How to choose an engine - I need guidance

[NA5KAR]

Hello all. I'm still in the early stages of my Mk4 build and I'm starting to think engines. I should be ready to buy one soon, but my limited knowledge of what makes one better than the other has me questioning my choice. The goal with my car is to drive it every weekend, go to local car shows and cruise by the beach a lot. I'm not into racing, on the track or the street. I want an engine that sounds good and performs perfectly. I started looking at the Blueprint 302 carbureted, with power steering, and the T5 transmission. I spoke to Johnny at Blueprint on Friday and he seemed less than enthusiastic about my choice. We talked about the 306 and the 347. I understand that the 302 is the 'economy' package and it comes with cast iron heads, a flat tappet camshaft and 235 hp. Versus the 306 and 347 with aluminum heads, a roller camshaft, more horsepower, and the TKO 600 transmission. The price for the 306 is $5000 more than the 302 and the 347 adds another $1000. Yes, I am budget conscious, but I want the right engine for my car. I don't have enough knowledge or experience to understand why one is better than the other or if the 302 is just right for my car. I'm ready for your knowledge and opinions. Thanks in advance.

[JimLev]

There really isn't a "right" engine for this car. It mostly depends on how your going to use it. For just cruising around you don't need big HP, it's a very light car. My only recommendation is to get something that is fuel injected, less issues to deal with. A 302 would be fine.
Good luck.

[GoDadGo]

There really isn't a "right" engine for this car. It mostly depends on how your going to use it. For just cruising around you don't need big HP, it's a very light car. My only recommendation is to get something that is fuel injected, less issues to deal with. A 302 would be fine.
Good luck.

Because these cars are so light, think about HP to weight ratio.
A 235 HP 302 will likely yield a 1-hp to 10-pound power to weight ratio.
The car will be spirited to drive, quite controlable and likely a lot faster than you think.
As an example, my old C-4 (1995 Corvette) had a 1 to 11 power to weight ratio and that car ran high 12's to low 13's in the quarter mile.
I loved that car and it surprised a lot of folks because it was 100% stock with only a muffler delete and SLP cold air intake with not CPU remapping.

https://youtu.be/svZX2BMSDEs

I'd just suggest going with Blue Print's 331 which has Roller Cam and will give you that extra punch to keep you from getting bored down the road.

https://blueprintengines.com/collections/ford-crate-engines/displacement_331-c-i

[egchewy79]

I, like you, plan on just cruising and not racing. this is a very light car and too much HP can be detrimental if you don't know how to use it. I happened to inherit a 1966 Ford 289 HiPo that had been rebuilt (bored 0.030 over, cast heads, flat tappet cam, est final displacement 292 or around 4.8L). I did decide to go with EFI (FiTech) to increase reliability. I know this isn't going to set the track on fire, but will be plenty of HP for me (est 250hp). I haven't installed my drivetrain yet, so my experience is limited, but nonetheless should be fine for my application.

[David Williamson]

I am surprised they offer an engine without a roller cam? These are light cars so they don't need massive power. I would 2nd the injected 302/306 with aluminum heads and a roller cam, 300 plus HP and very easy to live with. There are several injection systems that look like a carb such a Fitech. But only a grand more for a 347 ?? that's what I would get.
David W

[Jeff Kleiner]

A properly built iron headed 5.0 (302/306) with an E-cam and 570-600 mechanical secondary carb coupled with a T5 transmission and 3.55 rear gear will be economical to purchase, dead reliable, sound good and be tons of fun. Trust me!

Jeff

[Papa]

You're pretty much going to hear what everyone else chose for their cars in the replies. Here are the factors I used to help me choose based on my desire for a street driven car (no track time) that I can enjoy at higher Colorado elevations:

1. Completely built and ready to install when it arrives
2. Mild street manners, but enough power to get a bit wild when I want to
3. Fuel injection is a must for the altitudes the car will be used at
4. Old-school look (traditional push rod design)

Based on my criteria, I chose the BluePrint Engines 347 with EFI and Tremec TKO-600 transmission. It meets all of my criteria. The dyno sheet from BluePrint came in at 438 hp and 415 ft/lbs of torque. They do a beautiful assembly with all billet accessory drive and brackets, polished alternator and intake, top end components throughout, and a fantastic warranty.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84575&d=1524422081


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doBle7rb7hI

[GoDadGo]

Deep Gears Will Wake Your Car Up Too!

Consider 3.73's and a 3-Link if you don't have your rear axle yet.
A 4-Link is also a budget option too; however, the 3-Link handles better with less wheel hop.
The 3-Link is also a lot less expensive than the I.R.S. set up and it plants the crap out of the tires.
It was the preferred set for up until Factory Five came up with their current I.R.S. assembly.

Hope This Helps!

https://youtu.be/y7ar8d1WHAM

[NA5KAR]

A properly built iron headed 5.0 (302/306) with an E-cam and 570-600 mechanical secondary carb coupled with a T5 transmission and 3.55 rear gear will be economical to purchase, dead reliable, sound good and be tons of fun. Trust me!

Jeff

Thanks Jeff. This is comforting news. I've been looking around, and (as you already know), the Blueprint 302 comes ready to install without having to add pulleys, water pump, spark plugs, alternator, etc. Plug and play. I like that. I feel better about my original plan. Thanks.

[NA5KAR]

Deep Gears Will Wake Your Car Up Too!

Consider 3.73's and a 3-Link if you don't have your rear axle yet.
A 4-Link is also a budget option too; however, the 3-Link handles better with less wheel hop.
The 3-Link is also a lot less expensive than the I.R.S. set up and it plants the crap out of the tires.
It was the preferred set for up until Factory Five came up with their current I.R.S. assembly.

Hope This Helps!

https://youtu.be/y7ar8d1WHAM

Thanks a million for your advice. I already have the 4 link installed. I looked at the 331 in the link you sent. I like that one a lot. I'll call Johnny and talk to him about it.

[NA5KAR]

You're pretty much going to hear what everyone else chose for their cars in the replies. Here are the factors I used to help me choose based on my desire for a street driven car (no track time) that I can enjoy at higher Colorado elevations:

1. Completely built and ready to install when it arrives
2. Mild street manners, but enough power to get a bit wild when I want to
3. Fuel injection is a must for the altitudes the car will be used at
4. Old-school look (traditional push rod design)

Based on my criteria, I chose the BluePrint Engines 347 with EFI and Tremec TKO-600 transmission. It meets all of my criteria. The dyno sheet from BluePrint came in at 438 hp and 415 ft/lbs of torque. They do a beautiful assembly with all billet accessory drive and brackets, polished alternator and intake, top end components throughout, and a fantastic warranty.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84575&d=1524422081


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doBle7rb7hI

Thanks Dave. I've read your whole thread and I'm a huge fan of your build. You've helped me a lot so far. I'm in South Florida, so the altitude is not an issue for me. I like the idea of carbureted for the simplicity of it. I love the plug and play aspect of the Blueprint product. Now, I just need to decide on the HP and the $'s. Thanks for your help.

[Papa]

Hey NASKAR,

Is the truck in your avatar a 6.0? I have a 2007 F250 with the 6.0 that I bought brand new in late 2006. Best truck I've ever owned. I have had to do some co$tly repairs over the years (turbo, injectors, bed-plate oil leak), but that comes with the diesel territory.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84509&d=1524419222

Good luck on your engine selection.

Dave

[NAZ]

If you go with a flat tappet cam be sure to follow the break-in procedure the engine builder provides -- no shortcuts.

[sethmark]

Biggest thing is injection. I'm a carb guy. I have a bunch of cars and trucks with them and I'm good at it. But they suck. Its work to get it right and when its right, its still poorly mannered. For example... any time its cool or cold, the carb HAS to warm up to improve atomization, or it runs poorly.

Toys are way more fun when they dont need babysitting. A trickle charger on a toy is all the maintenance I want to mess with.

I'm a chevy engine guy, running an LS in my 33. But I did a mustang 5.0 in my Mk II, retaining the injection on it as well. The 5.0 might have made 300 hp on its best day with the upgrades I did. More than enough power. That car can kill you with less.

As for WHICH engine, that's a different question. For the money, buying old technology, pushrod engines doesn't make much sense to me anymore for so many things, but this car is one where it does. A nicely dressed, 300-400 hp Ford will be fun forever in my opinion. DONT cheap out on the transmission. The t5 aint enough.

[rich grsc]

And there you go, everyone wanting to up sell you on engine and transmission. :mad: As Jeff pointed, a near stock 302 and a T-5 is more than enough for a first time cruiser. I've had 3 cars, and helped many friends with their builds, most had stock or near stock 5.0's, all had T-5's, none have failed. There should not be a $5000 difference between a 302 and a 306? My 331 cost just over that, less fuel and intake. I would also advise against 3:73, pick a 3:55 set, that way if a few years down the road IF you want to up grade the engine, you won't have to re-gear the rear end.

[SDhemmings]

Just to mess with things, I had a 1995 351w roller block rebuilt to 408 and it has 483hp/503tq. That is a lot yes but you don't need to go to 408, just doing a nice rebuild of a 351w will give you comfortable power and tq numbers. Mine is also carbed witch was a personal choice but i will most likely go to a fuel injection system in a few years once I start doing longer trips. But regardless of what we all tell you, its your car and you can do what you wish.

[Railroad]

If you run a flat tappet, be sure to use an oil with zinc and phosphate or whatever it is. Syn is slick, but does not do the job for the flat tappet lifters. I have a 351 flat tappet and run 15w 40 diesel oil. It has the zinc and pp.

[Alex_V]

Why no mention of Coyote Engine option? You may notice that the 20th Anniversary Factory Five car that is being raffled has a second Gen coyote and MT82 combination.

[GoDadGo]

If you need to adjust the pinion angle, a nice set of adjustable uppers & lowers will do the trick.

https://www.spohn.net/shop/Factory-Five-Racing-MK3-MK4-Roadster/

Good Luck & Happy Wrenching!

[narly1]

A properly built iron headed 5.0 (302/306) with an E-cam and 570-600 mechanical secondary carb coupled with a T5 transmission and 3.55 rear gear will be economical to purchase, dead reliable, sound good and be tons of fun. Trust me!

Jeff

Would the above set-up, but with an AOD trans instead of the T5 offer the same performance experience more or less?

[NA5KAR]

Hey NASKAR,

Is the truck in your avatar a 6.0? I have a 2007 F250 with the 6.0 that I bought brand new in late 2006. Best truck I've ever owned. I have had to do some co$tly repairs over the years (turbo, injectors, bed-plate oil leak), but that comes with the diesel territory.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84509&d=1524419222

Good luck on your engine selection.

Dave

My truck is a 2001 F-250 with the 7.3 diesel. I got it with 206,000 miles in 2011. I converted it to run on vegetable oil as soon as I got it. It just turned 380,000 a couple months ago. Best vehicle I've ever owned. I take very good care of it. I saw your truck in the early part of your build thread and was impressed right away. Thanks Dave.

[NA5KAR]

If you run a flat tappet, be sure to use an oil with zinc and phosphate or whatever it is. Syn is slick, but does not do the job for the flat tappet lifters. I have a 351 flat tappet and run 15w 40 diesel oil. It has the zinc and pp.

Thanks Railroad. I got that info from Johnny at Blueprint on Friday. If I go with that engine, I'm prepared to follow the recommendations to the letter. Thanks.

[NA5KAR]

And there you go, everyone wanting to up sell you on engine and transmission. :mad: As Jeff pointed, a near stock 302 and a T-5 is more than enough for a first time cruiser. I've had 3 cars, and helped many friends with their builds, most had stock or near stock 5.0's, all had T-5's, none have failed. There should not be a $5000 difference between a 302 and a 306? My 331 cost just over that, less fuel and intake. I would also advise against 3:73, pick a 3:55 set, that way if a few years down the road IF you want to up grade the engine, you won't have to re-gear the rear end.

Thank you Rich. I did ask for opinions, and I appreciate each one. I put Jeff's comments pretty high up there, and now yours too. As a first timer, I'm looking for the least complicated engine project. When I do build #2, I'll upgrade throughout. Thanks again.

[swwebb]

And there you go, everyone wanting to up sell you on engine and transmission. :mad: As Jeff pointed, a near stock 302 and a T-5 is more than enough for a first time cruiser. I've had 3 cars, and helped many friends with their builds, most had stock or near stock 5.0's, all had T-5's, none have failed. There should not be a $5000 difference between a 302 and a 306? My 331 cost just over that, less fuel and intake. I would also advise against 3:73, pick a 3:55 set, that way if a few years down the road IF you want to up grade the engine, you won't have to re-gear the rear end.

Rich - is there that much difference between 3:55 gears and 3:73 gears? I have a 347 with a T5, and I need to change out my current 3.27 gears on my IRS. I had a brain fart when I chose 3.27 gears - 5th gear is practically useless on normal roads except the interstate.

[CraigS]

Along w/ Jeff but a slightly different direction. That 302 and T-5 will be a blast w/ a 355 diff. And it will be easily saleable if you want to upgrade later. Just because you don't have much experience w/ these cars and engines, why not get on the road relatively inexpensively w/ the above, get to understand the car, make friends and ride in FFRs w/ different combinations, and 2 yrs from now, think about an upgrade.

[skidd]

Lol.. this thread is gonna get big!! We love talkin' Engine!!


A properly built iron headed 5.0 (302/306) with an E-cam and 570-600 mechanical secondary carb coupled with a T5 transmission and 3.55 rear gear will be economical to purchase, dead reliable, sound good and be tons of fun. Trust me!

Jeff

+1
Pretty much what I have, and can attest that it's a total blast to drive.. sounds fantastic.. dead simple.. and looks the part. Don't be afraid of a simple small block 302 with a toilet-bowl on top.
The only difference for me is I have a vac secondary carb.. which is a slightly safer choice for anybody not too familiar with fine-tuning a double-pumper. Vac Secondary carbs tend to be a little more forgiving IMO.
She's warmed up by the time I get to the bottom of my street, and good to go after that. The only trick .. is knowing the "tricks" to starting a carburetor car.

[CraigS]

Rich - is there that much difference between 3:55 gears and 3:73 gears? I have a 347 with a T5, and I need to change out my current 3.27 gears on my IRS. I had a brain fart when I chose 3.27 gears - 5th gear is practically useless on normal roads except the interstate.
I will throw in my thoughts. It is almost never worthwhile to make a one step diff change. It will be different but not that much different. The T5 puts you into a bit of a quandary. That short 1st made 3300# mustangs clutches last longer and the 5th got better epa ratings. But in an FFR, right now your 5th seems too tall, a 373 would fix that for sure but then 1st will be really short. So, it's a balancing act. I don't know which IRS you have so not sure of cost to make a change. Study it and decide.

[Al_C]

NA5KAR, You've gotten a lot of great advice here. There isn't much I can add, only the advice I got when I was starting out. That was "at least do fuel injection".

My personal question at the time was do I want old technology or new technology? I decided that new technology was important, so I went the coyote route. I'm still glad I did. My opinion is that if you want new technology, choose the coyote route. If you want old technology, you can't beat the 302.

[NA5KAR]

NA5KAR, You've gotten a lot of great advice here. There isn't much I can add, only the advice I got when I was starting out. That was "at least do fuel injection".

My personal question at the time was do I want old technology or new technology? I decided that new technology was important, so I went the coyote route. I'm still glad I did. My opinion is that if you want new technology, choose the coyote route. If you want old technology, you can't beat the 302.

Thanks Al. You are right that I've gotten a lot of great advice here. I really appreciate everyone's input. I'm going to admit a few things here. I can turn a wrench, but building a car is as confusing as it is exciting. Example, I bought the rear axle from Tony at FF with my kit. I'm not sure what the gear ratio is. The only thing on the invoice is 'DISC BRAKES AFRE US REAR AXLE'. Also, when i bought the kit, Tony told me about a bolt on fuel injection mod that looks like a carburetor. I asked Johnny at Blueprint about that and he said that he sells them. I forgot if he told me that I can put that on the 302. Based on what I've read here today, I think I'm going to choose the 302 carbureted with the T5 transmission. After the car has some miles, I'll evaluate if I want to put the fuel injection system on it (if possible). I appreciate everyone's opinion and help.

[Derald Rice]

[/U]29] Based on what I've read here today, I think I'm going to choose the 302 carbureted with the T5 transmission. After the car has some miles, I'll evaluate if I want to put the fuel injection system on it (if possible). I appreciate everyone's opinion and help.

The choice between fuel inj and carb is one that can be done as a retrofit, but has differences that are done easier with the initial build rather than later.

Some of the differences are fuel pump, fuel lines, electrical harnesses, O2 sensors, and some more that others can report on.

Derald.

[Avalanche325]

I wouldn't run a flat tappet cam these days. There is simply no reason to besides nostalgia. Then you always have to make sure you use high zinc oil, etc. Rollers, you don't have to worry about and better profiles.

If you truly want to cruise and do shows and are not concerned about more power, there is nothing wrong with a 302 or 306. Strokers up the power and torque. If you aren't into that, there is no reason for extra expense, worse fuel mileage, and a more stressed engine.
A T5 is fine for that. The are rock solid unless you put more power through them than they are designed for. I also agree to not gear lower than 3.55.

Keeping it real - you guys going EFI for "reliability" and "less issues" should do a search on how many "ride of shame" threads there are that are EFI related.

[skidd]

^ Agree with Derald. With my build, the fuel pump I have for my Carb is already an electric in-tank low pressure pump. Dead-Headed to my carb. That upgrade is easy enough for FI.
However.. while I did plumb a return fuel line, just in case I did chose to go FI in the future.. I plumbed the F5 provided fuel lines. a 5/16" and 1/4". I fear these are too small for most aftermarket FI systems (FiTech, Sniper..)
So.. if you are thinking about a possible future change to FI.. plumb big enough fuel lines now (at least -6 or 3/8 for both)... plumb them both.. and go with an electric in-tank pump now.

[NA5KAR]

The choice between fuel inj and carb is one that can be done as a retrofit, but has differences that are done easier with the initial build rather than later.

Some of the differences are fuel pump, fuel lines, electrical harnesses, O2 sensors, and some more that others can report on.

Derald.

Thank you Derald. I know that I'll need to put the right fuel lines in (this weeks project) for fuel inj. I would appreciate any input about pre-planning for a future retrofit and what I should do now. Thanks in advance.

[rich grsc]

Rich - is there that much difference between 3:55 gears and 3:73 gears? I have a 347 with a T5, and I need to change out my current 3.27 gears on my IRS. I had a brain fart when I chose 3.27 gears - 5th gear is practically useless on normal roads except the interstate.

I base my opinion on my own experiences. I can drive my car at 1500 rpm's in 5th with no trouble, it will accelerate smoothly without bucking or surging. I would think you should easily be able to drive your 347 at any speed about 50-55 mph. I would never use a 3:73 unless I had an engine making 200 hp or less. The gear ratio in a fox body Mustangs was a 3:08, from the factory.

[NAZ]

Rich - is there that much difference between 3:55 gears and 3:73 gears? I have a 347 with a T5, and I need to change out my current 3.27 gears on my IRS. I had a brain fart when I chose 3.27 gears - 5th gear is practically useless on normal roads except the interstate.

Why do you need OD on county highways? The T-5 is not a close-ratio road race style trans, there is a big jump between 4th (1.0:1) & 5th (.63:1) which is great for cruising on the interstate. Assuming 26" tires you're 75 MPH RPM should be ~2125 give or take which will lower the noise and increase the MPG. If you went to a 3.55:1 you'll increase that 75 MPH RPM by about 185 and still likely not be able to run OD on a county hwy if you can't now with 3.27:1.

[BluePrintEngines]

Thanks all for the great feedback, and positive light on BluePrint Engines. Lots of great points, and very good observations.

Firsty...I don't dislike our little 302/T5. It serves it's purpose perfectly, which is to be an entry level, simple, and cost effective package. It's great for many builds that want to keep cost down, and want to keep things simple.

For the sake of cost savings, it does have a flat tapped cam. We mainly do rollers, but again, simplicity and cost driven.

This is the only engine we pair with a T5 for warranty sake. Remember the Stock torque rating on a T5 doesn't take much to surpass. Now we all know these are light cars, but we don't want to get anyone into a warranty position with Tremec.

I get the cost jump to a 306 or 347 from the base package is more than a little, but roller cam, aluminum heads, tko600, billet flywheel, performance clutch, ignition, front drives, etc..... the alum headed engines really are a different animal.


There is a time and place for all the packages.

Much like car shopping... it's a list of needs vs wants and what your budget allows.

I'm a drag racer. Do it every weekend the schedule allows. I fully get saving pennies, to fund the love of cars and hot rodding.

Our complete line-up of FFR packages are at factoryfiveengines.com

235 to 541 horsepower. There's an engine for every build.

I'm more than happy to help anyone run through options and help balance that list of needs vs wants

[LOBO 302]

NASKAR, I went from a carb to Fitech On my ‘67 mustang. It’s a stock 302 set up similar to what your looking at. I would highly highly highly recommend that one Mod alone. Like you, I was budget minded when I rebuilt the mustang and went down this exact road. A year later, and what felt like hours and hours of troubleshooting I said screw it ripped off the carb and installed Fitech. Hardest part was the new tank and plumbing and I use that description tongue in cheek. Simple to do and such an improvement in reliability and fun factor. I haven’t built a roadster yet but just like a few guys have mentioned this is much easier to do now than later. It’s worth it! Good Luck

[stack]

Don't get that 302 with the flat tappet cam. Shop around. Get a budget 302 dressed up how you like with a modern roller block instead. Then you can upgrade it as you go.

stack

[narly1]

A properly built iron headed 5.0 (302/306) with an E-cam and 570-600 mechanical secondary carb coupled with a T5 transmission and 3.55 rear gear will be economical to purchase, dead reliable, sound good and be tons of fun. Trust me!

Jeff

Sorry if I'm hijacking the thread a bit. I'm re-asking my question as I think it got lost in the shuffle yesterday.

I'm looking at a drivetrain similar to above but with an AOD instead of a T5.

Is 3.55 rear gearing appropriate? Looking at ~300-325 Hp on the build.

Earl

[Real time recon]

302 parts are cheap and plentiful ,best bang for the buck,go mild or go strong & 200 pounds less than a 427.....Love mine :)

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Reality Bites. Think based on your original comments you are making a good choice. Engine should be rock solid, reliable & easy on maintenance requirements. With a 2200/2400lbs car it will be surprisingly quick. That said I would step up to at lease a TKO-500 or similar because at some time down the road you might want to add some power. Your current transmission choice has no overhead so it's a dead end & you would need a complete engine - transmission replacement.

What a lot of the high horsepower guys usually don't talk about is how hard it is to get that power onto the pavement. Remember the original cars had 260CI V8's rated at 260BHP.

Road & Track said this:

In our September 1962 road test (in which we called it "AC-Ford Cobra," owing to its AC-sourced chassis), Shelby's $5995 2-seater blasted to 60 mph in only 4.2 seconds and hit the quarter mile in 13.8 sec. at 112 mph. Its acceleration, we reported, was "equal to the best efforts of drag-strip-tuned Corvettes, and it does so without the benefit of stump-yanker gearing."

Choose Wisely. :D

[Jeff Kleiner]

I will throw in my thoughts. It is almost never worthwhile to make a one step diff change. It will be different but not that much different. The T5 puts you into a bit of a quandary. That short 1st made 3300# mustangs clutches last longer and the 5th got better epa ratings. But in an FFR, right now your 5th seems too tall, a 373 would fix that for sure but then 1st will be really short. So, it's a balancing act. I don't know which IRS you have so not sure of cost to make a change. Study it and decide.

Craig makes a good point HOWEVER there is a way to make that balance easier; the World Class T5 used in the Mustangs does use a very short 3.35 first gear which helped wake up the lazy 2.73 or 3.08 ratio used their rears. Going with a T5-Z gets a 2.95 first gear along with the same 2nd through fifth gear ratios. I've built cars using this gearbox, 3.55 rear and mild Ford Racing 340 HP 306 engine and in my opinion it makes for a really great combination---a useable first gear with plenty of snap, no big jumps between gears and a relaxed fifth gear for highway cruising.

Jeff

[rich grsc]

Sorry if I'm hijacking the thread a bit. I'm re-asking my question as I think it got lost in the shuffle yesterday.

I'm looking at a drivetrain similar to above but with an AOD instead of a T5.

Is 3.55 rear gearing appropriate? Looking at ~300-325 Hp on the build.

Earl

I have no experience building with an automatic, but my gut instinct is no. I would think a 3:27 or even a 3:08 would work best, I'm sure someone here will have worked with an automatic and know, or contact the supplier of the transmission.

[skidd]

^ Lets just call this the "everything Kleiner says, I agree wtih" show! :)
I happen to have a T5z in my build... with 3.55 rear. He's 100% correct about the 1st gear being very useable. And the step to 2nd being quite normal.

[GoDadGo]

^ Lets just call this the "Everything Kleiner says, I agree wtih" show! :)

Sir Jeffski's The Man!

[NiceGuyEddie]

I am surprised they offer an engine without a roller cam? These are light cars so they don't need massive power. I would 2nd the injected 302/306 with aluminum heads and a roller cam, 300 plus HP and very easy to live with. There are several injection systems that look like a carb such a Fitech. But only a grand more for a 347 ?? that's what I would get.
David W

To be clear, I think he means +$5,000 for the 306 /w Aluminum Heads. An EXTRA $1,000 to go from that to 347, so $6,000 more.

Positively agreed that once you go +$5,000 another $1,000 is worth the step-up to 347.

[NA5KAR]

So, I sent a long email to Johnny at Blueprint and I got back an amazing response. I told him about the great advice I received here and I asked him several questions. His response was literally the best email I have ever received. He told me the pros and cons of each engine choice and he made it clear that he supports whatever choice I make. We also discussed replacing the carburetor with the Holley Sniper EFI. So I made my decision. I'm going to get the 302 economy package with the T5 transmission. I'm also getting the Sniper EFI kit from Blueprint. I'll be ordering the engine in the next day or so. I'm grateful for all of your help. It really did make my decision easier. Stay safe!

[NA5KAR]

To be clear, I think he means +$5,000 for the 306 /w Aluminum Heads. An EXTRA $1,000 to go from that to 347, so $6,000 more.

Positively agreed that once you go +$5,000 another $1,000 is worth the step-up to 347.

You are exactly right.

[NiceGuyEddie]

Also...

If a a cruiser is what's desired, the 28oz lightweight flywheel that will almost positively be bolted to that 347 deserves discussion. It's neat how my 347 revs quickly, but once you put in that clutch, the RPMs drop IMMEDIATELY. It's more work because feathering the throttle is required to keep the RPMs up and not jolt the car during normal driving.

For a cruiser, I'd go with the 302 and put $400 into a Steeda Triax Short Throw Shifter for that T5.

So NA5... what flywheel comes with your engine?

[skidd]

Also...

If a a cruiser is what's desired, the 28oz lightweight flywheel that will almost positively be bolted to that 347 deserves discussion. It's neat how my 347 revs quickly, but once you put in that clutch, the RPMs drop IMMEDIATELY. It's more work because feathering the throttle is required to keep the RPMs up and not jolt the car during normal driving.

For a cruiser, I'd go with the 302 and put $400 into a Steeda Triax Short Throw Shifter for that T5.

So NA5... what flywheel comes with your engine?

28oz flywheel? I think you mean the 28oz imbalance. There is also the 50oz imbalance.. and a perfectly balanced (not as common in the 302). You need to match the imbalance to the internals of the motor.
That said... I'd love to know if those 347s that Blueprint sells do come with lighter flywheels?

[mike223]

Also...

If a a cruiser is what's desired, the 28oz lightweight flywheel that will almost positively be bolted to that 347 deserves discussion. It's neat how my 347 revs quickly, but once you put in that clutch, the RPMs drop IMMEDIATELY. It's more work because feathering the throttle is required to keep the RPMs up and not jolt the car during normal driving.

<snip>

So NA5... what flywheel comes with your engine?


28oz flywheel? I think you mean the 28oz imbalance. There is also the 50oz imbalance.. and a perfectly balanced (not as common in the 302). You need to match the imbalance to the internals of the motor.
That said... I'd love to know if those 347s that Blueprint sells do come with lighter flywheels?


28oz is definitely a flywheel "external balance" - as is 50oz - and "internally balanced" is the term for a crank that doesn't require external balance weights on the flywheel + harmonic balancer.


All that said, the two things that are most likely to make the engine drop revs quickly are a Holley double pumper and not running vacuum advance on the distributor (mine is exactly the same way - I happen to like it that way).

A lighter flywheel would help reduce engine speed faster too - but usually you pay extra for that (not something they send out on budget engines).


Most of the EFI setups have an idle air bypass which will generally reduce that effect - there is no such adjustment for a Holley DP that I am aware of.

Vacuum advance softens the effect too - drop the throttle, vacuum goes up, advance swings in, engine doesn't drop back to idle as quickly.

[GoDadGo]

Check out this little thread of a car that was built by Mr. Mike Everson.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27437-Mark-4-Roadster-for-sale&highlight=SLIDELL

It had a 331 SBF and I got a chance to ride in the car and it was plenty quick, down right peppy. In addition, unlike my car it was well mannered, easy to drive and easy to control. Though both cars had the same side-pipes you could actually drive his without ear plugs.

No it couldn't spin the wheels in the first 4 gears, but if you intend to do some spirited driving and cruising just for fun, then a nice SBF will get you where you want to go and still be able to pretty much out pace most of today's offerings.

Think about this; how fast would a Miata be with a nice 302, 331 or 347 in it?

The Factory Five MK-4 Roadster Is Just Way, Way Cooler & Far More Capable!

[mike223]

Think about this; how fast would a Miata be with a nice 302, 331 or 347 in it?

The Factory Five MK-4 Roaster Is Just Way, Way Cooler & Far More Capable!

I looked about the monster Miata stuff before I went with FFR.

Bottom line to me was it made much more sense to use Mustang + Tbird components and take a least a thousand pounds off what those components were designed for...


Rather than add HP + torque + weight to a Miata chassis (and see what breaks next).

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Think about this; how fast would a Miata be with a nice 302, 331 or 347 in it?



https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=126489&d=1586914920

Banshee 302 V8 Miata/Ford

[NiceGuyEddie]

28oz flywheel? I think you mean the 28oz imbalance.

Yes mate, I wasn't inferring my flywheel weighs 1lb., 8oz. The part I don't understand is if it's a harmonic damper or harmonic dampener.

[Avalanche325]

Yes mate, I wasn't inferring my flywheel weighs 1lb., 8oz. The part I don't understand is if it's a harmonic damper or harmonic dampener.

I think dampener.
Damper, is wetter.

You could have a damper dampener if you drive in the rain.

[mike223]

I think dampener.
Damper, is wetter.

You could have a damper dampener if you drive in the rain.

I'm going to say it's both a balancer and a dampener, on an externally balanced crankshaft.

But I'd definitely agree with "dampener" on an internally balanced crank.


Interesting reading (for some of us): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_damper

[Papa]

Yes mate, I wasn't inferring my flywheel weighs 1lb., 8oz. The part I don't understand is if it's a harmonic damper or harmonic dampener.

I'm still trying to figure out where the other four ounces went. :p

[JohnnyB]

I put a stock 5.0 from an 89 Mustang in my car when I built it with the thought adding a supercharger later. Twenty years later it’s still running great and I have no intention adding the supercharger. I drive the car to work when the weather allows and use it as my weekend running around car, I also do a few cruise-ins and cars shows every year. It’s an individual preference but for this individual my 225 HP fuel injected 302 still brings a smile to my face.

[rich grsc]

I'm still trying to figure out where the other four ounces went. :p
California math!

[Jeff Kleiner]

California math!

One time Miller said to me that a gallon of paint is 132 ounces...I just chalked it up to Miller being Miller and loopy on clearcoat hardener and failed to make the California math connection :p

Jeff

[canuck coupe]

Hey NA5KAR,
If you haven't already decided, and you haven't already seen it, watch Dave Smith and the boys at FFR discuss engine choices for 38 minutes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpjwKZEgzj8
Based on that video and the description of your driving needs, your original thought about the base Blueprint engine with a T5 is perfectly reasonable.
Avoid engine envy!

[davekp]

Remember your differential ratio will affect how it feels.
A 302 with the right ratio can be pretty snappy.

[NA5KAR]

Hey NA5KAR,
If you haven't already decided, and you haven't already seen it, watch Dave Smith and the boys at FFR discuss engine choices for 38 minutes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpjwKZEgzj8
Based on that video and the description of your driving needs, your original thought about the base Blueprint engine with a T5 is perfectly reasonable.
Avoid engine envy!

Thanks. I did see that video when it came out. I'm really happy with my choice. 302 with Sniper and T5. It should be here in a week or two.

[Gnzo84]

Thanks. I did see that video when it came out. I'm really happy with my choice. 302 with Sniper and T5. It should be here in a week or two.

Thanks for the discussion here. Thinking through the same decision now and the $6k savings with the basic package sounds like a good way to get in and see what you think.

[KenWilkinson]

The original (correct me please!) was 348 HP. And it worked. Not sure what the 427 FE put out. Someone?

[Papa]

The original (correct me please!) was 348 HP. And it worked. Not sure what the 427 FE put out. Someone?

According to the picture on my wall:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129047&d=1590528237

427 4-v: 410 hp @ 5600 rpm
427 8-v: 425 hp @ 6000 rpm

Torque: 480 fp @ 3700 rpm

[GoDadGo]

This little video you might find interesting regarding the 427 Cobra.

https://youtu.be/XWIgxbMdyBc

Hope this helps.

[BrewCityCobra]

To add to this conversation, I wanted to ask a bit of an addendum to the OP's question.

How does engine selection change (if at all) if you plan on tracking/Auto-crossing? For the build I am planning currently I was partial to a 427W build from Forte, figuring the beefier Dart Block might give me a bit more durability to withstand a few track days every year.

Am I missing out by not going Coyote? Has anybody had issues with the Coyote if they are pusihng it hard?

[Avalanche325]

How does engine selection change (if at all) if you plan on tracking/Auto-crossing? ?

The big thing that you want for the track and autocross is light weight. Big blocks are great for car shows and going in a straight line. Small blocks and Coyotes are good for going around turns. Strokers are the best of both worlds in my opinion. BB power and SB weight.

Are you missing out by not going to a Coyote? It depends on what you are looking for in a Cobra. I would leave that up to do you want the car to be more old school or do you want a modern take on it.

[KDubU]

I agree that if you want to track, then why not the 347 with dart block or Coyote. Old school vs new school look.

[BrewCityCobra]

The big thing that you want for the track and autocross is light weight. Big blocks are great for car shows and going in a straight line. Small blocks and Coyotes are good for going around turns. Strokers are the best of both worlds in my opinion. BB power and SB weight.

Are you missing out by not going to a Coyote? It depends on what you are looking for in a Cobra. I would leave that up to do you want the car to be more old school or do you want a modern take on it.

Thanks for the reply. To clarify, what I meant by "missing out" was performance wise. I am by no means a pro at dialing in a carb so I wasn't sure how much I'd be able to get out of the engine. That said, I have to think that a Forte 427 would not only give me everything I could possibly hope for power wise but also effectively be bullet-proof as well.

[BrewCityCobra]

I agree that if you want to track, then why not the 347 with dart block or Coyote. Old school vs new school look.

Agreed - sounds like you can't really go wrong either way. Just down to personal preference. Looks like I have some contemplation (e.g., beer drinking) to come to a conclusion.

[AdamIsAdam]

So, I sent a long email to Johnny at Blueprint and I got back an amazing response. I told him about the great advice I received here and I asked him several questions. His response was literally the best email I have ever received. He told me the pros and cons of each engine choice and he made it clear that he supports whatever choice I make. We also discussed replacing the carburetor with the Holley Sniper EFI. So I made my decision. I'm going to get the 302 economy package with the T5 transmission. I'm also getting the Sniper EFI kit from Blueprint. I'll be ordering the engine in the next day or so. I'm grateful for all of your help. It really did make my decision easier. Stay safe!

I would love to read that email. Would you mind sharing?