View Full Version : TKO Mid shifter install
tbl100
01-29-2020, 04:56 PM
A couple of questions:
I recently purchased the TKO Mid shifter from Mike Forte. I have sent him an email with the same questions but wanted to see how others have tackled this issue.
1. As usual there is an interference with the shifter body and the Mk4 transmission tunnel bracing. What I’ve seen is that others have cut the bracing to make the shifter fit. Do you see any downside of trimming the flange on the mid shifter to eliminate the interference? The flange on the shifter is .295” deep and I only need to remove about 0.200”. Photo attached.
121624
2. Also, I’ve watched Forte's mid shifter install video and it appears that the shaft used by the rear position shifter is left in the tail section. Is this correct? If so, how is it secured so that it will not interfere with the mid shifter?
Thank you in advance for any assistance.
Tim
My sense is that if you ask 5 people this question, you will get 5 different answers. Here's mine. I know of folks who have cut the frame and re-welded it at a different angle; others who have cut it out and left it at that. After considering several options, I cut the frame piece out and built a backing piece that is bolted into place. Here are two photos that show it:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78224&d=1514327786
The above photo shows what I cut out, how I reinforced the tube, and the backup brace.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78225&d=1514327810
Here it is with the mid-shift in place. You can also see that the traditional, "rear" shift location has a plate over it. That came with the transmission in my case. (Also from Mike Forte)
I suspect that the position of the shifter relative to the frame braces depends on your choice of engine. It doesn't appear that you have as much interference as I did. I believe that unless you plan on racing, you're not going to detect any noticeable loss of rigidity if you cut that brace out. I'm sure others will weigh in with differing opinions. That's what makes this forum great!
tbl100
01-29-2020, 05:36 PM
My sense is that if you ask 5 people this question, you will get 5 different answers. Here's mine. I know of folks who have cut the frame and re-welded it at a different angle; others who have cut it out and left it at that. After considering several options, I cut the frame piece out and built a backing piece that is bolted into place. Here are two photos that show it:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78224&d=1514327786
The above photo shows what I cut out, how I reinforced the tube, and the backup brace.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78225&d=1514327810
Here it is with the mid-shift in place. You can also see that the traditional, "rear" shift location has a plate over it. That came with the transmission in my case. (Also from Mike Forte)
I suspect that the position of the shifter relative to the frame braces depends on your choice of engine. It doesn't appear that you have as much interference as I did. I believe that unless you plan on racing, you're not going to detect any noticeable loss of rigidity if you cut that brace out. I'm sure others will weigh in with differing opinions. That's what makes this forum great!
Thank you for the photos. Your way is what I was initially thinking but then started over analyzing as usual. Your build is a lot like mine. We seem to be using the same major components. I think the interference is about the same on both cars. Thanks again.
BTW, do you know if the shaft to the rear shifter position was left in your transmission or was it removed?
Gadsden
01-29-2020, 06:08 PM
I just installed the kit over the Holidays and i followed the Tremec Midshift installation instructions. This included separating the 2 halves of the trans and removing the rear rail and socket. It was not a big deal, and the only issue i had was not getting it in neutral correctly before driving out the roll pin.
I know most youtube videos and other instructions said to just leave it, but i did not want it floating around in there and while the trans was on my workbench is was a easy task to split and remove.
tbl100
01-29-2020, 06:45 PM
I just installed the kit over the Holidays and i followed the Tremec Midshift installation instructions. This included separating the 2 halves of the trans and removing the rear rail and socket. It was not a big deal, and the only issue i had was not getting it in neutral correctly before driving out the roll pin.
I know most youtube videos and other instructions said to just leave it, but i did not want it floating around in there and while the trans was on my workbench is was a easy task to split and remove.
Thanks for the reply. I'd like to remove it as well. Agree, don't want it just floating around in there. I guess I'll be taking my transmission apart. Need to pull the engine and transmission anyway. When reassembling the two halves of the transmission what do you use to seal it? I notice a red sticky material there right now. Not sure why its still in a semi liquid state. Is it some sort of gasket material that doesn't solidify?
Gadsden
01-29-2020, 10:55 PM
Yes, use a anaerobic sealant. The instructions call for it. The soft stuff you see is excess that did not cure because of the atmosphere. You also need rtv for the cover plate.
Good luck. Take your time and have fun with it!
Thank you for the photos. Your way is what I was initially thinking but then started over analyzing as usual. Your build is a lot like mine. We seem to be using the same major components. I think the interference is about the same on both cars. Thanks again.
BTW, do you know if the shaft to the rear shifter position was left in your transmission or was it removed?
Great question, but I have no idea. The plate was in position when I opened the shipping box and I never removed it. Mike Forte did cut off the "bump" on the bottom of the transmission, so he may have removed the shaft, but I can't say for sure. I have not done anything to the transmission other than install it.
ckrueger
01-30-2020, 10:21 AM
I did it a little different. I just cut the right side loose and took a section out to allow me to bend/push the bar toward the front of the car enough to clear and re-welded to the longitudinal piece. Worked fine.
tbl100
01-30-2020, 07:03 PM
I did it a little different. I just cut the right side loose and took a section out to allow me to bend/push the bar toward the front of the car enough to clear and re-welded to the longitudinal piece. Worked fine.
Yes I can see that working. Unfortunately I don't know how to weld. although I'd like to learn. More cool tools and stuff to buy. lol.
tbl100
01-30-2020, 07:08 PM
Well here is my solution. I decided to cut away just enough of the bar to accommodate the shifter and the rubber boot that goes over it with a little extra for movement. I'll add some reinforcement to the bar but not exactly sure how I'll do that yet. To all, thank you for all the input. Love and appreciate this forum.
121693
Brian76
01-31-2020, 07:30 AM
A couple of questions:
2. Also, I’ve watched Forte's mid shifter install video and it appears that the shaft used by the rear position shifter is left in the tail section. Is this correct? If so, how is it secured so that it will not interfere with the mid shifter?
Thank you in advance for any assistance.
Tim
Tim,
Could you share the link to the Forte install video? Have not been able to find it online. I purchased at TKO600 and Mid-shift kit from Mike and was told it was ready to install. This is the first I've heard about removing the rear rail. Did you receive a reply from Forte yet?
initiator
01-31-2020, 04:36 PM
Well here is my solution. I decided to cut away just enough of the bar to accommodate the shifter and the rubber boot that goes over it with a little extra for movement. I'll add some reinforcement to the bar but not exactly sure how I'll do that yet. To all, thank you for all the input. Love and appreciate this forum.
121693
This was my solution, too.
Aircontroller
01-31-2020, 06:19 PM
Man....why can’t FFR move that tube an inch away so no has to cut anything?
tbl100
02-01-2020, 02:11 AM
Tim,
Could you share the link to the Forte install video? Have not been able to find it online. I purchased at TKO600 and Mid-shift kit from Mike and was told it was ready to install. This is the first I've heard about removing the rear rail. Did you receive a reply from Forte yet?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdWQ4DFTXCo
There is no audio in this video. I did not receive a response from Mike but that's ok. If you purchased the transmission and mid shifter from Mike at the same time he would have installed the mid shifter for you at no charge.
I just completed my shifter install. I separated the two halves of the transmission and took out the shaft. It wasn't that hard. Just hope it still works. lol
tbl100
02-01-2020, 02:13 AM
Man....why can’t FFR move that tube an inch away so no has to cut anything?
Haha. I agree but i'm sure there are a lot of combinations of engines and transmissions out there. Can't please all the people all the time. But this one does seem to be very common. It's worth it for them to consider.
rich grsc
02-01-2020, 10:35 AM
Man....why can’t FFR move that tube an inch away so no has to cut anything?
Haha. I agree but i'm sure there are a lot of combinations of engines and transmissions out there. Can't please all the people all the time. But this one does seem to be very common. It's worth it for them to consider.
Well it's not reasonable to build frames to fit every possible combination out there. It's your project, you build it to your specs so you need to make changes if necessary. If FFR tried to make every change people wanted, the frame would be a disaster, or just come in a box, so you could weld it yourself.
Brian76
02-01-2020, 10:49 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdWQ4DFTXCo
There is no audio in this video. I did not receive a response from Mike but that's ok. If you purchased the transmission and mid shifter from Mike at the same time he would have installed the mid shifter for you at no charge.
I just completed my shifter install. I separated the two halves of the transmission and took out the shaft. It wasn't that hard. Just hope it still works. lol
Thanks for the link Tim. Yes I ordered both from Forte and was told it was ready to go. As you mentioned, the video does not show any parts removed from the rear shifter location. Do you have any pictures of the parts? I might take off my rear cover plate and compare.
121830 From Fortes video
karlos
02-01-2020, 11:11 AM
Here's a before and after showing which parts are removed. As an alternative to splitting the case halves to get the rear shift selector rail out, there is an available cover that includes a nub that fits into one of the sockets on the rail to prevent movement. Cover is installed nub down; the nub locks the rail in place. Not sure if the cover is available as a separate part (mine came with the midshift kit) but might be worth looking into.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=121833&d=1580572887
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=121832&d=1580572868
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=121831&d=1580572849
Brian76
02-01-2020, 03:27 PM
Here's a before and after showing which parts are removed. As an alternative to splitting the case halves to get the rear shift selector rail out, there is an available cover that includes a nub that fits into one of the sockets on the rail to prevent movement. Cover is installed nub down; the nub locks the rail in place. Not sure if the cover is available as a separate part (mine came with the midshift kit) but might be worth looking into.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=121833&d=1580572887
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=121832&d=1580572868
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=121831&d=1580572849
The nub plate is a great idea. Thanks Karl
tbl100
02-01-2020, 03:32 PM
Thanks for the link Tim. Yes I ordered both from Forte and was told it was ready to go. As you mentioned, the video does not show any parts removed from the rear shifter location. Do you have any pictures of the parts? I might take off my rear cover plate and compare.
121830 From Fortes video
Mine was just like the photos Karlos posted.
tbl100
02-01-2020, 03:36 PM
Thanks for the link Tim. Yes I ordered both from Forte and was told it was ready to go. As you mentioned, the video does not show any parts removed from the rear shifter location. Do you have any pictures of the parts? I might take off my rear cover plate and compare.
121830 From Fortes video
Here is what the insides looks like.
121838121839
Not sure why my photos always import rotated.