Coyote Gen 2 PVC/CMVV

[mlewis]

All,

I know this topic get a lot of travel. I just need a confidence nudge on the PVC/CMVV connections on my Gen 2 (2017) Coyote install.

Per the attached pic, I should connect/tap the PVC and CMVV (marked with blue tape) into my intake tube, correct ?

I bought the connection couplings and grommets, but wanted to gut check before I drilled any holes.

thanks !!

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[edwardb]

You're right. Talked about a lot. First the easy one. The hose on the right in your picture is the PCV and yes that goes to the intake.

For the hose on the left in your picture, if that's the vacuum hose for the CMCV, that does not go to the intake. If plumbed that way, the CMCV system will not work and you will get DTC's. It goes to a vacuum port. This was a recent explanation I provided that hopefully is clear. This is an absolutely confirmed fix to get the system working. In the Coyote vacuum diagram from Ford shown below, I circled the following items. Here are the explanations:

Red circle: This is the vent line for the vacuum motors that was on early 2015 versions of the Gen 2. But was later deleted. Likely yours is a later version and doesn't have it. But you can check to be sure. Note how it goes to the cold air intake. But if your engine doesn't have this hose there's no connection required to the intake for your Coyote.

Green circle: This is the vacuum source for the CMCV/IMRC that you need to get hooked up properly. Note how it’s coming out of the rear of the intake manifold. On a stock motor, it goes to a hose assembly (not included with the crate engine) that hooks it to the engine’s vacuum source and also provides the vacuum boost for the brakes. Not how it's not connected to the cold air intake.

Blue circle: This is the hose assembly described above, not included with the engine, which when used, provides vacuum to the CMCV/IMRC system. Without it, the system doesn’t get vacuum, won’t work, and requires you the installer to connect. You can see that if it were installed the CMCV/IMRC vacuum line would be connected to it. The red arrow points to where it gets connected on the Coyote intake manifold for the vacuum source. Explained further below.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ab234/edwardb123/Coyote_Vacuum_zpsn8nzgshg(1).png (https://app.photobucket.com/u/edwardb123/p/22ad23c2-a511-4548-85b2-6ff30dce4e02)

Next is a picture of the Gen 2 Coyote intake manifold. The red arrow is pointing to the vacuum source you need to connect the green circled hose to. It’s that simple.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ab234/edwardb123/2015_Coyote_Intake.jpg (https://app.photobucket.com/u/edwardb123/p/e46aed62-1f94-4fa5-9315-1ccf2d799c9e)

Unfortunately, none of this is in the Ford Performance control pack instructions. The Factory Five Coyote installation instructions show the intake vacuum port (red arrow in intake manifold picture above) used for the fuel regulator vacuum reference line but make no mention of the vacuum required for the CMCV/IMRC system. You have two choices for the vacuum port: (1) Add a T to the vacuum port so it can power both the CMCV and the regulator reference, or (2) Power only the CMCV and leave the regulator vacuum reference open to atmosphere. I've had my Coyotes tuned by Lund Racing and for normally aspirated setups, they recommend leaving it open to atmosphere.

[Al_C]

Yes. There are several threads from 12 months (or more) ago that detail what you need to do. There are a couple of different Gen 2 approaches - for example, my 2016 Gen 2 is different than Ducky2009's 2017 Gen 2! You'll need to drill two holes in your intake - one goes into the DS cylinder head (PCV) and the other goes into the block/manifold.

If I am viewing the photo correctly, the blue tape on the left of the photo will connect to the fitting on the DS side of the throttle body; the one on the bottom right is the PCV that goes directly in to the intake elbow.

[mlewis]

Thanks, very helpful.

so the T connect would be where FFR show the regulator connection. Here

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Also, on the back on of the connect I came across a post showing these connections in addition to the regulator.

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Are these connections needed as well ?

[edwardb]

Thanks, very helpful.

so the T connect would be where FFR show the regulator connection. Here

127948

Also, on the back on of the connect I came across a post showing these connections in addition to the regulator.

127949

Are these connections needed as well ?

Your first picture: Yes, that's the vacuum port you need to connect to. The CMCV vacuum hose (circled in green in the previous diagram) needs to connect here. If you want the vacuum reference line to the regulator, then it also needs to T into this port. You may not choose to copy it, but this is the hose I came up with. I didn't use the vacuum hose that came with the engine because I couldn't figure out an easy way to mate with the quick connector it had. Removed it and replaced with this. The T is at the back, pictured here on the RH side. Small line attaches to the regulator. Large line attaches to the intake manifold on the connection the OE hose was attached to. The end on LH side of the picture attaches to the vacuum port behind the throttle body. I used an adapter to step up the size to match the vacuum port connection. Like I said, you may not choose to duplicate this hose. But hopefully gives even more clarity to how the connections need to be made.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Coyote%20Engine/.highres/IMG_0752_zpsqnuimnkx.jpg (https://app.photobucket.com/u/edwardb123/p/13d84920-f972-455e-a37e-d804eb266ec3)

Your second picture. Based on your description, this is not your engine, right? That's the earlier version of the Gen 2 as I was describing and that's the CMCV vent hose (circled in red in the previous diagram) that was deleted in later versions. If your engine has those hoses with a T connection and a hose through the intake, it does get attached to the cold air intake. Mine was one of those earlier versions, and is hooked up like these pictures I just took. That added T in that picture with the hose to the vacuum reference port on the regulator is not correct. Ultimately probably doesn't hurt anything. But isn't providing a vacuum reference signal to the regulator if the other end is attached to the intake. I would not recommend copying that. If your engine doesn't have those lines coming off the CMCV actuators, then it's a later version and you don't need to do anything as I mentioned before.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ab234/edwardb123/IMG_1972.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://app.photobucket.com/u/edwardb123/p/987747c8-0365-415e-a14a-746356457e9e)

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ab234/edwardb123/IMG_1973.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://app.photobucket.com/u/edwardb123/p/5b447445-d12c-4fa2-a73d-1679aa24257d)

[mlewis]

Paul,

As always, thanks for the guidance/insight.

Appreciate the picture of your CMCV custom hose set-up. I will consider this in running the CMCV line to T off of the vacuum source for the regulator reference.

Sorry to confuse with the second picture (I lifted this from the forum). My Gen 2 did not come with the blue circled hose. Here is a picture with my set-up (these ports are Capped).

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So I can basically leave these as is with no split off the vacuum line running to my fuel regulator reference ?

Thanks again ..

[edwardb]

Paul,

As always, thanks for the guidance/insight.

Appreciate the picture of your CMCV custom hose set-up. I will consider this in running the CMCV line to T off of the vacuum source for the regulator reference.

Sorry to confuse with the second picture (I lifted this from the forum). My Gen 2 did not come with the blue circled hose. Here is a picture with my set-up (these ports are Capped).

127992

127993

So I can basically leave these as is with no split off the vacuum line running to my fuel regulator reference ?

Thanks again ..

Kind of going in circles here... (1) The blue circled hose as I said in my first post does not come with the crate motor. I explained what it was because it's shown in the Ford diagram. Plus confirms that the CMCV circuit is plumbed to the vacuum port behind the throttle body versus attaching to the cold air intake. (2) Since you have the newer version Gen 2 without the red circled hose, you don't need to do anything as I mentioned before. Leave those caps in place. That is not the place to plumb anything related to the vacuum reference line for the regulator. That picture you found and posted is the early version Gen 2 and also plumbed incorrectly. Suggest you forget seeing it. Just confuses things for your setup. (3) Both your CMCV vacuum and regulator vacuum source need to be from the vacuum port behind the throttle body. That's it. Do it however it's easiest for you. The hose I pictured was my take.

[mlewis]

Yeah, I'm known for over thinking (and over searching) this Coyote I/O stuff :)

Given the various revision/changes on the Gen2 I start to question what my set-up should be what.

Without the red plumbing in my crate and without the needed for a surrogate hook-up, I will assume Ford removed any associated codes.

Thanks again for all the input (and coaching) on this. I am hoping to get to me first start in a couple months (finally …)

[mlewis]

I'm back …

I am making a replacement vacuum how to replace the green circled line.

I the line has an in-line check valve:

128465

I assume I need to include this in my custom vacuum line, correct ?

Thanks !!

[edwardb]

I'm back …

I am making a replacement vacuum how to replace the green circled line.

I the line has an in-line check valve:

128465

I assume I need to include this in my custom vacuum line, correct ?

Thanks !!

Yeah, others have noted that check valve. Full disclosure -- I didn't when I made up my line and never went back and put one in. It's starting it's fourth driving season and running great. But I'm sure our friends at Ford put it there for a reason. My pure guess is to provide some isolation from the power brake circuit when used in the stock configuration with the blue circled hose in the previous diagram. If so, wouldn't apply in this case. But again a pure guess and certainly wouldn't hurt for you to include it. Others have.

[nuhale]

So I'm most likely going to confuse the topic further. I took a different approach. I'm also in the throws of my Gen 2 coyote build (first start 2 weeks ago). This thread has me second guessing now.

Lets just pass over the PCV. This is easy. Off the top of the DS engine direct into intake. I'm using the spectre intake setup so ordered this kit in hitting the "easy" button.

https://www.jlttruecoldair.com/factory-five-coyote-swap-intake-fittings/

I referenced the FFR coyote instructions REV Z 9/18. This appears to be the last rev for the GEN 2 coyote.

https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Coyote-Fitment-roadster-rev-Z.pdf

On page 58 of this guide they show the CMVV vacuum hose plugging into their silicone intake on a pre formed port. I given this I assumed that maybe the new rev of the Gen 2 didn't require this directly into a vaccum port. Used the grommet and quick connect from the JLT kit I bought through a hole drilled directly into the spectre reducer. See pic:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128523&d=1589741271

FFR PICS Showing CMVV install:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128525&d=1589742106

[edwardb]

Sorry to give you the news, but that's not right. The latest version actually appears to be 2B 07/2019 (https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Coyote-Fitment-roadster-rev-2B.pdf) but unfortunately they're both wrong. I just don't understand why this information is provided incorrectly. And Ford Performance doesn't address it at all. Your approach isn't confusing or different. It's the same mistake a bunch of us made five years ago when the Gen 2 first came out. If you leave it that way, (1) the CMCV circuit won't work, and (2) your system will throw DTC's when the CMCV system is commanded but doesn't respond. Maybe it doesn't light the MIL (I don't remember...) or people don't mount the MIL where it's visible and are running with DTC's all the time. Hard to say. But it won't work. I personally experienced it along with many others. The function of the CMCV system is pretty subtle for our purposes, and in fact many remove it completely and tune out the commands and trouble codes. Either because they change intakes or there's no room. Like the Hot Rod. But it's also easy to hook it up properly and be a non-issue.

I'll state a few things again:

- The only difference between the early Gen 2's and later ones is Ford eliminated the vent line to the intake. The hose circled in red in post #2. Rather than venting the CMCV actuators to the intake they were later vented to atmosphere.

- The vacuum hookup for the CMCV actuators is the same for all Gen 2's. The hose circled in green in post #2. It needs to get vacuum from the connection behind the throttle body also shown in post #2. It won't work if attached to the intake as Factory Five shows in their instructions, full stop.

- If you study the Ford vacuum diagram, it confirms the hose circled in green in post #2 is connected to the vacuum port not the intake.

Hope that makes sense.

[nuhale]

Closing the loop. I'm glad I came across this thread (as recycled as it is). The kit I bought from JLT included a small length of hose & some 90 fittings. I was wondering what the heck these were for and hoping that this was the intent. THANKS PAUL! You continue to be one hell of a Sherpa in this journey.

Based on feedback here is my edit this eve (bought a new reducer but $10 redo is not painful):

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128534&d=1589771983

[edwardb]

Closing the loop. I'm glad I came across this thread (as recycled as it is). The kit I bought from JLT included a small length of hose & some 90 fittings. I was wondering what the heck these were for and hoping that this was the intent. THANKS PAUL! You continue to be one hell of a Sherpa in this journey.

Based on feedback here is my edit this eve (bought a new reducer but $10 redo is not painful):

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128534&d=1589771983

Well... getting there, but unfortunately that's not the vacuum connection we've been using. Sorry about that. Post number 2 above has a red arrow pointing to the one you want to use, which I've mentioned a couple times. It's pointed sideways to the LH side. The connection you're attached to now has an evap purge valve on it which isn't supported in the crate motor calibration. Normal practice has been to cap that port and not use it.

[nuhale]

Strike 3... I'm out. :mad: