Coyote engine tick?

[Fman]

I am researching engines to install in my Mk4, I am leaning towards a Gen3 Coyote. I have been reading numerous articles/videos on a problem with some type of engine "tick" coming from lower end of the engine in 2016-2019 Mustangs. Apparently Ford even has a TSB on this know issue? Has anyone here noticed this running a Coyote? I definitely do not want to spend 10k on an engine that will have poor longevity with a ticking problem Ford is aware of.

[toadster]

pretty common on the Coyote...

some guys use additive, like Rislone - or others, but there's no detrimental issues, I don't think the average sidepipe Coyote you'll notice much :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjE2O13mGIY

[edwardb]

I am researching engines to install in my Mk4, I am leaning towards a Gen3 Coyote. I have been reading numerous articles/videos on a problem with some type of engine "tick" coming from lower end of the engine in 2016-2019 Mustangs. Apparently Ford even has a TSB on this know issue? Has anyone here noticed this running a Coyote? I definitely do not want to spend 10k on an engine that will have poor longevity with a ticking problem Ford is aware of.

Gen 2 Coyote in a Roadster, driven three seasons, 6000+ miles, it's been flawless. I have a Gen 3 in a Coupe that's nearly done. Has a couple miles on it going around the neighborhood, and have run it extensively during the build. I've never noticed any strange sounds from either. What I can say with confidence is (1) Unless you're different than most owners, you won't put nearly the miles on one of these as your daily driver. And if you're doing street cruising and even occasional autocross or track, it's basically bulletproof. (2) If you do the Ford Performance crate motor (as opposed to a used donor) you have a 24 months warranty. Every engine has quirks and mfg's are always working issues, failure analysis, etc. Goes with the territory. That's the industry I came out of. I have no inside knowledge of what Ford may or may not be working with on this engine. But it has an excellent reputation on here and the Mustang world in general. I wouldn't let this concern stop you from going with a Coyote if that's what you want. I love mine.

[kobra01]

2003/2004 svt mustang cobra 4.6 mod motor had a similar tick sound. You can search tsb's from Ford. Problem was valve guides. Maybe same problem?

[Fman]

All the ticking videos I have seen (and there a LOT of them on youtube) nobody I have seen has had a catastrophic failure. Some dealers say its normal, others replace parts, some have replaced components on the crank. Some say it goes away when the engine warms up, and as toadster mentioned some say with oil additive it goes away. It is really concerning to me to see all these posts on this engine. I am definitely starting to look at other options, I really am looking for a bullet proof engine which makes me start to conside a simpler pushrod engine with fuel injection.

[edwardb]

You just joined the forum and have a low post count. I get it. We've been putting Coyotes in these builds for now almost 10 years, as I mentioned. Unless you're planning to track it or do some kind of power boost, they are bulletproof. That 100K mile maintenance cycle, other than oil changes, should tell you something. I haven't seen a single post on here where anyone has had a catastrophic failure with a Coyote or regrets choosing one. Give that some consideration too. Not just what you read on Mustang forums or see on YouTube. You'll also have a hard time finding another engine option with a similar warranty. As I said, haven't heard anything bad coming out of mine. Have you been up close to an old school pushrod motor with now pretty standard roller rockers and lifters? They sound like a Singer sewing machine. Not a bad thing, just how they are. By all means pick the engine you're comfortable with. But I personally wouldn't agree that a "simpler pushrod engine with fuel injection" will be any less immune from problems. Good luck whatever you do.

[Fman]

You just joined the forum and have a low post count. I get it. We've been putting Coyotes in these builds for now almost 10 years, as I mentioned. Unless you're planning to track it or do some kind of power boost, they are bulletproof. That 100K mile maintenance cycle, other than oil changes, should tell you something. I haven't seen a single post on here where anyone has had a catastrophic failure with a Coyote or regrets choosing one. Give that some consideration too. Not just what you read on Mustang forums or see on YouTube. You'll also have a hard time finding another engine option with a similar warranty. As I said, haven't heard anything bad coming out of mine. Have you been up close to an old school pushrod motor with now pretty standard roller rockers and lifters? They sound like a Singer sewing machine. Not a bad thing, just how they are. By all means pick the engine you're comfortable with. But I personally wouldn't agree that a "simpler pushrod engine with fuel injection" will be any less immune from problems. Good luck whatever you do.

Yep definitely a newbie on here just trying to look at all the options (pros and cons) and how I am going to spend my 10k. I do a lot of research and ask questions before I purchase anything. I appreciate your feedback and it is nice to hear you have had good experience with these Coyote engines, I am also hopeful to hear from some other Coyote engine owners on here as well what there experiences have been.

[Tbev]

Fman, I also have a low post count but have been trolling this forum for several years gathering valuable information for when I pull the trigger and buy my roadster. For what it is worth, I have noticed that Edwardb is one of the most respected members of this forum. His advice is very solid but of course you should listen to all opinions and make your own decision. Good luck with your build!

[edwardb]

Yep definitely a newbie on here just trying to look at all the options (pros and cons) and how I am going to spend my 10k. I do a lot of research and ask questions before I purchase anything. I appreciate your feedback and it is nice to hear you have had good experience with these Coyote engines, I am also hopeful to hear from some other Coyote engine owners on here as well what there experiences have been.

Final comment from me. Don't expect a thread titled "Coyote engine tick?" to get a lot of posts. If you're looking for a bunch of Coyote builders to weigh in with yes/no responses, doubt that will happen. Partly because as I said before, this engine just has gotten very little negative feedback on this or the other forum. Guys struggle sometimes with the installation because they aren't comfortable with the wiring (a common issue for all things electrical) but once installed and running, you may not hear from them again. And as is often the case with internet traffic, likely you'll get more negatives than positives because that's what tends to get reported. People are quick to report problems. Not so quick to report all good, even though it might be the overwhelming case. Your best bet is to start reading. There are dozens of build threads and posts regarding the Coyote as well as other engine choices. I'm a big research guy too, so don't think I made my choices lightly. You're not the first person to drop a big check for an engine, whatever the brand. Again, good luck. I'm out.

[rich grsc]

All the ticking videos I have seen (and there a LOT of them on youtube) nobody I have seen has had a catastrophic failure. Some dealers say its normal, others replace parts, some have replaced components on the crank. Some say it goes away when the engine warms up, and as toadster mentioned some say with oil additive it goes away. It is really concerning to me to see all these posts on this engine. I am definitely starting to look at other options, I really am looking for a bullet proof engine which makes me start to conside a simpler pushrod engine with fuel injection.

Just have to say, thats one of the silliest, backward statements I've read in a long time. Old school pushrod engines have much higher fault, fail rate than a new 5.0 Coyote engine.

[GoDadGo]

One Stupid Question From The Dark Dart Side Guy:

How Hard Have These "Ticking Engines" Been Driven?

My engine builder (Brian Ebert / Ebert's Engines / Slidell, La.) rebuilds all sorts of things, including Coyote Motors...All of the regular rebuild and custom hot rod style work seem to end up in his shop because of abuse, neglect, tons of miles or all of the above...Sure there are a few lemon engines that exist, but the percentage of failures (Warranty Work) is really unknown to folks like us.

While I'm not a fan of the Coyote, I think it is a good power plant that will give years and years of great service to Ford Fans all over the world.

Steve

[ckrueger]

Gen 2 here. No issues with mine. Started on the first crank and every time since then. No noise and runs great.

[Fman]

One Stupid Question From The Dark Dart Side Guy:

How Hard Have These "Ticking Engines" Been Driven?

My engine builder (Brian Ebert / Ebert's Engines / Slidell, La.) rebuilds all sorts of things, including Coyote Motors...All of the regular rebuild and custom hot rod style work seem to end up in his shop because of abuse, neglect, tons of miles or all of the above...Sure there are a few lemons engines that exist, but the percentage of failures (Warranty Work) is really unknown to folks like us.

While I'm not a fan of the Coyote, I think it is a good power plant that will give years and years of great service to Ford Fans all over the world.

Steve

Steve, what engine did you end up running in your ride?

[GoDadGo]

Steve, what engine did you end up running in your ride?

Here's my entire combination, but understand that I'm totally off the Factory Five Reservation:

Naked MK-4 Go Kart Walk Around:
https://youtu.be/PCngiKoopkA

1. 383 Small Block Dart 10-1 Somewhat Pump Gas Friendly Compression Ratio!
2. Eagle Internally Balanced Rotating Assembly With 6" H-Beam Rods With Floating Forged Flat Tops.
3. Dart Iron Eagle 215 CC Heads with 2.05 Intake & 1.60 Exhaust Valves.
4. Harland Sharp Roller Rockers & Other Go Fast Goodies.
5. Comp Cam Extreme Energy 288 Hydraulic Roller Tappet Cam
6. Edelbrock AVS 800 Feeding A Weiand 7530 Team G Single Plane Manifold.
7. Schoenfeld IMCA Modified Headers & They Really, Really Fit, But Stuff Had To Move A Bit!
8. New Old Stock Corvette ZF 6-Speed Transmission With Hydraulic Clutch. (.75 5th & .50 6th Gear Over Drives)
9. Standard Front End Set Up With Mustang Brakes & Forte’s .75” Sway Bar.
10. Standard 3 Link Moser Dana 44 (TSD 500) Rear With 3.73 Gears & Explorer Brakes.
11. The wheelbase has been shortened by .875" to better center the rear wheels within the wheel arches and improve pinion angle adjustment.

What it looked like before we blew it apart this weekend to start doing the body work:
https://youtu.be/CaRlqMmKIzk

[donshapansky]

I have had several Coyotes in F-150, Boss 302 and 33HR. I have modified them, tracked them (2,000 miles on track with a Boss 302). I have ran them to the rev limiter multiple times and have never encountered the "tick". I am a certified Technician on autos and motorcycles. I was a motorcycle dealer for over 20 years and was a Norton - Triumph, Suzuki, Yamaha and BMW dealer. I have been to Ford, Suzuki, Yamaha and BMW technical training sessions. Working on the Coyote reminds me of working on Japanese product. Much better design in terms of oil and coolant leaks, small bores are far superior in terms of heat dissipation, flame front collisions and cylinder bore distortion. My experience with small bore high rpm engines showed me the engine reliability is a lot better with OHC versus OHV designs. We campaigned Superbikes back in the 80's and we serviced bikes that were weekend warriors with 60,000 miles on the odometer that had never been torn down, yet the leak down rates on those cylinders were still within spec. That was an eye opener to our techs.

[scottamann]

Generation Two Coyote with 1100 miles so far. I cannot say enough about the power these 5 liter engines produce. Whenever I get brave enough to really spin it up hard; I expect it will break the rear tires loose in 3rd gear. First and second both are just a tap on the (electric) throttle away from breaking loose at will. Lots of fun and wicked sounding through the sidepipes with some RPMs.
If you are old school (like myself), it does take some getting used to the smooth, uneventful idle at red lights...

[Fman]

If I could "Like" all these posts I would :cool:

Just to clarify by no means I am trying to devalue the Coyote engine. For the record I have had great results running the Raptor in our boat, it has over 240 hours on it and it has been a beast of an engine with excellent power. I just "officially" placed my order today with a ship date of March 28. I am configuring everything for the Coyote and I will be getting my engine and trans from Mike Forte. I also found out you do get a 24 month warranty on the new engine which is kind of a nice insurance policy. I will keep following this thread and it is nice to see the positive reviews on the Coyote.

[GoDadGo]

Fman,

> Please keep in mind that you are building your dream car so pick a drive train that you are comfortable with.
> A short deck or tall deck small block Ford or FE big block are all great option as is the popular Coyote.
> Some of us go off the reservation and even stuff GM power in these cars and that's okay too.
> My recommendation plan your build and build your plan and it will be fabulous.

Steve

[Fman]

Fman,

> Please keep in mind that you are building your dream car so pick a drive train that you are comfortable with.
> A short deck or tall deck small block Ford or FE big block are all great option as is the popular Coyote.
> Some of us go off the reservation and even stuff GM power in these cars and that's okay too.
> My recommendation plan your build and build your plan and it will be fabulous.

Steve

After weighing all the options and talking to a couple different engine builders I am going to go with a 427, Holly sniper fuel injection, 460 HP. This engine just seems to fit the car better and is exactly what I want. Still going with the TK0600 trans and IRS.
122124

[GTBradley]

For me it was about power, reliability, weight and cost. In that order. The Gen 2 Coyote has a proven track record, as I think the Gen 1 came out in 2011? Anyway, Ford nailed it on all those topics: 500hp is easy to get to with a little tuning and 700 with a blower; reliability is proven through all those cars and trucks it's been put in by Ford, it only weighs 445lbs and the cost of a crate kit with engine/transmission/clutch was around $12.5K. And yes, if you listen closely you can hear a tick, but my Highlander does too and that does not mean there is something wrong. I'll go out on the IMHO limb and say the only drawback to putting a Coyote in a Cobra replica is that it looks modern in an otherwise 60's era engine bay. I LUUUUV that engine!

[GoDadGo]

After weighing all the options and talking to a couple different engine builders I am going to go with a 427, Holly sniper fuel injection, 460 HP. This engine just seems to fit the car better and is exactly what I want. Still going with the TK0600 trans and IRS.
122124

Make sure if you go with a big inch SBF that you get a rear sump road race style oil pan.
Even a peppy 302 needs a good oil pan design to keep the sump buried under acceleration.
Also, with that much torque you will need 100 T.W. tires (Soft Compound) to plant the power.
My 383 has knocks the tires loose in the first three gears since I'm running 300 Tread Ware Nitto 555's.
I haven't tried to spin the tires in 4th gear, but I suspect it is extremely likely since I'm running a 3.73 rear end.

https://youtu.be/PCngiKoopkA
https://youtu.be/wOID7yvBRPU
https://youtu.be/CaRlqMmKIzk

Good Luck From The Dark Dart Side & Happy Wrenching!

Steve

[edwardb]

For me it was about power, reliability, weight and cost. In that order. The Gen 2 Coyote has a proven track record, as I think the Gen 1 came out in 2011? Anyway, Ford nailed it on all those topics: 500hp is easy to get to with a little tuning and 700 with a blower; reliability is proven through all those cars and trucks it's been put in by Ford, it only weighs 445lbs and the cost of a crate kit with engine/transmission/clutch was around $12.5K. And yes, if you listen closely you can hear a tick, but my Highlander does too and that does not mean there is something wrong. I'll go out on the IMHO limb and say the only drawback to putting a Coyote in a Cobra replica is that it looks modern in an otherwise 60's era engine bay. I LUUUUV that engine!

Good post. That about nails it. My 20th Anniversary Roadster was ordered planning a 427 small block build. After working up the cost, including EFI and a DART block, it was significantly more than the Coyote with similar power and with zero expectations it would be more reliable or longer lasting than the Coyote. There used to be some challenges with a Coyote installation, but that's all behind us now. Three years later and I too am a huge convert. It's a pleasure to drive. Mild or wild, which it will easily do. It's been in a bunch of car shows. A handful of people have grumbled about a non-vintage engine in a 60's replica. Pretty much the same people who say it isn't real. :mad: But the overwhelming response is positive. Modern power and reliability in a classic tribute. I'm expecting (hoping...) for a similar response when I start showing my new Coupe build with the Gen 3 Coyote. Look at all the Coyote swaps being done in Fox body Mustangs, etc. Same thing. But I get some people want to stick closer to the originals, and that's fine too. Like we say around here, build it your way. :o

[GoDadGo]

Like we say around here, build it your way. :o

Amen & I Couldn't Agree More!

[Jeff Kleiner]

Coyote vs big Windsor is truly apples and oranges. I've had enough of both through the shop here to be comfortable saying that if you expect an injected 427W to be as plug & play initially, as "hands off" over the long haul and offer the same driveability as the Coyote you are mistaken. Both offer similar power but it is delivered quite differently. Not saying there is anything wrong with either option but understand that they are not at all alike. Weigh out all factors and where your priorities lie when making your decision.

https://www.stratoscale.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Cloud-101-Cloud-Services-Apples-to-Oranges.jpg

Good luck!

Jeff

[toadster]

from my buddies who have the Coyote's it's a plug-n-play setup currently (their words, I have yet to prove this :)

now if we can develop a better looking Gen3 engine cover (I know Paul is the mod master already) but a plug-n-play version would be awesome - anyone here do injection molding? :)
I know the Whipple or Edelbrock superchargers make the best looking covers, but they're pricey! LOL

[Fman]

There were multiple reasons I am going with the 427 (small block). When I first was opting for a Coyote I figured a built 427 would be much more expensive but after pricing them out the 427 is actually not much more. I just cant build this type of car with a piece of plastic looking at me every time I open the hood. In my humble opinion the 427 just seems to fit the car better and is timeless. As many people mention everyone has different ideas of what there intent is and I plan on keeping this car for years.

Here is the TSB Bulletin from Ford regarding the Coyote engine tick, Ford is calling it a "knock at idle" in the TSB. After reading the TSB they do not seem to be concerned about it and it has no impact on engine performance.

[GTBradley]

Now that's what you call "the BIG picture"

Coyote vs big Windsor is truly apples and oranges. I've had enough of both through the shop here to be comfortable saying that if you expect an injected 427W to be as plug & play initially, as "hands off" over the long haul and offer the same driveability as the Coyote you are mistaken. Both offer similar power but it is delivered quite differently. Not saying there is anything wrong with either option but understand that they are not at all alike. Weigh out all factors and where your priorities lie when making your decision.

https://www.stratoscale.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Cloud-101-Cloud-Services-Apples-to-Oranges.jpg

Good luck!

Jeff

[rich grsc]

I like peaches more that oranges, how does that effect the comparison?

[SJDave]

There were multiple reasons I am going with the 427 (small block). When I first was opting for a Coyote I figured a built 427 would be much more expensive but after pricing them out the 427 is actually not much more. I just cant build this type of car with a piece of plastic looking at me every time I open the hood. In my humble opinion the 427 just seems to fit the car better and is timeless. As many people mention everyone has different ideas of what there intent is and I plan on keeping this car for years.

Here is the TSB Bulletin from Ford regarding the Coyote engine tick, Ford is calling it a "knock at idle" in the TSB. After reading the TSB they do not seem to be concerned about it and it has no impact on engine performance.

I love the look of the small block 427 with stack injection on them, I bought this Mark 3.1 85% complete , was intimidated by the Borla 8-Stack system at first, but after 6 months of reading a couple textbooks by Greg Banish, the mystery was gone and tuning became straightforward and enjoyable. At local car shows it gets alot of interest for sure if you're into that. Smooth power, dyno'd at 615 HP, 650 ft lbs of torque. Came with 3:73 rear end, switched to 3:07 to allow me to use first gear without helplessly smoking the tires and heading towards the nearest curb ...everytime! Toyo 888Rs helped a lot putting the power down on the street.