Gen III Coupe #17 FRPP dyno pull

[Dave Tabor]

Here's a pull to ~6200 rpm. Pull was in 4th gear (140 mph by the Tremec calculator).

Engine is a carbureted Ford Racing 302 (Boss block, B cam 284/284, Lift .480/.480, QuickFuel annular booster carb).

https://youtu.be/57I0kYySK0c

Not setting any records but pulls fine past 6000 rpm which was a surprise. The dyno was to get the curve to decide on shift points- no need to short-shift this thing.

Got a ticket to do a half-mile drag event in 2 weeks.

It was a glorious sound.

Dave
Gen III Coupe #17

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[nskaats]

Excellent torque curve

[Logan]

Nice clean power and torque curves there.

Post results from your half mile event! That sounds pretty interesting actually, coming from a corner junkie.

[eshanabrook]

Good choice on power, I'm considering something similar, maybe a little higher rev range. Probably puts me into a custom built motor which would be a fun project too. What other motor options did you consider?

[Dave Tabor]

I considered just about everything- even a Chevy motor.

It just seemed easiest to go old-school, small block Ford and from there I considered crate motors from ATK, Blueprint and Ford Racing.

One wire to the coil, mechanical fuel pump and you are running. I had zero issues getting running and I tuned the carb using a wide-band O2 sensor/gauge. I have carb-tuning experience and I like to do it. I like that when the engine stops so does fuel pressure. And pulling the fuel rather than pushing it a high pressure - it's just me.

I really wanted the internals to be all forged and good rotating parts (SFI-approved flywheel, balancer, etc.) as I knew I'd be rev'ing the thing and you are pretty much 'riding' the motor.

I really like the Boss block- among other things it has screw-in freeze plugs (so don't freeze it).

I was also really concerned about getting a motor/heads that had 'OEM' exhaust port positions/geometry- thinking this would be an issue with the FFR-supplied headers/sidepipes. I ended up fabricating my own header-sidepipe elbows anyway.

The 345 hp 302 is fine- it seems bomb-proof and I shift at 6000+ all the time- it pulls well even up there. But another 50 hp would be nice once you hit 3rd gear. And maybe then I'd get used to that and want another 50.

If I were to do this again, I'd get the FRPP 363 with 500+ hp.

The performance goals were a mid-12 second quarter mile at ~ 110 mph. And not kill myself in my first short wheelbase kit car. The car does have more traction than I though it would and can use more power. I'm on 200 TW Nitto NTO5s. Soon to be NTO1s.

Dave

[Jacob McCrea]

Thanks for posting all of this. I have the same engine in an unfinished Gen II Type 65, with a GT40 tubular EFI intake, and chose the engine for basically all the same reasons. Glad to hear it is a good choice, all things considered.

[GoDadGo]

Have you made any quarter mile passes yet?

[smithtlw]

What pipes/inserts during the pull?

-Todd

[Dave Tabor]

Sonoma drags (quarter mile) this Wednesday.

The inserts for the dyno and what I'll be using at the drags are:

Hooker Super Competition Sidetube Slip-in Mufflers 21046HKR

I'm tempted to try the dyno again with no inserts.

Dave

[Jacob McCrea]

I'm disinterring this old thread for comparison, after getting the car tuned on a dyno yesterday. The long block is the same as Dave's, but with a GT40 tubular intake, 24lb injectors and a 70mm throttle body. With the hood open and a fan blowing at the mass air sensor it made 270 horsepower at about 5,100 rpms, but 303 ft lbs. at 3,500 rpms.

I was really surprised by how much torque it makes at low rpms, and how flat the torque curve is, with about 275 ft lbs. at 2,200 rpms. Also, pointing the shop fan at the mass air sensor, from about 6 feet away, added 11 horsepower compared to just having the hood open. I will try to post the video because the sound of the thing heading past 5,500 is wonderful. Final dyno run is attached.

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[Dave Tabor]

Jacob,

That's really cool- thanks for remembering this post and bringing it back.

There is some reported difference between the numbers a Mustang vs. a Dynojet dyno will obtain.

My car now as 14,000+ hard miles on it, maybe 50 quarter-mile runs, ten or more track days, a few autocrosses and 120-mile rally at 100 mph.

I beat the hell out of it. I did blow a head gasket and changed them both - that was not good as I cooked the motor to the point of no-crank/locked but it keeps on going. I have the idea to dyno it again but quarter mile times are the same. The car runs a low 13 sec at ~105 mph quarter mile. The half mile event never happened due to the pandemic but I did run another event at ~6000 feet elevation and only hit 120. It's kind of hard to launch off the line but it is what is is.

Videos and stuff can be found on both Instagram and YouTube under davesdaytona.

Dave
Gen III Coupe #17

[Jacob McCrea]

Dave,

I'll check out those videos soon. I couldn't figure out how to link the facebook video of the dyno run to this site, so here are some photos.

Are you running an oil cooler, and if so, what kind/size and where is it mounted? I have a power steering cooler on the left of the radiator and want to install an oil cooler before taking it on the track. I'm thinking of a big Setrab Series 1 unit in the post-fan ducting, which is where at least one original had a cooler. Any guidance is appreciated.

169800169799

[Jim1855]

Dave,

You are correct that the Mustang and Dynojets read differently.

I don't remember the exact number and there probably isn't one, but I think we were estimating about 8% lower on the MD.

At the same time an unscrupulous operator can tweak the numbers to make their tuning work look better than it really is.

Jim

[Dave Tabor]

Dave,


Are you running an oil cooler, and if so, what kind/size and where is it mounted? I have a power steering cooler on the left of the radiator and want to install an oil cooler before taking it on the track. I'm thinking of a big Setrab Series 1 unit in the post-fan ducting, which is where at least one original had a cooler. Any guidance is appreciated.



Hi Jacob,

I ran one HPDE with no cooler and oil temps went up to 260F+ (conventional oil).

I then added a Derale Cooling Products 15845 dual fan unit on the inside of the engine compartment, just above the steering rack- with an undercar scoop to direct ambient air to it. Still late in a 20 minute track session temps were 240F+. During a ~36-minute rally run at ~100 mph (~3850 rpm) temps crept up to 260F+. And my oil temp gauge scale is not linear nor accurate up there.

It seems to be sustained rpm that gets the oil temps up there. Coolant stays ~190F. RPM does it: perhaps valvetrain heat and/or oil is moving too fast through too small a cooler.

I just set up a cooler like I've seen on one of the original cars, as you mentioned. It's a Setrab SET-625-7612. 6 extra rows over the Derale.

I don't like feeding it 'hot' radiator air but it won't fit where the Derale was mounted (pics of the Derale cooler and where it was mounted). However I can go to an even larger Setrab cooler with the same width/fittings.

I need to get the radiator and nose re-installed and then do some testing- Sunday if all goes well.

Dave
Gen III Coupe #17

[Skuzzy]

I'll weigh in here.

For conventional motor oils a good operating temperature range is between 220F and 230F. Above 275F will begin the process of breaking down the oil and its additives. A good range for synthetics is 220F and 240F. They start breaking down around 300F.

If you are taking the oil temperature from the oil pan, then you could add about 10F to 30F, to what your gauge is showing (if the gauge is showing 220F, then it is probably closer to 230F, if it is showing 270F, then it is probably closer to 300F, as an example), as pan oil is a bit cooler than what is running in the engine.

If the oil viscosity is too high, it can cause the oil to run hotter.

As usual, your mileage may vary....

[Dave Tabor]

I'm starting a new Coupe oil cooler thread as the results are in.

Dave
Gen III Coupe #17