Ron Francis Harness Issue [Archive]

BCrouse

03-29-2020, 10:05 AM

I just thought I would post this in case anyone else might have the same problem I did. I am just finishing up my wiring by installing weather pack plugs for the lights on each corner. I have had them all working in the past but after I finished installing the weather pack connectors, the low beam on the passenger side wasn't working. I traced it back to the connection point where the right side wires join the left side. A short section of insulation was stripped from the left side wires and the right side wire was just wrapped around it and soldered to itself, then shrink tube placed over that. All of the connections were done the same way. I will try to attach a picture of what the ground wire looked like.
I also had the same issue with the ground on the electric fan. Makes me wonder what kind of problems I'm going to have with the rest of the harness when I start driving it :(
125193

CDXXVII

03-29-2020, 11:21 AM

That splice is completely unacceptable and you are correct to worry that the rest are probably questionable. I would send that photo to Factory Five and Ron Francis.

I did not like the routing on the earlier version of the Ron Francis harness and ended up replacing every splice "I hope" in my harness. The original splices in my harness were sloppy but probably adequate.

FritoBandito

03-30-2020, 09:24 AM

rich grsc

03-30-2020, 12:42 PM

RF harness, pay more get less?? That is a really poor example of a professional job. They should be embarrassed to sell something like that.

MSumners

03-30-2020, 12:56 PM

Thanks for posting. Going to unwrap and check some of these connections.

RBachman

03-30-2020, 02:20 PM

Just some sarcastically expressed similar aggravation.

For the price tag, there could be some room for improvement. But I don't know why some are so down on the RF harness. My RF harness has given me, FREE OF CHARGE, hours and hours of automotive education. I've learned things like how to track down shorts, locate improperly routed wires, and a game I like to call, "Guess what fuse panel slot the wire is supposed to go in." Bad connections, wires improperly routed, fuse panel improperly wired, relay sockets jury-rigged, etc. are all opportunities to learn something new. I've learned what hot melting insulation smells like and so much more. (BTW, wire burns stop hurting in a few days if properly treated, but I digress.) And I think I can remove and reinstall a wiring harness in about 3 minutes now. My harness also helped win an argument with my wife, who can no longer claim I don't need a thermal camera. I even earned a certificate for my recent mastery of a multimeter.

Actually, there was ZERO way my harness could have passed a bench test. So either they never bothered, they sent it out knowing it was bad, or they didn't care enough to test it at all. I should ask them to reimburse the time I wasted hunting down their manufacturing defects at my engineering hourly billing rate (I ain't cheap). :D

BCrouse

03-31-2020, 07:31 AM

For the price tag, there could be some room for improvement. But I don't know why some are so down on the RF harness. My RF harness has given me, FREE OF CHARGE, hours and hours of automotive education. I've learned things like how to track down shorts, locate improperly routed wires, and a game I like to call, "Guess what fuse panel slot the wire is supposed to go in." Bad connections, wires improperly routed, fuse panel improperly wired, relay sockets jury-rigged, etc. are all opportunities to learn something new. I've learned what hot melting insulation smells like and so much more. (BTW, wire burns stop hurting in a few days if properly treated, but I digress.) And I think I can remove and reinstall a wiring harness in about 3 minutes now. My harness also helped win an argument with my wife, who can no longer claim I don't need a thermal camera. I even earned a certificate for my recent mastery of a multimeter.

That's funny, I have been looking at it all wrong!

I did send a picture to Factory Five, Dan said he would pass it on to the manufacturer once they go back to work. My only hope is that different people assemble different sections of the harness. I am going to take a chance that the rest of the harness is done correctly and move forward.

rich grsc

03-31-2020, 07:43 AM

RBachman

03-31-2020, 08:41 AM

That's funny, I have been looking at it all wrong!

I did send a picture to Factory Five, Dan said he would pass it on to the manufacturer once they go back to work. My only hope is that different people assemble different sections of the harness. I am going to take a chance that the rest of the harness is done correctly and move forward.

Humor gets me through the day, LOL. I think I may launch a complaint to RF also. Tracing down our own mistakes/missed steps/etc. is bad enough without having to repair a wire harness before using it. Double check the fuse panel, I had some wires out of place and located in adjacent slots. Initially, the only time my fan would run was when it wasn't needed because of a relay wiring issue, and there was another on the fuel pump that took a positive to ground...went through a few fuses figuring that out. LOL

BCrouse

03-31-2020, 09:53 AM

Bad splices in the RF harness was one of the things they warned us to look for during Build School. His example harness wasn't quite so bad but it was close. He also talked about the inadequate ground circuit but that's another can of worms.

Ron Francis is just trying to give us the Lucas experience so we're that much closer to the originals! :o

Mario

So, If is a known problem, It makes me wonder why are they still using this junk!

Also rich grsc
I know you are right. I'll drop the tank and check the back half to see what they look like. The worst part is after I cut off the shrink tube, there isn't a easy way to get any back on.

RBachman Sounds like you had a bigger problem than I do. My car is basically done other than the body and everything seems to work. (At this time)

jiriza84641

03-31-2020, 01:02 PM

oh man, not cool, I am looking at INFINTYBOX, module, covers all the wiring from what I read. only thing it is pricey!!

MSumners

03-31-2020, 01:18 PM

The worst part is after I cut off the shrink tube, there isn't a easy way to get any back on. (At this time)

Maybe your RF harness is different but I've had most of it apart and modified and it was only Sup33 electrical tape. I plan to check the few areas I haven't had open yet.

RBachman

03-31-2020, 01:31 PM

So, If is a known problem, It makes me wonder why are they still using this junk!.........................RBachman Sounds like you had a bigger problem than I do. My car is basically done other than the body and everything seems to work. (At this time)

I've got mine pretty much working right now. Or I should say, the manufacturing defects I know of are properly corrected. I can get a warranty replacement, however any replacement is likely to have manufacturing defects of its own. One thing is certain though, my repairs are far better engineered and of superior workmanship than the "professional" product I received. So I'm thinking it may be time to lick the wounds, flush the aggravation and march forward. Especially now that I'm not thinking of any more jokes about it. However, I could write a "Ron Francis Wiring Harness Survival Guide.":cool:

Chapter One: Err, Yeah, It Probably ain't Gonna Work Right (Formally, It Probably has Some Defects)
Chapter Two: Where's that Smoke Coming from?
Chapter Three: How to Temporarily Lower your Home Owners and Auto Insurance Deductibles.
Chapter Four: How to use a Fire Extinguisher.
Chapter Five: Treating Electrical Burns.
Chapter Six: Finding Shorts
Chapter Seven: Where's the Ground?
Chapter Eight: Advance Multi-Meter Operations
Chapter Nine: Replacing Fried Electrical Components
Chapter Ten: Where's this Wire SUPPOSED to go?
Chapter Eleven: What's that smell?
Chapter Twelve: How to deal with Aggravation and Disappointment, A Mental Health Guide.
Chapter Thirteen: It's Bush's Fault

I spoke with RF this morning and they will replace a faulty harness, but only after they receive the faulty one back. That's fair, and I understand that position. However, it makes replacement more difficult and time consuming than installing a new one as you remove the defective harness. You're also out all the consumables. It's sort of an insult to injury policy. RF does not assist with, compensate or provide anything else. New zip-ties, rivets, clamps, tape, solder, connectors, bandaids and anything else necessary for replacement are all on the victims...err, I mean us. Not exactly a "standing strong behind their expensive products" approach. Come on, RF, do something to say "we're sorry we squandered hours of your life that you'll never get back and consumed even more resources while driving up expenses." Heck RF, ask to hold a charge card until a customer sends the bad harness back or something. Or better yet, start properly testing these things before sending them out to unsuspecting buyers. How about a warning that the assembly is probably defective and provide instructions on how to verify each wire termination and placement before installation? Likewise, if your product requires repair/time/expense/risks to work, then lower your price a few hundred to reflect it. No one wants to work for free, especially when they've already paid you to provide a professionally assembled working product absent of unrepentant defects.

rich grsc

03-31-2020, 08:24 PM

Sorry, your book editor needs to have you do a re-write on Chapter One, it needs to be titled; It Has Defects.

glastron351

03-31-2020, 09:59 PM

Wow!! You just erased several months of therapy that I went through after I spent endless days (and nights) troubleshooting and repairing my RF harness. All sorts of horrific memories have now re-emerged.
In particular I specifically enjoyed tearing into the harness tracing back a grey wire that hat 12v on it for no apparent reason (the other end was not attached to anything). After putting enough change in my daughters 'swear jar' (she gets a buck everytime I use particularly foul language) to cover her first year of college I found the grey wire I was troubleshooting was interchanged with another grey wire at one of the molex connectors that was completely buried into the guts of my car.
All I can say is what a POS!! RF should be ashamed for putting out such garbage.....plus the fact that by the time it got to Canada I had to sell a kidney to pay for it (but I digress)...
Misery loves company.....not wishing these nightmares on anyone else but glad to here I am not alone on my experience with this so called 'product'

edwardb

03-31-2020, 10:09 PM

oh man, not cool, I am looking at INFINTYBOX, module, covers all the wiring from what I read. only thing it is pricey!!

Personally haven't used or installed one. A buddy has one. The one thing he's mentioned is that it will draw your battery down in about a week if you're not driving it. So it needs a manual battery cutoff, or they sell an automatic one (more $) or keep it on a charger. Something to add to your review when considering.

D Stand

03-31-2020, 10:47 PM

glastron351

03-31-2020, 11:05 PM

I am a union electrician in Seattle and would get fired if I built this harness with so many problems. I guess I get more practice taking the body off again and inspect ALL connections for bad splices. Sounds like I need to ring all circuits out as well. Better to find them now before a fire. I hope that the shared issues are a small percentage of the harnesses out there...

as a side note I am a power electrician responsible for day to day operations of our hydro-electric generators...and yes if our commissioning procedures were the same as RF testing procedures.....lets just say you would have to hope your solar panel system is in good working order...:)

rich grsc

04-01-2020, 07:59 AM

WOW, what a fun thread. I feel a bit dejected, I didn't get all these learning opportunities, NOT. Glad I had an Auto Wire harness and had no fun:rolleyes:. I knew there was some issue with the RF harness, but it must be worse than I thought. Why hasn't Factory Five looked into this, or have they?

Jeff Kleiner

04-01-2020, 08:13 AM

....The one thing he's mentioned is that it will draw your battery down in about a week if you're not driving it....

Is it an Optima battery?

Sorry Paul but you can't put something like that out there and think that I won't take a swing at it :D :D :D

Cheers,
Jeff

Jeff Kleiner

04-01-2020, 08:41 AM

For years I was a RF cheerleader but have lost my enthusiasm since it seems their QC has gone down the toilet. I did a few cars between 2010 and 2016 with the Francis harness which were flawless. Fast forward to last year when I get a letter from FFR asking me to check the two harnesses I had just received because RF had determined that a batch went out with a miswire on the fuse panel (fuel pump circuit if memory serves). One was correct, the other was not so back it went. They turned it around promptly and I began wiring the car when it came back. While laying it out I went through my usual check of making sure that all the wires match on both sides of every pair of plugs; i.e. pink to pink, green to green, etc. While doing this I found that I had a male plug on a branch that joined with the front harness WHICH ALSO HAD A MALE PLUG! It was the main harness that was wrong so back it went for the second time. It came back, I wired the car and everything worked perfectly. Those two round trips probably amounted to 4 weeks which isn't a problem for me since I've always got others to work on but for you guys who are trying to keep moving forward on your only build I know this would have been a tremendous setback and understand your frustration. I wasn't aware that so many others have been encountering multiple issues. Sounds like it's time for FFR to put a little pressure on RF to step it up or risk being replaced as a supplier.

Jeff

Derald Rice

04-01-2020, 09:52 AM

Sounds like it's time for FFR to put a little pressure on RF to step it up or risk being replaced as a supplier.

Jeff

RF is already the third supplier for FFR, how many other options are there for an alternate manufacturer ?

SteveP

04-01-2020, 09:57 AM

Thanks for the heads up. My fuse block had the flasher sockets misplaced but it was obvious and easy to fix. Now it looks like I better ohm out every wire before final installation.

karlos

04-01-2020, 10:00 AM

Took delivery of my MKIV kit in 2015. Found the issue shown below when trying to troubleshoot a no-power situation on one of the accessory circuits (electric choke, if I recall correctly). So the QC problems have apparently been there for a while. In fairness, though, I haven't had any other major problems since.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=125422&d=1585752701

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=125421&d=1585752680

SteveP

04-01-2020, 10:00 AM

Steinair might build harnesses. They build them for Vans aircraft kits.

RBachman

04-01-2020, 12:46 PM

I agree with our electrical experts above. I'm an engineer (electrical and mechanical). In 35 years of doing design and construction work, I've not seen a "professional" product this consistently defective. The RF attitude seems to be "ship it, someone else can figure it out." Then they make the return more work than necessary with their "Insult to Injury" warranty.

If FFR continues to use the RF harness, they should also take responsibility for the extra work and aggravation involved. There is no way these RF jokers are testing these things. Regardless, it's obvious that: (my opinion only)

1. The value is not there...not even close.
2. They deliver more headaches than wins.
3. They don't care. They have zero pride in their products and shy from professionalism. They truly do not give a F. This was obvious when I spoke with them yesterday.
4. They are a major sore spot in my build as well as many others.
5. Quality control and professionalism are both severely lacking.
6. The cost in time and materials to correct their ineptness easily outweighs the value of their product.
7. Customer service is as bad as their quality control.
8. Someone needs to loose their job before they put a car on fire and burn down someone's home.

RF quality is little more than a con-job. Their product does not work reliably and isn't worth the cost and effort. They are neither reputable or credible. And they seem to be working pretty darn hard on keeping all these things sub-par. Regardless, it's rare to see a company take such a "we don't give a F" attitude with their customers. At that however, RF may be the top in their field.

rich grsc

04-01-2020, 02:59 PM

Factory Five, are you reading this, Dave?

edwardb

04-01-2020, 03:07 PM

Is it an Optima battery?

Sorry Paul but you can't put something like that out there and think that I won't take a swing at it :D :D :D

Cheers,
Jeff

Cheap shot Jeff... :rolleyes: In this case it's because apparently that system has significant parasitic draw. So even will happen with a good (aka not Optima?) battery.

Brian76

04-02-2020, 02:31 PM

Well...reading this post is a real downer! I'm at least thankful that we are currently working on wiring the car and have access to everything. Where do you guys recommend I start? I'm electrically challenged.

I foresee a future STICKY for this topic :mad:

Sigurd

04-02-2020, 04:35 PM

D Stand

04-04-2020, 03:45 PM

So just getting started with checking my harness for issues. Started with ringing out wires with a multi-meter and most things are ok. But it was confusing when I got to the fuse panel/relays. The wiring diagram provided does not give much detail. I decided to mark it up (see attached drawing) to show the actual wiring in and out of the relays and fuses. You will notice that they are not consistent with their wiring.
- The fuel pump relay is wired properly protected via the fuse.
- The horn and cooling fan relays are not. The fuse is only protecting the outgoing wires. Not the relays or small gauge wires tapped off the larger wire that comes right from the battery via the starter solenoid un-fused.
-Also the attached picture shows what they did with the cooling fan feed which at minimum should have been wired like picture suggests so no splicing in the loom. At least the slice is soldered below shrink tube.👍
- If they simply wired the entire BATT FED fuse block with a four gang tap (like on IGN FED) and wired them like the the fuel pump relay it would protect the relays and small gauge wire and devices and avoid NOT NEEDED SPLICES BURIED UNDER TAPE AND WIRE LOOM NEVER TO BE FOUND BY THE POOR GUY THAT BOUGHT THIS AND WANTS TO ENJOY THEIR CAR. 😤🤬🤯

OK I am done ranting on.....

Hope this at least helps others understand what is going on behind the fuse panel and I really hope I will not find too many more items like others are reporting.

Dale

Big Spark

05-09-2020, 07:01 PM

I'm new to the FFR world and the forum. I bought a gen 1 type 65 Daytona coupe, #405 last year. It has developed an electrical issue. While driving all the gauges will zero out momentarily then back to normal. I've pulled the dash out checking for loose connections but have found nothing. Any help would be appreciated or steer me in the right direction for the correct thread to read. I'll go thru my paper work to see what wiring harness it came with. Car was completed in 2010 and hardly driven. Had just over 1000 miles. Thanks

D Stand

05-09-2020, 07:23 PM

If all gauges go out together than you are looking for a single loose connection. All gauges share a common ground and constant hot. To help narrow it down they also share a lighting circuit. So if the back lights go out at the same time, it is the ground. If not, it is the hot to the gauges.

Mike Garrett

05-09-2020, 08:03 PM

I just wired my dash and now I am worried, I never been good with electrical so I can only hope for the best.

mlewis

05-10-2020, 08:21 AM

I just buttoned up my dash wiring.... got everything dressed and in conduit … and now I'm reading this … I think I'm going to puke.

I did some light visual QC along the way (no obvious issues found) but mainly focused on my own stuff. I really don't feel like pulling the whole thin apart.

Maybe I'll power is up and hope for the best …

GWL

05-10-2020, 08:50 AM

Well, reading this thread was a real downer. I've got an early Mk4 so maybe, like Jeff K mentioned, they were done a little better some 10 years ago. I have made a bunch of major modifications to the wiring and have not found any bad connections like the one originally shown and mentioned.

I did have one oddity with the trunk wiring. I had to run the trunks wiring to the drivers side instead of the passenger as shown in the wiring directions. In other words, the passenger and divers sides, trunk and tail lights too were wired the opposite of what they were supposed to be. I figured it out early on and just made the change and have tested it and all the lighting and turn signals front and rear work fine.

I also made a major change with the alternator wiring coming from inside the engine compartment. As I remember, that heavy red wire coming from the alternator took a long loop into and behind the dash and back out to the engine compartment for no reason at all. I increased the wire size, added a fuse because I was using a 135 amp alternator and shorten it directly to a positive buss bar in the engine compartment.

George

sread

05-10-2020, 08:55 AM

I just ordered the AAW highway 22 system for my hotrod (on backorder ). Hope I have a better experience.

wallace18

05-10-2020, 09:34 AM

In the 14 FFR kits I have built so far all had RF harnesses except 2. I have had only one incident involving a bad connection for the in tank fuel pump plug. I guess I have been lucky so far. :confused:

JohnK

05-10-2020, 10:51 AM

edwardb

05-10-2020, 11:36 AM

I'm not for a second going to defend poor quality or the need for prompt and proper resolution if defects are found. Obviously some folks in this thread have some strong opinions and I'm not to argue any of that. If RF has a problem, they need to fix it. But what is missing from this thread (and other similar ones with other products) is that defects tend to get posted while the many that get installed without issue don't. By all means buzz out and check circuits as you're wiring your car. Which you should do anyway. It's a relatively simple harness and just not complicated. The schematic diagram in the manual is easy to follow and a big resource. Open the convolute and check splices if you're so inclined. There aren't that many. Mainly I'd recommend that new builders not give up before getting into it. My personal sample size is three RF harnesses. I tend to modify things a lot so had them all pretty much stripped. I didn't find anything defective in mine. FWIW.

JohnK

05-10-2020, 01:24 PM

Thanks Paul. You're absolutely right that what typically gets reported on forums are only the bad experiences. Nobody is going to come here and post about how their RF harness didn't give them any problems. ;) I'm sure the reported failures are but a small fraction of all the harnesses they make. I'm trying to temper my concern with this, but also be cognizant of the fact that being one of the "unlucky" ones will really suck if you don't find the problem until much later down the road. I'd rather spend a little time and effort upfront when the harness is on my workbench than trying to track down electrical gremlins once the car is built.

KenWilkinson

05-10-2020, 04:00 PM

I agree that this thread is a bit of a downer. I haven't yet started working on the electrical system on my roadster, and I'm now left wondering whether I need to completely strip down my RF harness to check for bad splices and terminations, and then re-dress it. This then begs the next question, which is... if I'm going to go through all of that trouble should I just go the Infinitybox route? Yes, it's $1,500 but it's also peace of mind that I'm not going to be fighting electrical gremlins down the road and (from what little I've learned about it so far) does provide some nice features.

just started myself. Bummer. The dash segment has all the wrong connectors. I figured, all I needed to do was (AND IT SHOULD BE!) plug in spade connectors to the instruments. Nope. Got tiny spades and some kind of tiny black things I can barely see. Called FFR, TOLD TO CUT THEM OFF. Called RF, TOLD THIS IS WHAT FFR SPEC'D. Jeepers. Guys

edwardb

05-10-2020, 04:06 PM

just started myself. Bummer. The dash segment has all the wrong connectors. I figured, all I needed to do was (AND IT SHOULD BE!) plug in spade connectors to the instruments. Nope. Got tiny spades and some kind of tiny black things I can barely see. Called FFR, TOLD TO CUT THEM OFF. Called RF, TOLD THIS IS WHAT FFR SPEC'D. Jeepers. Guys

The connectors on the dash harness are for Speedhut Vintage gauges. If you have anything other than Speedhut (e.g. Autometer) then yes, you do have to cut off the connectors. Says that in the RF chassis wiring harness directions.

KenWilkinson

05-10-2020, 04:29 PM

The connectors on the dash harness are for Speedhut Vintage gauges. If you have anything other than Speedhut (e.g. Autometer) then yes, you do have to cut off the connectors. Says that in the RF chassis wiring harness directions.

Right. So why don't they have a Autometer spec'd harness too? THey are hand made by RF, shouldn't be a problem. If I had known, I might have ordered the Vintage guages, but I don't think it was an option when I ordered the truck. I have number 14.

FYI, thanks for letting me vent.

stack

05-10-2020, 05:40 PM

I have used the RF harness on 3 builds 0 problems. Hope they get the issues straightened out because it is by far the simplest wire harness i have ever used.

stack

JohnK

05-11-2020, 01:28 AM

What would be the proper way to correct the splices shown in the first post, for someone that doesn't solder particularly well? Would a Molex step-down Permaseal butt connector work?

Let's say, for example there's a joint where one 14ga wire splits off into two 14ga wires. I found this calculator online for figuring out the effective gauge of multiple wires

https://www.wirebarn.com/Combined-Wire-Gauge-Calculator_ep_42.html

so two 14ga wires twisted together are effectively one 11ga wire, so I think I could use the 10-12ga to 14-16ga step-down butt connector to join the one wire to the two wires. Is that correct, or is there a better solution?

D Stand

05-11-2020, 09:05 AM

John,

These are what I used to connect wires of different sizes or really where multiple wires tap off each other like the grounds. Once crimped, I used glue lined heat shrink to insulate. These are similar to a butt connector. These are a single crimp connector so all wires will go in and make a better connection than a regular butt.

https://www.delcity.net/store/Parallel-Connectors/p_823990.h_792254

This is a great overview connection video that might help guide you regardless which direction you decide to go. I could not figure out how to copy the link so you will have to type it in... (How to Know When to Crimp vs Solder - Holley Tech)

phileas_fogg

05-12-2020, 03:32 PM

What would be the proper way to correct the splices shown in the first post, for someone that doesn't solder particularly well? Would a Molex step-down Permaseal butt connector work? ...

I would use https://www.delcity.net/store/Lead!Free-Heat-Shrink,-Crimp-&-Solder-Jars/p_917546.h_824696 from DelCity. They are butt connectors with integrated solder & heat shrink. You'll find it easiest to get the heat gun around the connector when the harness is out of the car.

John

P.S. Keep the heat gun pointed AWAY from any heater duct you've got in the vicinity. You'll deform the duct.

Avalanche325

05-12-2020, 03:46 PM

The connectors on the dash harness are for Speedhut Vintage gauges. If you have anything other than Speedhut (e.g. Autometer) then yes, you do have to cut off the connectors. Says that in the RF chassis wiring harness directions.

Has this changed? When I built mine, the harness was made for Autometer. It really annoyed me that I have to spice everything when using the "standard" gauges, and run wires for two wire sensors.

edwardb

05-12-2020, 07:55 PM

Has this changed? When I built mine, the harness was made for Autometer. It really annoyed me that I have to spice everything when using the "standard" gauges, and run wires for two wire sensors.

Yes. The version that came with my Coupe (Revision S, Feb 2017) had a number of minor changes plus this one. Had Speedhut gauge connectors and Speedhut specific instructions in the harness instructions. Could be an even later revision by now.

JohnK

05-13-2020, 04:59 PM

I'm almost at the point where I'm going to start installing harnesses, and this thread motivated me to do a little QC on them in advance of spending labor hours installing them. I started with the rear harness, as it's a fairly simple one, and one of the first to go in. It passed a continuity test with no problems and the connectors all look fine. I decided I'd peel a little tape off and look at one of the spices just to get a sense for what's in there, as there appear to be several splices (especially on the ground wire) on this harness. What I found is below. This splice seems sound mechanically and electrically, and passes a pull test. However, I'm not so sure I'm a huge fan of the whole "twist everything together and solder it" approach to splices. Granted I've never manufactured wire harnesses myself, but I've worked in commercial manufacturing operations for 25+ years and spent a LOT of time assessing vendor quality in many commodities including electromechanical assemblies. This is not the type of workmanship I would ever see on a wire harness going into any product we'd manufacture, but then again this harness is not going into a multimillion dollar piece of capital equipment. Is my concern unfounded here? I'm inclined to do something with these splices, even if they're "OK" at the moment. Thoughts?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128331&d=1589406433

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128330&d=1589406423

edwardb

05-13-2020, 10:04 PM

Not a thing wrong with that connection as far as I'm concerned. Lots of wrap, it's tight, solder looks like it flowed well and is bright and clean. Unfortunately now the shrink wrap is cut off which also provided some mechanical support to the joint. There are quite a few similar connections in the harness. In grounds as you mention, in the lighting circuits getting lights to both sides, and several as I recall in the dash harness. My personal opinion is if they pass the continuity and pull test, I wouldn't do anything including taking off the shrink wrap unless you trace a particular issue to that connection. Which I suspect you won't. Also FWIW, those multi-wire joins are the only place in the harness I've seen solder. Everything else is crimped only.

JohnK

05-13-2020, 10:45 PM

edwardb

05-14-2020, 06:12 AM

Thanks for the reassurance Paul. I only took the shrink wrap off this one joint, just to see what was under there. I'll put some small zip-ties on the wire bundles upstream and downstream of the joint to provide it with some mechanical support against pulling, and cover it with some liquid electrical tape to seal it up. As I said, it's not any sort of workmanship I've ever seen in a commercially produced harness, but if it looks good to you I'll leave it be and call it good enough.

It's not just good enough. It's fine. A totally acceptable wire to join wires of this type. Also, very different (in a good way!) than the obviously unacceptable examples pictured in the very first post of this thread, e.g. poor wrap, cold solder, solder missed completely. Typically, harnesses like this are assembled on a harness board by a single operator. Been around them in my career for military and automotive mfg. A lot of hand work to this day, especially a smaller operation like RF. While not a sure thing, a pretty good chance that others in your harness are similar to the one you checked.

legend42

05-14-2020, 06:33 AM

128357
Found this little gem last night! Anything wrong replacing with a weather pack connection?

rich grsc

05-14-2020, 07:14 AM

128357
Found this little gem last night! Anything wrong replacing with a weather pack connection?

Just unpin one side, match the colors and reinsert the pins. Nothing needs replacing

egchewy79

05-14-2020, 09:04 AM

128357
Found this little gem last night! Anything wrong replacing with a weather pack connection?

are you sure you connected the weatherpack correctly? There should be a clip to slides into the groove of the top piece being shown that attaches the two when pushed in all the way, giving you a "click" once seated. if you flip the bottom connector over, it would line up your colored wires.

edwardb

05-14-2020, 09:06 AM

Just unpin one side, match the colors and reinsert the pins. Nothing needs replacing

Agree 100%. Just remove the offending pins and swap as needed. If you've ever made up your own Weatherpack connections, you'd know how easy it is to pin them in a mirror image like that. Not that it's happened to me. :p

Weatherpacks are very high quality. Don't replace it. You'll need an extractor tool like this one. https://www.amazon.com/Fastronix-Weather-Pack-Removal-Tool/dp/B0051POYJ2. Or you can make something if you have the right size tubing. Just needs to slide over the pin and press the tab down so you can pull the wire out. Wouldn't recommend any other process. You'll likely damage the pin or the connector. Been there done that.

are you sure you connected the weatherpack correctly? There should be a clip to slides into the groove of the top piece being shown that attaches the two when pushed in all the way, giving you a "click" once seated. if you flip the bottom connector over, it would line up your colored wires.

No, it's the right way. Typically wouldn't go in that far if one side were upside down. Plus you can see the "A - B - C" markers lining up on each half.

legend42

05-14-2020, 10:01 AM

Agree 100%. Just remove the offending pins and swap as needed. If you've ever made up your own Weatherpack connections, you'd know how easy it is to pin them in a mirror image like that. Not that it's happened to me. :p

Weatherpacks are very high quality. Don't replace it. You'll need an extractor tool like this one. https://www.amazon.com/Fastronix-Weather-Pack-Removal-Tool/dp/B0051POYJ2. Or you can make something if you have the right size tubing. Just needs to slide over the pin and press the tab down so you can pull the wire out. Wouldn't recommend any other process. You'll likely damage the pin or the connector. Been there done that.

No, it's the right way. Typically wouldn't go in that far if one side were upside down. Plus you can see the "A - B - C" markers lining up on each half.

Pins swapped, easy fix. Thanks all for the help.