EFI Fuel Pump not turning on.

[delta0014]

Getting ready to attempt a start. When I turn the key on, the fuel pump does nothing. The gas gauge works, but no noise from the fuel pump and nothing on the fuel pressure regulator.

I haven't attempted to turn over the engine yet.

Did I wire this correctly? Was I suppose to cut the orange and solder to the tan wire?


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=123203&d=1582638596

Instructions say to cut the orange wire, which I did. Then solder it to the green wire.
Although the pic looks like it's soldered to the tan wire.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=123202&d=1582638582

This is the RF instructions and says to cut the tan wire, but there isn't even a orange wire on this diagram.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=123201&d=1582638570

[delta0014]

So, the Ignition relay trigger connected to the orange wire is getting power. The orange and the tan coming from the fuse block are both getting power....

[delta0014]

The green fuel pump wire from the Coyote computer is not getting any power when I initially turn the key....

[delta0014]

Hooked the tan and orange wires together and the fuel pump ran constantly if I just bypass the green wire from the Coyote computer.

[edwardb]

I'd encourage not hooking misc. wires together without understanding what's happening. Surefire way to pop fuses or worse. So a brief explanation. The relay you're looking at is for the fuel pump, but more specifically for the inertia switch. RF has made some changes to how that relay is wired, which I agree is confusing. The pictures you posted show how it's changed. There's yet another version. But in the end the way you had it wired in the first picture should work. With it wired that way the relay is energized by the Coyote green fuel pump wire. With the relay closed, the fuel pump gets power from the RF panel via the large brown wire and runs the pump. So put it back the way you had it in the first picture. I assume you're turning the ignition switch to the run position. If wired properly, the pump should run briefly pressurizing the system. Then shut off until you move the key to start and the engine starts. Four things I can think that would prevent it from working:

1. Do you have the inertia switch installed and the button pushed down? The relay gets its ground through that circuit. Missing or open inertia switch will prevent the relay from closing and powering your fuel pump. This is true with or without Coyote wiring.

2. Do you have the other Coyote pigtail wires attached? You should have the ignition sense and start sense wires connected. If the Coyote system doesn't have +12V on the ignition sense wire when you turn the key on the PCM will not command the fuel pump to start. Obviously the engine won't run without that +12V either. All the connections are explained in the Ford Performance control pack instructions.

3. Maybe you blew a fuse in the Coyote PDB? Check the fuel pump fuses.

4. Finally, this maybe doesn't apply but will mention anyway. Once working, the fuel pump will only run briefly as explained before. So don't expect it to run continuously when you first turn the key on. If the engine isn't started, turn the key back off. It will reset in about 10 seconds. You can hear the relay click off in the PDB when it resets.

[delta0014]

Inertia switch is hooked up and button is down.
Everything is hooked up that I can see.

The green wire is not putting any power out. I’ll hook a volt meter to it and nothing when I turn the key. I understand it doesn’t last long but there’s nothing.

I reconnected the wires as they originally were on the fuse box, thats when the fuel pump comes on when the key is on. The engine will turn over too.

[Papa]

Inertia switch is hooked up and button is down.
Everything is hooked up that I can see.

The green wire is not putting any power out. I’ll hook a volt meter to it and nothing when I turn the key. I understand it doesn’t last long but there’s nothing.

I reconnected the wires as they originally were on the fuse box, thats when the fuel pump comes on when the key is on. The engine will turn over too.

I don't have any experience with the Coyote wiring, so Paul is your guy. However, if I understand what you've said so far, with an unmodified (original) wiring of the RF fuse block, your fuel pump comes on when the key is in the on position, that tells me that the relay is good and the ground through the inertia switch is good. If you get nothing on the fuel pump control wire (green wire) then the Coyote control module isn't sending the signal to control the pump. Something is a miss and I'd try to understand all the inputs needed for the controller to energize the fuel pump. Do you have proper voltage and ground to the controller?

[edwardb]

Inertia switch is hooked up and button is down.
Everything is hooked up that I can see.

The green wire is not putting any power out. I’ll hook a volt meter to it and nothing when I turn the key. I understand it doesn’t last long but there’s nothing.

I reconnected the wires as they originally were on the fuse box, thats when the fuel pump comes on when the key is on. The engine will turn over too.

That means the RF fuel pump circuit is working but you really do want the Coyote system controlling that. Which leaves my point #2 from my first post. Do you have the other Coyote pigtail wires properly hooked up? The fact that you don't have voltage on the green fuel pump wire tells me the PCM is not calling for the fuel pump because it's maybe not getting the +12V on the Light Green Ignition Relay Trigger Coyote pigtail wire. As it says in the Ford Performance instructions, without voltage on that wire the engine will neither start or stay running. Normally it's hooked to an ignition controlled wire from the RF harness. Like the orange EFI/Coil wire. Or the tan electric choke wire. I've used both and either works. Also curious how you have the starting circuit wired. Since the fuel pump wire isn't energized, tells me the PCM isn't ready for a start, which also means the starter shouldn't energize. Did you use the Coyote starter wire along with the Coyote pigtail light blue Starter Motor Request (SMR)? Or the RF starter wire? Which wire is hooked to the small post on the starter? Also are you holding the clutch down?

There's only a handful of wires on the Coyote system. With everything hooked properly up it should fire right up. Also you want your fuel pressure regulated properly before the first start. Which regulator are you using?

[delta0014]

All the pigtails seem to be hooked up. Doesn’t look like I could even hook them up wrong as they’re different sizes.

Going to the starter, I have the starter lead wire from the Coyote harness.

I have the light green wire connected to the orange wire and even took the wrap off and tested it. It does have power going to it.

So just to confirm, what wire should I hook the green wire too? The orange or tan. The tan says electric fuel pump. And should I cut the other?

I set the fuel pressure regulator when I had the fuel pump going continuously, that made it easy.

I rechecked all the grounds I could find, even took the computer off to make sure it was connected right.

Clutch was in. It won’t turn over without the clutch in, I tried.

[delta0014]

I have a battery Cable going to the starter, along with another cable to the 250amp fuse and another group of cables on the same plug which looks to be going to the alternator and the fuse box under the drivers side

[edwardb]

All the pigtails seem to be hooked up. Doesn’t look like I could even hook them up wrong as they’re different sizes.
I don’t know about that. Could certainly be hooked up wrong.


Going to the starter, I have the starter lead wire from the Coyote harness.
Correct


I have the light green wire connected to the orange wire and even took the wrap off and tested it. It does have power going to it.
OK, I assume you mean light green = Coyote pigtail Ignition Relay Trigger. Orange = RF EFI/Coil wire. And when you say “power going to it” you mean the orange EFI/Coil wire has +12V when the ignition switch is turned on. The fact that you can "hot wire" the fuel pump (e.g. run without the Coyote controlling it) with fuel pressure and the engine doesn't start tells me the PCM isn't ready for the engine to run. Not turning on the pump or the ignition maybe? This has to be exactly as described. It’s the main signal to the Coyote system to wake up and do its thing.


So just to confirm, what wire should I hook the green wire too? The orange or tan. The tan says electric fuel pump. And should I cut the other?
Again, helps to be more precise. RF or Coyote? As I mentioned before, your first picture was correct. You had the Coyote pigtail green fuel pump wire attached to the orange RF relay control wire. The orange RF wire is cut where it’s attached to the fuse area on the RF panel. And the loose end is attached to the Coyote fuel pump wire. So what’s happening is the +12V on the Coyote green fuel pump wire is closing the relay and allowing the RF panel to power the fuel pump through the tan wire. You should be able to measure +12V on the loose end of the Coyote green fuel pump wire when the key is turned on. But you have to be ready because it happens quick and then shuts off. And it won’t come back on until it resets as I described before. So it’s easy to think it’s not working when it is. You can also hear the relay in the Coyote PDB clicking when it’s switching. If you don’t hear that or see any voltage, then back to fuses and relays in the Coyote PDB. The fuel pump circuit has a small fuse, a large fuse, and a relay. Your Ford Performance instructions have a map of where each is at in the PDB.


I set the fuel pressure regulator when I had the fuel pump going continuously, that made it easy.
I rechecked all the grounds I could find, even took the computer off to make sure it was connected right.
Clutch was in. It won’t turn over without the clutch in, I tried.

All that sounds OK.


I have a battery Cable going to the starter, along with another cable to the 250amp fuse and another group of cables on the same plug which looks to be going to the alternator and the fuse box under the drivers side

Not completely understanding this statement. Assume the fuse box you mention here is the RF fuse panel? You obviously have power in the RF panel or the fuel pump wouldn't run when powered by it. I'm assuming the 250 amp fuse you mention is the Coyote fuse, and it's inline before the Coyote PDB? You should be able to measure +12V on the big post on the front of the PDB, and if wired properly on all the time. Not controlled by the ignition switch. All bets are off if the Coyote PDB isn't powered.

[delta0014]

The light green and orange wire has 12v. The two blue ones don’t have any power. The post next to the PDB has 12v.

[delta0014]

I replaced the 40amp fuse and the relay in the PDB... Just in case.

[edwardb]

The light green and orange wire has 12v. The two blue ones don’t have any power. The post next to the PDB has 12v.

OK, again I'm going to assume light green is the Coyote pigtail Ignition Relay Trigger and the orange wire is the RF EFI/Coil wire, which should be connected. And I'm also going to assume there is only +12V when the key is first turned on to the run position.

For the blue wires, I assume you are talking about the RF EFI crank wire Coyote pigtail Starter Motor Request (SMR)? Also which should be connected. There would not be +12V when the key is first turned to the run position. Only when the key is turned to the start position.

Since your starter is energizing, I'm going to assume both of those connections are working. So did you return the fuel pump wiring like I described before? Like in your first picture? Did you probe that connection to see if there was +12V briefly after turning the key to the run position? It's only a second or two so you have to be ready with the VOM attached (or whatever you're using) and ready to read.

So my next and probably final question is with the fuel pump wiring like described, with the Coyote fuel pump wire to the RF fuel pump relay trigger, does the fuel pump start running when you go to the start position? With the clutch down and the motor turning over? Probably you would need to still have a VOM on the connection to read the voltage since you probably wouldn't be able to hear the fuel pump with the motor cranking. If so, now you're duplicated a problem I had with my Gen 3 Coyote control pack. I worked with Ford Performance, and eventually had to send my PCM back for a new calibration. Since mine was very early (I was literally the first production delivery of the Gen 3 Coyote crate) I assume whatever change was necessary would be on later units. Maybe not. That might be your next step. To call and see if your PCM needs to go back.

[delta0014]

Yes, sorry I should specify the wires but your assumptions are correct. I did hook up the fuel pump wiring like it was in the first picture. I tested it and there is no voltage to it, I let the computer reset for awhile too in between tries. Can't hear the fuel pump at all either, fuel pump is loud too when it was running so I should be able to hear it.

I turned the key to the start position without the clutch being pressed and there is no volts nor can I hear the fuel pump.
I have not tried to test the voltage while actually turning over the motor with the clutch depressed. I will try that tomorrow, I've had enough for today...

I'm gonna try to have a mechanic come over tomorrow night if this doesn't work. I think I'm in over my head trying to figure out why this doesn't work.

I do appreciate all the help.

[delta0014]

Figured I'd post a few pics of problems...
This is how I put it back together, green coyote wire on the orange fuel relay. Tan fuel pump wires are together.
The orange wire going into the fuse has nothing on it.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=123203&d=1582638596

Fuel pressure regulator. Should be set at 55. It's definitely getting gas there when I hot wire the fuel pump, as the gauge was leaking a little when I first did it.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=123227&d=1582669177

Coyote PDB and 250 amp fuse. Getting 12V at the post on it.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=123228&d=1582669188

Starter hook up. Starter lead wire says B-330-14HD, from the coyote harness.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=123230&d=1582669205

[Railroad]

My set up is Gen 1, so different, but seems, I had two fuel pump harnesses. One was the Ron Francis harness and the other was Ford. I cut the RF fuel pump leads out of the system and used the Ford leads to the pump.
My point, any chance you have your pump hooked up on the RF pump leads?

[edwardb]

My set up is Gen 1, so different, but seems, I had two fuel pump harnesses. One was the Ron Francis harness and the other was Ford. I cut the RF fuel pump leads out of the system and used the Ford leads to the pump.
My point, any chance you have your pump hooked up on the RF pump leads?

My Coyote experience started with the Gen 2. So can't comment about how Gen 1's were wired. But starting with the Gen 2, and now the Gen 3, the Factory Five instructions show breaking into the RF panel with the Coyote fuel pump wire. The existing relay (for the inertia switch), wires back through the main and rear harnesses, and connector onto the actual fuel pump, are from the RF wiring harness. I've wired this way twice (Gen 2 and Gen 3) myself successfully, and helped several others do the same. There have been differences on exactly how to break into the RF panel. Mostly driven I think because there have been revisions to the panel by RF. But it works. The wiring shown by the OP in this case should work. The problem appears to be, if the reported testing is accurate, there is no voltage on the Coyote fuel pump wire. Even if that wire were home run to the fuel pump, it doesn't it appear it would work.

[delta0014]

The fuel pump is hooked up the to RF harness. The fuel pump works.
I'm printing the Ford control pack instructions as I'm typing (never got a printed copy, always just used an online version) and about to go through everything again. If I can't figure it out, I'm going to call Ford's techline.

[delta0014]

What could I test to confirm that the computer is getting power, is there anything that's constant 12V coming out of it?

[edwardb]

What could I test to confirm that the computer is getting power, is there anything that's constant 12V coming out of it?

(1) You could plug a scanner into the ODB2 port and turn on the ignition. The scanner should connect and give a status, any codes, etc. Would only do that if there's power in the system, (2) When you turn on the key, you should hear the throttle body initialize, and moving the accelerator pedal should move the throttle body. Would only do that if there's power in the system. Those are two easy ways I can think of. Suspect it wouldn't crank like you've described either, but don't know that for sure.

[delta0014]

Definitely hear the throttle body, or what I assume is the throttle body. I don’t hear anything pushing the pedal, but can’t see if it’s moving. Have to wait till the wife gets home to check that.

Plugged in a scanner. Says it can’t connect. But the orange light looks to work next to the OBD

[edwardb]

Definitely hear the throttle body, or what I assume is the throttle body. I don’t hear anything pushing the pedal, but can’t see if it’s moving. Have to wait till the wife gets home to check that.

Plugged in a scanner. Says it can’t connect. But the orange light looks to work next to the OBD

Sounds like the system is alive. The ODB port is always powered as long as the PDB has power. Your scanner should display something immediately when plugged in. Again, showing there's power. Moving the key to run with the scanner plugged in should connect. Sometimes you have hit the scan button to make it connect. Also, the MIL indicator next to the ODB2 port being lit is a sign things are alive. It glows dimly all the time, and is much brighter when there's an error code. Your scanner should be able to read and clear the codes. If you hear the throttle body initializing, another sign. It's pretty quiet moving the throttle plate. Seem to recall being able to hear it if nothing else is on. But I wouldn't take anything apart to check further. Your system has power.

[michael everson]

I am working on my first gen 3 engine today as well. I have the same symptoms as you. No fuel pump when I first turn on the key. Tried it many times. When I crank the engine, I get power to the pump. I would probe the fuel pump wire with a test light so you can actually see if it gets power. You might not hear the pump over the engine cranking. Mine eventually fired up but it took a long time cranking. Also I have no pedal response with the key on. I find this a bit odd ad the previous generations did. Havent had it running long enough to see if it works once its started.
Mike

[delta0014]

After chatting with the Ford Tech line this morning.
He had me test the volts on the ignition coil wire, which it was getting 12V.
Then had me test the fuel injector wires with a noid light (which I'd never heard of a noid light before). So I bought that and got nothing at the fuel injectors.
So he recommended sending in the PCM to him to check it.

[delta0014]

I did crank over the engine with a test light on the green fuel pump wire and nothing

[i.e.427]

We helped a customer with some wiring last year for his Coyote build. We had similar issues but his was a Gen 2. Turns out that there was never a base tune installed in the ECU. Once Ford Racing returned the ECU the car fired on the first hit of the key.

[wareaglescott]

did you talk to Ray by chance? He is sharp!

[edwardb]

did you talk to Ray by chance? He is sharp!

Ray was the go-to guy for electrical, that's for sure. Met him in person at the Ford Performance booth last year at Autorama. Nice guy. Don't know any details, but was told he's no longer there.

[Ain731]

Hello guys, I was hoping you could shed some light on an issue I am having with my gen 3 EFI pump. I hooked everything up following the FFR instructions and I am getting power to the engine but nothing to the fuel pump. I hear the throttle body actuate and the pedal moves it as well. The green wire is connected to the orange jumper per the instructions. I am getting 12v to the relay but nothing to the green wire post ignition. Another really odd thing is that when I crank the engine the fuel pump fuse (15 amp) blows.

The fuse going led me to believe I might have a faulty relay or inertia switch. I replaced the relay and nothing. Do you think the inertia switch would cause this to happen? If not, any ideas?

Also, I am getting 12v to EFI/coil. Any ideas on what I could be doing wrong.

Thank you for your help in advance.

Angel

[Ain731]

So, Scratch that last post. Through VOM testing found out the fuel pump feed was grounded. Followed the harness and it turns out the RF rear harness was inverted at the plug so the feed wire was connected to ground and vice versa. Human error on RFs part I'm guessing but Im glad I was able to find this issue. I will fix and try again tomorrow.
136312

[Ain731]

So, Scratch that last post. Through VOM testing found out the fuel pump feed was grounded. Followed the harness and it turns out the RF rear harness was inverted at the plug so the feed wire was connected to ground and vice versa. Human error on RFs part I'm guessing but Im glad I was able to find this issue. I will fix and try again tomorrow.
136312

[GWL]

So, Scratch that last post. Through VOM testing found out the fuel pump feed was grounded. Followed the harness and it turns out the RF rear harness was inverted at the plug so the feed wire was connected to ground and vice versa. Human error on RFs part I'm guessing but Im glad I was able to find this issue. I will fix and try again tomorrow.
136312

RF has put out an occasional blunder. The wires going to the rear lights, in my car, were reversed. I had to run my trunk and license plate light up the drivers side because it was tied to the drivers side rear lights and brake lights where the manual and all others I've seen run those lights to the passenger side.

I had the same problem you are having and it turned out to be a failed 'new' pump from Quantum Fuel Systems. They sent me a new one.

George

[facultyofmusic]

Hey OP (delta0014) what did you do to resolve the issue? I'm seeing the exact same thing you're seeing and I just can't see to figure out why.

[edwardb]

Hey OP (delta0014) what did you do to resolve the issue? I'm seeing the exact same thing you're seeing and I just can't see to figure out why.

This thread has tons of details of how to wire, what to check, etc. Have you gone through all of that? Usually it's something simple. Although not if the PCM doesn't have the tune installed from Ford, as one of the posts says. :eek:

[facultyofmusic]

This thread has tons of details of how to wire, what to check, etc. Have you gone through all of that? Usually it's something simple. Although not if the PCM doesn't have the tune installed from Ford, as one of the posts says. :eek:

Hi Paul, yes, I've been pouring over this thread as well as two other threads on this topic (Gen 3 coyote fuel pump not getting power (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?37964-Gen-3-coyote-fuel-pump-not-getting-power) and no start condition on coyote (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?28921-no-start-condition-on-coyote)) and verified I've done everything correctly and checked the grounds, fuel pump, and continuity between multiple points in the system from the ON switch to the pigtail. The behaviour I'm seeing suggests the ECU isn't doing what Ford claims it should do. The behaviour I'm seeing is identical what Mike Everson described in post #24 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?35103-EFI-Fuel-Pump-not-turning-on&p=400801&viewfull=1#post400801) on this thread:

Ignition LOW, start LOW: System is asleep. Nothing happens.
Ignition HIGH, start LOW: ECU wakes up (verified because the throttle body initializes and pushing the pedal opens the butterfly valve) but fuel pump stays OFF.
Ignition LOW, start HIGH: nothing happens. Same as LOW LOW above.
Ignition HIGH, start HIGH: Fuel pump and Starter motor signal turns ON for almost exactly 1 second before both turning off.

This behaviour is different from what ford described in document IS-1850-0625 (https://performanceparts.ford.com/download/instructionsheets/FORDINSTSHTM-6017-M50B.PDF) (Instruction manual for the g control pack). Point 6.2.1 on page 14 of 23 states that the fuel pump should turn on as soon as when Ignition become HIGH, and will turn off after a few seconds. In my case, it does not come on at all when ignition is HIGH. It will only come on when both ignition and start are both HIGH, in which case the pump and starter motor signal turn on for 1 second and then turn back off.

What I'm trying to figure out is why my ECU isn't doing what the manual says it should do.

[edwardb]

Hi Paul, yes, I've been pouring over this thread as well as two other threads on this topic (Gen 3 coyote fuel pump not getting power (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?37964-Gen-3-coyote-fuel-pump-not-getting-power) and no start condition on coyote (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?28921-no-start-condition-on-coyote)) and verified I've done everything correctly and checked the grounds, fuel pump, and continuity between multiple points in the system from the ON switch to the pigtail. The behaviour I'm seeing suggests the ECU isn't doing what Ford claims it should do. The behaviour I'm seeing is identical what Mike Everson described in post #24 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?35103-EFI-Fuel-Pump-not-turning-on&p=400801&viewfull=1#post400801) on this thread:

Ignition LOW, start LOW: System is asleep. Nothing happens.
Ignition HIGH, start LOW: ECU wakes up (verified because the throttle body initializes and pushing the pedal opens the butterfly valve) but fuel pump stays OFF.
Ignition LOW, start HIGH: nothing happens. Same as LOW LOW above.
Ignition HIGH, start HIGH: Fuel pump and Starter motor signal turns ON for almost exactly 1 second before both turning off.

This behaviour is different from what ford described in document IS-1850-0625 (https://performanceparts.ford.com/download/instructionsheets/FORDINSTSHTM-6017-M50B.PDF) (Instruction manual for the g control pack). Point 6.2.1 on page 14 of 23 states that the fuel pump should turn on as soon as when Ignition become HIGH, and will turn off after a few seconds. In my case, it does not come on at all when ignition is HIGH. It will only come on when both ignition and start are both HIGH, in which case the pump and starter motor signal turn on for 1 second and then turn back off.

What I'm trying to figure out is why my ECU isn't doing what the manual says it should do.

Making sure I understand the terminology you're using here. Ignition switch has four positions. Off, accessory (turned counter-clockwise, not part of this discussion), run (one click clockwise from Off), and start (spring loaded clockwise past run).

When you turn the key from off to run, the system wakes up, throttle body initializes, the MIL should light (dimly, unlike what the instructions say), and the fuel pump run very briefly. I don't know if it's two seconds or not. Seems quicker than that to me. Easy to miss. When moved to start, the starter should run as long as the key is held in that position and the fuel pump will start running when the engine starts. You can't hear the pump at that point. This is all normal operation and how mine have always worked. Gen 2 and Gen 3. If yours doesn't work exactly like this, then I'd suggest contacting Ford Performance because perhaps something is wrong with the ECU as others have experienced. They will walk you through all the usual troubleshooting and question your installation first.

If I understand correctly, your starter switches off after a couple seconds while holding the key in the run position? That's a new one on me and definitely something you should talk to Ford about. Some have suggested this is a function of the fuel pump not working so the ECU shuts things down without fuel pressure. I'm not aware of a sensor for that and not sure of that explanation. But certainly could be wrong (again...). Maybe it's something that's been added since I did mine.

One point though which I may have explained earlier in this thread, but will emphasize again. When you first move the key from off to run, you should hear the pump briefly as stated. But it only does it once. If you turn the key off and then immediately back to run again, the pump won't run again. The system has to be off for 10-15 seconds before it resets. Easy enough to see/hear because the MIL stays on until it resets plus you can hear relays in the PDB clicking off. Some haven't taken this into account and thought the fuel pump wasn't being energized properly.

[facultyofmusic]

Making sure I understand the terminology you're using here. Ignition switch has four positions. Off, accessory (turned counter-clockwise, not part of this discussion), run (one click clockwise from Off), and start (spring loaded clockwise past run).

Yes, we are on the same page here. Instead of an key cylinder I have an Ignition Toggle Switch and a Start Motor Button. These two are what I refer to as Ignition and Start. The ACC mode on a normal key cylinder is not considered here. I do have it on a separate toggle switch.


When you turn the key from off to run, the system wakes up, throttle body initializes, the MIL should light (dimly, unlike what the instructions say), and the fuel pump run very briefly. I don't know if it's two seconds or not. Seems quicker than that to me. Easy to miss. When moved to start, the starter should run as long as the key is held in that position and the fuel pump will start running when the engine starts. You can't hear the pump at that point. This is all normal operation and how mine have always worked. Gen 2 and Gen 3. If yours doesn't work exactly like this, then I'd suggest contacting Ford Performance because perhaps something is wrong with the ECU as others have experienced. They will walk you through all the usual troubleshooting and question your installation first.

If I understand correctly, your starter switches off after a couple seconds while holding the key in the run position? That's a new one on me and definitely something you should talk to Ford about. Some have suggested this is a function of the fuel pump not working so the ECU shuts things down without fuel pressure. I'm not aware of a sensor for that and not sure of that explanation. But certainly could be wrong (again...). Maybe it's something that's been added since I did mine.

When I do the equivalent of turning the key from off to run (toggling on the Ignition Toggle Switch) the system wakes up, throttle body initializes, MIL has 9V active (which I assume is the "dim" mode), but my fuel pump does not do anything. When I do the equivalent of moving to start (press Start Motor Button while Ignition Toggle Switch is ON), the starter motor signal gets 12V and fuel pump turns on. Both turns on for about 1 second before turning back off. I ordered a OBD2 code reader and it arrived today. I did a whole scan of the system and it threw the following codes:


P0113-00: Intake Air Temperature Sensor 1 Circuit High Bank 1. This one makes sense as the AAT plug is not used here. I assume it's safe to ignore.
P0124-00: Throttle/Pedal Position Sensor/Switch "A" Circuit Intermittent. This one doesn't make sense to me. When I press the pedal the throttle responds accordingly just like it should.
P06B8-00: Internal Control Module Non-Volatile Random Access Memory (NVRAM) Error. This is also worrying as I don't know what could have caused it.
P06E9-00: Engine Starter Performance. This code is expected as I disconnected the crank signal from the starter motor.
P1289-00: (CHT) sensor high input? No idea what this one is.


Now that I have the trouble codes I'll call ford tech to ask about them. Hopefully they can figure out what's wrong. What's interesting is that Mike Everson told me that while his ECU behaved very similarly, it started just fine and it seems to have "fixed itself". I'll probably proceed to first start as I originally plan to and if anything troublesome happens then I'll continue diagnosing. When I press start both fuel pump and crank signal turns on which means the engine has what it needs to start.



One point though which I may have explained earlier in this thread, but will emphasize again. When you first move the key from off to run, you should hear the pump briefly as stated. But it only does it once. If you turn the key off and then immediately back to run again, the pump won't run again. The system has to be off for 10-15 seconds before it resets. Easy enough to see/hear because the MIL stays on until it resets plus you can hear relays in the PDB clicking off. Some haven't taken this into account and thought the fuel pump wasn't being energized properly.

Yes, I can hear the relays reset after a while. I made sure to wait until all the relays "tick" before restarting the procedures.

Just want to thank you for your continuous help Paul. This issue is quite frustrating but I feel I'm not alone here.

EDIT: Also just found this post that seems to be talking about the same issue too and it started just fine after clearing the codes. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40924-Attempted-First-Start-Coyote-Not-Happy

[toadster]

curious to see a fix here, I'm at this spot - how can I check if there is a flash on the ECU?

looks like the wiring is correct like this
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=123203&d=1582638596

[Cincy123]

I had a similar experience with my first start. Turned key heard the throttle body wake up but no fuel pump (which I tested independently prior). Cranked and no start. Turned out to be a faulty connector from the RF harness to the fuel pump. Replaced the connector with a new and better plug and problem solved FWIW.

[460.465USMC]

Hi Todd. I just went through this issue as well [no 12V output from the PCM to the fuel pump] with my Gen 3 first start. My PCM is of the Oct. 2020 vintage, so not sure if yours will behave the same as mine.

As part of my First Start prep. I manually ran the fuel pump to fill the fuel lines, checked key electrical connections, etc. I expected the fuel pump to run for a short burst (1-2 seconds) with the key (or Digital Guard Dawg in my case) in the Run position, but it did not. However, the motor cranked over the first attempt without issue. After the motor cranked over for the first time, I could hear the fuel pump burst. And, it does so now every time the key (or push button) is moved to the Run position. So, don't be surprised if your PCM doesn't output the 12V to your RF fuel pump relay before first crank.

The challenge with my first start was getting the fuel system purged. It took many, many iterations of this: crank the motor over, motor sputters for 1-4 seconds; motor dies.

If you're interested you can hear/see this in the videos I posted. Just passing this along in case it's helpful in your situation.

[facultyofmusic]

TL;DR: No issue with first start. ECU started acting like the instructions said it should after first start. Exactly what Chris described in post #41.

Got my engine started yesterday. After I turned it off and tried starting it again it behaved the exact way Ford instructions said it should behave. Now when I turn on the ignition switch I hear the fuel pump pumping for about a second before shutting off. Everything is now consistent with the instructions.

What I'm seeing is consistent with what Mike Everson saw, where the ECU kinda just "fixed itself". My guess is that when turning on ignition switch I didn't have some stuff plugged properly so the ECU was in a mode that only pumps fuel when it detects crank motion. Now that everything is working as expected, the ECU has reverted back to its default behaviour. Sounds like it's just a Gen 3 ECU quirk. I'd be interested in what Ford techs say about this. Regardless, I'm glad things turned out fine.