaner goes. If you do a Cobra oval, immediately throw the 1" filter away and get a taller one. https://www.sbfilters.com/ makes a taller one that fits the oval and is cleanable / reusable like a K&N.

I just put a Cobra oval air cleaner on my car - replaced my FAST air cleaner that didn't fit well. I was concerned about the limited height of the air filter, so your comment was extremely timely!! Just went to that web site for the taller air filter you suggested. Couldn't find one. Went to live chat, and the person said they don't have one that would fit?? Can you provide more details? Thanks!

[GTBradley]

I got my Coyote shortly after receiving the kit and it sat around taking up space for two months. I could have waited and saved the hassle of the wasted space, but if you do want it around while building I would suggest the Harbor Freight two ton engine hoist, so you can use it to move the engine easily. I didn't even buy the engine stand and didn't need it. I also sold the engine hoist and leveler on craigslist for about $60 less than I paid for them a year later - not bad if you consider what renting it would cost for just a few days.