Sneak Peek of Project 818 Concept Model 1 of 4

[Dave Smith]

We are almost finished building four concept models and will be showing them shortly. The words concept model are a bit misleading are all CAD based and three of the four are ready to go to full size plug milling as I type this. I know I've been away from the 818 page for a while (we are quite busy with SEMA prep and some broadcast projects), but I thought it would be fun to give you guys a bigger glimpse of Xabier's 1/4 scale model since many guys here took a shine to it. No matter what, we will have all four 1/4 scale models ready for viewing before or at the 2011 SEMA Show.

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/sneak1.jpg
This photo caused people to accuse me of being a tease. Here's a better one. still not done, and still only one of four car shapes for the 818 project.

http://www.factoryfive.com/images/ffforum/818model1teaser2.jpg

[riptide motorsport]

That is just too cool...you've hit a home run with this new project, period!

[armstrom]

Amazing work... Really amazing... While I'm sure there are difference between this and the initial render it REALLY seems to have captured the initial design drawings.

I'll take one with a targa top :D

-Matt

[crobin4]

Mommy why is there a wet spot here?

[Mad Dog]

I know that Xabier's design (shown here) was the only one of the four cars we are working on that was NOT already in CAD and so there were translational challenges between Xabier's drawings and real world proportions, spacing, and dimensions. Nevertheless, this model is, as far as I know, as close as possible to the actual rendering. More to come soon as Dave Smith allows and as the other models are completed because we want to show them all at once.

[drewmob]

This looks REALLY nice. From the design the headlights look to be the 06-07 WRX "hawk eye" headlights. Is this something that will be included standard in the kit or would customers need to source them?

Sorry if this is a noob question or was covered elsewhere. I am shopping for a donor WRX and want to get the correct year model.

[Mad Dog]

You are sharp to pick-up on that and the truth is that the headlight resolution on this particular car is still up in the air and after speaking with Jim in engineering, IF this design is picked to go to production, we would provide the headlight assembly and it would be similar, but not exact to this model.

Note: The WRX headlights look cool, but when actually used in this shape, they would not work.

[Rockraven]

That's the face of a serpent If I ever saw one. It needs a snakey name. Mamba... Boomslang... Asp... Serpens... Sidewinder... Basilisk...

818 Sidewinder. Missile for the street! :p

[mattster03]

Looks great!

[GUNS]

That looks great! I can't wait for the release of all four, especially the track model. The only "criticism" that I have so far is that the front air damn looks too big. If you could lower the height of the hood a bit and shrink the front opening I think it would be perfect and more efficient/aerodynamic. I'm so excited for this. I have my donor car half apart for maintenance and I'm borderline considering just continuing to dismantle it.

[PhyrraM]

I think it looks great so far.

I can see a few tiny things to nit-pick, but I'd much rather congratulate FFR and the RISD team on a fantastic job of keeping it as close Xabier's design as "real and in the flesh" would allow.

Also, thanks to Xabier for designing with the final product in mind. I'm sure that many of the comprimises that RISD might have had to make, Xabier already dealt with beforehand.

Great job, looks fantastic.

[Rockraven]

I think the photo angle makes the front end look a little big. The top pic is closer to standing perspective, and the intake looks less pronounced. I'm really warming up to this design.

[kach22i]

That red finish sure has POW factor.

[NicksPapaw]

Mmmmmmmmmmmm..............Another Red car for my garage. I can't wait to see the rest. :)

[Draco-REX]

Looks good! BIG mouth though... But that can be dealt with. I'm very curious how the intercooler intake and roll hoop(s) will be worked into the body. Can't wait to see the other 3.

[Flamshackle]

YUS!!! this looks amazing even at this size and dev stage :D

cant wait for the real deal and more to come!

[Niburu]

that is one sexy catfish

[16g-95gsx]

I agree that it looks fantastic, definately makes me happy to see it coming along. I also agree that the front end is too open, which will only hurt the performance of the car. Being a mid-engine platform I also think the front end looks too bulky, and should be minimized a bit more, which would likely also cut down on the front end openings. Looks great though guys, considering your goal is a design that excites buyers consider it completed.

[Silvertop]

that is one sexy catfish

Gotta love it!

[Sailor]

Basilisk gets my vote. I really like the angular divisions in the front grill. Adds a little "je ne sais quoi" to the look.

[Draco-REX]

I'd like the upper lip to be a touch lower, like in Flamshackle's avatar. My worry is that will all that intake area in the front the air won't be able to exit fast enough through the vents on the side or the cowl and be forced under the car creating lift.

[kach22i]

Being a mid-engine platform I also think the front end looks too bulky, and should be minimized a bit more, which would likely also cut down on the front end openings.
I agree, maybe they need to angle the radiator some more to lower the hood height a bit.

[Silvertop]

I agree, maybe they need to angle the radiator some more to lower the hood height a bit.

Maybe, though we will need room to store our Targa-Tops under there on sunny days........... and maybe a couple of other smallish things. :)

[kach22i]

Maybe, though we will need room to store our Targa-Tops under there on sunny days........... and maybe a couple of other smallish things. :)
A fair point. I guessing radiator will be venting through the wheel wells and not through the hood area (Lotus Elise and Ford GT-40 style). The Lancia Stratos had a full sized spare there, relying on air pressure, not air flow to vent the area via louvers in the hood.

A short guy like myself will have the seat pulled all the way up, lots of room behind the seat for top storage in that situation. My buddies 1981 Ferrari GTSi stores the one piece top behind the seats.

[Silvertop]

A fair point. I guessing radiator will be venting through the wheel wells and not through the hood area (Lotus Elise and Ford GT-40 style). The Lancia Stratos had a full sized spare there, relying on air pressure, not air flow to vent the area via louvers in the hood.

A short guy like myself will have the seat pulled all the way up, lots of room behind the seat for top storage in that situation. My buddies 1981 Ferrari GTSi stores the one piece top behind the seats.

I'd probably be able to do that too -- though it would be best if there was a place designed for it to go. And under the hood would appear to me to be the odds-on favorite, though it could also be a fine place for a spare tire.....

No real argument from me aesthetically about whether the hood might look better if it angled a touch lower. But either way, it will be beautiful.

None of my buddies own Ferraris.............

[ScottKoschwitz]

I agree, maybe they need to angle the radiator some more to lower the hood height a bit.

I agree. I had hoped the mouth would have been toned down a bit in clay, for aesthetic and aerodynamic reasons (my form-must-follow-function reflex is kicking in again).

[PhyrraM]

I'm thinking that the mouth may not be all that big, if the car itself is very low. The gas tank is no longer under the seat, so it could possibly be fairly low.

[Oppenheimer]

that is one sexy catfish

Sexy Catfish = 818 name?

[Silvertop]

Sexy Catfish = 818 name?

818 Channel Cat?

[Dave Smith]

Good calls. The angle does definitely make the front look bigger than it is, still the moment Im excited about is seeing the many forms side-by-side. More shortly.

[Oppenheimer]

Yeah, don't get hung up on not liking one small aspect of the design. Recall the GTM had significant changes between initial 'final' design and what got built as MK1 (then more changes as MK2).

Those changes were based in no small part on community feedback. The idea with the Xabier was build a 3D model that is as faithful as possible to the 2d design drawing. THEN once everyone gets to see it for real, tweak it based on feedback.

So lets not be shy about giving that feedback, lets just do it constructively. Oh, and don't go too crazy until we see the full design from multiple angles, etc.

[RM1SepEx]

Can't wait for the open house to view all 4
That model looks sweet!
I've always liked Xabier's design and would put cash down asap to get working on one!

[xabier]

I wanted to leave my opinion here, I am really impressed with the model of my design, it looks really similar, more taking into account the limitations of working from 2D renderings into a 3D model. I also have to agree with those saying that the front "mouth" is very big for a mid engine car but that was, in any case just my fault when designing it, at RISD they have done a very nice work and the big mouth is because I designed it that way, maybe by just making the air intake lower the problem could be solved, but I don´t know how much could be lowered. However, Im sure they will do a pretty nice work, with any of the 4 models and of course, the final product will be fantastic!
Good luck and already waiting to see all the finished models together, it will be really exciting!

Xabier

[Flamshackle]

Nice thanks xabier :D

I love this design and cant wait to have it as my own!

[crobin4]

Nice thanks xabier :D

I love this design and cant wait to have it as my own!

+1 Xabier

I just hope I don't end up torturing the design and lines too much, when turning it into an E-Mod Racer.
It would be nice to be able to have a purpose built AutoX car that doesn't look like some kind of monster.

[Draco-REX]

+1 Xabier

I just hope I don't end up torturing the design and lines too much, when turning it into an E-Mod Racer.
It would be nice to be able to have a purpose built AutoX car that doesn't look like some kind of monster.
Will it count as a "Production Body" even though it was never a true production car? I know the FFR roadsters do because they replicate Cobras. I ask because when I mentioned the 818 as an AutoX car, I was told it would be B-Mod since it was never a production car.

[crobin4]

Will it count as a "Production Body" even though it was never a true production car? I know the FFR roadsters do because they replicate Cobras. I ask because when I mentioned the 818 as an AutoX car, I was told it would be B-Mod since it was never a production car.

Yep, kit cars and dune buggys along with other monsters go to E-Mod. Although, they have a 50 lb.weight penalty for modified tub.
All other Factory Five Cars have been approved by the SEB. They live in X and B Prepared. The 818 doesn't meet minimum requirements for those classes, but EM is a "perfect" fit.
There is no reason to believe that the SEB would not approve the 818 for E-Mod. We will have to contact the SEB to be classed when the first cars are ready. If Factory Five doesn't do it on there own. I imagine that they will already have classing set up at NASA (North American Sports car Association), when they have the first kits ready. It's my feeling that they have a Very close relationship with NASA.

18.1 MODIFIED PRODUCTION-BASED CARS
A. Eligibility
Classes DM and EM contain production-based cars which are permitted
additional modifications beyond those allowed in Prepared
classes CP through GP. Models must meet the requirements of Section
13 (first paragraph), be specifically listed in Appendix A, meet the
specifications below, or be otherwise recognized by the SEB.
1. Kit Cars
Kit cars, which were originally designed, constructed, and licensable
for street use, may participate in DM and EM if they are approved
by the SEB. Members desiring approval of a particular kit
car should provide the SEB with detailed information regarding
the kit model and contact info, if available, for the OE manufacturer.
For obsolete kit cars, the member will be expected to provide
construction specifications, dimensions, and photographs for
the SEB to examine and keep on file. The Club will evaluate each
submitted kit model individually, and the evaluation will ensure
that the specific model:
a) Follows current DM and EM allowances regarding minimum
floor pan dimensions (see 18.1.B.1.j).
b) Has no unusually advantageous aerodynamic features.
18. MODIFIED CATEGORY — 137
c) Has no exceptionally low center of gravity.
d) Has no exceptionally high strength to weight ratio.
e) Has no other unique features that would upset the competitive
balance in DM and EM.
f) Has independently-verifiable evidence of at least 10 examples
which meet the approved specification produced. Extremely
limited production sports racer-type efforts are discouraged.
Constructed examples of approved kits are subject to the following:
a) They will automatically take the Modified Tub weight penalty
(see Appendix A).
b) They will have the same weight/displacement scales and
weight bias penalties as production-based cars.
c) They will be allowed all the modifications that production-based
cars are permitted,
d) They are subject to the same engine/transmission restrictions
as production-based cars.
e) They must meet the same safety requirements as productionbased
cars.
A newly-added model is not eligible for the current year’s Solo
National Championships unless its listing was published no later
than the July issue of the official SCCA publication.
The list of currently approved models is as follows:
(No models are currently listed.)

[Draco-REX]

Yep, kit cars and dune buggys along with other monsters go to E-Mod. Although, they have a 50 lb.weight penalty for modified tub.
All other Factory Five Cars have been approved by the SEB. They live in X and B Prepared. The 818 doesn't meet minimum requirements for those classes, but EM is a "perfect" fit.
There is no reason to believe that the SEB would not approve the 818 for E-Mod. We will have to contact the SEB to be classed when the first cars are ready. If Factory Five doesn't do it on there own. I imagine that they will already have classing set up at NASA (North American Sports car Association), when they have the first kits ready. It's my feeling that they have a Very close relationship with NASA.

18.1 MODIFIED PRODUCTION-BASED CARS
A. Eligibility
Classes DM and EM contain production-based cars which are permitted
additional modifications beyond those allowed in Prepared
classes CP through GP. Models must meet the requirements of Section
13 (first paragraph), be specifically listed in Appendix A, meet the
specifications below, or be otherwise recognized by the SEB.
1. Kit Cars
Kit cars, which were originally designed, constructed, and licensable
for street use, may participate in DM and EM if they are approved
by the SEB. Members desiring approval of a particular kit
car should provide the SEB with detailed information regarding
the kit model and contact info, if available, for the OE manufacturer.
For obsolete kit cars, the member will be expected to provide
construction specifications, dimensions, and photographs for
the SEB to examine and keep on file. The Club will evaluate each
submitted kit model individually, and the evaluation will ensure
that the specific model:
a) Follows current DM and EM allowances regarding minimum
floor pan dimensions (see 18.1.B.1.j).
b) Has no unusually advantageous aerodynamic features.
18. MODIFIED CATEGORY — 137
c) Has no exceptionally low center of gravity.
d) Has no exceptionally high strength to weight ratio.
e) Has no other unique features that would upset the competitive
balance in DM and EM.
f) Has independently-verifiable evidence of at least 10 examples
which meet the approved specification produced. Extremely
limited production sports racer-type efforts are discouraged.
Constructed examples of approved kits are subject to the following:
a) They will automatically take the Modified Tub weight penalty
(see Appendix A).
b) They will have the same weight/displacement scales and
weight bias penalties as production-based cars.
c) They will be allowed all the modifications that production-based
cars are permitted,
d) They are subject to the same engine/transmission restrictions
as production-based cars.
e) They must meet the same safety requirements as productionbased
cars.
A newly-added model is not eligible for the current year’s Solo
National Championships unless its listing was published no later
than the July issue of the official SCCA publication.
The list of currently approved models is as follows:
(No models are currently listed.)
You made my day. :) I might ACTUALLY have a competitive AutoX car when I'm done. Whoodathunkit?

[thebeerbaron]

You made my day. :) I might ACTUALLY have a competitive AutoX car when I'm done. Whoodathunkit?

Have you checked out the competition (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?2794-The-competition-(when-dodging-cones))?

The 818 will be a fun competitor, but it's not going to be an automatic class-killer :)

[crobin4]

Have you checked out the competition (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?2794-The-competition-(when-dodging-cones))?

The 818 will be a fun competitor, but it's not going to be an automatic class-killer :)

Yes ^^^, If you plan on going to Nationals or doing a Tour it's going to be VERY tough.
E- Mod is very extreme, but if I thought there was 0 chance I wouldn't bother. Properly built though, I think the 818 can do it in the right hands. I seem to have two lefts though.

[crobin4]

Sorry to Dave and others. I seem to have caused a thread jack.:o

[Draco-REX]

Have you checked out the competition (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?2794-The-competition-(when-dodging-cones))?

The 818 will be a fun competitor, but it's not going to be an automatic class-killer :)
I'm not looking for a class killer, but a contender. If you looked through the donor car pictures, you'll see that I'm deep in SCCA RallyCross. I don't have the time to dedicate to AutoX as well. The STI is more of a Street-Spec, so when I come out to an AutoX, I'm really running against myself. It'll be cool to be on even footing with the others in my class.

[Draco-REX]

Sorry to Dave and others. I seem to have caused a thread jack.:o
Just some idle chit-chat until more pics are posted. ;)

[crobin4]

I'm not looking for a class killer, but a contender. If you looked through the donor car pictures, you'll see that I'm deep in SCCA RallyCross. I don't have the time to dedicate to AutoX as well. The STI is more of a Street-Spec, so when I come out to an AutoX, I'm really running against myself. It'll be cool to be on even footing with the others in my class.

Oh, no need to worry about having a contender. I think with a decent set of R-comps and springs, raw times regionally should be good. PAX Index (handicap multipier between classes)will suck, but it WILL be fun and fast.
I'll look at OVRSCCA and see what kind of stuff they have running there. I've heard there a tough bunch.

[crobin4]

Oh, no need to worry about having a contender. I think with a decent set of R-comps and springs, raw times regionally should be good. PAX Index (handicap multipier between classes)will suck, but it WILL be fun and fast.
I'll look at OVRSCCA and see what kind of stuff they have running there. I've heard there a tough bunch.

This shouldn't be the final word, but you should be able to do well in OVR with the 818. And you may be able to keep it dual-purposed (Street Legal).
The points leader this year in EM is running a Factory Five MK? roadster. Calls it Deerslayer. I think his name is Clint? Curious why he is in EM, though. Maybe an engine thing?
For reference, the particular results I looked at, he was about 4 ish seconds behind the shifter karts (F125 almost always fastest unless a real A-Mod car shows up).
I would say he's on this forum somewhere. Perhaps, he could elaborate on the competition there.