Getting ready to pull trigger on build kit - got questions - any help appreciated

[Fman]

Here is what I am planning on ordering in near future:

Mk4
Coyote engine w/TK0600 trans
IRS suspension/rear end
Leather seats
Power steering kit
17" wheels
Going with base disc brake kit (No wildwood)
Wiper kit (to pass CA inspection for SBC-100, prob will never use)
Heater
Adding heated seats
Passenger side rollbar
Floor mats
Sun visor
Wind wings

Anything else someone would recommend?

Few questions I have...

Power brakes? What are guys doing to add power brakes? is it necessary or is the wildwood pedal box adequate?
Roll bars? Someone mentioned some guys cut them down 1"? different vendor that sells a shorter roll bar?
For guys in CA, do you need wipers to pass the inspection? I would really not like to buy them but also dont want to fail because they were never installed.
Where should I buy my engine/trans? Is it best to go with Factory Five?

Thanks for any feedback...

[frd2]

Very similar set up here. Mine was a base kit to start out with so didn't have to worry about getting rid of the wilwood parts - but using the mustang pedal box is very easy and makes adding power brakes simple. Since you have power steering you could do hydroboost, or could use the whitby vacuum booster kit.

Wilwood box can be sold to someone who bought a base kit but wants that box.

[GoDadGo]

Welcome Aboard!

It sounds like you've got a really nice plan in place...With that said you may want to check out Edwardb's last MK-4 build for some really good reference material before you place your order.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18591-EdwardB%92s-Mk4-8674-20th-Anniversary-Build

As for me I shortened the roll bars and am happy with where they are...I even shortened the wheelbase since I'm running a 3-Link solid axle but that is another story because my list of modifications are longer than most...Please know that I am running the stock Mustang front brakes with Explorer single pistons out back (Dana 44 Rear) and the set up works fine for spirited driving and cruising which is what my car was intended for.

https://youtu.be/CaRlqMmKIzk

Again, Welcome Aboard!

[KDubU]

Looks good overall. I would go with Wilwoods before power breaks but that is my personal preference. Also you’ll need to do something with that cover on Coyote 3, very Aliens looking.

[David Hodgkins]

I put 2 builds through SPCNS (aka SB100) without wipers.

I added them to my personal ride after...

I'd add the body cutouts. Makes a nice base to have the base holes before enlarging as (if) needed.

Personally, I'd go with the 18" wheels if you aren't doing 15"

:)

[Gilmore]

I passed California inspection without wipers and they were never mentioned.

[videodude]

Power brakes are easy IF you use the Mustang pedal box. Wilwood does NOT support power brakes with their setup, however either Mike Forte or Mike Everson has a kit to modify the Wilwood pedals for power. You also would need to run the Wilwood rotors and calipers with their setup, and there is no turning back. With the stock Mustang Cobra brakes, you can always upgrade from manual to power, or to Wilwoods. A stock vacuum booster works fine, lots of info on this forum about how to mount the booster and master for this type of setup. Whitby makes a frame adapter kit for the "kick out" needed to clear the booster. They also make a complete kit for the brakes. Power steering is also easy using either the Mustang rack, or the one FFR provides.

I would agree with my buddy Wookie (Dave H.) about the 18" wheels; there are more tire choices available than with 17's.

Video

[edwardb]

Power brakes is widely discussed. You'll get some that say they're necessary. Others not. IMO it's about expectations. If you want brakes that feel like your daily driver, then you'll probably want power. If you're willing to have a somewhat heavier pedal feel, the manual setup is much simpler, cheaper, and can be made to stop just fine. A complete kit comes with the Wilwood (check the spelling BTW. Not Wildwood.) pedal box and must be modded to have power assist and you lose the front/back bias adjustment it's designed for. A Mustang pedal box doesn't have that particular problem, can have power assist added pretty easily, and puts the master cylinder outside the footbox instead of inside like the Wilwood. I've done all three: Mustang pedal box with power, Wilwood pedal box with power, and Wilwood pedal box left stock and not power. Of the two, I personally prefer the Wilwood and I'm fine without power. There are options for more aggressive pads that can really increased the stopping if that's what you need. Much easier than adding boost.

For the roll bar, yes the existing bar (or bars in your case with the passenger side added) can be lowered but does change the geometry and how it mounts. Breeze offers an alternative (https://www.breezeautomotive.com/shop/roll-bar-parts-kit-1-3-4-carbon-steel/) which is very nice. I used it on a build. Probably the best looking setup out there. But it's more work, and unless you're really short it's a little low and may not offer quite as much protection. If that matters or you're concerned about sanctioned events where it probably wouldn't pass.

[bil1024]

Fortes can help you with your engine combo

[Jim Stabe]

There are options for more aggressive pads that can really increased the stopping if that's what you need. Much easier than adding boost.

.

Which pad have you found work the best? What downsides do they have if any? (dust noise, pedal effort)

[edwardb]

Which pad have you found work the best? What downsides do they have if any? (dust noise, pedal effort)

Sorry, that statement was made based on multiple discussions on both forums. For my street driving, I've not done anything exotic so can't give any personal recommendations or observations. My current Roadster and Coupe have the stock Wilwood pads that came with the brake set and they've been fine for me.

[Fman]

Appreciate all the great information, definitely will be doing the cut outs.

Few other questions...

Where is a good vendor to source 18" wheels and tires? and for street is there a certain tire that performs best? I am building this car for a weekend drive, nothing crazy.

Please look at the attached pic...

Is the gray/red car on top running 17 or 18" wheels?

The two lower cars appear to have different height roll cages? or maybe I am missing something? The cars look to be identical but the cage looks higher on one than the other.
121631

[Papa]

Welcome! A couple of comments for you. I originally bought the 17" wheels and then ended up getting the 18" Halibrand replicas from FFR. I'm running Michelin Pilot Sport tires and I really like the setup. I didn't see anyone mention the Breeze roll bars. If I were doing another build, I'd go with them. He doesn't offer the stainless bars anymore, but the steel ones can be chromed or powder coated to your preference and they look fantastic compared to the FFR bars. They do require welding, but I would find a mobile welder to tack them and then remove them and finish up the full welds.

[edwardb]

I didn't see anyone mention the Breeze roll bars...

I did in post #8. To the OP, first picture is my #7750 Mk4 build with 17-inch wheels with Nitto tires and Breeze roll bar. Second picture is my #8674 Mk4 20th Anniversary build with 18-inch wheels with BF Goodrich Rival S tires and dual stock FFR roll bars. As you can see, there's not a lot of difference in the look of the wheels. There are several other tire brand choices for both. The main limiter will be finding the ones you want in the 315 rear width. BTW, these two cars are almost exactly the same color. The pictures show how different they can look with different outdoor lighting (sun vs. shade) and also different cameras. FWIW.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Completed/.highres/IMG_2996_zpsd5598f13.jpg (https://app.photobucket.com/u/edwardb123/p/ba5facac-518d-4fe2-b398-bf0f35fcc164)

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Graduation/.highres/IMG_4515_zps23gxxyb8.jpg (https://app.photobucket.com/u/edwardb123/p/2573c740-1e08-4903-b8e9-68ecaf2bb2f4)


...The two lower cars appear to have different height roll cages? or maybe I am missing something? The cars look to be identical but the cage looks higher on one than the other.
121631

FFR only has a single height roll bar option. Whatever difference you're seeing there is perspective, photo editing, whatever.

[Fman]

Beautiful looking cars!

I notice you have windshield wipers on both cars, is this for aesthetics or to pass inspection? I do like the look of the Breeze roll bar, however I would not trust my welding skills on a vital part like a roll cage. I will probably have to end up going with the FF roll bar.

As far as exhausts, when running black side pipes are guys ceramic coating them or just painting with a high temp paint?

[BB767]

Beautiful looking cars!

I notice you have windshield wipers on both cars, is this for aesthetics or to pass inspection? I do like the look of the Breeze roll bar, however I would not trust my welding skills on a vital part like a roll cage. I will probably have to end up going with the FF roll bar.

As far as exhausts, when running black side pipes are guys ceramic coating them or just painting with a high temp paint?

I was able to shorten my FFR roll bar about an inch without affecting the mounting adversely. Still slide in easily and bolted up fine. That small inch made a big difference in appearance. May be an option for you.

[brewha]

Before you cut your roll bars make sure they are high enough with a helmet if you ever want to attend a track day.

[edwardb]

Beautiful looking cars!

I notice you have windshield wipers on both cars, is this for aesthetics or to pass inspection? I do like the look of the Breeze roll bar, however I would not trust my welding skills on a vital part like a roll cage. I will probably have to end up going with the FF roll bar.

As far as exhausts, when running black side pipes are guys ceramic coating them or just painting with a high temp paint?

Thanks. Wipers are required in Michigan as part of the safety inspection to get your title. Not everyone does them and are able to talk their way out of them. Or remove them after the inspection. Or put some type of one-time manual wiper there for the inspection and then remove. Personally, I prefer to have them and don't think it's a big deal. They've been used a few times (not on purpose...) and are only marginally useful. But they're there.

I don't weld either. My Breeze roll bar was done by a local welding shop I go to. Don't feel like you have to do it yourself if that's the way you want to go.

Sorry, haven't done black side pipes. Those are both Gas-N Performance polished stainless pipes.

[frd2]

Just saw a post on Facebook where someone is selling the tangent roll bar kits again. Factory five builder was the group I think.

[toadster]

welcome to the fray! I've ordered a car, it shows up next week - so I've recently gone through a LOT of these thoughts myself... most of it is on my website (in my signature), but also TONS of info here to read through...

I'm going to go with Mike Forte for my Gen3 Coyote/TKO600/IRS setup,and will opt for the hydraulic clutch as well, the Factory Five setup is good as well - either/or will be fine; I figured FFR got my kit $$ so I'll share with Mike on the drivetrain :)

I'm doing the Wilwood brakes, and 18" wheels and other after-market options https://cobradreams.com/parts-n-pieces/

[Fman]

welcome to the fray! I've ordered a car, it shows up next week - so I've recently gone through a LOT of these thoughts myself... most of it is on my website (in my signature), but also TONS of info here to read through...

I'm going to go with Mike Forte for my Gen3 Coyote/TKO600/IRS setup,and will opt for the hydraulic clutch as well, the Factory Five setup is good as well - either/or will be fine; I figured FFR got my kit $$ so I'll share with Mike on the drivetrain :)

I'm doing the Wilwood brakes, and 18" wheels and other after-market options https://cobradreams.com/parts-n-pieces/

ah, finally someone local to me! I am out in Penryn (loomis area). Great job on your website, I already got a lot of info from it. I am planning ordering my kit within next couple weeks, I dont think I will see it until end of April/May sometime. I will be anxious to watch you start your build.

I have a few questions...

Are you adding windshield wipers? (SB-100 inspection)
Black or chrome exhaust? (if black how are you coating it)
Are you ordering your engine/trans now or waiting until you get a rolling chassis? (if later how long does it take Mike to ship you one)

[bobm488]

My build is very similar to yours. Engine and trans are from Mike Forte. Mine was delivered in August and should be in paint with Da-Bat in a month or so. I hope to have it licensed by summer.

In SoCal

[toadster]

ah, finally someone local to me! I am out in Penryn (loomis area). Great job on your website, I already got a lot of info from it. I am planning ordering my kit within next couple weeks, I dont think I will see it until end of April/May sometime. I will be anxious to watch you start your build.

I have a few questions...

Are you adding windshield wipers? (SB-100 inspection)
Black or chrome exhaust? (if black how are you coating it)
Are you ordering your engine/trans now or waiting until you get a rolling chassis? (if later how long does it take Mike to ship you one)

yup! there are TONS of guys around here!

I did order wipers, I think it completes the look more than anything...
chrome exhaust - there are lots here who have ceramic coated black though, keep searching!
I'm waiting on the engine/trans, but I already have the IRS center so it can be installed - everyone told me to wait since it will just take up garage space :) and my wife still wants to park in the garage!

Folsom Cars & Coffee has a bunch of Cobras every week (pending no rain) - Palladio starting ~7:00-9:30am, stop by!

[Avalanche325]

My thoughts...

I don't understand a street car without wipers. Most race cars have wipers. You will get caught in the rain at some point, even if you are in SoCal. I tried Rain-X, and ended up turning my wipers on.

I would not build one of these without Wilwoods. I have never seen a car that stops too fast.

If you go with short roll bars, make sure that they work for your height taking helmets into consideration. Even if you don't plan on going on the track, you very well might. They are real rollbars, not just chrome trim.

No need for cutouts. They are marked on the car anyway. You are building a car, certainly you can cut a few holes in fiberglass. OK, the first one IS scary.

[Jeff Kleiner]

...No need for cutouts. They are marked on the car anyway. You are building a car, certainly you can cut a few holes in fiberglass.

Well, I've filled a lot of holes on cars built by guys who thought that way and tried to save a hundred bucks. I won't charge you to finesse the FFR cut holes but that can change if I gotta' spend a couple of hours and half a can of HSRF to fill ones that got cheesed up. Just sayin'...

Jeff

[Railroad]

I would pay for the cut outs on the body. It seemed to save a lot of time, when I got ready to set the body on.
I had to open the cuts in a few areas, but nothing like using a template and tape measure on each cut out. JMO

[cnutting]

I opted for no wipers, but may add them this year for early morning condensation. For the black pipes, I used VHT flat black spray can. Plenty of other options available, but this was quick, easy and relatively cheap. It's held up well. Running the stock brakes with Hawk pads, stops just fine.

[Avalanche325]

Well, I've filled a lot of holes on cars built by guys who thought that way and tried to save a hundred bucks. I won't charge you to finesse the FFR cut holes but that can change if I gotta' spend a couple of hours and half a can of HSRF to fill ones that got cheesed up. Just sayin'...

Jeff

You are building a car, certainly you can cut a few holes in fiberglass...

....or then again.......maybe you can't.

[Jeff Kleiner]

You are building a car, certainly you can cut a few holes in fiberglass...

....or then again.......maybe you can't.

You should hear some of the stories when Miller, Ken and I get together and start comparing notes. When the owners confess they always end the conversation with a hopeful "You'll be able to fix that won't you?" Just had a long text message stream with Batty earlier today discussing why HSRF should be on the controlled substance list and require a license to purchase :(

Jeff

Jeff

[rich grsc]

Lots of long on opinion, short on experience.

[Fman]

I officially pulled the trigger this morning and ordered my Mk4, my completion date is March 28. I am very excited to start building this car.

Here is what my final build is looking like.

Coyote w/TK0600 trans
IRS suspension/rear end
Stainless header with bare exhaust (going Satin black)
Leather seats
Power steering kit
17" wheels
Base disc brake kit (No wilwood)
Wiper kit (to pass CA inspection for SBC-100, prob will never use)
Heater
Adding heated seats
Passenger side rollbar
Floor mats
Sun visor
Wind wings
GPS vintage gauge set
Bumper kit
Cut outs

Hoping to see the car mid April, so now I just get to hurry up and wait :-)

One question on wheels, I would really like to have the Halibrand wheels in black. Any recommendations of a good vendor that sells them? I currently have the factory five wheels on the order with gray inserts right now but they do not offer black.

[kgkeys]

Hoping to see the car mid April, so now I just get to hurry up and wait :-)


Get yourself a plastic model for a warm-up. :)

Kyle
121934

[Jeff Kleiner]

...One question on wheels, I would really like to have the Halibrand wheels in black. Any recommendations of a good vendor that sells them? I currently have the factory five wheels on the order with gray inserts right now but they do not offer black.

Just get them powder coated.

Congrats on the order!

Jeff

[michael everson]

I do power brakes on all my builds. Even with Wilwood big brakes. Every customer loves them.
Power brakes using a Mustang pedal box is simple and cheap and you can recover most if not all of your cost by selling the Wilwood box.
Another advantage to the mustang box is you have no brake fluid inside your car. Also makes running the brakes lines much easier.

Besides the mustang pedal box (87-2004) here is a list of what you need with Oreilly Auto parts part numbers

87-93 Mustang brake booster 54-73207
94-95 Mustang Cobra Master cylinder 10-2854
Adapter BLF33B
Adapter BLF31B
Brake booster spacer www.replicaparts.com
You will need a remote reservoir, use one from the 99 Mercury Villager
You don't need the frame section from Whitbys. You can just buy a length of 3/4 square tube similar to what you cut out of the frame. Just make it a couple inches longer and bolt it beside the section you cut out.
Mike

[Fman]

I do power brakes on all my builds. Even with Wilwood big brakes. Every customer loves them.
Power brakes using a Mustang pedal box is simple and cheap and you can recover most if not all of your cost by selling the Wilwood box.
Another advantage to the mustang box is you have no brake fluid inside your car. Also makes running the brakes lines much easier.

Besides the mustang pedal box (87-2004) here is a list of what you need with Oreilly Auto parts part numbers

87-93 Mustang brake booster 54-73207
94-95 Mustang Cobra Master cylinder 10-2854
Adapter BLF33B
Adapter BLF31B
Brake booster spacer www.replicaparts.com
You will need a remote reservoir, use one from the 99 Mercury Villager
You don't need the frame section from Whitbys. You can just buy a length of 3/4 square tube similar to what you cut out of the frame. Just make it a couple inches longer and bolt it beside the section you cut out.
Mike

I will definitely be looking into this more, are there any write ups or you tube videos on this? What is approx cost for all parts?

[Jeff Kleiner]

...What is approx cost for all parts?

Mike gave you the part numbers so between his website (pedal box & spacer) and O'Reilly's you should be able to do the math.

The installation has been documented by many (myself included) both here and on the other forum.

Jeff

[toadster]

I do power brakes on all my builds. Even with Wilwood big brakes. Every customer loves them.
Power brakes using a Mustang pedal box is simple and cheap and you can recover most if not all of your cost by selling the Wilwood box.
Another advantage to the mustang box is you have no brake fluid inside your car. Also makes running the brakes lines much easier.

Besides the mustang pedal box (87-2004) here is a list of what you need with Oreilly Auto parts part numbers

87-93 Mustang brake booster (https://amzn.to/2tusta7) 54-73207 $103
94-95 Mustang Cobra Master cylinder with reservoir (https://amzn.to/36Z9Mci) $61
Adapter BLF33B (https://amzn.to/37ZyWZs) $7
Adapter BLF31B (https://amzn.to/37VVSZO) $9
Brake booster spacer (http://www.replicaparts.com/BRAKE%20BOOSTER%20SPACER%20PAGE.htm) $30
You don't need the frame section from Whitbys. You can just buy a length of 3/4 square tube similar to what you cut out of the frame. Just make it a couple inches longer and bolt it beside the section you cut out.
Mike

added some links and prices for you @Fman

~$210 which is less than 1/2 the whitby's price... https://www.whitbymotorcars.com/product/power-brake-kit-complete/

[edwardb]

I will definitely be looking into this more, are there any write ups or you tube videos on this? What is approx cost for all parts?

You'll get lots of opinions on this forum. Power brakes is one of them. There aren't many absolutes. I have my own opinion about power brakes (I've had and extensively driven both) but that's not the point of my post. And I don't want to get in the way of posts from Mike or Jeff. They have more combined experience than I'll ever have. But this is an example of how changing one thing affects others down the line. The Mustang pedal box is definitely easier to add power assist. No question there at all. Been there done that. MC's in the footbox versus outside, along with the line routing, is a difference but done properly either are fine IMO. What the Wilwood pedal box does offer, that the Mustang pedal box doesn't, is front/back bias adjust, pedal height is adjustable, pedal width and location are adjustable, hydraulic clutch is a bolt on (that's what the pedal box is designed for), and since you're going with a Coyote, the required Coyote clutch switch bracketry Factory Five supplies is designed for the Wilwood pedal box. Full disclosure, every one of these differences can be addressed. None are insurmountable at all or even that difficult, especially for Mike with his extensive build experience and fabrication ability. However, that may not be for you so just be informed. No matter what the suggestion or change, just make sure you have all the plusses and minuses before deciding, and weigh what's important to you and fits your build plan and capabilities. That's the intent of my post.

[nuhale]

I'm in the throws of my MKIV build and a couple adds...

-Edwardb & Shark92651 forums are excellent and similar to your setup.
-You will change your build plan by reading this forum. Folks really like to help you spend money here (its a good thing).
-Breeze auto is great too. Mark has a ton of "easy button" solutions. I used his forward battery box, power steering components, radiator mounting and easy seat mounting.
-FORTE!! Mike is a pleasure to work with and can help with engine and other parts you will find yourself adding. I went with gen 2 coyote with TKO600 as gen 3 still early and is larger (its pretty tight already).
- I went with Forte's hydroboost power brake setup. Also installed a power steering rack. I'm not go-carting yet so have no report on performance. It's been pretty easy setup.
-Nicopp! I used nicopp brake & fuel lines. Excellent experience when forming these. I bought a straightener and used the eastwood flare tool.
- Gas'n Pipes & headers. Georgie is great to work with and the product looks exceptional. Not on car yet so no report on performance but all reviews on this site are excellent


Good luck! It's one hell of a journey.

[Avalanche325]

You should hear some of the stories when Miller, Ken and I get together and start comparing notes. When the owners confess they always end the conversation with a hopeful "You'll be able to fix that won't you?" Just had a long text message stream with Batty earlier today discussing why HSRF should be on the controlled substance list and require a license to purchase :(

Jeff

Jeff

Oh, I'll bet you guys have seen some baffling and hysterical things. I have worked with a few people that if they picked up a tool, something was going to get broken.

I usually, and often incorrectly, make the assumption that people can figure out which end of a screwdriver goes on the screw. But we all know what assumptions do.....

[Fman]

I am going to be ordering with a blank dash layout, I am not a fan of how FF lays out there gauges. Is there a template available that has the traditional gauge layout?

[Papa]

Here's a template for the competition dash I'd saved off a while back. I also have it in PDF if you PM me an e-mail address I'll send it to you.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=122160&d=1581124339

Dave

Update: Figured out that I could attach a PDF to this post.

[edwardb]

I am going to be ordering with a blank dash layout, I am not a fan of how FF lays out there gauges. Is there a template available that has the traditional gauge layout?

Not sure what you mean by traditional. The Factory Five layout is a version of the street layout. The often used alternative, which I happen to prefer and Papa posted, is known as the competition layout. Buying a blank dash and cutting the gauges is easy enough to do. Both are patterned after original layouts.

[Fman]

Not sure what you mean by traditional. The Factory Five layout is a version of the street layout. The often used alternative, which I happen to prefer and Papa posted, is known as the competition layout. Buying a blank dash and cutting the gauges is easy enough to do. Both are patterned after original layouts.

I was referring to the competition layout, definitely going with a blank dash plate. @Papa I will send you my email, thank you.

[Fman]

Few more question...

I currently have selected the 17" wheel and tire package FF offers. Are the Mickey Thompson tires they offer good enough to get me started?

Exhausts, is the FF stainless header and side exhaust a decent setup? I will be running a fuel injected 427. My current order is spec'd with stainless headers into raw unfinished exhaust, I plan on going satin black on the exhaust.

I am installing a heater, is it possible to run a glove box with the heater? I have heard it is tight but can be done.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Few more question...

I currently have selected the 17" wheel and tire package FF offers. Are the Mickey Thompson tires they offer good enough to get me started?

Exhausts, is the FF stainless header and side exhaust a decent setup? I will be running a fuel injected 427. My current order is spec'd with stainless headers into raw unfinished exhaust, I plan on going satin black on the exhaust.

I am installing a heater, is it possible to run a glove box with the heater? I have heard it is tight but can be done.

RE: Tires; define "good enough". The M/Ts are not an all out performance tire suited for serious autocross, track or drag strip use but are an OK street cruiser tire somewhat comparable to the Nitto 555-G2 which can handle some wet weather and cool temperatures. A 427 Windsor will vaporize them from a standstill.

The FFR stainless headers are a good choice; they offer a ball & socket flange for adjustability and 4 into 1 merge for the oxygen sensor you'll need for EFI. The raw steel sidepipes can be finished with high temp paint or ceramic coated black.

Although I haven't done it myself I know others have incorporated a heater with a shallow glovebox. Alex used to produce an ABS one that was only about an inch deep, just enough for paperwork (and well, gloves :)) but last I heard he was no longer making them so you're probably going to need to fab your own.

Jeff

[GoDadGo]

Tires; define "good enough". The M/Ts are not an all out performance tire suited for serious autocross, track or drag strip use but are an OK street cruiser tire somewhat comparable to the Nitto 555-G2 which can handle some wet weather and cool temperatures. A 427 Windsor will vaporize them from a standstill.

Jeff

Sir Jeffski Is Spot On As Usual!

I thought a Healthy 383 Mighty Mouse would have been the perfect power-plant and nicely sized between the 302 and 427 Ford mills, but it is overkill.
My friend Heath installed a Peppy 351 Windsor in his MK-4 and it is far more controllable & enjoyable to drive then My Dark Side Ride.
Power To Weight Ratio is what you need to think about before you plop down big bucks on a 427.
I can Shred My Nitto 555's in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, but haven't tried it in 4th, 5th or 6th.

My Advice Is To Take Any Advice Jeff Gives You & Sir Edwardb Too!

[CraigS]

I don't know which model MT tires FFR offers but I have these
https://www.mickeythompsontires.com/street-tires/street-comp
They are a competent street tire. Yep they will go up in smoke in 1st or 2nd but so will nearly any tire that isn't a drag radial.

[Fman]

I will not be tracking, racing or drag stripping this car by any means. It will be a weekend cruiser so I am hopeful the MT tires should be sufficient enough to get me around town for awhile. The FF wheel and tire package is actually a very affordable package after looking around at other vendors. As far as the 427 goes, Mike Forte will be building my engine. We have some time to fine tune what stroke/HP we end up going with. The 427 at 460 HP is actually identical in HP to a Coyote gen 3, but does have more torque. I feel very comfortable with Mike and his recommendations, I just know I cant build this car with a plastic covered intake manifold stamped with 5.0 on it. Just not what I want to end up with and I am playing the long game that the 427 is timeless and will always hold a good value. Call me old school but I cant think of a better sound than an American pushrod V8.:cool: it will be definitely be fuel injected, I am out on carburetors.

I don't want to start an engine debate here everyone builds there car to what they want to achieve, which is the cool part of this entire process.

[Fman]

I am starting to think about my order on this car laying in bed at night, I am not sure if that is healthy but it is where I am at right now... maybe it is the beginning of my mid life crisis ;) I have a few more weeks to make any changes to my order before the chassis is finalized and parts changed. And thanks again to everyone for answering all these questions...

So I managed to come up with a few more...

Stewart transportation - is the dolly that the chassis and body sits on roll sufficiently? What is the approx weight of the chassis and body on the dolly? I have a 300' asphalt driveway down to my shop, it is on a downward slope. I am not sure if two guys can slow it down, so I may need to come up with a plan to contain the speed and arrange for more fellas there for delivery day. As long as the dolly has decent casters should not be a problem. The only video I saw of a delivery was someone in a track home, he wheeled it 20 feet in the guys garage... this is not the case for me.

For CA guys, I have talked to a couple owners that passed SBC-100 without windshield wipers. If I choose not to install them and for some reason I am the 1/100 they decide to call me on is there a temp setup that can be bolted up to just pass the inspection? I do not ever plan on driving this car in bad weather.

Front sway bar - for driving around town not on the track is this a worthwhile addition? I am running IRS.

[Papa]

Stewart's dollies likely vary by truck, but when my kit was delivered I provided my own chassis dolly and the driver was able to lower the car right into it. The dollies I've seen in videos of deliveries by Stewart have hard rubber tires that can roll easily over non-paved surfaces as well as paved. Like you, my driveway is paved and slopes down from the road to my shop. With my chassis dolly, I had no problem getting the chassis down the slope and into the shop. The chassis and body weigh in at something like 500-600 lbs.

[Jeff Kleiner]

300 feet with a gentle slope is doable. My old place had ~200 with a steep downhill slope and the driver and I managed it on 3 different occasions without dumping the whole works in the creek! I recently had a Coupe delivered to my friend's house and his 600' driveway with a steep uphill nearly killed us :p

With the factory spring setup these cars push (understeer); if you add a front bar without also adding a rear or otherwise raising the rear roll stiffness it will exacerbate that condition. For a street car either do both or none.

Jeff

[CraigS]

If you have any kind of riding lawn mower tie a rope between it and the FFR. You can drive and let the mower hold it from flying and the Stewart guy can keep it centered on the drive.

[Fman]

Exhaust side pipes - the Factory Five side pipes do not seem to have a lot of fans. I just spoke with Bob at BOIG about his quiet pipes. Is anyone running these? from what I have read on the forum they seem to be one of the better options to go with?

[Jeff Kleiner]

I've had cars through the shop with pretty much every sidepipe available. From loudest to quietest (in general---there are always exceptions) are the carbon steel FFR pipes, stainless steel FFR pipes, Gas N stainless pipes and Boig quiet pipes. Be aware that the engine and header configuration play a big role; for example a big engine doesn't necessarily mean louder than a smaller one and a Coyote will always be quieter. J-pipes make all of them louder (and frankly sound worse) particularly when used with Coyote shorties. The quality of the welds and finish of both Gas N and Boig are superior to FFR. It all kind of comes down what you want to end up with and whether your priority is sound, appearance or a combination of both...and how much you're willing to $pend.

Jeff

[edwardb]

Jeff pretty much covered it. The standard Factory Five steel pipes are loud to start with, and get louder pretty quickly. Seems they blow out fast. Plus in my experience they had kind of a metallic ring that really hurt my ears. Earplugs helped, but still noticeable and I just couldn't take it. The Factory Five stainless pipes seem better. I received a set with my 20th Anniversary Roadster. But the Gas-N's are better quality and quieter. So I always recommend the Gas-N pipes over the upgraded Factory Five SS pipes. I don't have any personal experience with the Boig pipes. But have been around them. They are definitely the quietest. But only come as plain steel, so need some kind of finish. Ceramic, black paint, whatever. They're also a bit of a non-traditional shape, if that matters. What I often recommend to people is go ahead and order your kit with the standard steel pipes. You won't get a big credit for deleting them. Doesn't cost anything for shipping because they're delivered with your kit. Try them. Use them for your first start, go-kart, etc. Then see if you like them. If not, usually pretty easy to sell for about the same amount as you would have received for a credit. Or finish them up the way you like and use them. Other pipes, e.g. Gas-N, can always be added later.

[Avalanche325]

I can Shred My Nitto 555's in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, but haven't tried it in 4th, 5th or 6th.


Which is why the OP, and apparently GoDadGo, need NT05s.
GoDadGo - If you are lighting them up and then shifting to 2nd and 3rd with them boiling, even slicks will do that. If you are hooked up, hit it in 3rd and they break loose, you need stickier tires. I know my NT05s are done when I break them loose in 3rd on the straights on a track day. Not as fun as it sounds.

[Jeff Kleiner]

NT-05 won’t do it either. I’ve run Nitto NT-01 and Toto R888-R R Comps and they still don’t hook the little ol’ run of the mill Windsor in my heap ;)

Jeff

[GoDadGo]

Which is why the OP, and apparently GoDadGo, need NT05s.
GoDadGo - If you are lighting them up and then shifting to 2nd and 3rd with them boiling, even slicks will do that. If you are hooked up, hit it in 3rd and they break loose, you need stickier tires. I know my NT05s are done when I break them loose in 3rd on the straights on a track day. Not as fun as it sounds.

Avalanche,

John Force burnouts isn't my issue.

I need stickier tires because the car will power into wheel spin just rolling quickly into the throttle while the car is hooked up...1st gear starts slipping 2,500, while 2nd gear holds the pavement until about 3,250 with 3rd losing traction at or around 4,000 RPM. My rev limiter is currently set at 4,500 so 4th doesn't seem to be a problem.

I'm considering a 2nd set of rims with some NT01 Nitto's after we finish the bodywork and paint.

Steve

[Papa]

Avalanche,

John Force burnouts isn't my issue.

I need stickier tires because the car will power into wheel spin just rolling quickly into the throttle while the car is hooked up...1st gear starts slipping 2,500, while 2nd gear holds the pavement until about 3,250 with 3rd losing traction at or around 4,000 RPM. My rev limiter is currently set at 4,500 so 4th doesn't seem to be a problem.

I'm considering a 2nd set of rims with some NT01 Nitto's after we finish the bodywork and paint.

Steve

That's just because you're below sea level down there in the swamp. Bring that car up here at 6,000+ feet and it should be more manageable. :p

Dave

[CraigS]

Back to the dash a sec. Be sure that whatever drawing you use is for a MkIV. The hole for the steering shaft was moved towards the door on MkIVs so if you do all your drilling based on an old diagram....

[Jeff Kleiner]

Back to the dash a sec. Be sure that whatever drawing you use is for a MkIV. The hole for the steering shaft was moved towards the door on MkIVs so if you do all your drilling based on an old diagram....

Actually Mk3 and Mk4 are the same. The pre-Mk3 dash is different.

Jeff

[Fman]

Hey guys one more question, engine builders. I have been in contact with a couple but wanted to see who people have used and been happy with. This is a big purchase and I want to feel comfortable with whoever I pick will back up there build. I am looking for a engine/trans combo pack (SBF with TK0600). If you have a builder who you have been satisfied with please post them up. Thanks!

[phileas_fogg]

I purchased my Ford 302 (and T5, and Thunderbird IRS, and hydraulic clutch, and throttle linkage, and...you get the picture) from Forte's Parts Connection. He's a forum vendor, extremely knowledgeable about these specific cars, and provides superb customer service. His pricing can't be beat, though shipping to CA may change that for you (he's located in MA). If you run into problems, he'll answer his phone every time & give you his cell phone so you can reach him after hours. I highly recommend him.


John

[KDubU]

I would suggest Mike Forte or Gordon Levy. Gordon is in Arizona so a lot closer to you so that may save some shopping costs.

[ptbashor]

Here's a template for the competition dash I'd saved off a while back. I also have it in PDF if you PM me an e-mail address I'll send it to you.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=122160&d=1581124339

Dave

Update: Figured out that I could attach a PDF to this post.

Thanks for this. I'm currently planning my order and, while I'm not planning a competition dash, I was wondering about the dimensions that people are using for the glove box. This will make it a lot easier to fabricate.

I'll be a few months behind you guys getting started as I'm currently stationed overseas and won't get back until late July. My wife has said that if I'm going to do this then it better become my DD so, being down in Houston, I'm planning on a soft top and trying to figure out how to add A/C and heat. Does anyone know if it's possible to cram a vintage air gen II compac behind the dash with a firewall forward mod? If not I can go with an under-the-dash dedicated a/c and a smaller heater behind the dash, not an ideal option but workable.

My decisions are constantly changing but right now I am planning:

Mk4 complete kit
blue print fuel injected 347 with tremec 600
IRS
leather seats
power steering
wipers
passenger rollbar
upgraded wilwood brakes
soft top
drop trunk
firewall forward
a/c and heat (somehow)
17" American racing salt flat wheels (I really like these and a bit different but I need to figure out the backspacing.)

With every build thread that I read I see something new that I want to add. I don't know if it's good or bad that I have a few months to figure this out.

[frd2]

If you want ac then check out north racecars (vendor). It is bulky and likely interferes with a glovebox though. About your only option.

[CraigS]

Actually Mk3 and Mk4 are the same. The pre-Mk3 dash is different.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff, as I typed I was thinking maybe the change had happened before MkIV but wasn't sure exactly when.

[CraigS]

I wonder if you could do a AC only unit and then seat heaters. If the AC were smaller than AC/heat that would help fitting it al together. See the 'cool only' listings here
https://www.vintageair.com/builder-series/
One other thought, although the wiper motor is usually in that area of the firewall, there is some spare room on top of the passenger's foot box so a system could be part in the interior and part in the engine compartment.

[ptbashor]

I wonder if you could do a AC only unit and then seat heaters. If the AC were smaller than AC/heat that would help fitting it al together. See the 'cool only' listings here
https://www.vintageair.com/builder-series/
One other thought, although the wiper motor is usually in that area of the firewall, there is some spare room on top of the passenger's foot box so a system could be part in the interior and part in the engine compartment.

Yes, I saw the AC only under dash units and I think one would fit nicely between the dash supports. I could then run a heater only unit as others have done. I though about the seat heater option but Houston is very humid and fogging can be a problem. I have seen that most people's builds have a little room on the passenger side and was thinking about the possibility of doing a firewall modification on that side. I think that I will just have to wait until I get to that stage and measure carefully and see what options that I have. For the glovebox I was thinking about only doing about an inch in depth or so for insurance and so forth which I have seen a few people do with a heater.

[edwardb]

Yes, I saw the AC only under dash units and I think one would fit nicely between the dash supports. I could then run a heater only unit as others have done. I though about the seat heater option but Houston is very humid and fogging can be a problem. I have seen that most people's builds have a little room on the passenger side and was thinking about the possibility of doing a firewall modification on that side. I think that I will just have to wait until I get to that stage and measure carefully and see what options that I have. For the glovebox I was thinking about only doing about an inch in depth or so for insurance and so forth which I have seen a few people do with a heater.

Seat heaters are a no-brainer IMO. They're not particularly expensive, take up basically zero space, are usually an easy installation, and do a surprisingly good job of warming you up even when it's not that cold out. Whether they are enough to not install a heater is a personal choice. But I've had them on all my builds and have always been a hit. Especially with my better half.

[frd2]

IIRC - most of the under dash units (like you would install in an old mustang) are much deeper than the space we have available.

[FFinisher]

Yes, I saw the AC only under dash units and I think one would fit nicely between the dash supports. I could then run a heater only unit as others have done. I though about the seat heater option but Houston is very humid and fogging can be a problem. I have seen that most people's builds have a little room on the passenger side and was thinking about the possibility of doing a firewall modification on that side. I think that I will just have to wait until I get to that stage and measure carefully and see what options that I have. For the glovebox I was thinking about only doing about an inch in depth or so for insurance and so forth which I have seen a few people do with a heater.

I am installing a/c and Heat in a car(roadster) here and it will have a glove box as well. With a small black ford it is doable. I have the Factory Five Coupe A/C unit mounted on top of the passenger footbox, through the firewall.

I can't do pics or I would add them. But it is doable.

[Papa]

Seat heaters are a no-brainer IMO. They're not particularly expensive, take up basically zero space, are usually an easy installation, and do a surprisingly good job of warming you up even when it's not that cold out. Whether they are enough to not install a heater is a personal choice. But I've had them on all my builds and have always been a hit. Especially with my better half.

I can attest to the benefits of seat heaters. When I had to take my car to get the inspection for my VIN, it had snowed three days before and the morning of my appointment it was 20 degrees. I made the drive with no heater, no side windows installed on my top, with just seat heaters, gloves, a stocking cap, and a leather jacket.

[ptbashor]

I am installing a/c and Heat in a car(roadster) here and it will have a glove box as well. With a small black ford it is doable. I have the Factory Five Coupe A/C unit mounted on top of the passenger footbox, through the firewall.

I can't do pics or I would add them. But it is doable.

Good to know, let me know ow it goes.

[Fman]

Figured with some time ahead of me before the car arrives I would starting to acquire tools and fasteners, could someone please take a peek at these links to make sure I am ordering the correct stuff.

I have never worked with nutserts before so I have to ask some questions. I would prefer to use 10-32 threads but for some reason every Nutsert tool I can find on Amazon has 10-24 coarse thread pitch available. Will 10-24 be adequate for fastening inner fenders and anything else I want to be able to remove?

How many 1/8" Cleco fasteners should I purchase?

10-24 Nutserts:
https://www.amazon.com/Threaded-Nutsert-Rivnuts-Stainless-10-24UNC/dp/B07K2YPRSV/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=10-24+nutsert&qid=1581791185&sr=8-3

Nutsert tool:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Z62KQK6/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1KZE1JXSUOBJN&psc=1

Pneumatic rivot gun:
https://www.harborfreight.com/14-in-air-hydraulic-riveter-62685.html

1/8" Cleco fasteners:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008PEKOX6/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?smid=A3I835QP9MZHR5&psc=1

Cleco fastener tool:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DHRK3GN/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A36SG7FKI35XTU&psc=1

1/8" drill bits:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075V41M1T/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1YJSETGOAVB4I&psc=1

[edwardb]

You're right some nutsert tools don't include the 10-32 mandrel. Instead the more common 10-24. But most offer the 10-32 mandrel (and other less common sizes) separately. Like the Astro tool, recommended by several on here, and this separate mandrel. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01F9A4PJM/?coliid=I3U2U4YVZZ5EJG&colid=EJS1FH6IFSSI&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it. You might want to expand your horizons beyond only Amazon though. I use McMaster-Carr a lot, as do some others. Their stuff isn't always the cheapest. But excellent website with detailed specs on all their parts, high quality, and typically ship the same day. I get my orders the next day from their distribution center in Ohio. Not free shipping like Prime. But they charge actual and typically is fair IMO. I use this simple wrench driven tool and have set hundreds with it: https://www.mcmaster.com/96349a203. These are my nutserts of choice: https://www.mcmaster.com/98560a561.

You'll get lots of opinions on how many clecos. Has been debated humorously and otherwise quite a bit. Some say 10. Some will say 100. That pack of 50 is probably a reasonable number. I have a more. :rolleyes: Doesn't hurt to have a few 3/16-inch sized ones as well. That size is used occasionally.

You'll want to use a #30 drill bit (0.1285") for the 1/8" rivets. Makes the hole just slightly oversize and way easier to assemble. They will get dull and/or break occasionally. Get decent ones. Maybe 5-10 for the build and if you're careful you'll have some left over. Same for 3/16" rivets. Use a #10 (0.1935"). Have a couple on hand.

[Papa]

This set includes a #10-32 nose piece: https://www.amazon.com/Astro-Pneumatic-Tool-1450-Extra-Long/dp/B01JBNNJ3Q/ref=sr_1_5?crid=38K57UOXY4IPU&keywords=astro+pneumatic+tool+mandrel+and+nose+pie ce&qid=1581796935&s=automotive&sprefix=Astro+nose%2Cautomotive%2C176&sr=1-5

On the drill bits, 1/8" will work, but generally you want the gauge size (#30) for the 1/8" rivets.

Edit: Paul beat me to it -- all good advice!

[ArcticAZ]

I'd recommend using zinc plated nutserts over stainless. Stainless nutserts with stainless screws is very likely to result in seized fasteners, spinning the nutsert, and then trying to drill it out in the most awkward places.

[Fman]

Appreciate the links, thank you... that definitely helps clarify some items. What length 10-32's do you recommend? 1/2"?

[Papa]

Appreciate the links, thank you... that definitely helps clarify some items. What length 10-32's do you recommend? 1/2"?

I bought boxes of 1/2", 3/4", and 1" in both button head and socket head. It's nice to have a variety of hardware on hand. I did a large order with McMaster-Carr and bought a couple of divided organizers to keep things organized. I used one organizer for rivets and Clecos, and a couple for screws, washers, and nuts in a couple of sizes.

Stanley 014725 25-Removable... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00005QWYF?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

[edwardb]

Appreciate the links, thank you... that definitely helps clarify some items. What length 10-32's do you recommend? 1/2"?

I've used sizes from 1/4" up to 5/8". Probably 3/8" are the most common for me. For almost all my nutserts I use flanged socket head style screws. It's great you're thinking through this stuff and getting prepared for your build. But don't get too lost in the weeds before you kit even arrives. You'll have plenty of time to size things up and decide how you prefer to do things.

One other comment about nutserts. I saw one build where the builder replaced nearly every pop rivet with a nutsert. That was over the top and IMO completely unnecessary. A huge number of the rivet locations will never come apart in the life of the car. At the other end of the spectrum you'll find builders that don't bother with them and are OK with drilling out rivets if necessary. You won't find them referenced in the build manual. That too works. It's your choice. My personal preference is if something is going to be taken on and off several times during the build (like the splash guards) or is something that would be removed for repair or maintenance, I use nutserts. But this is one of many build decisions you'll have along the way. And one that has lots of opinions. :p

[nuhale]

I've been pretty successful using 1/4"-20 stainless riv-nuts throughout my build on electrical, fuel an brake lines. Using all stainless with rubber clamps in place of zinc stuff FFR sends. I'm replacing everything with stainless hardware as I don't want to deal with any corrosion. The tool is critical. I was using the bold and nut method which I gave up on for a cheap-o grip style rivnut tool and after a couple broken mandrels I went with a more robust tool. Wish I would have just done that to start with.

Regarding the comp dash. I too was planning to get a blank from FFR and cut holes myself. I found a member on this site that offers a pre-fab version and is a heavier gauge than the FFR one. It's also set up for Alex's glove box which was perfect for me (I have the shallow box as I have heater).

PM me and I'll send you their contact info. Wasn't to bad price wise... think it is worth it having it pre-cut with nice clean edges and small pilot holes for switches, lights etc.

[Mark Eaton]

FMAN,

You are getting really good advice here. From a newby experience I will tell you that I don't like the #10-32 nutserts, they are really easy to cross thread and to install at an angle for a beginner. I have found that 1/4"-20 are much easier to work with. For the smaller screws, however, 5M seem easier to me. Those " small" wrench driven nutsert appliers Edwardb talks about in Post #77 are nice for getting in to tight spaces.

For out in the open this Nutsert tool is awesome, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B073VK3B7S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It does not, however, come with a #10-32 mandrel but does have 5m.

HTH

[Jeff Kleiner]

I'm probably going to step on a few toes here but... please don't use rivnuts on aluminum to aluminum connections. When cars come to me for body & paint I have to take them apart and I can't begin to tell you how many rivnuts I've had to cut off with a Dremel and wheel to remove the splash panels :mad: The insert spins either because it didn't pull tight or because the screw was cross threaded upon installation or because the stainless screw galled in the steel insert. If you think you're making it easier to disassemble later (and really, think about it, how often do the splash panels get removed once the car is completed?) I'll advise you to think again and just use rivets.

That is all,
Jeff

[edwardb]

I'm probably going to step on a few toes here but... please don't use rivnuts on aluminum to aluminum connections. When cars come to me for body & paint I have to take them apart and I can't begin to tell you how many rivnuts I've had to cut off with a Dremel and wheel to remove the splash panels :mad: The insert spins either because it didn't pull tight or because the screw was cross threaded upon installation or because the stainless screw galled in the steel insert. If you think you're making it easier to disassemble later (and really, think about it, how often do the splash panels get removed once the car is completed?) I'll advise you to think again and just use rivets.

That is all,
Jeff

Like I said, lots of opinions. And in this case with real world experience. I haven't had those issues, and will continue to use them. But I understand and appreciate you see lots of examples. Agree the splash panels can be cleco'd during the build, and not riveted until final assembly. Even then not super hard to drill out if necessary, like I also mentioned. But, since you don't recommend rivnuts (nutserts, whatever...) what do you recommend for the several examples of panels that really do need to be removable? Surely not drilling out each time. I'm thinking of the access panel over the MC's on the driver side footbox, panels over the fuel pump and sender that many install, battery cover for buried trunk mounted batteries, etc.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Paul,
I have 100% confidence that among the many other things you do exceptionally well you know how to properly install a rivnut in sheet metal however not everyone does (see, there I am on somebody's toes again). Regarding panels over such things as master cylinders, fuel senders and pumps, etc. I kind of feel the same way about them as I do the splash panels---once the car is built how often do you need to go in there? Put rivets in 'em and move on. It's not like a panel has to be removed to check the oil. As for burying a battery under the trunk floor...I simply wouldn't!

Jeff

[Mark Eaton]

Jeff,

I empathize with your frustration. If its any consolation I use antisieze on every screw that goes into a rivnut regardless of location. If the screw cross threads then I tap it from the other direction to correct. If that doesn't work I remove and upsize. That's another reason I quit using the #10-32's too easy to cross thread and too easy to put in all katywhampous.

Mark

Oh, and you can step on my toes anytime.