View Full Version : New stupid questions
Well, now that I have it running, some items have come up that I mentioned in a post in my "Best Laid Plans" thread.
First thing is the stainless steel J pipes seem to have "blued" really fast.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49721180623_597e2cd3ee_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iKG3JT)P3310122 (https://flic.kr/p/2iKG3JT) by Rick Paul (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156322842@N02/), on Flickr
I'm not sure whether this is normal, or a sign of something that I need to address, like an over lean mixture.
Another is the fact that the tach is not operating. Was certain it was connected correctly when the MSD box was installed, but now obviously not. Any ideas of what I should be checking?
I also ran across the fact that I have never connected the voltage gauge. I wasn't sure where the wire from the gauge should be connected.
Then when I had it running, and turned the wheels lock to lock a bunch of times, when I shut the engine down the cap popped right off the reservoir, (stock plastic cap on Mustang PS unit). Was this just a release of air built up in the system that got released from turning the wheels?
I know on some items I'm being overly cautious, but never having done this before, every time I turn the key I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop! Thanks for any ideas, thoughts, etc. that you can provide.
Jim1855
04-01-2020, 12:00 PM
Normal. Timing, A/F Ratio and other tuning aspects can change it.
The easy thing is a good tune and then quit worrying. The harder path is to continuously polish, there are a few chemical processes that make removing the "gold" easier. I've tried all, my preference is to not worry and drive it.
Another option is one of the better ceramic coatings, but these will discolor as well, just takes a bit longer. Might reduce under hood temps as well. I always coat headers.
Jim
Norm B
04-01-2020, 12:14 PM
Retarded timing or the wrong AFR can cause your pipes to blue quickly. Not familiar with the Fast FI system but their should be a way to monitor your AFR.
As covered in another thread, your power steering system needs to be bled. Your fluid could have been aerated and need to be replaced but you can try properly clearing the air first. I would remove as much of the existing fluid as possible and fill with new clean fluid and then use the following procedure to remove the trapped air.
Jack the front wheels off the ground. Make sure the fluid level is 1/2 full. Without starting the engine turn the steering wheel slowly to fuel lock. Leave it there while you check the fluid level. Fill as necessary. Turn the steering wheel slowly to the full opposite lock. Leave it there while you check the fluid level. Fill as necessary.
Repeat this procedure 12 times. It might take more repetitions if it is still requiring fluid top up after 12.
Jim, my intent is to get the J pipes ceramic coated when I coat the side pipes. Just wasn't sure if that amount of blueing that fast was an issue. A pro tune once it's on the road is also in the plan. Thanks.
Norm, the initial foaming of the fluid has cleared, and the effort on the PS has improved since I did a multiple turn lock to lock. Just surprised me that there was that much built up pressure in the system to blow the cap off. I'll continue to purge the system of any trapped air.
Any ideas why the tach is not registering, or where the Volt gauge gets connected. They're electrical, so I'm even more confused than on other things!
Jim, my intent is to get the J pipes ceramic coated when I coat the side pipes. Just wasn't sure if that amount of blueing that fast was an issue. A pro tune once it's on the road is also in the plan. Thanks.
Norm, the initial foaming of the fluid has cleared, and the effort on the PS has improved since I did a multiple turn lock to lock. Just surprised me that there was that much built up pressure in the system to blow the cap off. I'll continue to purge the system of any trapped air.
Any ideas why the tach is not registering, or where the Volt gauge gets connected. They're electrical, so I'm even more confused than on other things!
Rick,
The tach should just need to run to the coil if you're using one. If you are using a CD ignition box, follow those instructions. You may need to convert the tach signal to what the gauge is expecting. On the voltage gauge, any switched power wire will work. I tapped it into the brown gauge feed wire.
Dave
Thanks Dave. Through some wire route tracing, I determined that at some point I had failed to connect the wire coming from the tach to anything! I had tied the power lead from the tach to the purple "Coil/tach lead in the RF harness. I believe it was supposed to be connected to the gray wire from the MSD box, but I got caught up in wiring the FAST system, and the gray wire was connected to the FAST white wire for RPM input. At this point I guess I need to trace down the splice between the gray and white wires, and add the purple wire from the RF harness. God I hope that's right. Thanks also for an answer regarding the Volt gauge wire. I had no idea where to connect it. Oh well, back to the drawing board.
Well I got the tach hooked up. It was a pain in the *** with all the wiring closed up to try to get another wire into the loom, but got it done. Thanks to Dave's suggestion on using the gauge feed wire for the volt meter. Found it behind the dash, and got it connected. Started it up to see if everything worked, and it did. I connected the FAST hand held and set it to live data to monitor the cars gauges against it. It said the A/F ratio was around 13.5 so I don't think it's running overly lean. Once started pulled it into the driveway. after about 4-5 min. of idling, my wife noticed some smoke, and said I was leaking something, so I pulled it back in the garage, and shut it off. When I got out to check, It turns out that there is a minor leak of coolant from the back of the intake manifold gasket. Spoke to Gordon, and I'm going to test the torque on the intake manifold bolts tomorrow to see if they loosened, or the gasket shrank over the three years it sat in my garage. If that doesn't fix it, I may have to pull the intake manifold, and replace the gasket. CRAP! Pray for me!
CraigS
04-02-2020, 06:25 AM
If you need to replace the intake gaskets use these
https://drivcat.com/overlays/part-detail.aspx?brandId=FL&pNum=1250%20S-3&partType=Intake%20Manifold%20Gasket%20Set
the 'S-3' is the critical part here as it denotes what they are constructed of. There are a couple of others depending on port size but this is the most common. Also torque the bolts/nuts, warm it up and let it cool, torque again. Do that cycle at least 3 times before you drive it. It has taken me as many as 6 re-torques before they stop moving. Also I much prefer to switch over from bolts to studs and nuts like these
https://arp-bolts.com/kits/arpkit-detail.php?RecordID=2000
Because the friction is so much lower vs a steel bolt into an aluminum head, you get more clamping force at the same torque.
While I'm still praying that I don't have to go there, thanks for the info. I hope they torque down and it corrects the seepage that I saw yesterday.
Well, per Gordon's recommendation, I re-torqued the intake manifold bolts to 15 ftlbs. They were way looser than I expected, so I went around about three times to double check. Had an issue with the coolant overflow tubes, so I got that corrected, added some coolant, and fixed my throttle linkage to avoid it jamming in a pulley. I found that I had vibrated a bolt loose from the J pipe to side pipe joint. Scared the crap out of me when I spotted a bolt on the garage floor next to the PS front wheel. Checked around and found the nut, and got it put back in place and tightened down.
Started it up, and pulled out into the driveway. The idle continues to smooth out, but there is a pop I can't figure from where. Now that I got the gauges working, I was monitoring them as well as the dashboard on the FAST hand held. The water temp started to climb. When it passed 190 I expected the fan to kick on, but it didn't, so the temp continued to climb further. Pulled it back in the garage at about 220 degrees, and shut it down. I'm going to have to figure why the fan is not coming on. Anyhow, that's when I realized that the drip of coolant from the back of the intake manifold was still there, and dripping onto the garage floor. I got a light to look at where it was leaking, and I'm now thinking it may be a threaded plug on the back of the manifold. There appeared to be a line of coolant coming from it, and then running down to the bottom of the intake manifold where it sits on the block. I'll have to let it cool down and check that plug to see if it could be the culprit.
I hope that I can get these bugs worked out, so that I can go kart it a bit, and then start working on the few things I need to address on the body, so I can get it remounted, and start mounting the lights, etc.
Norm B
04-02-2020, 11:11 PM
I just rewatched your videos of your starts. My turn for a stupid question. You don’t have the cardboard covering the rad still do you?
Hey Norm, that's not a stupid question. No, I took it off after the first start. I knew it would only be running for a minute or so. Since then I've been running it without. Got to figure why the fan is not coming on.
Gordon Levy
04-03-2020, 09:58 AM
Make sure you don't have any air pockets in the block when adding water. Remove a temp sending unit while filling and once water reaches the top of the hole, reinstall and top off. Sensors have a hard time reading steam if the system isn't burped.
Well, per Gordon's recommendation, I re-torqued the intake manifold bolts to 15 ftlbs. They were way looser than I expected, so I went around about three times to double check. Had an issue with the coolant overflow tubes, so I got that corrected, added some coolant, and fixed my throttle linkage to avoid it jamming in a pulley. I found that I had vibrated a bolt loose from the J pipe to side pipe joint. Scared the crap out of me when I spotted a bolt on the garage floor next to the PS front wheel. Checked around and found the nut, and got it put back in place and tightened down.
Started it up, and pulled out into the driveway. The idle continues to smooth out, but there is a pop I can't figure from where. Now that I got the gauges working, I was monitoring them as well as the dashboard on the FAST hand held. The water temp started to climb. When it passed 190 I expected the fan to kick on, but it didn't, so the temp continued to climb further. Pulled it back in the garage at about 220 degrees, and shut it down. I'm going to have to figure why the fan is not coming on. Anyhow, that's when I realized that the drip of coolant from the back of the intake manifold was still there, and dripping onto the garage floor. I got a light to look at where it was leaking, and I'm now thinking it may be a threaded plug on the back of the manifold. There appeared to be a line of coolant coming from it, and then running down to the bottom of the intake manifold where it sits on the block. I'll have to let it cool down and check that plug to see if it could be the culprit.
I hope that I can get these bugs worked out, so that I can go kart it a bit, and then start working on the few things I need to address on the body, so I can get it remounted, and start mounting the lights, etc.
Rick,
Does your handheld show the fan is "On" at any point? If so, the computer is triggering based on the temp and you just need to check the fan control wiring. If the computer never shows the fan coming on, it could be a bad sensor or thermostat. Where is your CTS installed? In the manifold or at the radiator? Are both the upper and lower radiator hoses hot when you're getting that 220 degree reading? Be sure to remove the covering you have on the radiator, or the fan can't do it's job. Have you confirmed that fan isn't turning on? Lots of little things to check -- should keep you entertained for a few hours. :p
Dave
Blue Viking
04-03-2020, 10:39 AM
If your manifold is similar to mine, the threaded plugs on the back goes into the plenum, no water should come out there. I have three holes on the back.
Thanks Bill, I'll check that out.
Gordon, I was wondering if I had properly burped the block, and if that could be causing the problem. Thanks for that filling trick!
Dave, Thanks. I didn't see an indicator that would show the fan on. I'll have to go back through the paperwork, and try to find where it is on the live data screen. I believe the CTS in in the manifold, but don''t quote me. I'll have to check. Both hoses were hot. No covering on the radiator except for that very first start a few days ago. The list keeps getting longer. Oh well, can't go anywhere anyway, so...
Oystein, I'm not sure if they're exactly the same. Your's is a Speedmaster brand, and mine is a PCE (no branding on the surface of the manifold). I'm not positive about that threaded plug, but when I touched my finger to it, (and boy was it hot!), I made sure to not touch down at the seam of the intake and the block, and my finger came away wet, so at this point I'm not sure. I'll check with Speedmaster today. Thanks.
Well, I guess all that is on hold. It looks like I have no other choice than to replace the intake gasket. I guess since I can't go anywhere or do anything away from the house it will give me a project to focus on. I just hope I don't screw this up. Allot of the items that I'm going to have to do are simple to a bunch of people, but to me it's rocket science. With this "social distancing" I can't even draw from the people that I know that are well versed at all this to give me a hand. I've done a couple of these back in the dark ages. One on my 57 Chevy, and another on my Dad's 68 Buick. Both got done, but probably not with the best of techniques! So now I wait for parts, and then the fun begins. I probably shouldn't knock myself this bad. I rebuilt my T5, and got through that with the only mistake I had to correct was to reassemble the 2nd gear synchro as I hadn't put it together correctly. Just posting to try to calm my nerves!
Big Spark
05-09-2020, 07:30 PM
Greetings. New to the FFR world and forum. Saw the thread title and figured i could ad what might be a dumb question/issue. I purchased a gen 1 type 65 Daytona coupe #405. It was completed in 2010 but hardly driven. Just over 1000 miles. The issue. While driving all the guages will suddenly drop to zero and then back to normal in a second or two. I've pulled the dash out looking for loose connections and didn't find any. Could this be a short? A ground problem? Sorry if this is hijacking a thread. Any help or sending me in the right direction would be greatly appreciated....Doug