MSD: manufactured seriously defective

[rich grsc]

So my experience with MSD coils.
I have EFI running a Fast XFI sportsman, with a MSD 6 AL, MSD distributer, and MSD coil. The car started 'hiccuping ' or just acting as if it just shut off for a faction of a second when under light load or steady rpm's. Went through all the wire connections looking to see if any where loose or bad, nothing. Under acceleration or load it was ok, strange? Took it to the tuner, thinking the MSD box maybe was going bad. He has a tester for them, ran every test he could, there was nothing wrong with the box, so he ran a few more tests, the coil, a MSD Blaster 3, was bad. Had about 3100 miles on the setup. He installed a MSD Blaster 2, because he had issues with 3's. Car has been running great for the last 3500 miles. Over the weekend it stared doing the same sh-t again, under acceleration run fine, light loads or steady rpm's would hiccup. So has a test, I installed a 27 year old coil from a Mustang 5.0 I had laying around. Runs great again. So, 2 MSD coils failed in about 6900 miles.:mad:
If anyone has an idea on what is the issue, it would be interesting to hear. I won't be using MSD coils again. Also, why do they install oil filled coils with the CD boxes? The old mustang coil is an iron core, solid no oil.

[Jeff Kleiner]

There will undoubtedly be some who disagree but I think you answered your own question Buddy ;)

Jeff

[skidd]

The only thing that comes to mind.. is how important it is to match the resistance of the coil, with the "control brain". I wonder if the blaster series coil, isn't a good match for the 6AL?
I was under the impression that a CD box was more friendly with coils? Though, I usually see eCore or HEI coils connected to those 6AL boxes. Have you considered trying an eCore coil?
Mis-Matching resistance can burn up either a control module, or a coil in pretty quick order though.
eg.. plug an old-school oil-filed coil into an HEI module without any sort of ballast resistor, and that coil is going to over heat in a hurry. Though.. you're also not supposed to use a ballast resistor setup with an HEI either since it has built in dwell control. ;)
I have an eCore MSD coil on my car, controlled by an HEI module (Duraspark-to-HEI conversion). Been working well, but for only a little over 2 years. Actually.. full disclosure, the higher-capacity of this coil, burned up a few ultra-cheap Chinesium made HEI modules early on.
The ACDelco made one I have in there now has been solid... and I always keep a spare in the tool-bag.

[mike223]

If anyone has an idea on what is the issue, it would be interesting to hear. I won't be using MSD coils again. Also, why do they install oil filled coils with the CD boxes? The old mustang coil is an iron core, solid no oil.



Where's your coil mounted?

Two different replicas - a friend and I had no luck at all with oil filled Blaster 2s mounted to the engine (MSD 6AL operated).

We both went to the epoxy filled high vibration coil MSD 8222 and have had no further problems. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-8222?rrec=true

Disclaimer - I'm barely at 4,000 miles and his car is mainly an autocross trailer queen (Hoosier A7s) the last few years.


I think they fill them with oil to dissipate heat.

[GFX2043mtu]

As Mike said how is the coil mounted? I ask this because coil mounting can drastically effect its life span. If you have it mounted to the engine you’ll need a potted coil type like their high vibration model due to the high frequency vibration. Oil filled coils have windings that are not supported and higher frequency or G loads with cause the windings to rub and fail quickly. I’m not saying MSD won’t have the occasional bad part it just seems odd you got 2 of them. As said before you may want to look at the high vibration one.

[mike223]

P.S. - Our experience with Blaster 2s was that they suddenly went cold + dark and stayed that way = open circuit on the primary.

Due to low expectations - I wired my 6AL with weatherpaks and made up two spare 6ALs for quick change as needed (bought "cheap" off the forums from people who abandoned MSD).

~6-7 years, I've never had to touch the 6AL or 8222 again (knock on wood).

[rich grsc]

Coil moved from engine after the first failure to the passenger side on the aluminum side wall. Still failed.

Both of my MSD coils now hang out at the 200 yd mark on my range.:D

[swwebb]

Rich - I had the same thing happen to me. MSD 6AL and MSD Blaster 3 coil mounted on the engine. Same symptoms. Couldn't figure out why the hiccuping happened. Usually could just cycle ignition and it was fine. One day I was stranded on the highway for about 10 mins, but then it started up fine. Then the engine completely died and wouldn't restart but luckily only 1/4 mile from home. 7500 miles on car. Got it home and tested everything out. Bad coil. Put in a new MSD Blaster 3 coil and everything is fine. Then I read that vibration could be the problem (coil mounted on engine), and I switched to an epoxy-filled MSD coil as mentioned by Mike223.

https://www.ffcars.com/threads/coil-failure.638544/#post-6067846

Been fine ever since. Just over 10k miles right now. Keeping my almost-new MSD Blaster 3 Coil as a spare in my trunk!

[NAZ]

I'm happy with MSD products, only problem I've experienced is an oil filed coil leaking that was mounted on the engine (high vibration). Remember when mixing and matching parts, not all are compatible. A stock ignition system many of you are familiar with sends 12-volts to the coil (OK, ~14-volts when running) but an MSD CD box sends >500-volts to the coil. Refer to this list for coil compatibility with the MSD CD boxes: https://documents.holley.com/techlibrary_coil_compability.pdf

[Jeff Kleiner]

...Keeping my almost-new MSD Blaster 3 Coil as a spare in my trunk!

I have a spare OEM coil in my trunk as well as an identical one under the hood which has been running the car for over 12 years/25K miles now. The spare one has been used twice---both times to get friends' cars home after their MSDs licked their nuts out on the road. Coincidence??? ;)

Jeff

[swwebb]

I'm happy with MSD products, only problem I've experienced is an oil filed coil leaking that was mounted on the engine (high vibration). Remember when mixing and matching parts, not all are compatible. A stock ignition system many of you are familiar with sends 12-volts to the coil (OK, ~14-volts when running) but an MSD CD box sends >500-volts to the coil. Refer to this list for coil compatibility with the MSD CD boxes: https://documents.holley.com/techlibrary_coil_compability.pdf

Interesting list! Note that MSD Blaster 3 is preferred as is the epoxy-filled MSD coil!

[mike223]

A stock ignition system many of you are familiar with sends 12-volts to the coil (OK, ~14-volts when running) but an MSD CD box sends >500-volts to the coil.



It's a little worse than your average electric fence - it doesn't take long to figure out you shouldn't have put your hand anywhere around it, lol... :cool:


And the spark plug end is about 47,000 volts - haven't made that mistake, but it definitely could be dangerous.

[Railroad]

I have a spare OEM coil in my trunk as well as an identical one under the hood which has been running the car for over 12 years/25K miles now. The spare one has been used twice---both times to get friends' cars home after their MSDs licked their nuts out on the road. Coincidence??? ;)

Jeff

I thought you were going to say, you had both coils mounted under the hood with disconnect terminals. That would not be helpful to your friends.

[Derald Rice]

OK...........I will the "That Guy".

My original MSD Blaster 2 is still mounted on the drivers side cylinder head. Right where I put it 18 years ago.

And I do have a spare, because if you have a spare of anything, you will never need it.

Derald.

[FLPBFoot]

Interesting list! Note that MSD Blaster 3 is preferred as is the epoxy-filled MSD coil!

Careful. Blaster 3 is part number MSD -8223 and is oil filled. Specifies being mounted upright. MSD-8222 is a Blaster High Vibration and is epoxy potted. Can be mounted at any angle.

Steve

[Avalanche325]

OK...........I will the "That Guy".

My original MSD Blaster 2 is still mounted on the drivers side cylinder head. Right where I put it 18 years ago.

And I do have a spare, because if you have a spare of anything, you will never need it.

Derald.

Unfortunately, how well a product was made 18 years ago has very little to do with the quality today. I was going to use MSD on my car based on their legacy reputation. Then I saw the ridiculous failure rates posted on our forums. The worst thing is that those legacy good reputations can hang on for a long time while the customers take the hit.

Hang onto that old stuff......it's the good stuff.

[KDubU]

When I talked with Mike Forte who built my engine about installing a MSD, he said, “why bother, just another thing to go wrong”. Of course mine was an old school carb’ed engine. ;)

[JIMOCO]

MSD = May Suddenly Die. I experienced the 3,000 mile failure of an MSD coil. That resulted in my one and only trip on a rollback. My engine builder sent a new coil. Still MSD but this one has worked fine for 9,000 miles. Like others, I keep a spare in the trunk in anticipation of another failure.

[Tony_G]

When putting my system together I call MSD. They recommended the 8252. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-8252 At the time I felt like I was being up sold. I guess time will tell if the extra cash was worth it. I'm only at about 3500 miles now.

[steno]

I used a Blaster coil on my donor build because the OEM coil looked like crap. There’s 73k miles on the roadster now with 72k with the OEM coil that looked bad. Just saying...